Driving in Italy

[fcmaras]

Have you ever driven in Italy? My most awakening experiences were on the highway between Florence and Siena, where swerving was the name of the game. One would think that keeping an average size Fiat inside the right lane would not be too high of an expectation? It is. After 3-4 swervers, the passing included a gentle honk.

Anyway, wanted to pass this on:

http://users.pandora.be/stefdirrix/flash/italy.htm

Enjoy.

[emdreiSMG]

Interesting...
I didn't encounter swerving in our travels through Northern Italy. I did encounter outrageously fast driving (160 mph+) outside of Milan and some aggressive tailgaters at 115mph+ on the Ligurian Autostrada, however other drivers behaved themselves in general.

I thought the most harrowing encounters with other motorists were the scooters in smaller towns (motorini) who would swerve into oncoming traffic (me) with the attitude "you've gotta miss me."
They really pissed me off along with some bicyclists who exhibited the same behavior.

[fcmaras]

I must say that every else in Italy the driving was very decent, but on this Siena Highway, mamma mia. I should add that there was hardly any shoulder, but fairly big lanes.

/Franco

[LDV330i]

Interesting...
I didn't encounter swerving in our travels through Northern Italy. I did encounter outrageously fast driving (160 mph+) outside of Milan and some aggressive tailgaters at 115mph+ on the Ligurian Autostrada, however other drivers behaved themselves in general.

I thought the most harrowing encounters with other motorists were the scooters in smaller towns (motorini) who would swerve into oncoming traffic (me) with the attitude "you've gotta miss me."
They really pissed me off along with some bicyclists who exhibited the same behavior. What is strange is that speed limit in the majority of Autostradas is 85 mph. I drove 110 mph and was getting passed by smaller cars. When I got back to States I found a webpage that listed the fines for speeding in Italy. I discovered that driving at 110 mph on the autostradas I would have been subject to a 450 euros fine plus 12 points on my italian drivers license, :wow:but I never saw a single Polizia Stradale actually patrolling the highways during the 10 days I was there. I did see plenty of "speed limits radar enforced" signs all over the place. :dunno:

[emdreiSMG]

:wow:but I never saw a single Polizia Stradale actually patrolling the highways during the 10 days I was there. I did see plenty of "speed limits radar enforced" signs all over the place. :dunno:

Neither did I!! I couldn't believe it; in 9 days of driving not a single Polizia Stradale.

[fcmaras]

Didn't see anything in Italy either.
Got stopped for speeding in Slovenia, 74 km/h on a 50 km/h road barely starting out from the parking lot. The fine was reasonable at $25.

/F

[gdavis]

In the 3 weeks were toured through Germany and France, I also never saw police doing any aggressive speed control on the highways. In the US, speeding is usually treated as the #1 criminal offense in terms of the percentage of police effort dedicated to controlling it. Unfortunately, more serious crimes get less energy focused on them...

[jw]

Have you ever driven in Italy? My most awakening experiences were on the highway between Florence and Siena, where swerving was the name of the game. One would think that keeping an average size Fiat inside the right lane would not be too high of an expectation? It is. After 3-4 swervers, the passing included a gentle honk.

I had the pleasure of driving an Alfa-Romeo Duetto on those roads. Very enjoyable indeed!! But what was even more fun was cruising around Rome in a brand new Corvette Z06. We even had Ferraris stopping to let us in front of them. :thumbup:

[dbm]

Along the same lines as the first animation, by the same author:
http://www.infonegocio.com/xeron/bruno/yesno.swf

In real traffic you have to keep in mind that in Italy the only thing that matters is respect for the other drivers. It may not seem so at first, and it certainly means that traffic laws are often violated, but if you drive there for a while you'll start to appreciate this driving style.

[fcmaras]

Thanks for the link. Can't get enough of these scenarios.

I have been able to adapt to most style of drivers and traffic conditions, but not the swervers :tsk:

/Franco

[zrdster]

Have you ever driven in Italy? My most awakening experiences were on the highway between Florence and Siena, where swerving was the name of the game. One would think that keeping an average size Fiat inside the right lane would not be too high of an expectation? It is. After 3-4 swervers, the passing included a gentle honk.

Anyway, wanted to pass this on:

http://users.pandora.be/stefdirrix/flash/italy.htm

Enjoy.
I have my 2002 M-Roadster here with me in Sicily and I have to tell you that until you've driven in southern Italy, you ain't seen nuttin... I consider myself a fairly good driver and I can use the 315 ponies pretty well but I have been out-driven by Fiats on many occasions because I can't bring myself to pass in locations that the locals will pass... it's unbelievable...

[fcmaras]

Keep it that way! Better safe than sorry.

