PDA

View Full Version : Nuts!! X1 Test Drive is a failure – my Golf TDI is bigger?!?! Really?!?


Teleskier
08-09-2012, 10:57 AM
This is from my perspective, but help me hash this out. I want to like this car, but…

So I was all excited to finally see the X1_xDrive_2.8i in person last night. I thought this was the closest available car that met my needs. I made peace with no manual, made peace with no diesel yet, made peace with the N20 4-cyl engine, made peace with the run-flat tires (which I know I’m going to hate trapped on a mountain trailhead miles from anywhere).

I was excited to see the perfect sized car. But now having seen it in person after such an enthusiastic wait - I’m despondent.

Test Drive: It drove much better with the N20 4-cyl than I ever expected. I felt the 328ix sedan drove best, but this was very close, miles ahead of the swaying X3. The engine sounded fine, and even had some of the throaty sport noises I thought would only come from the N55 6-cyl. Fast, crisp, very little body sway, I could be happpy. Grade: A

Looks: Variable. Depends on the angle, just like in all the pictures. From some angles it looks very small, with a thin body lacking height, with a longish protruding nose that the LCI silver trim under the door makes look even more stretched out – it can sometimes look like a hearse to me from certain angles. From other angles it looks bigger. From some others it looks great! There’s just this lingering awkwardness in its shape that I just can’t put my finger on. However I feel like the more I see it, the more it will grow on me. Grade: B

Utility/Cargo : Grade F – as in the Fatal Flaw! This is supposed to be an SUV, or at least a crossover for “sports active” people. This is supposed to a step up from - or at least equal to - my tiny VW Golf TDI.

In my Golf TDI I can stand 4 mountain bikes in back (front wheels off). Most of time, I just have my race bike in back, standing up not lying down, taking 1/4 the cargo space where the rest 3/4 is free for bags and vacation home groceries/laundry. Other times it’s two bikes, where 1/2 the space is free for bags. This is how I drive to Cape Cod, or drive to Vermont for mountain biking, etc.

At first I thought it had to be a trompe l'oeil that the rear floor looked so high compared to my TDI. So I took my bike out of my TDI, and tried to put it in the X1. You know – the X1 - the sports active vehicle that so many BMW promo shots show lots of guys putting mountain bikes in, their windsurfing boards in, etc.

Well my bike did not fit – not by a LONG shot.

The floor of the back cargo area is extremely HIGH! As if there are two sets and levels of spare tires underneath there – when there is not even one spare tire. In my Golf, the floor is very low – giving a good floor to ceiling clearance – AND there is a full-size spare under the floor to boot. How did BMW screw this up?

My Golf has a good five inches in floor to ceiling height greater than the X1!! I only had a string to measure both cars, I will try to bring a tape measure tonight.

Add to this that the X1 rear seat bottoms are forever fixed in the down position – you cannot flip them up to create a hole for the rear seat backs to fit into, so that the cargo floor is flat. The Golf does this. I assumed everyone did. The X1 only allows the rear seat backs to lazily sit on top of the fixed seat bottoms, creating a 30-45 degree angle and a big bump, so the cargo floor is not flat. This takes away even MORE floor-to-ceiling height on the front half of cargo space.

For years everything always “just fit” in the TDI – from bikes to trash barrels to desks (etc). I assumed it was worldwide standardization of sizing. Silly me.

None of these items will fit in the X1. It reduces the short-in-height rear cargo area to being not much better than a sedan’s rear trunk – something that can only take not-tall-at-all grocery bags. No bikes.

And for the real earth-shattering moment, I then found the same setup in the X3. Non-flat floor, seat backs simply sitting old-school on top of the seats, giving a very limited floor-to-ceiling height (only 1 inch more than X1 – so still no bike will fit).

If I’m going to have to take up the whole space “just” putting in my one bike sideways and not being able to take groceries and bags to the Cape with the bike… well, what good is this vehicle then?? I can have the same “no cargo space” deal with a sedan where likewise a bike laying sideways “takes out” the whole trunk and rear seats folded down. No difference.

I was devastated.

Am I off-base here or is BMW? None of those sport-active toys in their promo shots would actually fit in their car. And my GOLF – a lowly VW Golf – is a better vehicle for cargo than either the BMW X1 or X3??

How can this be? Shocked. I never saw this one coming.

the_fox
08-09-2012, 11:59 AM
I am curious why the cargo floor is so high as well. Could it be that underneath is where the battery is stored? Still, it's disappointing that the seats don't fold down flat... Thanks for the review!

Tony411LA
08-09-2012, 12:44 PM
The cargo capacity is somewhat disappointing, but don't rule the X1 out. You can always get a bike rack for either the top or the back of the X1. I looked back at several of the "activity" marketing images and not one actually shows any gear that you might want to carry INSIDE the vehicle. The gear is either on top of the X1, next to the X1 or about to be put into the X1, making it appear the item will fit in the X1. Your comment about the "Look" of the X1 is exactly how I feel. (I have not seen it in person yet). In some camera angles, it looks amazing and in others, the hood is too long. But I took the bold leap of faith and ordered one anyway. Like you, I think it will grow on me. I wasn't that excited about the look of the new X3, but now I really like it.

pix335i
08-09-2012, 01:51 PM
Here are some higher resolution pictures of the bike on the rack from the NY Auto Show. I do think the cargo space is on the small side but I think it can be very workable.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/gallery/BMW-X1-New-York-Auto-Show/medium/BMW-X1-New-York-Auto-Show-136.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/gallery/BMW-X1-New-York-Auto-Show/medium/BMW-X1-New-York-Auto-Show-143.jpg

vic
08-09-2012, 01:52 PM
Thanks for posting this info. Like you, I also feel that this is the vehicle that most closely meets my needs (despite many of the same caveats), but I haven't seen one in person yet. I'm headed to my dealer this weekend to check out the first X1 they received. Now I know I need to pay special attention to the usability of the cargo space.

I have to imagine that it drives a lot better than the VW though.

HotRodW
08-09-2012, 03:19 PM
Good info ... thanks for the post. I ordered a couple weeks ago and I am awaiting delivery myself. I made the dealer agree to make the final purchase dependent upon a test drive so I can see if I can live with compromises - most of which you already mentioned. For me, square footage is more important than cubes since I rarely stack cargo, but I do have work gear to carry all the time, and I need to make sure it all fits. I think the X1 will be OK for me. For bikes, however, I can see the problem. All the reviews have been consistent in pointing out that that the X1 is more of a hatch than a crossover, with a roof as low as some sedans.

Regarding the rear seats, I've done a lot of test driving lately, and I can't think of a single vehicle that has lift up seat bottoms. Some, like the RDX and Escape, have floors that are mostly flat, but the rear seats just collapse lower when folded.

It is interesting how much RWD affects packaging. My Forester is essentially the same size as the X1, yet the cargo capacity is twice as large. Plus it has a spare and under-floor storage. Doesn't seem possible.

3ismagic#
08-09-2012, 06:25 PM
The X1 is not meant to haul bikes it's meant to haul strollers and shopping bags.

I get the sense that the X1 is one of those cars for people who like the idea of having and "outdoorsy" lifestyle rather than those who have them.

Reedo302
08-09-2012, 11:10 PM
This video gives a good explanation, and I think it's right on the money about it being a wagon. From what I notice, the X1 is very close to the Audi Allroad, and I think that's the best way to think of it.
My main decision is between the X1 and the forthcoming N20 328i xDrive Touring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eX6Rq0yDno&feature=related

CanadianDriver
08-10-2012, 07:02 AM
OP: maybe this option would help alleviate your disappointment?.. http://www.collinacre.plus.com/BMW_X1_Bike_Rack.html

dandanio
08-10-2012, 12:03 PM
OP: An X1 is clearly not a car for you. Look elsewhere.

Teleskier
08-10-2012, 01:03 PM
Good discussion, some good points in here.

My first car was a GTI hatch, love at first sight, FUN FUN to drive.

Then moved up to 328i sedan. 328i was great car, except nothing fit inside. You just had the trunk area plus the rear seat back sitting angled on the rear seats.

During those sedan days, it killed me having my $15K race bike outside in the elements while I was cozy inside. If it rained at constant "get into every crevice" windswept 70+ mph at my bike, I'd have to repack the hubs with imported lithium grease, re-lube the chain, etc. In parking lots or overnight, I was terrified of theft. Etc.

I then moved back to Golf TDI. Everything fit again. Bike safe and pampered inside. Could take up to four bikes for me and my friends. In springtime I could take both my road and mountain bike on road trips and have room left for luggage.

So a bike rack idea doesn***8217;t cut it (for me). If I have to have that, then I might as well have a ***8216;proper***8217; sedan. Which to me, is the most sexy and correct shape for a car.

So I was contemplating a 3'er sedan, dreaming up ways to store the greasy bike somehow in back seat, when the X1 idea came out. I thought that was my hallelujah answer.

It still may be. I owe another trip back for take#2, perhaps this weekend.

