WOuld you buy "upgraded" window regulators from an aftermarket company?

[bmw325]

I was just thinking that this would be a great business opportunity for a company like bavarianauto. They've offered upgrade parts in the past (thermostats, water pumps and bushings) where BMW has failed. I just wrote them an email suggesting this. If you also think this is a good idea, let them know! Are there any other companies that it would make sense to suggest this to? Or, maybe I shoud just go into the window regulator business myself- I could proably retire in 2 years. :)

[Kaz]

Well, there are some companies that do this for German cars already. Most are OEMs that make, or used to make, parts for the carmakers, but decide they can improve on em and sell them on the aftermarket. This is pretty common for BMW suspension parts. Lemforder and Meyle are two that come to mind.

[kurichan]

Just what on a window regulator could actually be improved? I can't imagine craving a window regulator, but maybe I'm missing something...

[TD]

Just what on a window regulator could actually be improved? I can't imagine craving a window regulator, but maybe I'm missing something...
Simply designing one that lasts, say, 50K miles without failing would be a HUGE improvement.

[epc]

I wouldn't buy it just for upgrading. But after I run out of warranty and my window regulator breaks, I will definitely go aftermarket if I am convinced that they make quality, better-than-oem parts. A competitive price will help, of course.

[SergioK]

Simply designing one that lasts, say, 50K miles without failing would be a HUGE improvement.

My car has 88k miles on it and both regulators are original although now my driver's side window is making the tell tale 'failing regulator' noises. I guess BMW's don't like their windows being moved up and down two/four times a day.

[bmw325]

Just what on a window regulator could actually be improved? I can't imagine craving a window regulator, but maybe I'm missing something...

None of us crave windoe regulators. :)

Its just that the e46 window regulators conistently faill in less than 50k. I think its mostly due to the use of some plastic parts that really should be metal.

[Salvator]

55K on my car... 3rd regulator on the driver's door, original on the passenger door... Wonder why that is? :mad: ;)

[E90Alan]

Yes... I would say there is interest in a product like this. I had seven (yes seven) regulators replaced on my 2000 328i and now two on my 2003 330i. If it was off warranty, I would be inclined to just replace all four with an upgraded after market pat if one was available.

I would not even wait for them to break. Seems like mine always go out at the most inopportune time (like when pulling out of the driveway to leave for vacation).

[bmw325]

Yes... I would say there is interest in a product like this. I had seven (yes seven) regulators replaced on my 2000 328i and now two on my 2003 330i. If it was off warranty, I would be inclined to just replace all four with an upgraded after market pat if one was available.

I would not even wait for them to break. Seems like mine always go out at the most inopportune time (like when pulling out of the driveway to leave for vacation).

Agree. BTW, I got a response from bavarianauto (actually their webmaster). It was sort of a blow-off kind of resonse like "we'll take that under advisement". I encourage more people here to email them and let them know there is a real market for parts that BMW is unable to design.

[kurichan]

None of us crave windoe regulators. :)

Its just that the e46 window regulators conistently faill in less than 50k. I think its mostly due to the use of some plastic parts that really should be metal.

I see I see... Guess I've never kept a car long enough to know things like this :eeps: I sort of misread the original post. I thought the proposal was for "high performance" window regulators... :rofl:

[bmw325]

I see I see... Guess I've never kept a car long enough to know things like this :eeps: I sort of misread the original post. I thought the proposal was for "high performance" window regulators... :rofl:

I could see how the title of my post might be construed that way. :rofl:

Unfortunately, you don't have to keep an e46 very long (maybe 2-3 years somtimes less) to experience a window reg failure.

This is the kind of thing i'd actually be most likely to "mod" my car with-- better quality parts. I don't think I'm going to find as appealing a package in a new car as the e46 for quite some time. But, the e46 is not really the "bullet-proof", run it for 25 years kind of car the e30 was. I'm hoping the aftermarket can step-in where BMW cheaped out.

[gerg]

Just what on a window regulator could actually be improved? I can't imagine craving a window regulator, but maybe I'm missing something...

