View Full Version : ragtop compartment plugs for rebound adjuster holes
I know a lot of us roadster owners have done various things to deal with covering the holes we cut in the ragtop compartment liner to get to our rebound adjustment on aftermarket shocks. Here's my solution, for what it's worth. I will note that the cap looks almost exactly like the plugs used to hold the liner to the sheetmetal. Other than difference in diameter, once powdercoated in black with gloss reducer, you'd be hard pressed to see the difference.
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/diagrams/ragtopLinerCaps.gif">
The flanged MDS-filled nylon bearing is siliconed to the washer on top of the RSM bushing. It holds really well, but I know I'll have no trouble tearing it off when necessary. This bearing is 1" I.D., 1.25" O.D., 1.5" long and the flange is 1.5" diameter and .1875" thick. I cut the length down to 1.25", which puts the top of the flange just barely above the rebound adjuster on my KW V3 shocks. This bearing is <a href="http://www.mcmaster.com">McMaster-Carr</a> P/N 6294K72.
Right now, I've got <a href="http://www.mcmaster.com">McMaster-Carr</a> P/N 9563K47 as the cap (it's a finishing plug, stamped steel, nickel-plated). It looks great, but I was very picky about cutting the holes in my liner and I'm not really confident about these holding themselves in the MDS-filled nylon bearing. So I ordered slightly larger plugs, <a href="http://www.mcmaster.com">McMaster-Carr</a> P/N 9563K85 (1-5/16" diameter head). I'll cut the prongs off of these and JB Weld them to a 1" O.D. bearing (<a href="http://www.mcmaster.com">McMaster-Carr</a> P/N 6294K56) after I powdercoat the top. These bearings are 1/2" long, I expect to cut 1/8" or so off their length. The larger diameter of the plugs (trimmed down to just being caps) will permit pretty big goofs in locating the holes in the liner.
The finishing plugs come in packs of 25. I only need 8 of them (2 pairs each for myself and a friend). The rest will be up for grabs free at HC, probably all powdercoated black semigloss unless you ask me now for something different. I won't have extra bearings, since those can be bought one at a time and are more expensive (the flanged ones are $5.55 each).
My objectives here were to absolutely prevent the rebound adjuster from poking at my liner and ragtop, have the caps look like they're supposed to be there, but let me easily get at the rebound adjuster. This turned out to be the perfect solution, the bearing diameter is perfect.
Here's a picture. Note this plug was powdercoated with Caswell's "Light Gray", which I won't be using. Almost looks white on the ragtop liner, but part of that is the lousy picture. I'm without the Canon EOS for another 10 days or so, this picture was taken with the barely-working old point-and-shoot which hates short focal distances and has poor exposure control.
Here's the parts, pretty simple. These are for Randy, so the flanged bearing is still at full length (he can mill it to the length he actually needs). I cut mine to 1.25" for the KW's, which is perfect. Cutting the prongs off the plug (turning it into a cap) was trivial with the Dremel and a heavy-duty cutting wheel. After powdercoating the caps in Black Magic with (not enough) gloss reducer, I JB Weld'ed it to the 1/2" long 1" O.D. bearing. The bearing with cap slides into the flanged end of the flanged bearing. The whole flanged bearing goes under the ragtop compartment liner as shown in the diagram I posted earlier, this is basically the whole mod in terms of preventing the rebound adjuster from damaging the liner or ragtop. The only thing visible when done is the powdercoated top of the cap.
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/medium/pdrm0039.jpg">
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/0042.jpg">
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/0044.jpg">
Figuring out what I wanted to do here was the hard part, the rest was trivial. If the JB Weld holds up (it's still curing), I'll post pictures tomorrow of them in the car.
Randy Forbes
07-30-2004, 05:27 AM
Looks good Daniel :thumbup:
That's certainly better than anything I've seen so far (I've just been keeping a folded towel over each adjuster tab).
It'll be nice to finally get that problem solved!
The black is too black, when I get around to it I'll buy some Eastwood 'Chassis Black' powder and make more caps (easy, and quick except for waiting for the JB Weld to cure).
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/medium/0051.jpg">
Randy Forbes
07-30-2004, 03:41 PM
Too shiny or not, that's a very elegant solution.
Can we expect that the powder coating will hold up well with the top rubbing on it?
