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View Full Version : F01 reliability vs E65/66


II Kings 9:20
06-25-2012, 07:33 PM
I have been lurking on the F01 forum (may make a move on an '09 Xdrive when it hits low $30s) and notice how few problems there are over there. Lots of cosmetic and lighting discussion.

Is it just a matter of time until their warranties are up and they begin to have as many problems as the E65/66 or is BMW really building a better product just that quick?

Will all of the people with their 65/66 issues move into a reliable F01 in a couple of years or get burned as they start to suffer weep hole, valve seal issues, and transmission issues (or other equivalent problems)?

As the '06-'08 is improved over the '02-05, it seems that with the F01, BMW has really sorted out the reilbility learning from their mistakes. True or it's just too soon, give it time and they will begin to have multiple issues?

To look at the F01 forum compared to the E65/66 is as if the F01 is being built by Toyota (a very high compliment).

davethewheel
06-25-2012, 07:48 PM
Good questions...only time will tell, it looks as though Bmw has been riding on their reputation for the last 5 yrs if not more..this year they appear they raised the bar however.

Sent from my MB855 using Bimmer App

csmeance
06-25-2012, 08:28 PM
I have been lurking on the F01 forum (may make a move on an '09 Xdrive when it hits low $30s) and notice how few problems there are over there. Lots of cosmetic and lighting discussion.

Is it just a matter of time until their warranties are up and they begin to have as many problems as the E65/66 or is BMW really building a better product just that quick?

Will all of the people with their 65/66 issues move into a reliable F01 in a couple of years or get burned as they start to suffer weep hole, valve seal issues, and transmission issues (or other equivalent problems)?

As the '06-'08 is improved over the '02-05, it seems that with the F01, BMW has really sorted out the reilbility learning from their mistakes. True or it's just too soon, give it time and they will begin to have multiple issues?

To look at the F01 forum compared to the E65/66 is as if the F01 is being built by Toyota (a very high compliment).

The F01 uses the same transmission as our cars, hopefully with updated software. I'm predicting that the transmission issues we are having are going to start to pop up soon with the F01/02 as well.

Secondly the cooling system, with those turbo-chargers and the cooling system issues we are having, it's a matter of time till something of the sort happens.

Third, suspension problems; I'm sure that a car as heavy as the 7-series is going to damage suspension components (esp with those hard run-flat tires) and will require bushing changes and the control arms and such.

As far as modules, the new idrive system seems that it'll hold a lot better over the test of time along with the rest of the car's electrical system (until a bad battery comes into play)

Last but not least, the High Pressure Fuel pumps are another point which are going to fail...


EDIT: To sum it up, I think they will have MUCH less issues then we are having (besides the 09 folks) because of a lack of crappy systems (fragile L7 system for example) but we will still have a few issues in common...

II Kings 9:20
06-25-2012, 08:46 PM
The F01 uses the same transmission as our cars, hopefully with updated software. I'm predicting that the transmission issues we are having are going to start to pop up soon with the F01/02 as well.

Secondly the cooling system, with those turbo-chargers and the cooling system issues we are having, it's a matter of time till something of the sort happens.

Third, suspension problems; I'm sure that a car as heavy as the 7-series is going to damage suspension components (esp with those hard run-flat tires) and will require bushing changes and the control arms and such.

As far as modules, the new idrive system seems that it'll hold a lot better over the test of time along with the rest of the car's electrical system (until a bad battery comes into play)

Last but not least, the High Pressure Fuel pumps are another point which are going to fail...


EDIT: To sum it up, I think they will have MUCH less issues then we are having (besides the 09 folks) because of a lack of crappy systems (fragile L7 system for example) but we will still have a few issues in common...
You're not exactly inspiring a lot of confidence bro but we do need honest opinions like yours.

I'm starting to think about that '14 Impala :yikes: more with 10 airbags, adaptive cruise, collision mitigation with full braking, LDWS, BLIS etc. I'll have to see how my '08 E66 holds up trough the CPO.

csmeance
06-25-2012, 09:17 PM
You're not exactly inspiring a lot of confidence bro but we do need honest opinions like yours.

I'm starting to think about that '14 Impala :yikes: more with 10 airbags, adaptive cruise, collision mitigation with full braking, LDWS, BLIS etc. I'll have to see how my '08 E66 holds up trough the CPO.

I'm a bit brutally honest, but the nice thing is that if you have a good extended warranty, you should have no fears at all! That's why I love my E66 and others seem to think of it as a problem child. Yes it may be at the dealer a few times a year, but when it's not it is a BLAST to drive and brings joy that's well worth it.