/Franco

[postoak]

I just returned from 3 weeks in Italy. My travel map stated 3 speed limits:

1) 3 lane autostradas with a full breakdown lane: 150 KPH

2) 2 lane autostradas wtih a full breakdown lane: 130 KPH

3) other highways: 110 KPH

So, that may explain the high speeds you saw. I know I hit 200 KPH briefly and cruised once for 30 minutes at 150 KPH. 120 - 140 is more the norm. I, too, saw no speed enforcement although I got pulled over at a roadblock. I never knew why but I'm guessing it was to check for stolen cars as we were close to Sicily at the time.

I love the disciplined way the Italians use the left lane. I only saw passing on the right a VERY few times. It's also fun to watch an Italian encounter an LLC. They WILL find a way to get that guy to move over!

[berford]

Have you ever driven in Italy? My most awakening experiences were on the highway between Florence and Siena, where swerving was the name of the game. One would think that keeping an average size Fiat inside the right lane would not be too high of an expectation? It is. After 3-4 swervers, the passing included a gentle honk.

Anyway, wanted to pass this on:

http://users.pandora.be/stefdirrix/flash/italy.htm

Enjoy.

That's cute, and all pretty accurate. But Bruno missed showing my "favorite" Italian experience--I was stopped at a red light in Rome when a car pulled up behind me and started honking the horn, trying to get me to go through the intersection on red. I just sat there (not wanting to view the inside of an Italian jail--if there is such a thing), and he backed up and went around me through the interection. The light was still red when he finished the maneuver.

[Hoya Saxa]

Ahhh ... driving in Italy. What fond memories, like Bellagio. My wife and I did a couple of nights at the Villa Serbelloni in Bellagio. I couldn't believe my eyes when the NAV told us to drive right down the center of what looked like a pedestrian area (photo below). Half way through, a bunch of tourists jumped out in front of me and started taking photos. At that point, I thought I had completely blown it and threw it into reverse to begin backing up the lane. Fortunately, a shopkeeper saw what I was beginning to do and told me "it's okay to run them over. Your hotel is that way."

Though I did not run them over, I did come close ...

[Spectre]

Ahhh ... driving in Italy. What fond memories, like Bellagio. My wife and I did a couple of nights at the Villa Serbelloni in Bellagio. I couldn't believe my eyes when the NAV told us to drive right down the center of what looked like a pedestrian area (photo below). Half way through, a bunch of tourists jumped out in front of me and started taking photos. At that point, I thought I had completely blown it and threw it into reverse to begin backing up the lane. Fortunately, a shopkeeper saw what I was beginning to do and told me "it's okay to run them over. Your hotel is that way."

Though I did not run them over, I did come close ...Yeah, the Nav can leave you wondering at times. Try using it in the "pedestrian" part of Salzburg. :rolleyes: :D

[emdreiSMG]

I just returned from 3 weeks in Italy. My travel map stated 3 speed limits:

1) 3 lane autostradas with a full breakdown lane: 150 KPH

2) 2 lane autostradas wtih a full breakdown lane: 130 KPH

3) other highways: 110 KPH

So, that may explain the high speeds you saw. I know I hit 200 KPH briefly and cruised once for 30 minutes at 150 KPH. 120 - 140 is more the norm. I, too, saw no speed enforcement although I got pulled over at a roadblock. I never knew why but I'm guessing it was to check for stolen cars as we were close to Sicily at the time.

I love the disciplined way the Italians use the left lane. I only saw passing on the right a VERY few times. It's also fun to watch an Italian encounter an LLC. They WILL find a way to get that guy to move over!

How about the speeds I saw...
1.) A sportbike going 300 kph outside of Milan
2.)An Audi S4 avant going about 280 kph!!!

WOW! At least both were travelling in the Left lane. I was in the center lane going 180 kph at the time.

[fcmaras]

Aah, Salzburg.

We had the fortune to park very centrally in Salzburg on the very day that a Vintage Car Rally was scheduled. It was really fun studying the old cars before the race. :) But not so fun when the parking attendant told us that we were stranded for another 2-3 hours, because we (thought we) were inside the race loop. :( Our plan was to drive towards Zell Am See in search of a Hotel. A bit disappointed we settled on watching the race instead. Until, someone more disgruntled than us collected a police, who then asked the parking attendant to open the gate. This is when we found out about the streets in the center of Salzburg and how useful it is to have mirrors that can fold.

It must have been quite a scene, with the wife directing me and the car through the some 70" narrow openings and bikes waiting impatiently to pass.

I apologize for not having any pictures....

/Franco

[Spectre]

It must have been quite a scene, with the wife directing me and the car through the some 70" narrow openings and bikes waiting impatiently to pass.
I know what you mean about those narrow openings. :eeps: It's preferable to park in the central lot under the mountain and schlep things into the pedestrian areas. So much easier to retrieve the car.

