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View Full Version : Oil changes!!! 08 635xi


MrKB2U
07-06-2012, 11:31 AM
So does it matter...dealership oil change or Other? Dealer says about $235 - 15k miles...Others...probably around $35-$45 bucks but it's usually every 3k-5k miles....

I'm a first time owner...

Opps..535...Not 635

HPIA4v2
07-06-2012, 11:38 AM
So does it matter...dealership oil change or Other? Dealer says about $235 - 15k miles...Others...probably around $35-$45 bucks but it's usually every 3k-5k miles....

I'm a first time owner...

Opps..535...Not 635
if the $45 guy uses synthetic oil and good filter, go for it.

FYI, it takes 6-quart of oil even Mobil-1 5-30W (not the best ofr BMW car) at Costco warehouse costs around $36 (with $10 coupon last month, that'll be $26 before tax), then $10 filter so $45 is rather low for oil change.

MrKB2U
07-06-2012, 11:41 AM
Good points. I "think" they use fully synthetic oil. Dont quote me. Does $110 sounds better..?

TRS550
07-06-2012, 12:17 PM
No matter what it costs, don"t wait 15K to change it.

5-7K is just fine.

MrKB2U
07-06-2012, 12:21 PM
Thanks. Why would the dealer say that. Are they trying to get more money out of me? I'm assuming waiting that long will cause some issues for me down the line..

burnie35
07-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Check with another dealer ... my dealer in Orlando charges $89.00 for an oil change.

MrKB2U
07-06-2012, 12:44 PM
Wow...$89!! Is it paid upon year of car?? My dad pays around $90 too, he has an 03 330...

Mac Hadley
07-06-2012, 01:45 PM
Many dealers run monthly specials for 79.95...check a couple of dealers websites in your area..

MrKB2U
07-06-2012, 02:35 PM
Yeah I checked again. It's like $172 for the oil change, $65 for them to clear the light / scope. If I get in before the signal comes on just $172. They also said every 15k miles. The "other" place said $125 every 7,000 - 7,500 miles. For a newbie your forced to either side with the dealer or another reputable place who is cheaper. To me 15k miles is a long time, but why would they even suggest that it will cause problems in the long run....?

550iMarine
07-06-2012, 04:08 PM
Why not change it yourself. It's very easy to do. Also, it's easy to reset the oil change light as well. Just search the forum.

phlfly
07-06-2012, 04:47 PM
Buy oil and filter go any quick lube and ask to replace if you don't want to DIY. Don't use more 8000 miles on one change. Good oils: Castrol 0W-30, Mobil 0W-30, Mobil 5W-30, Pennzoil 5W-30 (it's very good). Castrol 0W-30 is only one from that list BMW LL01. I would not recommended to use Mobil 0W-40 (it's also BMW LL01) it's too "heavy", don't get me wrong, it's a good oil, but you don't need this oil unless you are track a car a lot. Of course oil should full synthetic.

bimmerfan52
07-06-2012, 04:47 PM
Yeah I checked again. It's like $172 for the oil change, $65 for them to clear the light / scope. If I get in before the signal comes on just $172. They also said every 15k miles. The "other" place said $125 every 7,000 - 7,500 miles. For a newbie your forced to either side with the dealer or another reputable place who is cheaper. To me 15k miles is a long time, but why would they even suggest that it will cause problems in the long run....?

15K mile drain intervals is the BMW corporate mantra. Ties back to their attempting to meet a favorable TCO by paying for maintenance during the warranty period. They save a tremendous amount of money by changing less often. They can't get away with telling you 15K when they are paying for it and then 7K when you are paying for it. Ignore their advise. They have an ax to grind.

If you are really serious about oil and your engine then measure your hours of operation and operating conditions and try to change before 200-300 hours of operation. However, if you want to keep it simple, for most drivers 6K-7K between drains will work fine. If you lean towards being more conservative and want to drive the car for a good while then every 5K miles is a little better.

Part of shorter drain intervals is getting contaminants out of the oil (especially true for older engines), but the real key is to have 30-40% or more of the original additives left in the oil when you drain it. The magic of modern engineered oils is the additives, and once the additives are gone the oil changes for the bad and won't protect your engine.

BMW LL-01 approved oils are the best to use, but really any name brand full synthetic changed every 5-6K miles will do a great job.

Follow the other posters recommendation and look for oil change specials at dealers. An $89 oil change special at a dealer includes resetting the oil change reminder in the iDrive. Alternately, buy your own oil and filter and take it to a trusted mechanic.