A member here described the 7-Series perfectly "This car is like having a crack addicited Victoria's Secret Model as a girlfriend, the highs are higher than your imaginations, and the lows are low."

After the warranty is up on my 760, I'd seriously considering getting an F02 B7 or 760 once again!

Jose Jimenez
06-25-2012, 11:20 PM
I'm a bit brutally honest, but the nice thing is that if you have a good extended warranty, you should have no fears at all! That's why I love my E66 and others seem to think of it as a problem child. Yes it may be at the dealer a few times a year, but when it's not it is a BLAST to drive and brings joy that's well worth it.

A member here described the 7-Series perfectly "This car is like having a crack addicited Victoria's Secret Model as a girlfriend, the highs are higher than your imaginations, and the lows are low."

After the warranty is up on my 760, I'd seriously considering getting an F02 B7 or 760 once again!

Bravo! These are world class cars. They are sophisticated and represent the state of the art. And they are expensive to maintain. Why is that a surprise?

beamlord
06-26-2012, 01:19 AM
"...Will the world end , will the sky fall?...Amagawd!...."

Buddy...you will never be happy with a BMW.

Especially if you're planning to get another one of those cheap blind buys with suspension problems (your hint at a 09 f01 in low 30ies - seriously?! - is already suggesting that) and then write about how awful the BMW ride quality is. Please, do us all a favor...get that Impala, or Hyundai or something, for God's sake.

MOPAULY
06-26-2012, 04:02 AM
CS summed it up, don't forget the oil pump whining issue either. I like the F01 but not enough to buy one, HOWEVER I'll be in line for a CPO 2014 with all of its updates, I'm really liking that car allot.

As mentioned these cars will always have issues, you've got to decide what is tolerable to you; being that I have a garage, lift, and all tools at home to service the car, I can live with its idiosyncrasies, which to date honestly have not been terrible. Regardless of price, you've got to accept the car for what it is and not try to convince yourself it's something it's not.

As inferred though, maybe an Equus or something along those lines is more your cup of tea; for me I'll stick with BMW, as despite it's issues nothing else I've driven can simultaneously satisfy so many different desires.

hd750Li
06-26-2012, 05:00 AM
Don't go with 09 - more prone to problems because it was the first of the F-series. At least 2010 or 2011 if possible. My wife drives a 2011 F02 for almost 2 years now. It was built in 10/2010. I switched the RFT to a normal Continental set immediately right off the bat. We have had zero problem since.

collins912
06-26-2012, 05:03 AM
I'm a bit brutally honest, but the nice thing is that if you have a good extended warranty, you should have no fears at all! That's why I love my E66 and others seem to think of it as a problem child. Yes it may be at the dealer a few times a year, but when it's not it is a BLAST to drive and brings joy that's well worth it.

A member here described the 7-Series perfectly "This car is like having a crack addicited Victoria's Secret Model as a girlfriend, the highs are higher than your imaginations, and the lows are low."

After the warranty is up on my 760, I'd seriously considering getting an F02 B7 or 760 once again!

Well said my brother!

beamlord
06-26-2012, 05:18 AM
Don't go with 09 - more prone to problems because it was the first of the F-series. At least 2010 or 2011 if possible. My wife drives a 2011 F02 for almost 2 years now. It was built in 10/2010. I switched the RFT to a normal Continental set immediately right off the bat. We have had zero problem since.

There has been nothing changed in the production/materials of the f01 since production start in 2008 up to now. Only user interface changes in adding the combox in late 2010.

II Kings 9:20
06-26-2012, 05:30 AM
"...Will the world end , will the sky fall?...Amagawd!...."

Buddy...you will never be happy with a BMW.

Especially if you're planning to get another one of those cheap blind buys with suspension problems (your hint at a 09 f01 in low 30ies - seriously?! - is already suggesting that) and then write about how awful the BMW ride quality is. Please, do us all a favor...get that Impala, or Hyundai or something, for God's sake.

Actually I have been very happy with the other 3 BMWs I have owned which were trouble free. You may very well be correct though re: the 7 although presently I am thrilled with it.

As you may recall, my cheap blind buy was not a salvage buy but rather a CPO and while the price at $39K was very good, it was not far below market. My issues have actually been minor (though vexing) and all related to a very poor CPO process. Admittedly buying blind was ballsy (or stupid if you like) but some of the CPO failures I would have missed. The best example is the subframe bushings that were proclaimed by the local dealer as "bad". I'll not reiterate all the the detalis in my thread on the solution that I discovered posted elsewhere.