Having the biggest failure item of the regulator system not to break, i.e. the crappy pullies for the cable. Something that will take the temperature cycling and cable pressure. My 94 Corolla failed for the same reason on both front regulators and I was suprised to see the same materials used. JUNK!!!!!! :thumbdwn:

Greg
:

[bmw325]

Having the biggest failure item of the regulator system not to break, i.e. the crappy pullies for the cable. Something that will take the temperature cycling and cable pressure. My 94 Corolla failed for the same reason on both front regulators and I was suprised to see the same materials used. JUNK!!!!!! :thumbdwn:

Greg
:

Yes, a proper regulator would need better pulleys, better guide wires, metal (not plastic) attachments, etc. Actually a proper regulator would be more like the "old school" regulatro used in older cars liek this one:
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/cpw/M462906.html

rather than the cheap, prone-to-failure pulley-type used in most cars now:
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/cpw/N491704.html

[Kaz]

If it's a matter of a couple of parts in the assembly and not an engineering issue with its design, what about a retrofit kit to replace just the shoddy parts? It would be a lot less costly both from a design and a sales perspective.

[bmw325]

If it's a matter of a couple of parts in the assembly and not an engineering issue with its design, what about a retrofit kit to replace just the shoddy parts? It would be a lot less costly both from a design and a sales perspective.

True. My sense is that its an overall shoddy design-- but other carmakers (especially Japanese makers) use a similar design and generally are able to get 8-10 years out of it. I'm sure that switching some of the plastic parts to metal would go a long way toward improving the reliability of this ridiculous part.

[Kaz]

True. My sense is that its an overall shoddy design-- but other carmakers (especially Japanese makers) use a similar design and generally are able to get 8-10 years out of it. I'm sure that switching some of the plastic parts to metal would go a long way toward improving the reliability of this ridiculous part.

Well, I don't know if I'd make that generalization. My former Mitsubishi went through 6 regulators in 3 years that were of a Japanese design but made by Teledyne in the US.

[bmw325]

Well, I don't know if I'd make that generalization. My former Mitsubishi went through 6 regulators in 3 years that were of a Japanese design but made by Teledyne in the US.

INteresting. I'm getting the sense that in general, "pulley type" regulators (like the e46 has) are just not as reliable as the gear-type ones found in older cars. Looks like Nissan finally "re-engineer" their Maxima regulators after the cars were out of warrany. Maybe BMW will do the same in a few years when they can get full retail price on replacementss. :tsk:

http://www.courtesyparts.com/secondtier_j30.html

[Kaz]

INteresting. I'm getting the sense that in general, "pulley type" regulators (like the e46 has) are just not as reliable as the gear-type ones found in older cars. Looks like there is some precedent for designing "re-engineered" window regs-- maybe i'll write to these guys and tell them to re-engineer the e46 regulators to make a quick buck:

http://www.courtesyparts.com/secondtier_j30.html

Well, it seems Japanese manufacturers are a bit more responsive to redesigning problematic parts. This just looks like a Nissan dealer selling an updated part, similar to the updated rear shock mounts that BMW puts out every few years for 3ers.

After the 6 that broke, I had the car for 4 more years with no more ever going bad.

FWIW, all 4 regulators on my E24 work fine, though I can't say if they're all original. But both fronts do go up and down at the same speed.

[bmw325]

Well, it seems Japanese manufacturers are a bit more responsive to redesigning problematic parts. This just looks like a Nissan dealer selling an updated part, similar to the updated rear shock mounts that BMW puts out every few years for 3ers.

After the 6 that broke, I had the car for 4 more years with no more ever going bad.