If you are at all mechanically inclined and have the time, you may want to consider starting to do your own oil changes. Maybe have a friend walk you through it the first time. Lots of DIYs on this site for step-by-step oil changes. Much to be said for knowing it is done right and being able to get under the car and see what else may be going on with your engine.

Best of luck.

bimmerfan52
07-06-2012, 04:56 PM
Buy oil and filter go any quick lube and ask to replace if you don't want to DIY. Don't use more 8000 miles on one change. Good oils: Castrol 0W-30, Mobil 0W-30, Mobil 5W-30, Pennzoil 5W-30 (it's very good). Castrol 0W-30 is only one from that list BMW LL01. I would not recommended to use Mobil 0W-40 (it's also BMW LL01) it's too "heavy", don't get me wrong, it's a good oil, but you don't need this oil unless you are track a car a lot. Of course oil should full synthetic.

Why is Mobil 1 0W-40 "too heavy"?

phlfly
07-06-2012, 06:00 PM
HTHS (viscosity at 150 C) is 3.8 at least, where BMW 5W-30 is only 3.3 and after 1000 miles drop to 3.2 according boboilguy...com. I read a lot there, so they did a lot testing after different miles in service.
So Castrol 0W-30 HTHS is about 3.5, Mobil 5W-30 is about 3.1, Mobil 0W-30 is 3.0 ( at least, it can more .1 to .2 ). Well let's back to "too heavy" - the oil will not reach to operating temp at normal driving ( I would use this oil only for track or autocross), because too thick, so it will not have a sufficient flow, that is leading to engine higher temp. This oil could be use on high mileage cars, if you have oil consumption problem.
One thing I understood, if owner is changing oil every 5000 - 7000 miles then there is no reason to use oils with the high HTHS (3.5 and more), it's designed to keep viscosity for long time (HTHS at least 3.0), like BMW is recommended to change oil every 15,000 miles.

bimmerfan52
07-07-2012, 03:43 PM
HTHS (viscosity at 150 C) is 3.8 at least, where BMW 5W-30 is only 3.3 and after 1000 miles drop to 3.2 according boboilguy...com. I read a lot there, so they did a lot testing after different miles in service.
So Castrol 0W-30 HTHS is about 3.5, Mobil 5W-30 is about 3.1, Mobil 0W-30 is 3.0 ( at least, it can more .1 to .2 ). Well let's back to "too heavy" - the oil will not reach to operating temp at normal driving ( I would use this oil only for track or autocross), because too thick, so it will not have a sufficient flow, that is leading to engine higher temp. This oil could be use on high mileage cars, if you have oil consumption problem.
One thing I understood, if owner is changing oil every 5000 - 7000 miles then there is no reason to use oils with the high HTHS (3.5 and more), it's designed to keep viscosity for long time (HTHS at least 3.0), like BMW is recommended to change oil every 15,000 miles.

Thanks for your response.

You say “the oil will not reach to operating temp at normal driving”, and then later in the same sentence you say basically the opposite - “because too thick, so it will not have sufficient flow, that is leading to engine higher temp”.

I’m also curious as to why do you bring up HTHS, which is measured at 150C, if your contention is that the 40 grade oil never reaches operating temperature?

Bob the oil Guy
You mentioned Bob's website (I am guessing you’re referencing Chapter 8 of his Oil University).

Bob's quote:
The oil just never got that hot to require a 50 grade oil. Short trips means that the oil temperature never gets up to the normal operating range. It was too thick on short trips and too thick when it did get up to temperature. The lower temperatures he saw with the thinner oil occurred because of reduced friction and internal drag and higher oil flow.

Bob said “Short trips mean that the oil temperature never gets up to normal operating range” This is true for any oil of any grade. A very short drive, especially coupled with a low ambient temperature, may prevent an engine from ever reaching normal operating temperature before the engine is turned off, but reaching normal operating temperature is in no way inhibited by the grade of oil.

Bob said “too thick on short trips and too thick when it did get up to temperature”. He did not say it never reached 100C. The guy was using a 50 grade oil, and it was simply too thick for the job at any temperature whether before reaching operating temperature or after. In normal driving an engine reaches a normal operating coolant and oil temperature of 100C (212F) after a short period. A higher viscosity oil does not take longer to reach this operating temperature, it will simply have a high viscosity once the final operating temperature is reached. In fact a substantially higher viscosity oil (50 grade or 60 grade) usually reaches normal operating temperature faster than say a 20 or 30 grade oil because of much higher shear forces in bearings and rings and will typically run up to 20C hotter than 100C during normal operation due to high shear (friction).