For trip#1 - I had expectations that seemed to exceed what the X1 really is.

Now I have to go back with the mindset of ***8220;Alright, so it***8217;s not perfect, but HOW BAD is it really? Can I make do?***8221; Stay tuned. I might take some pics as well, avec et sans the bike.

bimmerized
08-10-2012, 01:59 PM
I am curious why the cargo floor is so high as well. Could it be that underneath is where the battery is stored? Still, it's disappointing that the seats don't fold down flat... Thanks for the review!

the floor is higher than the Golf for ground clearance.

The X1 may not have the largest cargo capacity or interior volume for its exterior size, but it also drives better than most , if not all, crossovers. It's all about compromises. There's never a perfect car for everyone. The X1 is no different; why expect it?

Has anyone compared the drive to the Mazda CX-5? The CX-5 is lighter and has much more cargo volume, for those looking for a spirited crossover with more cargo space.

dandanio
08-10-2012, 02:18 PM
Has anyone compared the drive to the Mazda CX-5? The CX-5 is lighter and has much more cargo volume, for those looking for a spirited crossover with more cargo space.
I test drove the CX-5 twice already and I am not convinced to the new 2L naturally aspirated engine. I liked, almost loved the interior, plastics, ergonomics, roominess. And I liked the new transmission. What I disliked, but only because I am biased, is the engine. It felt like 155hp is just not enough, but in all fairness, the car drove in a very civilized manner. Its silhouette resembled my X3 a lot, but it is a good thing. I liked the car and its price enough to recommend it to my parents. They should be getting it shortly.
As a sidenote: if this car is slightly turbo'ed, say to 200-240hp, that would be a thing to get for under $30k. But, for now, it is only the next best thing to an N55 X3. :thumbup:

bimmerized
08-10-2012, 02:37 PM
I test drove the CX-5 twice already and I am not convinced to the new 2L naturally aspirated engine. I liked, almost loved the interior, plastics, ergonomics, roominess. And I liked the new transmission. What I disliked, but only because I am biased, is the engine. It felt like 155hp is just not enough, but in all fairness, the car drove in a very civilized manner.

My thoughts exactly. I would have chose it over the X1 had it not been for the weak engine. It needs a turbo... The car represents a much better value than the X1 though. Similarly equipped the difference is $10K+. I'm betting the 28x handles better than the CX-5 AWD dispite it's weight disadvantage.

Teleskier
08-10-2012, 02:41 PM
It is PARTLY about design choices.

To be fair to the X1: the Golf is FWD, and the X1 is AWD. They need PART of that floor space for the rear transmission.

So the buyer has to ask: Do I want more rear cargo space and FWD, or limited space and AWD. I have not checked out the AWD Golf R yet. Now I'm curious to see how its rear floor compares.

However I have to admit to getting a real sucker-punch "You gotta be kidding me!" feeling when you lift up the pad of the much higher X1 floor, expecting to see two full-size tires in there, and instead - almost to razz you - they put 9 tiny one-inch-high match book holders there instead! It makes you want to turn around to the see the car designer behind a corner laughing at you for his lighthearted attempt at a little joke.

It does seem that they took much more space in back than they really needed to. And it’s not the battery, since it seemed that floor was sealed without access provided.

So…

Golf has 5-6" more cargo height PLUS a FULL size spare below the pad.

X1 has less space, no spare tire, but room for nine matchboxes.

Perhaps the European and Canadian X1 owners can help us here... I'd have NO idea what I'd ever store in that tiny thin space, why did BMW even bother?

Cigarettes, matches, and ???

HotRodW
08-10-2012, 02:42 PM
I test drove the CX-5 twice already and I am not convinced to the new 2L naturally aspirated engine. I liked, almost loved the interior, plastics, ergonomics, roominess. And I liked the new transmission. What I disliked, but only because I am biased, is the engine. It felt like 155hp is just not enough, but in all fairness, the car drove in a very civilized manner. Its silhouette resembled my X3 a lot, but it is a good thing. I liked the car and its price enough to recommend it to my parents. They should be getting it shortly.
As a sidenote: if this car is slightly turbo'ed, say to 200-240hp, that would be a thing to get for under $30k. But, for now, it is only the next best thing to an N55 X3. :thumbup:

The upcoming diesel powerplant should solve most of the CX-5's shortcomings. I seriously considered waiting for the diesel myself, but I miss having something more tossable and entertaining. The CX-5 handles really well for its size, but I expect the smaller X1 to blow it away. (Plus I'm tired of waiting for the non-existent "ideal" vehicle.) Now if Mazda offers the diesel with a manual transmission in Grand Touring trim, I may live to regret my decision. But I'm betting that won't happen.

petriej
08-10-2012, 03:28 PM
the floor is higher than the Golf for ground clearance.

The X1 may not have the largest cargo capacity or interior volume for its exterior size, but it also drives better than most , if not all, crossovers. It's all about compromises. There's never a perfect car for everyone. The X1 is no different; why expect it?

Has anyone compared the drive to the Mazda CX-5? The CX-5 is lighter and has much more cargo volume, for those looking for a spirited crossover with more cargo space.

I test drove the CX-5 and it is hilariously underpowered. I actually felt unsafe on a highway on-ramp, the thing can't even get out of its own way, much less a big rig.

Now if it had the Mazda 3Speed engine in it, it would be fine.

OP: Sorry to hear about the disappointment, but better you find out first hand than have a let down after you've already ordered it. Why the interest in a smaller crossover type if you have such precious cargo to haul?

Teleskier
08-10-2012, 04:26 PM
OP: Why the interest in a smaller crossover type if you have such precious cargo to haul?

If a GTI/Golf can do it - why can't these supposedly superior SAVs do it at twice the price?

I suppose it shows why the Golf was the best-selling car around the world for decades, and probably still is. Drives quite well (with true German spirit), great mileage, and everything fits.

I shouldn’t need an Escalade just to go for a bike ride in VT. Or to always have the bike with me in the car for whenever I have a spare 60mins to fit in a ride – whether from lunchtime at work or lobster day trip to Maine.

It’s not uncommon in springtime, as a way to handle the shoulder season "take whatever comes" weather, to have my 18ft self-built wooden sea kayak on top of the roof rack (THAT can get wet), and inside the car are the kayak paddle, road bike, mountain bike, telemark skis, alpine skis, and XC skis all in back - ready for whatever the given part of New England I happen to be in and its current weather has to offer, as it changes hour by hour.

If the Golf can do this, what I consider my minimum. I thought a specifically designed SAV could do it too.

I suppose I grew up with the European mindset that you don't need a massive vehicle just to haul stuff.

Friends still talk about the day I brought home 30-40 rhoddy plants in my Golf from a RI nursery that went out of business sending notice to our rhoddy club to come take all you want. That was a scene – leaves smooshed in every window – wish I took a picture – but once again everything fit.

It is/was always amazing what fits inside that car. It is/was a regular TARDIS.

Now it seems that I’d need an X5 to be able to do the same. What’s the upward migration path from the 'college car' GTI for the SAV-minded person??

I should have been too old to fall for the BMW marketing but I did. I felt the sport-active BMW promo pics from Europe with mountain bikes et al, and especially the choice of German techno Digitalism Zdarlight in the awesome X1 commercial in Europe which even showed ‘my’ X1 on my ‘Cape Cod’ ocean dunes splashing through the surf - it all but screamed my own name to me to the point where it could have been flashing my name on screen – the one car and mindset and culture match that simply screamed out – this is finally “the one!”

Sounds like a teenager, yes, but then it turns out that your rock star idle is not the guy you THOUGHT he was.

I do agree with others who pulled the trigger… I’m darned tired of waiting for the perfect car… as meanwhile my former perfect car is getting older by the minute… where 12 years and 200K miles is enough to have already asked from her.

Where do I hang my hat (aka haul my kayak and bikes and skis)?

petriej
08-10-2012, 04:33 PM
Actually the X3 has more interior space than the X5.

Why not get another Golf? They're not college kid cars.

ddavid1101
08-10-2012, 04:48 PM
I also really wanted this to be the "right" car. Flew up to Toronto a little over a month ago to take a look at it. Test drove it. Test drove it against 328i. Got the same feeling. About a month ago, the brought an X1 to the Dallas BMW and was able to sit in it, compare it for a good hour. Wife took the 328i for drive to compare ride since it's the same engine.

Trunk is tiny. It actually looked smaller and I think it is when rear seats are up compared to the old 3 touring. I also believe it's smaller than the new 328i trunk. Interior was not bad, but when you sit in both the new 328 and X1, it's a lot roomier in the new 3 series. Only difference is I dont hit my head coming out of X1(I'm 6'2).

I also looked at CX-5, love the shape, didnt like the materials inside. Waiting for new Santa Fe to come out(end of month) which is probably bigger than we need.

I'm still on the fence, waiting for both cars to hit the showroom. Will drive again and make a decision. Just not sure if I can live with the cargo space and the space in the back seat.