FWIW, all 4 regulators on my E24 work fine, though I can't say if they're all original. But both fronts do go up and down at the same speed.

yeah, the e24 has well-design regulators like this (from an e28)
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=4073&mospid=44988&prod=19820100&btnr=51_0364&hg=51&fg=10&x=221&y=76

The e46 has this POS crap:
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=45461&prod=20030100&btnr=51_3225&hg=51&fg=10&x=174&y=140

YOu can tell just buy looking at those black and white diagrams how stupid the design is compared w/ the older type. :tsk:

Looks like they first got this bad idea w/ the e38
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=GH83&mospid=45290&prod=20010200&btnr=51_2126&hg=51&fg=10&x=200&y=151

the e36 still had the good old type:
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=CB33&mospid=45257&prod=19950900&btnr=51_2055&hg=51&fg=10&x=204&y=154

Looks like 1997 build e31s were the last to use good regulators:
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=EG43&mospid=45098&prod=19970700&btnr=51_0417&hg=51&fg=10&x=184&y=88

I really do wonder why they ditched the e28 type of regulator-- it actually looks simpler, cheaper to build and more reliable. The cable-pulley mess looks convoluted and prone to failure.

[Kaz]

But most other modern cars have the newer cable type. I'm willing to bet that if BMW was still using the old type and had failures, you'd be complaining about how BMW is still using old-ass regulators.

[Magna]

yeah, the e24 has well-design regulators like this (from an e28)
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=4073&mospid=44988&prod=19820100&btnr=51_0364&hg=51&fg=10&x=221&y=76

The e46 has this POS crap:
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=45461&prod=20030100&btnr=51_3225&hg=51&fg=10&x=174&y=140

YOu can tell just buy looking at those black and white diagrams how stupid the design is compared w/ the older type. :tsk:

Looks like they first got this bad idea w/ the e38
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=GH83&mospid=45290&prod=20010200&btnr=51_2126&hg=51&fg=10&x=200&y=151

the e36 still had the good old type:
http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=CB33&mospid=45257&prod=19950900&btnr=51_2055&hg=51&fg=10&x=204&y=154

I really do wonder why they ditched the e28 type of regulator-- it actually looks simpler, cheaper to build and more reliable. The cable-pulley mess looks convoluted and prone to failure.

So the old way is using the "X" design. I thought that's what we have, but no.

[bmw325]

But most other modern cars have the newer cable type. I'm willing to bet that if BMW was still using the old type and had failures, you'd be complaining about how BMW is still using old-ass regulators.

True. But I bet we wouldn't be complaining as much because there wouldn't be as many failures. :) I really wonder why they changed? I guess the newer types are lighter, smaller and cheaper. Still, what stupid *ss design-- do you agree?

Atleast BMW does better w/ regulators than VW (although I think they finally re-designed some plastic part after years of this nonsense):
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=129486&page=2

[Kaz]

True. But I bet we wouldn't be complaining as much because there wouldn't be as many failures. :) I really wonder why they changed? I guess the newer types are lighter, smaller and cheaper. Still, what stupid *ss design-- do you agree?

I don't know if they fail less. Older Bimmers with the old regulators have emergency access holes to manually wind the windows (as well as the sunroof) open/closed when the regulators eat it.

[bmw325]

I don't know if they fail less. Older Bimmers with the old regulators have emergency access holes to manually wind the windows (as well as the sunroof) open/closed when the regulators eat it.

Ah-- but the simple fact that you can still wind the window means that regulator hasn't failed-- the electric drive migth've given out, but not the regulator. Even if we could manually wind our e46 regulators it woudln't do any good because:
-a clip that holds the window on has broken
-the cable has snapped
-the gear teeth are stripped
-some other plastic guide piece has snapped or worn down.

[bluskye]

Hmm, Well aftermarket can be just as bad if not worse then OEM..
I purchased/installed a different Water Pump with metal impeller for a 528i (The 5 has an absolutely shot OEM cooling system from pump/thermostat/radiator) ... it failed within one year, much worse then the OEM one. So... it's hard to say if the other manufacturers will take advantage of that fact and try to make money as well with cheaper components.

The improved radiators from Nissen have been holding up well according to the 5 owners, which i also purchased.

My advice with that kinda thing : Replace the non-improved components that are critical every 50K, and the non critical with OEm when needed.