Bob switched the guy from a 15W-50 oil to a 5W-20 grade oil. Yes, there will be a huge difference between those two grades in internal drag in the engine due to the reduced viscosity, which will definitely be felt as a more “free revving” engine with less drag and better gas mileage. And when comparing a 20 grade to 50 grade, the 20 grade oil will run cooler due to less shear. And moving from a 15W to a 5W will mean significantly less engine wear during cold temp starting.


Comparing Mobil 1 0W-40 to Castrol 5W-30

SAE standard oil grades are as follows:
30 Grade Oil - 9.3 to 12.5 cSt (Low-Shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C)
40 Grade Oil - 12.5 to 16.3 cSt (Low-Shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C)
Interesting how wide the ranges are (34% for 30 grade and 30% for 40 grade). Also note - an oil that measures 12.5 cSt @ 100C can be called either a 30 grade or 40 grade oil.

According to the spec sheet for Castrol 5W-30 (BMW private label) the low-shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C is 12.2 cSt - almost at the high end of the 30 grade range.

According to the spec sheets for Mobil 1 0W-40 the low-shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C is 13.5 cSt - towards the low end of the 40 grade range. This is why Mobil 1 0W-40 is actually referred to in the oil industry as a “light 40”.

The small difference in viscosity between Castrol @ 12.2 and Mobil 1 @ 13.5 will not be perceptible during engine warming or after normal operating temperature is reached. You will not be able to feel any difference in “engine drag” due to a difference in viscosity. If someone were to claim they “felt” a difference after changing from the Castrol to the Mobil 1, I would claim it is a placebo effect, and would challenge them with a blind oil change to name the oil. Highly unlikely they could.

For normal cars, with 90% of the wear happening during starting, I would never use higher than a 5W grade oil, and always strive to use a 0W oil, even in Phoenix where we very rarely see winter temperatures below 35F, and mostly over 45F during the winter nights. Both the Castrol 5W-30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 oils excel in cold flow.


HTHS Specifications for Oil

One would not expect an owner of a normally aspirated 8 cylinder BMW 4.4L engaged in normal driving to be concerned with 150C temperatures or huge crushing forces at journal bearings.

However, were a BMW owner to go on a sustained run of say 120mph for say 30 minutes through the mountains with up to 6 degree grades at say an ambient temperature of 110F, the whole picture would change.
Personally, I would never engage in such lawless behavior, on say a run from Phoenix to Las Vegas in my 545i. :rofl:
But, were one inclined to do so, the HTHS specification of an oil would become more important, and one would not expect to have to change oil grades to go on such a short trip.

For “normal driving” let’s say we are talking about a 1.8L turbo charged engine that runs at high boost pressure and employs piston squirters. This is a rough environment for any oil. And if you consider a run at 70-80mph in the Poconos Mountains with four passengers and luggage on a 95F day, you are well on the way to pushing a lower grade oil to such low viscosity that hydrodynamic film lubrication changes to boundary lubrication. Once boundary lubrication results, oil base stock quality, add pack, hours of operation, average historical temperature during operation and level of contamination will all determine how severe the bearing wear will be. The oil’s HTHS viscosity rating then is important.

Yes, as you mentioned, viscosity indexes (and HTHS viscosities) are reduced over operating time, but oils made from full synthetic PAO base stock are less prone to VI loss because they require less VI improvers in the add pack and have less to lose, so viscosities tend to stay higher.

Mobil 1 0W-40 claims a high-shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 150C of 3.8cP, which exceeds the minimum level of 3.5cP to be rated a 0W-40 grade oil, and actually exceeds the 3.7cP minimum level to be rated a 25W-40 grade oil.

That coupled with its excellent pour point, free flow at starting temperatures and excellent add pack (additive package) make Mobil 1 0W-40 a great all around oil.

Is it the “best oil” for everyone? Certainly not. Is it important to search for and find the “best oil”? NO!

Although I am an engineer and enjoy “nitpicking” the details of oil I am also a realist. I firmly believe that any name brand full synthetic base stock motor oil used with drain intervals of 5,000 miles or 250-300 hours of operation or 1 year, whichever comes first, will result in a clean engine with years of dependable service for most users.