GLK Diesel is coming in the spring, so is the new 3 touring which will be bigger both in cargo and passenger space than the X1. Not sure if I can wait that long.

I dont mind the look, I mind the lack of space. It LOOKS bigger than Inifiniti EX35 but in reality Inifiniti beats it by the numbers.

Also, I was told the battery was in the back. I assume under the cargo area.

Teleskier
08-10-2012, 04:49 PM
Why not get another Golf? They're not college kid cars.

On one side of the equation:

Guy says it's a perfect SAV since everything fits
Guy takes out a new GTI and is shocked at how much raw FUN it STILL is


On the other side of the equation:

Other half keeps asking "When are you getting rid of that college car? It's just like your first one!"
Older and younger friends ask "When are you getting rid of the college car?" Some add the phrase "get that sh*t box out of my driveway" - the ones in Jaguars and Aston-Martins especially (of course they are just 'kidding')
Work colleagues imply the car is beneath my supposed 'status' (Honestly I'm not sure the little X1 would even placate them)
It is time - I admit - for something different and perhaps a little more upscale


Who wins? I fought the battle for 12 years as something 800-mile-per-tank 55mpg eco-responsible where I can still drive to all my favorite fun spots - but I fear I'm just once car repair bill away from getting the edict of "junk that thing finally"

Teleskier
08-10-2012, 04:57 PM
Also, I was told the battery was in the back. I assume under the cargo area.

Could be... I wonder if perhaps THAT is the reason for the match box carrier. It is about the right size for a battery access door. It might be underneath there.

SunnyandRich
08-10-2012, 05:06 PM
The X1 is not meant to haul bikes it's meant to haul strollers and shopping bags.

I get the sense that the X1 is one of those cars for people who like the idea of having and "outdoorsy" lifestyle rather than those who have them.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Hell I bet our 2012 Honda Fit has more room than an X1.

I had an X3 for a while but was never impressed with the cargo capacity of that either.

ddavid1101
08-10-2012, 05:11 PM
The X1 is not meant to haul bikes it's meant to haul strollers and shopping bags.

I get the sense that the X1 is one of those cars for people who like the idea of having and "outdoorsy" lifestyle rather than those who have them.

I'm looking at X1 now for when we have a family in a year or so.
I'm still questioning if it will fit a stroller and groceries back there.

A friend has an Infiniti ex35 which by the numbers, has more cargo space than X1 and they care BARLEY fit A stroller, baby bag and maybe 2-3 bags of groceries.

I cant imagine the X1 doing much better especially when cargo is smaller by the numbers published.

HotRodW
08-10-2012, 07:10 PM
I'm looking at X1 now for when we have a family in a year or so.
I'm still questioning if it will fit a stroller and groceries back there.

A friend has an Infiniti ex35 which by the numbers, has more cargo space than X1 and they care BARLEY fit A stroller, baby bag and maybe 2-3 bags of groceries.

I cant imagine the X1 doing much better especially when cargo is smaller by the numbers published.

You're right about the EX35. It has a smidge larger cargo area, but not much. And I think the rear seat might actually be smaller than the X1's. It's a great driver, however -- an absolute joy. Since you're getting ready to do the family thing, may I suggest a test drive of the XC60 if you haven't already done so? In my opinion, it's the must underrated vehicle in it's class. The R-Design is really special, with strong, linear power delivery. And while EPA gas mileage numbers are disappointing, I managed to exceed the highway number by a significant margin on both of my test drives. As a bonus it runs on regular unleaded. I was "this" close to buying one myself.

3ismagic#
08-10-2012, 07:40 PM
During those sedan days, it killed me having my $15K race bike outside in the elements while I was cozy inside. If it rained at constant "get into every crevice" windswept 70+ mph at my bike, I'd have to repack the hubs with imported lithium grease, re-lube the chain, etc. In parking lots or overnight, I was terrified of theft. Etc.



Sweet Jebus! that thing had better pedal itself at that price!:p

3ismagic#
08-10-2012, 07:50 PM
I'm looking at X1 now for when we have a family in a year or so.
I'm still questioning if it will fit a stroller and groceries back there.

A friend has an Infiniti ex35 which by the numbers, has more cargo space than X1 and they care BARLEY fit A stroller, baby bag and maybe 2-3 bags of groceries.

I cant imagine the X1 doing much better especially when cargo is smaller by the numbers published.

I have a 3 year old and I've never had any trouble fitting baby gear/stroller or groceries in my E90. I do have to take my driver out of the golf bag to get it in the trunk.

My wife will be needing a new car to replace her Mazda in the near future and I really liked the X1 when I saw it in Europe last year. I have/had high hopes that it could make a small SUV-wagon type family hauler when kiddo #2 makes his/her appearance. A car like this or a 5-door 1-series would seem perfect.

Reedo302
08-10-2012, 07:51 PM
I was about the buy the CX5 because the X1 went from "tentative" to "undetermined and on hiatus", but the 155hp made it just too slow for my wants. I have a 130hp Protege5 right now that I'm driving into the ground, and that thing is incredibly slow. I need faster acceleration and a better top end since I spend so much time driving on the freeway, and 155hp would still cause the problems I'm having now. I was then waiting for the Skyactiv-D diesel engine, but I'm sort of put off by it being a naturally aspirated diesel instead of a turbo diesel. The power is still low, but I was having hope that the massive torque would be a huge help. Fortunately, the X1 came back with the N20, so I'm happy again. I need fuel economy, power and AWD.
So, it's down to the X1 vs N20 328iT xDrive.

ddavid1101
08-10-2012, 09:37 PM
You're right about the EX35. It has a smidge larger cargo area, but not much. And I think the rear seat might actually be smaller than the X1's. It's a great driver, however -- an absolute joy. Since you're getting ready to do the family thing, may I suggest a test drive of the XC60 if you haven't already done so? In my opinion, it's the must underrated vehicle in it's class. The R-Design is really special, with strong, linear power delivery. And while EPA gas mileage numbers are disappointing, I managed to exceed the highway number by a significant margin on both of my test drives. As a bonus it runs on regular unleaded. I was "this" close to buying one myself.

Looked at it really quick. Great cargo space. Good interior. Pretty bad mpg(18/24) which is very last generation. Everyone at that mpg are coming out with new engines Q5, GLK etc. Also keep in mind, I'm not looking for AWD as I'm in Dallas, no snow/rain.

While I love the style and space and the price, there are many cars that are in the same situation such as Q5 etc. The only NEW SUV with good mpg out or coming out are X1, X3, GLK Diesel, Q5(diesel 2014), or even 3 touring 2013. Unfortunately I need a car by EOY.

My choices are very limited both by time and budget.

Currently just ruling on Santa Fe(2013 new model) or X1, might wait to hear details on GLK Diesel and the 3 touring.

HotRodW
08-10-2012, 10:21 PM
Looked at it really quick. Great cargo space. Good interior. Pretty bad mpg(18/24) which is very last generation. Everyone at that mpg are coming out with new engines Q5, GLK etc. Also keep in mind, I'm not looking for AWD as I'm in Dallas, no snow/rain.

While I love the style and space and the price, there are many cars that are in the same situation such as Q5 etc. The only NEW SUV with good mpg out or coming out are X1, X3, GLK Diesel, Q5(diesel 2014), or even 3 touring 2013. Unfortunately I need a car by EOY.

My choices are very limited both by time and budget.

Currently just ruling on Santa Fe(2013 new model) or X1, might wait to hear details on GLK Diesel and the 3 touring.

Your shopping list looks a lot like mine. I researched and tested for months. The GLK diesel could be a game changer. The new Santa Fe looks like a winner, and you know it will be price right. You didn't mention it, but I assume you've also looked at the RDX? I can't believe how well they're selling.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

SteVTEC
08-11-2012, 05:26 AM
Could be... I wonder if perhaps THAT is the reason for the match box carrier. It is about the right size for a battery access door. It might be underneath there.
Yes I was going to say that the battery is probably in the trunk which could be why the cargo floor is so high and why there might not be as much cargo space as you were expecting. Remember that BMWs are optimized for the best possible drive (which fundamentally includes a near 50/50 weight distribution), and not for best possible cargo space.

Nothing wrong with a Golf if that's what works for you, and yes you DO have a truly "active" lifestyle and are not just a poseur. I always see tons of Golfs whenever I'm in Europe, so if it's what works for you just get another one. Who cares what everybody else thinks? FWD and no battery in trunk, so yes that could be the difference.

ddavid1101
08-11-2012, 10:34 AM
Your shopping list looks a lot like mine. I researched and tested for months. The GLK diesel could be a game changer. The new Santa Fe looks like a winner, and you know it will be price right. You didn't mention it, but I assume you've also looked at the RDX? I can't believe how well they're selling.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

RDX mpg highway is 28. I'm looking for +30s. X1 is same as Santa Fe(starts at 25K). GLK will prob be high 30s. 3 touring will prob be similar to X1/328.