And again, the primary objective is to protect the top from the tabs :thumbup:
Mpire
07-30-2004, 04:53 PM
Someone figure out how to do this on a coupe....
Too shiny or not, that's a very elegant solution.
Can we expect that the powder coating will hold up well with the top rubbing on it?
It should last a good long while, but we won't know for sure until we've used them for a while. I'll be doing two to three coats of black once I find one that matches a little better (I think the 'Chassis Black' will, but it's low on my list of priorities before HC). The Black Magic powder is weatherable, and UV-stable.
You have 2 pairs coming, so I don't think you need to worry about powder wearh-through for a good long while (HC 2007? :)). If one set has the powder wear through, I'll make more. Total of $4.17 for a new pair (pair of plugs turned into caps plus a pair of the inner bearings), not counting powder, JB Weld or shipping. I'm sure I'll be making more before you have wear issues, since I'll eventually want to try Chassis Black on them.
Right now I have lots of caps (6 pairs coated, 13 caps still in the bag), but no spare inner bearings once I've done yours and mine. I need 2 pairs for my absent-mindedness (it'd be just like me to put one in my pocket and have it wind up god-or-wife-only-knows-where :)).
My first pair is in on both sides, looks good. Attached picture is the driver's side.
Someone figure out how to do this on a coupe....
What's above the RSM in the coupe? Carpet or something else?
I've just now seen this picture:
<img src="http://www.fastjam.com/mcoupe/rsm/pside2.jpg">
So there's plastic and carpet, yes? Looks like you could do the same thing I did for the roadster, you just have to cut through the plastic too. Might need a different bearing length or diameter depending on the shock. The KW nut is a 17mm, I used the 1." I.D. flanged bearing thinking I might be able to get an open-back socket down in there plus a Double-D tool and hence never have to remove the bearing from the washer. Since the open-back socket wrench hasn't arrived yet and won't for a couple of weeks, I have no idea at this point. But Koni and Bilstein nuts are bigger, yes? 21mm or 22mm?
Or, is it just the backed carpet like the stuff in the roadster trunk? In that case, something like I did should work fine and be relatively easy. Longer inner bearing to get through the carpet (say .75" instead of .5"), otherwise the same deal. Coupe wouldn't need the flange on the support bearing, that could be a plain bearing (cheaper).
It's pretty easy to lift the half of the ragtop compartment liner in the roadster to access the RSMs. Seeing people cut big sqaures out of the carpet in the coupe, I assume it's difficult to get those pieces of carpet in and out?
Mpire
07-30-2004, 08:00 PM
Yeah, there is that sound proofing and then the fender liners in the trunk. Carpet on hard plastic...
I was thinking I would remove the shock and then drill up through the carpet into the passenger compartment, then use the hole as a guide and use a hole saw on the opposite side and then plug wiht a cap. Removing the fender liners is just too darn much trouble...
Yeah, there is that sound proofing and then the fender liners in the trunk. Carpet on hard plastic...
I was thinking I would remove the shock and then drill up through the carpet into the passenger compartment, then use the hole as a guide and use a hole saw on the opposite side and then plug wiht a cap. Removing the fender liners is just too darn much trouble...
If you only want access to the rebound adjuster, a finishing plug should work fine. In the roadster, you have to worry about the ragtop resting on the top of the rebound adjuster when the top is down, hence the flanged bearing trick.
The hard part in your case would be finding a small finishing plug that will handle the thickness of the carpet plus the hard plastic?
I have a bunch of the plugs that are for 1" I.D. holes, panel thickness .125-.156". They might work fine, or they might not. They're just like the ones I cut the prongs off for my roadster solution, just a little smaller in diameter. Send me your snail mail address and I'll send you 4 of them. Also, my local ACE hardware has them in this size, if you're in a hurry and have a decent hardware store nearby. These were McMaster-Carr P/N 9563K47
Before and after pics of the top of one of my RSMs. I'm amazed they came out so similar in size; first was taken 9 days ago with the Canon EOS, the second tonight with the point-and-shoot. Neither was rescaled, jusr cropped.
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/RogueRSM/medium/2625.jpg">
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/0065.jpg">
That's just black RTV silicone holding the flanged bearing to the washer on the RSM bushing. I chewed up the top inside edge of the flanged bearing a little bit when cutting the hole in the ragtop liner. Inconsequential since it's all covered by the liner and cap.