Suffice it to say, I found an invoice where the selling dealer slapped on '06 wheels with '05 tires that were bad but had good tread. New tires have the car riding like a dream. In that thread, I manned up and stated that I was wrong to criticize the car for this. I would never have discovered this even if I had test driven the car-who checks tire dates when buiying a used car? I know about checking tire manufacture dates when buying so called "new" tires and now I know to check when buying a used car.

Re the F01 in the mid 30s- I stated "when" not to imply at the present time. Looking at the very steep depreciation curve of the 7, there is no reason to belive that the F01 will be any different and should price in the mid $30s about this time in 2014 just when my CPO expires.

Obviously I like these cars as has been well stated by csm and others like a Victorias Secret model, I am just not going to quietly accept that a 7, because it is highly sophisticated (a nice way of saying tempramental) should be any less reliable than a 5 series. It appears that BMW is doing a better job with the F01 but time will tell.

II Kings 9:20
06-26-2012, 05:42 AM
CS summed it up, don't forget the oil pump whining issue either. I like the F01 but not enough to buy one, HOWEVER I'll be in line for a CPO 2014 with all of its updates, I'm really liking that car allot.

As mentioned these cars will always have issues, you've got to decide what is tolerable to you; being that I have a garage, lift, and all tools at home to service the car, I can live with its idiosyncrasies, which to date honestly have not been terrible. Regardless of price, you've got to accept the car for what it is and not try to convince yourself it's something it's not.

As inferred though, maybe an Equus or something along those lines is more your cup of tea; for me I'll stick with BMW, as despite it's issues nothing else I've driven can simultaneously satisfy so many different desires.

Thanks MOP, I did forget about the oil pump issue. Very good advice. I do have a wandering eye and would consider a Hyundai in 2 years when my CPO is up but for some reason I keep coming back to the Germans (I have owned 15 German cars-more than any other nation).
Who knows, I may wind up on the F01 boards in 2014 and continue to be a thorn in Beamlord's hind end :rofl:

1bad540
06-26-2012, 06:07 AM
I think they have even more problems, but alot of the people are older that dont post on forums. Plus you dont have the same problems being posted up time and time again, from people buying 100k+ mile 02's.

beamlord
06-26-2012, 06:28 AM
Thanks MOP, I did forget about the oil pump issue. Very good advice. I do have a wandering eye and would consider a Hyundai in 2 years when my CPO is up but for some reason I keep coming back to the Germans (I have owned 15 German cars-more than any other nation).
Who knows, I may wind up on the F01 boards in 2014 and continue to be a thorn in Beamlord's hind end :rofl:

I know this is harsh but I'll say it just once: we're a group of BMW enthusiasts. *ENTHUSIASTS*.
Our cars, just like any other cars in the world, have some problems from time to time, and we're here to discuss how to solve them and continue to enjoy the life.
Your subtle and not-so-subtle BMW bashing ("like made by Toyota") is merely annoying.
Either you have a BMW and trying to solve the issues you have with it, or get rid of it. Bashing it for being unreliable is neither constructive, nor makes your BMW better.


On another note: the majority of the f01 gang are people having a car for the warranty period (mostly leased) and just driving it for the lease period before it even hits 60k. They do not experience any problems. Nor do they care about them, if any problems arise. They can afford a new or almost new car that's taken care of by the warranty.

The whole "fun" will start in a couple of years when a lot more people will be able to afford those cars when they're out of current leases (or car rental buybacks, ugh) and cost in the 30ies. These will be the cars that have been basically used up without caring much about preservation, knowing that warranty repairs anything that happens. Obviously, these cars will probably have a few problems which will eventually fill the f01 forums then. Just like Kings mentioned - but he will be one of many : D

II Kings 9:20
06-26-2012, 06:48 AM
I'lll take that criticism beamlord and you are right, some of my BMW bashing has been unfair (call it frustration on my part). As an auto enthusiast of all types, it is indeed better to be more constructive and add to the fund of knowledge and only be critical when necessary. I'll admit that some of my criticism has been un necessary- point taken.

Now on to other matters: Here is what Edmunds has to say which is why the 7 draws so many people to it. "Since its introduction for the 1978 model year, the BMW 7 Series luxury sedan has remained true to its original character. It's the BMW flagship, and this full-size, rear-wheel-drive sedan has always represented the pinnacle of technology and luxury accoutrements in the German automaker's lineup. As such, it's an obvious choice for wealthy car buyers seeking a spacious and elegant sedan with a high level of curbside prestige.

There's a fair amount of competition even in this elite vehicle class, but the 7 Series sedan's athletic handling dynamics have long set it apart, starting with the early 733s and carrying through to the five present-day 7 Series models. While other manufacturers have been content to build high-end sedans with soft, serene rides, BMW engineers its 7s to engage their drivers on an emotional level. There are a few recent contenders that have gone after this emotional engagement, but the BMW 7 Series remains a prime luxury sedan for people who like to drive".