Just waiting for both Santa Fe and X1 to come in. Drive both a couple of times and see what kind of a deal I can get. Pull the trigger end of month or early Sept.

I would love to get a diesel but would mean I have to wait 2013-2014. I can get X1 now and trade in my Sonata in 3-5 years for a mid size SUV, I should have plenty of Diesel/high MPG choices by then.

Will keep you guys posted.

sgnirts
08-11-2012, 12:59 PM
Good discussion, some good points in here.

My first car was a GTI hatch, love at first sight, FUN FUN to drive.

Then moved up to 328i sedan. 328i was great car, except nothing fit inside. You just had the trunk area plus the rear seat back sitting angled on the rear seats.

During those sedan days, it killed me having my $15K race bike outside in the elements while I was cozy inside. If it rained at constant "get into every crevice" windswept 70+ mph at my bike, I'd have to repack the hubs with imported lithium grease, re-lube the chain, etc. In parking lots or overnight, I was terrified of theft. Etc.

I then moved back to Golf TDI. Everything fit again. Bike safe and pampered inside. Could take up to four bikes for me and my friends. In springtime I could take both my road and mountain bike on road trips and have room left for luggage.

So a bike rack idea doesn't cut it (for me). If I have to have that, then I might as well have a 'proper' sedan. Which to me, is the most sexy and correct shape for a car.

So I was contemplating a 3'er sedan, dreaming up ways to store the greasy bike somehow in back seat, when the X1 idea came out. I thought that was my hallelujah answer.

It still may be. I owe another trip back for take#2, perhaps this weekend.

For trip#1 - I had expectations that seemed to exceed what the X1 really is.

Now I have to go back with the mindset of "Alright, so it's not perfect, but HOW BAD is it really? Can I make do?" Stay tuned. I might take some pics as well, avec et sans the bike.

My wife and I put two mountain bikes in the back of our 2006 x3 a few times a week to go mountain biking, there are no fit issues for us at all. I load them "back end in first", if you load them with the handlebars toward the passenger compartment, then they don't fit. My wife and I both ride medium size bikes (18"). I thought I would mention the direction of bike entry in case you had not attempted that direction. I also turn the bars once the bike is in to get plenty of room between the bikes for wheels and gear. I'm looking to pull the same trick with the X1 if we get one. I measures the back hatch opening at 29 1/2 " high from floor to ceiling (3" less than our x3) and 3" less length than the x3. The width inside was pretty much the same. Best of luck!

X1blue
08-12-2012, 02:46 AM
So I was all excited to finally see the X1_xDrive_2.8i in person last night. I thought this was the closest available car that met my needs. I made peace with no manual, made peace with no diesel yet, made peace with the N20 4-cyl engine, made peace with the run-flat tires (which I know I’m going to hate trapped on a mountain trailhead miles from anywhere).

We have a Golf TDI and our X1 sDrive18d arrived 4 weeks ago. Aesthetically the X1 is way ahead of the VW Golf, we have the panoramic sunroof, leather interior and a host of electronic accessories to play with.

But mechanically it's a complete disaster and it's been in and out BMW service twice now. The steering vibrates, that never happened on the Golf. The gear stick vibrates too (probably why they dont sell manual version in the US) When you start the engine, the whole car shudders, rotates unlike the golf. But worst of all, VW (and every other car I have ever driven, including all the rentals) is more stable at 80kmh+ The X1 has unbearable vertical and horizontal vibration in the cabin- every little imperfection is passed on from the road to the point where the whole family gets sick after a few hours driving.

On the motorway to our house we made a video and you can see that the BMW bounces sharply 3 times at one point where the VW Golf 'waves' up and down gently, smoothing out the ride. The X1 suspension is tuned to take corners very very fast but does virtually nothing when going in a straight line..

BMW say the vibrations are 'normal' , we have been absolutely stunned by the complete and utter lack of any form of after sales support. We are going with information from the internet. When we pointed out that the test car didnt vibrate, nor is anyone else reporting this, the reply is "this car is in spec" have a nice life. Complete contrast to VW, when the Golf had a problem with the turbo after 6yrs, VW were all over us trying to solve. I know BMW sells a fraction of the cars VW/ Audi do, but this is ridiculous.

Do test drive again. Everything seemed fine after 40mins in the city and we signed up. But when you have it for a 3hr drive, its a very different story.

And do read carefully about the RFT. There are several people in the UK who have had problems with temperature, the car will vibrate more or less depending on the road temperature, in snow it can be truly horrible, as writers in Scotland will tell you. BMW did nothing in at least 4 cases. they sell cars which are configurable and some combinations have compromises, the shocks are the same and the wheel size and rubber type can make a HUGE difference to ride quality.
[/QUOTE]

Utility/Cargo : Grade F – as in the Fatal Flaw! This is supposed to be an SUV, or at least a crossover for “sports active” people. This is supposed to a step up from - or at least equal to - my tiny VW Golf TDI.

In my Golf TDI I can stand 4 mountain bikes in back (front wheels off). Most of time, I just have my race bike in back, standing up not lying down, taking 1/4 the cargo space where the rest 3/4 is free for bags and vacation home groceries/laundry. Other times it’s two bikes, where 1/2 the space is free for bags. This is how I drive to Cape Cod, or drive to Vermont for mountain biking, etc.

Good point and we are certainly dropping the seats more than before to get things in. This is a problem if you park in the city as with golf, stuff was hidden behind but in the X1 it is often visible. Lets see how long it will be before some kid breaks the glass only to find our groceries.

The floor of the back cargo area is extremely HIGH! As if there are two sets and levels of spare tires underneath there – when there is not even one spare tire. In my Golf, the floor is very low – giving a good floor to ceiling clearance – AND there is a full-size spare under the floor to boot. How did BMW screw this up?

true but actually this makes loading heavy objects easier for us..

we have the liquid repair kit which is standard, you have to order a spare tire in Europe, this is an option, the same as RFT. BTW, RFT were standard here but there were simply too many problems, particularly with strange handling at different temperatures.

Also, beware: not all garages have RFT, your once you get a flat, you have a limited distance, the same as with the liquid kits, but once you make it to a garage, its easier to find normal tyres. And often you have to change both front or rear RFT to balance the car afterwards, a used RFT has different characteristics.

Of course, dont expect BMW to help with any of this. Forums are littered with strange vibrations after changing RFT or normal tires. There is a frequent problem at higher speeds after changing factory fitted wheels which all the alignment in the world doesnt seem to fix.

It is amazing what you can find out about tires and suspensions after buying a BMW..


Am I off-base here or is BMW? None of those sport-active toys in their promo shots would actually fit in their car. And my GOLF – a lowly VW Golf – is a better vehicle for cargo than either the BMW X1 or X3??

Take a look at the Audi Q3 or Q5 and the Volvo XC60. We chose the X1 for its size, my wife in particular didnt want a huge car. but now she cant drive it as she getting motion sick- AT THE WHEEL!!

X1blue
08-12-2012, 02:50 AM
My thoughts exactly. I would have chose it over the X1 had it not been for the weak engine. It needs a turbo... The car represents a much better value than the X1 though. Similarly equipped the difference is $10K+. I'm betting the 28x handles better than the CX-5 AWD dispite it's weight disadvantage.

what about interiors? BMW, Mercedes and Audi tend to have better designs. I have only ever seen black inside the Mazda..

X1blue
08-12-2012, 02:56 AM
Looked at it really quick. Great cargo space. Good interior. Pretty bad mpg(18/24) which is very last generation. Everyone at that mpg are coming out with new engines Q5, GLK etc. Also keep in mind, I'm not looking for AWD as I'm in Dallas, no snow/rain.

The Q5 and GLK have better rides, they do not vibrate as much as the X1 and X3. Audi in particular has active suspension, something which you have to buy on the X3 and is not available on the X1.

While I love the style and space and the price, there are many cars that are in the same situation such as Q5 etc. The only NEW SUV with good mpg out or coming out are X1, X3, GLK Diesel, Q5(diesel 2014), or even 3 touring 2013. Unfortunately I need a car by EOY.

My choices are very limited both by time and budget.

Currently just ruling on Santa Fe(2013 new model) or X1, might wait to hear details on GLK Diesel and the 3 touring.

hhgolf
08-12-2012, 07:20 AM
Thank you for this important and timely post. I have had similar concerns if only from my reading. Dimensions of hatch opening and floor to ceiling cargo section would be useful to discuss. But your real world observation is invaluable.

adgrant
08-12-2012, 08:43 PM
If a GTI/Golf can do it - why can't these supposedly superior SAVs do it at twice the price?

I suppose it shows why the Golf was the best-selling car around the world for decades, and probably still is. Drives quite well (with true German spirit), great mileage, and everything fits.



The X1 is a station wagon with SAV styling. It drives like a 3 series car because it is. 3 series car. Even the X3 and X5 are not real SUVs. They are much closer though.