[fcmaras]

I'll remember that for my next ED trip :D

/Franco

[dbm]

That's cute, and all pretty accurate. But Bruno missed showing my "favorite" Italian experience--I was stopped at a red light in Rome when a car pulled up behind me and started honking the horn, trying to get me to go through the intersection on red. I just sat there (not wanting to view the inside of an Italian jail--if there is such a thing), and he backed up and went around me through the interection. The light was still red when he finished the maneuver.

You are lucky! Many years back my dad actually got hit from behind in the same situation. The guy did admit guilt and apologized, but he really was confused as to why my dad would stop at a red light when nobody was coming through green on the other side.

[berford]

You are lucky! Many years back my dad actually got hit from behind in the same situation. The guy did admit guilt and apologized, but he really was confused as to why my dad would stop at a red light when nobody was coming through green on the other side.

Funny and sad, isn't it.

[jerrykdc]

When I was in Italy last summer my biggest concern was finding premium gasoline. There was only one grade available on the Autostrada and I was told that Shell was the only company offering premium. I know it shouldn't happen but I swear that my car was knocking after I filled it up with the stuff they sell on the Autostrada.

[emdreiSMG]

When I was in Italy last summer my biggest concern was finding premium gasoline. There was only one grade available on the Autostrada and I was told that Shell was the only company offering premium. I know it shouldn't happen but I swear that my car was knocking after I filled it up with the stuff they sell on the Autostrada.
That's odd. I saw 98 Oct all over the Autostrada. It was generally .05 Euros/l more than regular. Regular gas is 95 Octane, which is much higher than our premium out here in Cali.
I have heard that they calculate it differently in Europe, but the calculations I saw still put European "95" at the octane level of US "93" or so.

[RayC1]

Some interesting points in this thread.

1. Is there an expert that can enlighten us on the octane question? I'm just back from Europe and used the 93 octane most of the time (and often it was the only grade available). I didn't hear or feel any bad effects, but I do think that the US calculation is different and 93 may not be the 93 we expect.

2. The Nav system: worked just fine to take us into Salzburg on a Sunday night and park very centrally (might have been just on the edge of a bus stop...). We stayed in a B&B just outside and the next day parked under the mountain which is absolutely the best thing to do. Now, you haven't lived until to try to reach the Duomo in Florence (our hotel was right on the square) using the nav system. I'm sure that if you drive right past the "pedestrian only" signs it might work, but we had no courage to do that and so reprogrammed for our designated parking garage and just carried our bags for 20 mins or so. Coming back to the car we had figured out the bus system! In general the nav system was a complete godsend for in-town driving, but you had to keep your eye on it. In Nice it sent us onto a highway just to do a U turn, expecting of course 90 kph speeds but not realizing (neither did we) that the 400 yard stretch was at a standstill...

3. Vespas/Mopeds: Of course they drive like total maniacs but never seem to hit anyone. In lots of city driving I was often surprised, but never worried about a collision.

4. Speed: There was more attention to the speed limits than I would have thought. (But I was never south of Florence). Without doubt, the fatest drivers were those in Audis. Occasional Maseratis, Ferraris etc were circumspect. At the pick up center, the rep told us that he thought the re was one country (France or Italy?) where they use your toll ticket to calculate your average speed and tack on a fine to your toll, so I was kind of nervous about that and didn't cruise for long periods at >130 kph. Anyone ever heard of that?

Ray

[LDV330i]

Some interesting points in this thread.

1. Is there an expert that can enlighten us on the octane question? I'm just back from Europe and used the 93 octane most of the time (and often it was the only grade available). I didn't hear or feel any bad effects, but I do think that the US calculation is different and 93 may not be the 93 we expect. OCTANE is rated in Research Octane Numbers (RON), Motor Octane Numbers (MON), and Pump Octane Numbers (R+M/2). Pump Octane numbers are what you see on the yellow decal on the pumps at the gas stations and represents an average of the two. In Europe the posted octane rating is base on the RON number.. When I took delivery of my car I was told to put SUPER gasoline. I think I should have asked for further clairification SuperPlus gasoline has RON rating of 98, If that was sold in the States it would be listed as 93 (per PON). EuroSuper has a RON rating of 95 with a US equivalent of 90. BMW recommends a minimum of 91 AKI (Antiknock Index =PON). My car appears to have dealt well with EuroSuper gasoline




4. Speed: There was more attention to the speed limits than I would have thought. (But I was never south of Florence). Without doubt, the fatest drivers were those in Audis. Occasional Maseratis, Ferraris etc were circumspect. At the pick up center, the rep told us that he thought the re was one country (France or Italy?) where they use your toll ticket to calculate your average speed and tack on a fine to your toll, so I was kind of nervous about that and didn't cruise for long periods at >130 kph. Anyone ever heard of that?

Ray The speed limit on the Autostradas I was on was 115 kph. I was normally doing 180 kph (about 110 mph) and I was constantly getting passed. :(

I do not think they use the Autostradas toll tickets to determine speed. Drove non-stop from Genoa to the French border with a speed average in excess of 160 kph and nothing was said.:)