Successful Projector Z Light Install ?

[dwaynemosley]

Has anyone on this board been able to successfully install the Projector Z light kit that Umnitza is selling? I know there are others on here that purchased them.

I'm sitting on a set of these light upgrades that I paid a deposit for last year, and paid for in full upon Umnitza's request in mid-January. I still cannot install them. V2 of the required brackets came out with the immediate notification to not use them because of problems. Apparently the latest revision of brackets are a must have, and which I don't have, with zero idea of when them I will have. Has anyone received the V3 brackets as promised on Bimmerforums?

I contacted them about a refund. Of course, should I choose to return them, they want to penalize me financially because I want what I paid for as advertised. They indicate that I will lose my deposit for believing their evangelism and trusting their story about the ability to buy and receive a kit that would work as described. They have honorably chosen not to charge me a 15% restocking fee, but the non-refund of the deposit is equal to 15%.

Someone here share a success story about these with me. All I can find in Bimmerforums are people who have taken it upon themselves to help re-engineer the product to attain fitment in their cars. If I'm mistaken about general installation success, then I'm willing to try to install them. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic.

What say you?
Dwayne

[zoran]

I tried installing them after I received the V1 brackets, but didn't work. As soon as V2 brackets came out, someone discovered a problem, and they came up with V3 brackets. I did receive all three versions, but apparently now there is an issue with aimers being too long i think. Jim is working on a fix. I'm afraid to even attempt to try the installation with V3 brackets until someone confirms at least a few successful installs. Frustrating....

[phrider]

You should have received a V3 bracket -- try both Jim Powell at Apexcone.com and Matt at Umnitza. Jim's in the US now -- if you call soon.

If you are able to do the install without damaging the stock aimers in your headlight, you should be able to do this install now. The stock aimers failed in some V1 bracket installs because of clearance differences between headlight assemblies and the brittle plastic on the stock lower Hella aiming post. (The problem is not the ProjectorZ here, it's the poor plastic on the stock headlight aimer post. I bought a set of new Z3 headlights, and one of the stock Hella aimer posts arrived already broken.)

The replacement aimers are something that Jim Powell sought to help fix a problem with stock parts. When you fiddle with the headlights, you are more likely to damage this brittle part -- so these replacement aimers are a "backup" to help those whose stock parts fail.

Attached is a photo of 2 of the stock Hella aimers taken off of junkyard partial headlights (note that the lock tab and the outside grip tabs are broken on the bad one -- because the plastic is so brittle). One disintegrated when I touched it. The other came out successfully when I lubricated the rubber gasket with gummipflege and heated the assembly before removing it. By the way, SUBJECT TO CHECK IN EACH CASE, on the left headlight this aimer is removed clockwise, and on the right headlight this aimer is removed counter-clockwise. Check for yourself in each case, please.

NOTE: you don't need to remove these bottom aimers to do the ProjectorZ install. You want to stress these as little as possible because the plastic disintegrates with heat and/or age. Yours may already be broken.

PS: I had one of the first problematic V1 installs (others went together just fine, it seems). I did some shimming changes, and mine is OK with a modified V1 bracket and one re-glued aimer. I have not attempted the V3 bracket change -- in part because those replacement aimers were not available. As you can see by my photo, however, I have harvested a couple aimers from the local BMW junkyard.

PPS: You can see further discussion here http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2589740#post2589740
.

[tigermon]

I did an install with version 2 brackets. I had to grind down the corners like on the version 3 though. As for the lower post, I epoxied the crap out of it to make it hold. Over all I must have removed and installed the units about 6-7 times till I was reasonably satisfied with the aiming. However, I recently retro'd some D2s capsules into the units and now it won't aim quite high enough. Guess I'll be taking them apart again!

[Randy Forbes]

I know of one person that worked on them long enough to have excellent results.

I just emailed him and I'm hoping that he weighs in here soon...

In the meantime, go here (http://www.rfdm.com/) and take a look under "current projects" and you'll see the link for the projector Z install.

A lot of other stuff there too (and more coming all the time).

[phrider]

In the meantime, go here (http://www.rfdm.com/) and take a look under "current projects" and you'll see the link for the projector Z install.DWM's work was key in getting this mod functional -- although the original seemed to work OK in some versions of the otherwise identical headlight. Not mine, though -- it required tweaking.

And I haven't messed with version 3 because version 1 (modified) is working OK at the moment.
.

[viper501]

Dwayne,

Sent you a P.M.

[dwm]

I know of one person that worked on them long enough to have excellent results.

I just emailed him and I'm hoping that he weighs in here soon...

I guess that would be me.

I'm running V1 brackets. I had to make some (many) modifications. I never got around to installing the V2 brackets; my V2 brackets were one of the first sets, and don't have final plating. More importantly, the PEM nuts were different which would've meant me repeating much of what I did for V1 brackets. I put a lot of time in to make the V1 brackets usable. I've moved on to other priorities and basically forgotten about them. Which I guess means they're working fine... a lot of my driving is at night.