Also, every BMW I have ever owned had the battery installed under the floor of the Trunk.

zibawala
08-12-2012, 11:14 PM
The X1 is a station wagon with SAV styling. It drives like a 3 series car because it is. 3 series car. Even the X3 and X5 are not real SUVs. They are much closer though.

Also, every BMW I have ever owned had the battery installed under the floor of the Trunk.

I think 3 series car drive very well imho nevertheless:(

Teleskier
08-13-2012, 12:51 AM
My wife and I put two mountain bikes in the back of our 2006 x3 a few times a week to go mountain biking, there are no fit issues for us at all. I load them "back end in first", if you load them with the handlebars toward the passenger compartment, then they don't fit. My wife and I both ride medium size bikes (18"). I thought I would mention the direction of bike entry in case you had not attempted that direction. I also turn the bars once the bike is in to get plenty of room between the bikes for wheels and gear. I'm looking to pull the same trick with the X1 if we get one. I measures the back hatch opening at 29 1/2 " high from floor to ceiling (3" less than our x3) and 3" less length than the x3. The width inside was pretty much the same. Best of luck!

Excellent suggestion! I was a creature of habit and was already nervous as it was putting the bike into a brand new car of the concerned salesmen watching me. I never thought to put it in 'backwards' from my usual manner. I will try that if I can, on Test Drive Trip#3.

I took all the dimensions of the X1 cargo area vs my Golf, but sadly left that info at home. I do remember getting not quite 30" of height in the X1, whereas my Golf has a whole 3ft (36") of floor-to-ceiling height. That extra 6" and whole 3ft makes all the difference for fitting bikes, trash barrels, etc.

On my Golf, the lower floor is the key as my rear bike wheel goes there at the cargo rear where the floor is lowest, such that the seat clears the roof liner on top and the chainring clears the floor below. (My carbon seat posts are fused into the carbon frame by now, so no seat removal). I have a hard time visualizing how putting the rear wheel on the higher seat backs at the front would help the clearance, but I'm willing to experiment.

While I left the measurements at home, I do have some pictures of my 2001 Golf TDi vs the 2013 X1.

Front:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/156bad5d.png

Rear:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/4612761b.png

Cargo Area showing the seats resting up at an angle:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/41d44eef.jpg

One bike inside X1 (this is not my good custom bike but my training bike - with some treadwear showing on the rear tire! :) ):
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/ebdd8874.jpg

Note how high the floor is via the pen standing up at the lip:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/6e8dd61a.jpg

Side view#1:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/4e4f7fbc.jpg

Side view#2:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/19701f17.jpg

Bike inside X1 (at an angle, it only went another 5 degrees higher before hitting roof):
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/93fea297.png

Bike standing upright in the TDI Golf:
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj528/Teleskier1/f78aab6e.png

Teleskier
08-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Take a look at the Audi Q3 or Q5 and the Volvo XC60. We chose the X1 for its size, my wife in particular didnt want a huge car. but now she cant drive it as she getting motion sick- AT THE WHEEL!!

I started with the Q5 - hoping for the promised diesel to come for it. Never came - no diesel. And I was not impressed with how the Q5 drove anyway - very disconnected from road and Japanese in feeling to me.

I did not notice any bad vibrations or sway on the highway with the X1 at any speed. It felt solid to me. But I was only out for 20 mins at a pop, so it's something I'll have to pay attention to on the next test drive.

X1blue
08-13-2012, 01:13 AM
I started with the Q5 - hoping for the promised diesel to come for it. Never came - no diesel. And I was not impressed with how the Q5 drove anyway - very disconnected from road and Japanese in feeling to me.

I did not notice any bad vibrations or sway on the highway with the X1 at any speed. It felt solid to me. But I was only out for 20 mins at a pop, so it's something I'll have to pay attention to on the next test drive.

We liked the X3 and the Q5 but neither would fit easily in the garage in town, they are both quite long and particularly my wife didnt like the idea of parking. The Q3 was better in size and has more extras but it is 7k more expensive than the X1 (now we know why the X1 was cheaper!!)

Our impression of the X1 was also good, so we signed up. What we found later is that the constant vertical and horizontal shocks from even the best of motorways is enough to make you feel sea sick over after an hr and really quite ill after 3hrs driving. The Golf isnt as fast but it is far more comfortable over longer journeys.

So much so that the family is with me in a Ford Focus rental on holiday with the 4 week-old X1 in the garage..

Have you looked at the Tiguan? We stupidly passed on this car as we wanted a more premium brand.. and look where that got us. The only premium about the BMW is its price.

X1blue
08-13-2012, 01:24 AM
The X1 is a station wagon with SAV styling. It drives like a 3 series car because it is. 3 series car. Even the X3 and X5 are not real SUVs. They are much closer though.

Also, every BMW I have ever owned had the battery installed under the floor of the Trunk.

Indeed, the X1 is built on the former 3 Series (E91) platform. However, a good friend has a Series 3 and there is no comparison- the X1 has more noise inside from the road and the engine, and the Series 3 materials are much better. The material used on the interior of our X1 is actually loose!!

sgnirts
08-13-2012, 11:16 PM
I checked out the 2013 BMW x1 little further today. Here is a pic of two medium mountain bikes in the back. One bike is a full suspension 26er and the other is a 29er. I wanted to be sure even the largest wheels with 2.3" rubber fit. Indeed, they fit without stress. The sales guy at the dealership was very helpful! I also measured the rear bike carrier mounts (tow) and they are 34" apart on both the new X3 and 2013 x1, so it looks like the same rack is going to fit both vehicles. The x1 might be a little too noisy for me, it clocked in a decibel or two louder than my 2006 X3. My x3 has non-run-flat mx4v tires that may be helping road noise. I want to get a quieter suv than my 2006 X3, and a heated steering is a must due too poor circulation in my hands (gloves can't insulate cold fingers). I am going to check out the new X3 again, I had a loaner a month ago that was pretty quiet. Best of luck with vetting the X1! :)

http://www.buildthepark.com/bmwx1_bikesmed.jpg

X1blue
08-14-2012, 01:03 AM
I checked out the 2013 BMW x1 little further today. Here is a pic of two medium mountain bikes in the back. One bike is a full suspension 26er and the other is a 29er. I wanted to be sure even the largest wheels with 2.3" rubber fit. Indeed, they fit without stress. The sales guy at the dealership was very helpful! I also measured the rear bike carrier mounts (tow) and they are 34" apart on both the new X3 and 2013 x1, so it looks like the same rack is going to fit both vehicles. The x1 might be a little too noisy for me, it clocked in a decibel or two louder than my 2006 X3. My x3 has non-run-flat mx4v tires that may be helping road noise. I want to get a quieter suv than my 2006 X3, and a heated steering is a must due too poor circulation in my hands (gloves can't insulate cold fingers). I am going to check out the new X3 again, I had a loaner a month ago that was pretty quiet. Best of luck with vetting the X1! :)

http://www.buildthepark.com/bmwx1_bikesmed.jpg

The standard new X3 is definitely quieter than the X1 we offered with a very expensive interior upgrade. Be sure to check for wheel vibration on some of the models (the ones without EPS).

I guess you are accustomed to the hard ride but the Electronic Damper Control (EDC) option allows you to adjust the roughness from soft (pretty hard for me), Normal (very hard), Sport (harder than very hard) and Sport+ (harder than very hard but fast)

kosmo
08-15-2012, 06:40 PM
Tele, it is good to see that there is at least one other active biking guy in the world that likes fun cars! Last summer I went through what you are dealing with now. After many (many!) years, I have concluded that if my "fun" car cannot carry a 29er mtb upright in the back, I'm just not going to end up loving it. In my old X3, it worked fine. Built a small board that mounted to the rear floor tracks, and put a fork mount on it. Remove front wheel, remove seatpost, load bike in backwards, clamp down, and good to go. Eventually for non-bike reasons (old, crippled pet), the non-flat load floor drove me nuts. Time for a change anyway at 49.9k, so went more "fun" with a 128. Hey, dead flat load floor! Much trickier to get a bike in back, but really, 3 extra minutes at each end of a drive. Not a deal killer. Plus, a really cool OEM rack (since discontinued) that mounted to hidden hard points inside the bumper. But, after a few years of that kind of bike hauling, it got old, so onwards, days before warranty expiration.

It is amazing how few vehicles have rear seats that truly fold flat! And infuriating that BMW has done it in the 3 wagons forever, but not in the X5, X3, or X1, which are supposed to be for so-called active people. Then you see the simple articulating genius of the rear seat folding system in a Toyota RAV4 (which has a design nearly 8 years old), and get even more puzzling. Where is that German engineering pride?! Based on my shopping, as far as available load height and rear seat folding flatness, in no particular order: MDX, poor; Q7, poor (cannot even roll an upright 29 inch wheel through the rear opening!); Porsche Cayenne, poor, and the list continues. Mercedes GLK goes full flat, but not exactly a sporty driver (possible improved with the recent refresh?).