For owners of “non-average” performance cars like BMWs, Porsches, MBs, Audis, Ferraris, etc. that have high-performance (and very expensive) engines that are subject to greater internal forces and stress and are driven in a “spirited fashion”, “nitpicking” oil is not only fun, but can arguably be critical to the pocketbook.

I enjoyed talking with you. You obviously know a lot about oil already.
Hopefully we passed along some useful info to newbies along the way. We were all newbies at birth.

Here’s to good nitpicking. :beerchug:

tommyv
07-07-2012, 05:47 PM
well, I sure have been schooled. interesting information - thanks for posting.

phlfly
07-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Thanks for your response.



SAE standard oil grades are as follows:
30 Grade Oil - 9.3 to 12.5 cSt (Low-Shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C)
40 Grade Oil - 12.5 to 16.3 cSt (Low-Shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C)
Interesting how wide the ranges are (34% for 30 grade and 30% for 40 grade). Also note - an oil that measures 12.5 cSt @ 100C can be called either a 30 grade or 40 grade oil.

According to the spec sheet for Castrol 5W-30 (BMW private label) the low-shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C is 12.2 cSt - almost at the high end of the 30 grade range.

According to the spec sheets for Mobil 1 0W-40 the low-shear-rate kinematic viscosity at 100C is 13.5 cSt - towards the low end of the 40 grade range. This is why Mobil 1 0W-40 is actually referred to in the oil industry as a “light 40”.

The small difference in viscosity between Castrol @ 12.2 and Mobil 1 @ 13.5 will not be perceptible during engine warming or after normal operating temperature is reached. You will not be able to feel any difference in “engine drag” due to a difference in viscosity. If someone were to claim they “felt” a difference after changing from the Castrol to the Mobil 1, I would claim it is a placebo effect, and would challenge them with a blind oil change to name the oil. Highly unlikely they could.

For normal cars, with 90% of the wear happening during starting, I would never use higher than a 5W grade oil, and always strive to use a 0W oil, even in Phoenix where we very rarely see winter temperatures below 35F, and mostly over 45F during the winter nights. Both the Castrol 5W-30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 oils excel in cold flow.


. :beerchug:
I would not say that Mobil 0W-40 is on light side of xW-30 , I would say Castrol 0W-30 on heavy side on xW-30 and almost as thick as xW-40 oils.
I did research and below #'s for viscosity @100C, so as you see 0W-30 about 10

Castrol Edge with SPT
Castrol 0w-30 viscosity @100C 12.21 BMW LL01
Castrol 5w-30 viscosity @100C 10.70
Castrol 5W-40 viscosity @100C 13.9 BMW LL01
Castrol 5w-20 viscosity @100C 8.88
Castrol 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.65

Castrol Titanium:
Castrol 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.6
Castrol 5W-20 viscosity @100C 9.1
Castrol 5W-30 viscosity @100C 9.8

British Castrol
All Castrol 5W-30 viscosity @100C 11.9 to 12.0 LL01 or not LL01
But BMW 0W-30 viscosity @100C 12.3
It's very strange when BMW 0W-30 is viscosity then 5W-30, even 5W-30 is LL01 as well.

Mobil
Mobil 5W-30 viscosity @100C 11.0
Mobil 5W-30 viscosity @100C 12.1 BMW LL04
Mobil 0W-30 viscosity @100C 10.9
Mobil 0W-40 viscosity @100C 13.5 LL01
Mobil 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.7
Mobil 5W-20 viscosity @100C 8.9


Read this guy
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

bimmerfan52
07-08-2012, 12:36 AM
I would not say that Mobil 0W-40 is on light side of xW-30 , I would say Castrol 0W-30 on heavy side on xW-30 and almost as thick as xW-40 oils.
I did research and below #'s for viscosity @100C, so as you see 0W-30 about 10

Castrol Edge with SPT
Castrol 0w-30 viscosity @100C 12.21 BMW LL01
Castrol 5w-30 viscosity @100C 10.70
Castrol 5W-40 viscosity @100C 13.9 BMW LL01
Castrol 5w-20 viscosity @100C 8.88
Castrol 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.65

Castrol Titanium:
Castrol 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.6
Castrol 5W-20 viscosity @100C 9.1
Castrol 5W-30 viscosity @100C 9.8

British Castrol
All Castrol 5W-30 viscosity @100C 11.9 to 12.0 LL01 or not LL01
But BMW 0W-30 viscosity @100C 12.3
It's very strange when BMW 0W-30 is viscosity then 5W-30, even 5W-30 is LL01 as well.