Sadly, with the list of projects I had lined up for warm weather, I haven't kept up with the latest version of brackets. I got left with the feeling that any given installation might require considerable tweaking to get the lights to the point where the install is what I find acceptable on my car, which means a lot of patience if you're as picky as I am about something as important as headlights. And potentially lots of downtime; I started mine while there was still snow and hence the car was laid up anyway.

I didn't have any issues with lower post fragility, unlike some others. Breaking that post or its tabs complicates things.

If I were going to do this again, I'd order a second set of headlights in which to do the installation. It was far from a weekend's worth of work to get them to the point where I was happy with them.

I think the product is misrepresented. I have no beef with Jim Powell, but Matt has long lost all credibility with me (Umnitza is unlikely to see any repeat business from me). Matt's been saying that they fit correctly all along (back to V1), but I know better from my own installation. It took me a month to finish, working on them almost every free night I had. Refitment takes a while, and you can't really aim them when they're not on the car. Lots of back and forth, lots of dremel work, and I made custom PTFE shims as well as Delrin covers for the back of the high beams. Of course, in my case, the really painful part was dealing with the DDEs; they're very fragile which means headlight disassembly and reassembly requires considerable care. Plus the inverters for the DDE are junk IMHO, I replaced them with some of my own that have better cases (non-conductive, with real 2-pin sockets for all connections). YMMV.

If you don't have the DDE, and can spare a good chunk of downtime, they're doable if you're willing to dig in and make your own shims, trim the V2 frames if needed, etc. I'd actually offer to do them for you if you want to send a set of headlights here, though I realize that's not very practical or cost-effective.

I do recall the deposit being non-refundable, but I think it's lame that Umnitza doesn't step up and refund you in full. It's still a beta product IMHO; it doesn't always fit, and it's incomplete (nothing provided to cover the holes left behind the high beams).

[Ron Stygar]

I think the product is misrepresented. I have no beef with Jim Powell, but Matt has long lost all credibility with me (Umnitza is unlikely to see any repeat business from me). Matt's been saying that they fit correctly all along (back to V1), but I know better from my own installation. It took me a month to finish, working on them almost every free night I had. Refitment takes a while, and you can't really aim them when they're not on the car. Lots of back and forth, lots of dremel work, and I made custom PTFE shims as well as Delrin covers for the back of the high beams. Of course, in my case, the really painful part was dealing with the DDEs; they're very fragile which means headlight disassembly and reassembly requires considerable care. Plus the inverters for the DDE are junk IMHO, I replaced them with some of my own that have better cases (non-conductive, with real 2-pin sockets for all connections). YMMV.

If you don't have the DDE, and can spare a good chunk of downtime, they're doable if you're willing to dig in and make your own shims, trim the V2 frames if needed, etc.
I do recall the deposit being non-refundable, but I think it's lame that Umnitza doesn't step up and refund you in full. It's still a beta product IMHO; it doesn't always fit, and it's incomplete (nothing provided to cover the holes left behind the high beams).
I agree.

[kem]

This is dissappointing for me. Im extremly happy with my m coupe in everyway except for the lighting, HIDs is a must for me, especially since my last car had them. I had the umnitza angel eyes too (on a VW GTI) but these are not crucial for me. I wanted to do HIDs right this time and get projectors, but this looks to be much more then I want to take on.

Is maybe HID retrofit into the stock reflectors the way to go? Hows the beam pattern on the stock lights? Do they spread the beam way too much for HIDs?

On my VW I had european spec light housings which had a better beam pattern then the NA ones and were also made of glass which is better for HIDs. Are the euro-spec bmw lights any better?

[dwm]

This is dissappointing for me. Im extremly happy with my m coupe in everyway except for the lighting, HIDs is a must for me, especially since my last car had them. I had the umnitza angel eyes too (on a VW GTI) but these are not crucial for me. I wanted to do HIDs right this time and get projectors, but this looks to be much more then I want to take on.

Is maybe HID retrofit into the stock reflectors the way to go? Hows the beam pattern on the stock lights? Do they spread the beam way too much for HIDs?



FWIW, I went from HID bulbs in the stock reflectors to the ProjectorZ. World of difference, it just wasn't easy getting the ProjectorZ installed to my liking.

The stock reflectors are obviously inferior to an OEM HID projector. They aren't much better with HID bulbs. Better color spectrum, but the beam pattern is a little, well, splotchy. That's typical of most HID retrofits; bulb doesn't match the reflector or projector (which was designed around a particular filament bulb). Sometimes you get lucky on beam pattern. To me, HID bulbs in the Z3 stock reflectors is a wash functionally. Cosmetics is subjective, I prefer HID spectrum on the roadster. But I definitely don't miss having HID bulbs in the stock reflectors; the Hella projector units in the ProjectorZ are much nicer than that setup in terms of throwing light on the road where it matters.