In the end, I came within a day or two of ordering an X3. Just too many little things besides the rear seat issue that bugged me. Ended up with a RAV4 V6 Sport, which had not even been on my long list, let alone short list. Not a BMW, but a good, fast car that will hold its value really well for 3 or 4 years, by which time I hope to find that elusive perfect vehicle for guys who like fun cars but insist on carrying their bikes inside! Sadly, it sounds like I can cross the X1 off that list.

Finally, I agree with the earlier recommendation for the XC60, but unless something has changed drastically since I last checked, you REALLY take it on the chin at resale/trade in time with Volvos.

Good luck with your quest!

mason
08-16-2012, 08:02 AM
Indeed, the X1 is built on the former 3 Series (E91) platform. However, a good friend has a Series 3 and there is no comparison- the X1 has more noise inside from the road and the engine, and the Series 3 materials are much better. The material used on the interior of our X1 is actually loose!!

Ah yes, it is 1 series, lower than 3 series. Material is supposed to be inferior comparing to 3 series. It is expected. Not only that, it is a SUV, regardless whatever they want to call it, it is going to pick up more road noise and wind noise than a sedan.

jettie1767
08-16-2012, 08:12 AM
Why not look at some other car that will fit your needs instead of trying to shoehorn one that doesn't seem to fit your lifestyle?

brkf
08-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Tele, it is good to see that there is at least one other active biking guy in the world that likes fun cars! Last summer I went through what you are dealing with now. After many (many!) years, I have concluded that if my "fun" car cannot carry a 29er mtb upright in the back, I'm just not going to end up loving it. In my old X3, it worked fine. Built a small board that mounted to the rear floor tracks, and put a fork mount on it. Remove front wheel, remove seatpost, load bike in backwards, clamp down, and good to go. Eventually for non-bike reasons (old, crippled pet), the non-flat load floor drove me nuts. Time for a change anyway at 49.9k, so went more "fun" with a 128. Hey, dead flat load floor! Much trickier to get a bike in back, but really, 3 extra minutes at each end of a drive. Not a deal killer. Plus, a really cool OEM rack (since discontinued) that mounted to hidden hard points inside the bumper. But, after a few years of that kind of bike hauling, it got old, so onwards, days before warranty expiration.

It is amazing how few vehicles have rear seats that truly fold flat! And infuriating that BMW has done it in the 3 wagons forever, but not in the X5, X3, or X1, which are supposed to be for so-called active people. Then you see the simple articulating genius of the rear seat folding system in a Toyota RAV4 (which has a design nearly 8 years old), and get even more puzzling. Where is that German engineering pride?! Based on my shopping, as far as available load height and rear seat folding flatness, in no particular order: MDX, poor; Q7, poor (cannot even roll an upright 29 inch wheel through the rear opening!); Porsche Cayenne, poor, and the list continues. Mercedes GLK goes full flat, but not exactly a sporty driver (possible improved with the recent refresh?).

In the end, I came within a day or two of ordering an X3. Just too many little things besides the rear seat issue that bugged me. Ended up with a RAV4 V6 Sport, which had not even been on my long list, let alone short list. Not a BMW, but a good, fast car that will hold its value really well for 3 or 4 years, by which time I hope to find that elusive perfect vehicle for guys who like fun cars but insist on carrying their bikes inside! Sadly, it sounds like I can cross the X1 off that list.

Finally, I agree with the earlier recommendation for the XC60, but unless something has changed drastically since I last checked, you REALLY take it on the chin at resale/trade in time with Volvos.

Good luck with your quest!

Kosmo - wife just went through this and ended up with a RAV4 Limited V6. We looked at everything, including BMWs, but in the end she loved the power of the V6, the 7 place seating (which we have used a couple times in the month we've owned it) and that the vehicle was so darn flexible for a reasonable price.

She misses her Audi but admits the RAV4 fits our growing families needs better...

kosmo
08-16-2012, 05:44 PM
Kosmo - wife just went through this and ended up with a RAV4 Limited V6. We looked at everything, including BMWs, but in the end she loved the power of the V6, the 7 place seating (which we have used a couple times in the month we've owned it) and that the vehicle was so darn flexible for a reasonable price.

She misses her Audi but admits the RAV4 fits our growing families needs better...

If only it had that BMW feeling of brick-like solidity! But it is close. I really have but one MAJOR gripe: Not enough control of the auto tranny. I don't expect lightning-quick paddle shifters in a Toyota, but when I choose a gear, I want that gear unless it will hurt the car. On the RAV4, it is too eager to downshift, which I fear will not be desirable in snow driving. I know that my wife and dog don't especially appreciate it.

One major thing my Sport model shares perfectly with BMWs are the crap run-flat tires!

adgrant
08-16-2012, 08:46 PM
Ah yes, it is 1 series, lower than 3 series. Material is supposed to be inferior comparing to 3 series. It is expected. Not only that, it is a SUV, regardless whatever they want to call it, it is going to pick up more road noise and wind noise than a sedan.

The X1 is clearly not an SUV, it's a station wagon.

adgrant
08-16-2012, 08:47 PM
I think 3 series car drive very well imho nevertheless:(

Was anyone suggesting that they didn't?

ND40oz
08-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Ah yes, it is 1 series, lower than 3 series. Material is supposed to be inferior comparing to 3 series. It is expected. Not only that, it is a SUV, regardless whatever they want to call it, it is going to pick up more road noise and wind noise than a sedan.

E82's interior is identical to the E92's, same leather, same options. The X1 is the lowest price BMW available, cheaper then the 1 series.

brkf
08-17-2012, 01:16 AM
If only it had that BMW feeling of brick-like solidity! But it is close. I really have but one MAJOR gripe: Not enough control of the auto tranny. I don't expect lightning-quick paddle shifters in a Toyota, but when I choose a gear, I want that gear unless it will hurt the car. On the RAV4, it is too eager to downshift, which I fear will not be desirable in snow driving. I know that my wife and dog don't especially appreciate it.

One major thing my Sport model shares perfectly with BMWs are the crap run-flat tires!

My wife came from a DSG-equipped car so yes the lazy 5 speed is not ideal compared to what she likes. We have the limited so normal tire.

She dug the X5 and X3 but felt both were just not flexible enough. Of the rest of the competition the lack of power drove her away from most vehicles.

brkf
08-17-2012, 01:20 AM
E82's interior is identical to the E92's, same leather, same options. The X1 is the lowest price BMW available, cheaper then the 1 series.

Kinda misleading. You must option it to the high heavens to get simple things like xenon lights.

X1blue
08-17-2012, 02:05 AM
E82's interior is identical to the E92's, same leather, same options. The X1 is the lowest price BMW available, cheaper then the 1 series.

We have the Design Cool Package and the leather is the same as the new X3. The X1 has more hard plastic without the soft rubber-ish coating, probably why there is more noise in the cabin.

In Europe, the X1 is not cheaper than any series 1 car. But is the X1 a series 1 or a series X??!! And do the numbers indicate falling quality or diminishing size?

The X1 lack several options the X3 has, for example you cant get the Electronic Damper Control (EDC) on the X1, something the car really lacks. It is very unstable and vibrate s great deal passing 70km/h.

There is some trade off in quality and this is a foolish move for BMW. The Series 1 should be a stepping stone to larger cars, entry level models to capture future clients. Who is going to stay with a brand if they have crap car when there are so many other cars out there in the same segment but of better quality.

I tested the new 118d yesterday which is basically the same as an X1, a but lower down and a bit shorter. Like the Golf but not as high. Very agile but a bit too small inside.

ND40oz
08-17-2012, 08:09 AM
Kinda misleading. You must option it to the high heavens to get simple things like xenon lights.

Fair enough, option out the 135i and X1 35i and they're roughly the same price. They're also built in the same factory, if there really is a difference in build quality it would come down to design rather then actual build.

We have the Design Cool Package and the leather is the same as the new X3. The X1 has more hard plastic without the soft rubber-ish coating, probably why there is more noise in the cabin.

In Europe, the X1 is not cheaper than any series 1 car. But is the X1 a series 1 or a series X??!! And do the numbers indicate falling quality or diminishing size?

The X1 lack several options the X3 has, for example you cant get the Electronic Damper Control (EDC) on the X1, something the car really lacks. It is very unstable and vibrate s great deal passing 70km/h.

There is some trade off in quality and this is a foolish move for BMW. The Series 1 should be a stepping stone to larger cars, entry level models to capture future clients. Who is going to stay with a brand if they have crap car when there are so many other cars out there in the same segment but of better quality.

I tested the new 118d yesterday which is basically the same as an X1, a but lower down and a bit shorter. Like the Golf but not as high. Very agile but a bit too small inside.

Depends on what 1 Series you're buying, I lived in England and the 135i started a few grand more then a X1 xDrive 23d, which was the highest spec X1 you could get. I don't know what your pricing is like in Spain though, I was referring to US pricing in that comparison.

Does the X3 have the soft touch plastic? I know my X5 doesn't, it's almost like they did away with the soft touch in the X series. So unless you get the leather dash, you're getting hard textured plastic.