Mobil
Mobil 5W-30 viscosity @100C 11.0
Mobil 5W-30 viscosity @100C 12.1 BMW LL04
Mobil 0W-30 viscosity @100C 10.9
Mobil 0W-40 viscosity @100C 13.5 LL01
Mobil 0W-20 viscosity @100C 8.7
Mobil 5W-20 viscosity @100C 8.9


Read this guy
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

You said "I would not say Mobil 1 0W-40 is on the lighter side of XXW-30 oils"?
Yes, I agree it is not a 30 grade oil. Who said it was? I said it was a "light 40".

You said " I would say Castrol 0W-30 on heavy side on xW-30 and almost as thick as xW-40 oils". I agree. That is why I said the Castrol and Mobil 1 oils are very similar in characteristics.

You said "Read this guy".
I have. It is basically the Bob-the-oil-Guy Oil University pasted into a Ferrari forum website.

I maintain that the two oils are similar, and both would do a fine job protecting a BMW engine when used properly.

phlfly
07-08-2012, 08:01 AM
I use now Castrol 0W-30 and tell you compare to BMW 5W-30 it made car little sluggish at same gas pedal feel. Well some people is thinking I'm crazy well I used Mobil 0W-40 on my E46 ( I sold it 2 years ago) then switch back BMW oil and it's big difference in the terms acceleration. And it could be explain as BMW oil HTHS is about 3.2 to 3.3 and Castrol 0W-30 at least HTHS 3.5 and Mobil 0W-40 is at least HTHS 3.8. This is same feeling my friend had since he went with all three oils around.
So next time I will try to use Pennzoil 5W-30 or Mobil either 0W-30 or 5W-30 and I will report back.

bimmerfan52
07-08-2012, 01:51 PM
well, I sure have been schooled. interesting information - thanks for posting.

Thanks.
The 545i is a monster to drive and well worth taking care of.

borderchris
07-08-2012, 05:08 PM
I use now Castrol 0W-30 and tell you compare to BMW 5W-30 it made car little sluggish at same gas pedal feel. Well some people is thinking I'm crazy well I used Mobil 0W-40 on my E46 ( I sold it 2 years ago) then switch back BMW oil and it's big difference in the terms acceleration. And it could be explain as BMW oil HTHS is about 3.2 to 3.3 and Castrol 0W-30 at least HTHS 3.5 and Mobil 0W-40 is at least HTHS 3.8. This is same feeling my friend had since he went with all three oils around.
So next time I will try to use Pennzoil 5W-30 or Mobil either 0W-30 or 5W-30 and I will report back.

:rofl:

It's not some people, Fly- It's everybody. C'mon, bro- Honestly? You really think that your seat-of-the-pants feel varies based on whether you use 0W30 or 0W40? Or BMW 5W30? Or Crazy Hassim's Terror-Grade 10W40?

Really? I mean... really?

phlfly
07-08-2012, 05:21 PM
Yes it's really. The car didn't accelerated on Mobil 0w-40 and Castrol 0W-30 as on BMW 5W-30, because Castrol and Mobil has higher HTHS. I had E46 325 and E60 550, and it's same result. I had M3, but never use anything then BMW Castrol 10W-60

bimmerfan52
07-08-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes it's really. The car didn't accelerated on Mobil 0w-40 and Castrol 0W-30 as on BMW 5W-30, because Castrol and Mobil has higher HTHS. I had E46 325 and E60 550, and it's same result. I had M3, but never use anything then BMW Castrol 10W-60

Now I am really flummoxed!

Dude, you complain about using M1 0W40 because you think it makes your car feel sluggish with a HTHS of 3.8cP, and then say you happily used Castrol 10W60 with a HTHS of 5.4cP in your M3 !!!

60 Grade oil is like friggin' molasses !

And why do you think BMW recommended 10W60 for the M3? Good cold starting? Fuel economy?
No - because the 60 Grade can hold a hydrodynamic film better under extreme pressure on the journal and connecting rod bearings than a lower grade oil (READ HTHS). It won't shear down to a boundary film as easily as a lighter oil.

Do you really think the M3 engine's component design is that much different than the 550's??? What is the difference in horsepower? 50hp? 70hp? I don't know what year you had.

And do you drive the 550 like a granny, or do you drive it like you did the M3? I certainly would.
So even though you drive it the same way, you are willing to drop 3 oil grades so the 550 doesn't feel sluggish???

Makes no sense.