The KW V3 rebound adjuster takes the same size tool as the Koni small tab, but I've no idea how their heights compare. It's 1.25" from the top of my washer to the top of the rebound adjuster.
Those are Rogue RSMs and reinforcement plates (I powdercoated the latter, don't be confused by the black color).
Other side, with the ragtop liner installed and the cap off. Lousy picture, sorry. My hole isn't pretty on the edges, but it's completely covered with the cap. It is also exactly the right size, it just doesn't quite look that way in this picture because the liner wants to lift a tiny bit off of the bearing. I think this means the height of the flanged bearing is slightly less than the rubber bumpers on the stock rear shock mounts. Or not, since the ragtop compartment liner is quite flexible and not an exacting fit.
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/Suspension/pics/KWCoilovers/medium/0062.jpg">
Brent,
<a href="http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1292679">
This</a> is ACE's version of the plugs I was talking about. I had a pair, they appeared to be the same as the ones from McMaster-Carr but you can buy less than 25 and if from the local store, return them if they won't work. I think the only reason they wouldn't work would be depth; the prongs might not be long enough to grab on the back of the hard plastic.
The ones I have are nickel-plated, which would look hideous. What color is the carpet? Always black (I'm so coupe-clueless it's scary :))?
TeamM3
07-31-2004, 12:21 AM
Yeah, there is that sound proofing and then the fender liners in the trunk. Carpet on hard plastic...
I was thinking I would remove the shock and then drill up through the carpet into the passenger compartment, then use the hole as a guide and use a hole saw on the opposite side and then plug wiht a cap. Removing the fender liners is just too darn much trouble...
:thumbup: :stupid:
A hole saw might be scary to use to cut through the carpet; if it grabs, it could mean buying new carpet or making a much bigger hole than you intended.
You might be able to find the right spot from above by just using a stud finder. That is, if the top of the rebound adjuster is close to the plastic. Worth trying to see if you get a sensible reading, cheap swinging magnet type. I would almost bet the farm you could find the right spot just holding a strong small-diameter magnet above once the shock is installed. Assuming the rebound adjuster has some iron in it, which is a pretty good bet. :)
Mpire
07-31-2004, 09:49 AM
Ok, dumb question, but how is the suspension on full soft? I have that drive to HC and I want it to be smooth, but then again, I have that driving school at the factory course, so I would want it harder then, right?
Ok, dumb question, but how is the suspension on full soft? I have that drive to HC and I want it to be smooth, but then again, I have that driving school at the factory course, so I would want it harder then, right?
Not a dumb question, to my knowledge not many people are running KW V3 on these cars (most go the Ground Control route or H&R/Koni or...). It's streetable on full soft in Michigan, but I'm admittedly biased toward a firm ride. It's a lot firmer than stock (understatement), no matter where the adjusters are set. It's a joy on smooth roads, of course.
I would not have gone this route if this car was a daily commuter; I'd have gone with sport springs and probably single-adjustable Konis. That has more to do with Michigan road quality than the springs and dampers. If I lived in Florida, I'd have gone this route even if the car was a daily commuter. Florida roads are much better than up here where we get a zillion freeze/thaw cycles each year that hasten road destruction.
They're not coming off my car, I'm really happy with it overall. Since I live on a dirt road, I'm thrilled with the stainless steel strut housings; spray 'em off and they look like new again. Just need to get the KMACs in and get myself down to Randy and Sue's for an alignment.
Still haven't made up my mind about swaybars. In part because I don't have time before Homecoming, and in part because I'm still hoping H&R will make a fitment for our cars so I have one more option. As long as the stock swaybar mounts don't fail (knock on wood), I'm good through Homecoming.
Forgot to mention that I run 31.5 PSI on all corners on the street, with the Pilot Sports. No ill consequences of doing that other than slower steering response; my shoulder wear looks fine and I've been running in that range on local roads since I bought the car. With the stock suspension and the stock rear subframe bushings, I rarely felt the tires versus the suspension and subframe wiggle, mostly at the limit (near full spring compression). That's obviously not the case now, which to me is a very good thing.
No idea how the KW V3 would be in a coupe, nor if KW valves the coupe fitment differently in the rear (I doubt it). I suspect the springs are the same, they're progressive in the rear.
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