I also really like the bezels Jim designed. It's just a difficult install, and I don't think anyone really knows how many revisions of headlights BMW has done w/o changing the part numbers. It looks like the answer is 2 or greater. That's why I don't expect to see ProjectorZ on the market much longer unless Jim bites the bullet and assembles them with OEM headlight enclosures (making it a true DIY install for any buyer that can handle a nut driver). It's only a one-size-fits-all product if you don't decimate further than BMW does. BMW sells the headlight as a unit, not as parts. Since few people take their headlights apart out of curiosity :), there's not a lot of research out there to nail down the internal changes. I can't even be sure BMW knows; I'd be surprised if the headlights weren't completely outsourced.

I appreciate what Jim did for the hardcore DIYers, I just don't think it makes 'product' at this point in time.

[eVal]

This is dissappointing for me. Im extremly happy with my m coupe in everyway except for the lighting, HIDs is a must for me, especially since my last car had them. I had the umnitza angel eyes too (on a VW GTI) but these are not crucial for me. I wanted to do HIDs right this time and get projectors, but this looks to be much more then I want to take on.

Is maybe HID retrofit into the stock reflectors the way to go? Hows the beam pattern on the stock lights? Do they spread the beam way too much for HIDs?

On my VW I had european spec light housings which had a better beam pattern then the NA ones and were also made of glass which is better for HIDs. Are the euro-spec bmw lights any better?

There is another DIY option - at least one person has retrofitted BMW projectors in with great success. From what I have seen they look stock and is probably the best choice IMHO (since I like the OEM look).

I did a quick search and found one, if you search more I'm sure you can find out all about it -

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63345&highlight=projectors

cheers

PS: I know how you feel about HIDs, i have them on my other car and like them as well, but when I really get out and look at my car at night the stock lights look very bright. I don't know if it varies car to car tho. You might want to try just replacing the bulbs first, if you like it you'll save a lot of $$ :)

I have been using the Supreme Power Parts bulbs and like them - SPP backs up their products well too - www.supremepowerparts.com

[phrider]

I also really like the bezels Jim designed. It's just a difficult install, and I don't think anyone really knows how many revisions of headlights BMW has done w/o changing the part numbers. It looks like the answer is 2 or greater. I agree on the multiple revisions without part number changes. And there are subtle changes in even these brittle plastic aimers (maybe Hella uses multiple aimer lengths to adjust for manufacturing differences).

...unless Jim bites the bullet and assembles them with OEM headlight enclosures (making it a true DIY install for any buyer that can handle a nut driver). I think he'll still arrange that for those that ask, but the best pricing on a pair of OEM shells is still almost $400, a substantial bump in cost. But that is still the way to go unless you want a DIY project rather than a product.

I appreciate what Jim did for the hardcore DIYers, ....I agree here, too. With these aimers, he's tried to get a fix to a problem "stock" part, not one of his -- and having witnessed the challenges of getting the right spec part created, he cannot be making any money on this even if was charging nothing for his time.

[phrider]

There is another DIY option - ..................

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63345&highlight=projectors

This is a DIY that's at least as tough as the ProjectorZ.

The low beam lense cover must be harvested from a junkyard because (as far as I know) it is not available as a separate part.

And you must cut and glue the interior light bracket -- not for the faint of heart. You'll become a Dremel and glue expert.

Then there are those pesky bottom aimers. I'd guess 50% or more will break.

PS: This is not to "rain on the parade" -- it's just any attempt to mess with the OEM headlights will encounter the same challenges as the ProjectorZ: small but important dimensional changes in the lights without any part number changes; the brittle plastic on the bottom aimer; the lack of internal replacement parts; and the need to reheat the lights for every tweak (or strip the sealant like DWM did).

The real "mass market" solution is an aftermarket headlight assembly -- but no one has committed to do that yet.

So, now and maybe forever, we're left with a moderately complex DIY. It gives great light output (as shown in photo). And with bracket version 3, many might be able to do this in a long day (I'm staying with my tweaked version 1 for the time being). But some will encounter install challenges.

So enlist help from those that have done it before (DWM's site http://www.rfdm.com/ is a great resource, although I'm far from his DIY level). Take it slowly, especially for the headlight heating/openning and glue setting. And don't do it when you MUST have the car for transport the next day.

[loki]

Install problems with a JP product? Sounds like status quo to me. :rolleyes:

[Ben Carufel]

Install problems with a JP product? Sounds like status quo to me. :rolleyes:

Oh noes!!!1

Do I sense some hostility here?

[phrider]

The real "mass market" solution is an aftermarket headlight assembly -- but no one has committed to do that yet. Hmmm. Something may be on the way.....

Umnitza: "we are coming out with a full assembly soon"
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/z3/5469118.html