II Kings 9:20
06-26-2012, 07:07 AM
I think they have even more problems, but alot of the people are older that dont post on forums. Plus you dont have the same problems being posted up time and time again, from people buying 100k+ mile 02's.

Seriously, more problems? You have a point though, any car under warranty will have few posts re: problems since they are simply taken to the dealer to be fixed. People like us post problems so we can figure out how to fix them without a warranty. I am under the CPO which is helpful only in the areas covered by the CPO- the L7 amp as an example is not covered and thankfully mine works great.

1bad540
06-26-2012, 07:40 AM
Ive had 2 e65's in a row both had orig warrty when i bought thema nd then went to cpo, I never posted much about the problems because i didnt care, and they were covered under warrty with little fuss. My car just broke 40k miles and ive been "looking" into swapping to a new body 750. I think I will most likely go with a 2010 or newer 750 msport. In alpine white!!:thumbup: I would also contemplate an 09 sport but am a bit cautious on the 1st yr.

beamlord
06-26-2012, 07:40 AM
I'lll take that criticism beamlord and you are right, some of my BMW bashing has been unfair (call it frustration on my part). As an auto enthusiast of all types, it is indeed better to be more constructive and add to the fund of knowledge and only be critical when necessary. I'll admit that some of my criticism has been un necessary- point taken.

Now on to other matters: Here is what Edmunds has to say which is why the 7 draws so many people to it. "Since its introduction for the 1978 model year, the BMW 7 Series luxury sedan has remained true to its original character. It's the BMW flagship, and this full-size, rear-wheel-drive sedan has always represented the pinnacle of technology and luxury accoutrements in the German automaker's lineup. As such, it's an obvious choice for wealthy car buyers seeking a spacious and elegant sedan with a high level of curbside prestige.

There's a fair amount of competition even in this elite vehicle class, but the 7 Series sedan's athletic handling dynamics have long set it apart, starting with the early 733s and carrying through to the five present-day 7 Series models. While other manufacturers have been content to build high-end sedans with soft, serene rides, BMW engineers its 7s to engage their drivers on an emotional level. There are a few recent contenders that have gone after this emotional engagement, but the BMW 7 Series remains a prime luxury sedan for people who like to drive".

Allright, peace bro - I think we're on the same page now :thumbup:

alpinaman24
06-26-2012, 08:29 AM
"...Will the world end , will the sky fall?...Amagawd!...."

Buddy...you will never be happy with a BMW.

Especially if you're planning to get another one of those cheap blind buys with suspension problems (your hint at a 09 f01 in low 30ies - seriously?! - is already suggesting that) and then write about how awful the BMW ride quality is. Please, do us all a favor...get that Impala, or Hyundai or something, for God's sake.


hahahaha wow well said .. im gna have a great day at work because of reading this !! thank you thank you thank you

on the other hand in the beginning i was hating the f01 i was saying things like "lexus ls rear end with a 5 siries front except with a bigger chest lol " its starting to grow on me ..

but when i look at my daily 91 735 kinda looks like that lol from the back that is .. :dunno:

Rookie2008
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
I think they have even more problems, but alot of the people are older that dont post on forums. Plus you dont have the same problems being posted up time and time again, from people buying 100k+ mile 02's.

+1 :thumbup:

II Kings 9:20
07-04-2012, 02:47 PM
Time will tell if this is going to come to fruition as some of you have stated when the F01 begins to go out of warranty. It remains to be seen if more posts like this start showing up, stay tuned. Here (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630772)

DFEL750I
07-04-2012, 04:16 PM
All things equal a turbo charged car will have more issues. I think ultimately the F01 will have more mechanical issues that the E65. In the end there is no replacement for displacement and the smaller turbo charged engines putting out more horsepower will be more problematic than the E65 naturally aspirated engine.

Just a guess based on what I have seen with turbo charge cars. There is just more heat, more stress on the engine etc with a turbo charged car. Now I know these engines are engineered to withstand the turbos but I have just seen alot of problems with turbo charged cars

alpinaman24
07-05-2012, 08:55 AM
All things equal a turbo charged car will have more issues. I think ultimately the F01 will have more mechanical issues that the E65. In the end there is no replacement for displacement and the smaller turbo charged engines putting out more horsepower will be more problematic than the E65 naturally aspirated engine.

Just a guess based on what I have seen with turbo charge cars. There is just more heat, more stress on the engine etc with a turbo charged car. Now I know these engines are engineered to withstand the turbos but I have just seen alot of problems with turbo charged cars

+1 ie vw ;)