Also, I'd have your X1 looked at if it's unstable and vibrates, I had an X1 xDrive 18d up to a 180+ km/h in Germany and it was perfectly stable, didn't ride any different then the 320iT we had as well and they were both on winter tires. Otherwise we would have gone faster.

X1blue
08-17-2012, 08:57 AM
Kinda misleading. You must option it to the high heavens to get simple things like xenon lights.

And take out a mortgage. 25% our our car price was options!!

I believe they seriously considered making the motor an optional extra..

X1blue
08-17-2012, 09:04 AM
Depends on what 1 Series you're buying, I lived in England and the 135i started a few grand more then a X1 xDrive 23d, which was the highest spec X1 you could get. I don't know what your pricing is like in Spain though, I was referring to US pricing in that comparison.

Does the X3 have the soft touch plastic? I know my X5 doesn't, it's almost like they did away with the soft touch in the X series. So unless you get the leather dash, you're getting hard textured plastic.

Also, I'd have your X1 looked at if it's unstable and vibrates, I had an X1 xDrive 18d up to a 180+ km/h in Germany and it was perfectly stable, didn't ride any different then the 320iT we had as well and they were both on winter tires. Otherwise we would have gone faster.
The options complicate things, base model prices are have the Series 1 below the X1. Interestingly, it seems as though the new Series 1 has more options than the 2009 X1.

We only tested the X3 once I think the glove compartment area has soft plastic. Might be confusing it with the Audi Q5 or the Mercedes GLK. The X1 has hard plastic except for the inlay areas.

The X1 is 5 weeks old and has spend 10 days in the garage so far... should have bought a Mercedes or an Audi (or a WV, Hundai, Ford, Skoda..)

the_fox
08-17-2012, 08:26 PM
X1blue is your X1 a 2012 or 2013? Because a lot of reviews say that the interiour quality was improved with the face lifted 2013 X1.

X1blue
08-18-2012, 01:13 AM
X1blue is your X1 a 2012 or 2013? Because a lot of reviews say that the interiour quality was improved with the face lifted 2013 X1.

July 2012. the 2013 models enter production in September but there is no change in the interior except the angle of the central LCD display if you order this option, at least that is what they are saying in Europe.
There is a lot of information and mis-information about the X1 at present. Even the German literature is not ready..

Bob Shiftright
08-18-2012, 05:47 AM
Honda seems to have managed to design the Fit to fit bikes. (And you can buy 2 or 3 Fits for the price of an X1!)

I just dropped by to see if BMW was going to import the X1 with a manual transmission (no), since they aren't importing the F31 with a manual transmission.

It looks like I'll need to buy a Golf or GTI to replace my E91 in a couple of years. (Or a couple of Honda Fits.)

X1blue
08-18-2012, 09:52 AM
The diesel versions have vibrations on the steering wheel and the gear stick has a tremendous kick-back on startup. I guess they dont want to risk a lot of complaints with their manual diesel X1.

Have you looked at the VW Tiguan? In Europe, the Range Rover Evoke and the VW Tiguan are highly rated and often compared to the weaker X1.

the_fox
08-18-2012, 12:22 PM
X1 vs X3 size comparison, for anyone curious.

Teleskier
08-21-2012, 10:56 PM
Well, I pulled the trigger!

I secured an ED for next month. M Sport xDrive 28i, full everything (19", Ultimate, heat seats, Harmon, Servotronic). Coral red (yikes, did I really do that?!?).

I might as well make the announcement here - to show the full circle of my on-again-off-again decision process.

In short I simply got tired of waiting for the perfect next car. I had been contemplating it for 10+ years.

This seemed as close as I would ever get to a decent car that (in order) is:
- FUN to drive
- Connected to the road
- Is good in snow (AWD)
- Rides high enough to not be the lowest car on my snowy rural roads anymore (as present TDI 'plows' the road 2-4" lower)
- But not too high to be X3/SUV/Jeep-like tippy
- Has space enough that I can work with it to make things fit
- But not too big to be bigger-than-needed and less fun to drive
- Gets decent mileage for a gasser
- Freed me from paying-more-than-gas-for-cheaper-to-make-diesel annoyance in the US (not the case in Europe, and always ticked me off every time at pump)
- Was different from current car for a much needed and desired change of pace (sorry VW and chipped diesel, both were & are still great for 12 years)
- Was not a staid boring uninspiring station wagon (from 1970)
- Was not a huge over-sized screw-the-world SUV (from 2000)
- European delivery
- Best of both worlds: Eco mode for when in not-fun slow traffic, Sport mode for FUN moments when can drive Autobahn-style
- The luxury items above my current VW level (Xeon, leather, parking camera, wood trim, etc)
- European eco-friendly features like auto start/stop

It hit enough of the highs, and I made peace with its lows. I feel I can make it work in my life. We'll see. FUN was #1.

The next runners up would have been in order: VW GTI (FUN!), Audi A3 TDI (US only gets 4-door, looks a bit too station wagony), VW TDI Golf (good but a bit plain), and then came the dozen or so uninspiring-to-drive bigger SUVs (from Ford Edge to Kia Sportage to X3 to Q5). Despite any German badges, if it was going to drive like a disconnected Asian car anyway, it opened up the door to all the other Asian-driving and American-driving cars. And I was not having fun in any of them. YMMV.

Updates to the prior conversation:

The body shape did grow on me. It does not look awkward to me any more, and in fact I started to really like it. It started looking like 'my car'.

The battery is indeed below the rear cargo floor ***8211; I saw it tonight.

Tonight I also discovered that the rear floor pad and matchbox storage area is REMOVABLE! There is a SECOND floor pad below that one, covering the battery. That gains me back another 2" or more in floor to ceiling height for the bikes. I should be able to make something work with that to get the bikes standing up ***8211; rear wheel entry first might also help, where the forks can go in this new hole area right above the battery. And of course the X1 is lower to make getting the kayaks on the roof go easier.

So now the long WAIT of anticipation begins***8230;..

petriej
08-22-2012, 12:30 AM
Wow. I hope you're happy with your decision. An ED is very nice, but the waiting can be very stressful.

the_fox
08-22-2012, 05:35 AM
Congrats! Just enjoy it, don't stress too much, after all it's just a car, it's not like you're marrying her for life ;) One thing you'll most certainly enjoy is ED, buying a BMW is worth it for that experience alone. Make sure you drive her on the 'bahn. Now hop over to the ED forum and start planning your trip!

HotRodW
08-22-2012, 07:00 AM
Congrats! Sorry if I missed it in your post, but what color?

Teleskier
08-22-2012, 10:49 AM
Congrats! Sorry if I missed it in your post, but what color?

Sapphire black. I hope the combo works when I see it in person. Like much of the looks of the car initially, I feel it could go either way. Taking a big chance like this is out of character for me.

In buttoned-down Boston, I can see the combo as possibly being received as feeling anything from too Vegas, too LA, too ethnic, too Ferrari Italian, too .... some friends had much less kind words than these. Don't get me wrong; I do like the overall 'proper' almost-British cultural feel and values of Boston in most things (often seeming more European than sometimes US). My last BMW had a very safe and staid and proper beige interior. It fit right in with all the rest.

So my little flash of red might liven up my otherwise classic shingle-style house while sitting out front. I'm doing it for me. And for me, I hope the red will just 'feel fast' inside and just feel FUN.

I sat in a coral red BMW of a different M model yesterday before pulling the trigger. My first reaction really surprised me. I didn't really have one! I thought it would be one extreme or the other ***8211; HATE it or LOVE it. It was neither. It just produced a mild "Hmmm. OK".

I did have that strong reaction, of "Ewwww" in a bad way, at the very first red leather BMW I saw on yet a different older BMW model several weeks ago. That red looked bright lipstick red, and did seem of the very strong (almost garish) red spectrum end, and my friend at the time exclaimed in sheer horror - at the mere prospect of me ever having such a car - that it was like "sitting completely engulfed in Sandra Bernhardt's big red lips!!"

Initially I wanted the current classic 'a la mode' combo (at least in Boston right now) of many Range Rovers and X3s with black exterior and cinnamon (slightly orange red but mostly brown) leather interior. I really do like that classic warm and 'home-y' look.

But given only three X1 interior M color choices - boring beige or all black on black on black for the M, which ironically I felt was an even stronger statement (Darth Vader 'death car') than coral, coral won.

So I rolled the dice toward going BIG and toward going FUN. I can still be wearing my buttoned-down Boston cardigans while driving this car, so I won't be totally run off the streets.

I spent a long time in the Coral red interior at the dealer (different & bigger car but same color). Despite starting off as neutral on it, the more I saw it, the more I liked it. Just like the exterior looks went for me. It was a good trend, I went with it. Hope it holds true.

Will I be shocked seeing it for the first time while walking down the BMW Welt stairs of joy ("What have I done?"), or thrilled ("That's right ***8211; uh-huh - that's my car!")?

Only time will tell.

(Colors are highly subjective, as is my text above, so apologies if I gored one of your colors above ***8211; color preferences change over time even for the same person ***8211; I had a red GTI, moved away from it, had a classic cobalt blue and beige, now decades later returned to something with some red again ***8211; go figure). YMMV.

Teleskier
08-22-2012, 05:37 PM
The sound of crickets...

So share your view... black exterior, red interior... how insane is this? What's your take?

I might as well hear the straight dope here before my friends get to me.

And I still have time to change the colors, if needed.

Not that this makes the PRO case for me since these instead feed my nervousness (X1 coral is slightly more subtle than these), but these are the closest images I can find for any car in that combo:

http://www.miata.net/news/images/rs05_025l.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/dark_phantom_1978/corvette/corvette1.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1712/myvet124vh.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/520/myvet54fp.jpg

HotRodW
08-22-2012, 05:59 PM
"The sound of crickets...

So share your view... black exterior, red interior... how insane is this? What's your take?

I might as well hear the straight dope here before my friends get to me.

And I still have time to change the colors, if needed.

Not that this makes the PRO case for me since these instead feed my nervousness (X1 coral is slightly more subtle than these), but these are the closest images I can find for any car in that combo"

(I couldn't quote your post to reply. What's up with that???)

================================================== =====

Sorry - I didn't mean to let you hanging. I actually think it will look great! The red and black should contrast nicely. My initial choice was Mineral Gray over the Coral, so our taste isn't that different. If your order moves as quickly as mine, you won't have long to make any changes, not that I think you should. My order went in late on a Friday and started production the following Monday. I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your car.

the_fox
08-22-2012, 06:59 PM
Teleskier, you worry too much about what others will think of your car. Since you're the one who's going to make the payments for the car, and you're the one who's gonna be driving it every day, in the end who cares what your "friends" will think? I bet that any combo you choose will have some naysayers. But as long as YOU are happy with your choices, that's all that should matter.

Now personally I haven't yet seen coral red in real life, but I do like how it looks on the BMW configurator page.

motordavid
08-22-2012, 07:24 PM
Congrats on your ED order! :thumbup:

I would have taken the Vette in a NY min, in a 'choice'...I have a C5 and it's the best car I have ever owned in 5 decades.

Hope you manage to fit your stuff in that tiny way back, buy some dedicated snows for the NE winter and ski trips, and quit ranting about what your friends or the Boston Brahmins may think about it. It's your car. ;)
GL, mD

r_dubbs
01-27-2014, 03:24 PM
[ignore]

r_dubbs
01-27-2014, 03:24 PM
Well, I pulled the trigger!

I secured an ED for next month. M Sport xDrive 28i, full everything (19", Ultimate, heat seats, Harmon, Servotronic). Coral red (yikes, did I really do that?!?).

I might as well make the announcement here - to show the full circle of my on-again-off-again decision process.

In short I simply got tired of waiting for the perfect next car. I had been contemplating it for 10+ years.

This seemed as close as I would ever get to a decent car that (in order) is:
- FUN to drive
- Connected to the road
- Is good in snow (AWD)
- Rides high enough to not be the lowest car on my snowy rural roads anymore (as present TDI 'plows' the road 2-4" lower)
- But not too high to be X3/SUV/Jeep-like tippy
- Has space enough that I can work with it to make things fit
- But not too big to be bigger-than-needed and less fun to drive
- Gets decent mileage for a gasser
- Freed me from paying-more-than-gas-for-cheaper-to-make-diesel annoyance in the US (not the case in Europe, and always ticked me off every time at pump)
- Was different from current car for a much needed and desired change of pace (sorry VW and chipped diesel, both were & are still great for 12 years)
- Was not a staid boring uninspiring station wagon (from 1970)
- Was not a huge over-sized screw-the-world SUV (from 2000)
- European delivery
- Best of both worlds: Eco mode for when in not-fun slow traffic, Sport mode for FUN moments when can drive Autobahn-style
- The luxury items above my current VW level (Xeon, leather, parking camera, wood trim, etc)
- European eco-friendly features like auto start/stop

It hit enough of the highs, and I made peace with its lows. I feel I can make it work in my life. We'll see. FUN was #1.

The next runners up would have been in order: VW GTI (FUN!), Audi A3 TDI (US only gets 4-door, looks a bit too station wagony), VW TDI Golf (good but a bit plain), and then came the dozen or so uninspiring-to-drive bigger SUVs (from Ford Edge to Kia Sportage to X3 to Q5). Despite any German badges, if it was going to drive like a disconnected Asian car anyway, it opened up the door to all the other Asian-driving and American-driving cars. And I was not having fun in any of them. YMMV.

Updates to the prior conversation:

The body shape did grow on me. It does not look awkward to me any more, and in fact I started to really like it. It started looking like 'my car'.

The battery is indeed below the rear cargo floor – I saw it tonight.

Tonight I also discovered that the rear floor pad and matchbox storage area is REMOVABLE! There is a SECOND floor pad below that one, covering the battery. That gains me back another 2" or more in floor to ceiling height for the bikes. I should be able to make something work with that to get the bikes standing up – rear wheel entry first might also help, where the forks can go in this new hole area right above the battery. And of course the X1 is lower to make getting the kayaks on the roof go easier.

So now the long WAIT of anticipation begins…...
Hey, no idea if you still have any presence on this forum, but how did it end up working out? Your bikes fit in OK? And generally, how do you like your purchase?

I've been doing research on getting a car much like your requirements: fun, just big enough, premium - but can't figure out if it'll fit:
- 180cm skis (down the middle, put down, and over the center console?)
- Decent-sized road or tri bike with front wheel removed?

Thanks for all the posts, they've been the single most useful source of insight that I've come across!

Mr Peanut
01-27-2014, 09:43 PM
Your skis will fit as you described. Not sure bout the bike.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

r_dubbs
01-27-2014, 10:29 PM
Your skis will fit as you described. Not sure bout the bike.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Thanks!

JimH46
01-28-2014, 10:03 AM
I have no trouble fitting my ski bag in the rear at an angle with one seat still up. Skis are a bit shorter than yours (168cm) but there's extra room so longer ones will fit fine.

r_dubbs
01-28-2014, 11:59 AM
I have no trouble fitting my ski bag in the rear at an angle with one seat still up. Skis are a bit shorter than yours (168cm) but there's extra room so longer ones will fit fine.

Out of curiosity, why put them diagonally (as I understood you) rather than straight through the middle and over the center console?

Thanks!

JimH46
01-28-2014, 12:15 PM
Out of curiosity, why put them diagonally (as I understood you) rather than straight through the middle and over the center console?

Thanks!

Yes diagonally. It's to leave the front driver and passenger area clear. It's usually my wife on I driving to Vermont with both rear seats down covers removed and the back loaded with gear. Skis go in first then the baggage. We go for 2 weeks at a stretch so there's lots of stuff. Once the car is unloaded, I move the one seat up and put the covers back. If you have three passengers, then lowering the center seatback and putting the skis straight in is your only option if you don't have a roof rack or box.

r_dubbs
01-28-2014, 12:46 PM
Yes diagonally. It's to leave the front driver and passenger area clear. It's usually my wife on I driving to Vermont with both rear seats down covers removed and the back loaded with gear. Skis go in first then the baggage. We go for 2 weeks at a stretch so there's lots of stuff. Once the car is unloaded, I move the one seat up and put the covers back. If you have three passengers, then lowering the center seatback and putting the skis straight in is your only option if you don't have a roof rack or box.

Heh, I was at Stowe 2 weeks ago! Nice but very icy and cold.

Thank you, very helpful info. I like the flexibility of either putting all seats down and keeping the front clear, or putting them down the middle with one friend who I like and two who I want to punish for a few hours.

And all that while protecting the skis without a huge efficiency-cutting box.

Robocheme
01-28-2014, 10:28 PM
Hey, no idea if you still have any presence on this forum, but how did it end up working out? Your bikes fit in OK? And generally, how do you like your purchase?

I've been doing research on getting a car much like your requirements: fun, just big enough, premium - but can't figure out if it'll fit:
- 180cm skis (down the middle, put down, and over the center console?)
- Decent-sized road or tri bike with front wheel removed?

Thanks for all the posts, they've been the single most useful source of insight that I've come across!

I ride a 54 road bike and I just fold down the rear seats and take the front wheel off. Plenty of room.

li21
02-17-2014, 08:19 PM
Im thinking of going from my X1 xdrive20D to an older Golf GTi.

Knowing the space is probably not an issue is reassuraing.

Space in my X1 was never really an issue..
its the way it drives. Worst car I've ever had .

see:
http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=909028

atomicfront
02-20-2014, 08:58 PM
Im thinking of going from my X1 xdrive20D to an older Golf GTi.

Knowing the space is probably not an issue is reassuraing.

Space in my X1 was never really an issue..
its the way it drives. Worst car I've ever had .

see:
http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=909028

Why not just buy a new car? Used cars tend to have issues that is why people sell them.