New rims for the ZHP?

[blueguydotcom]

New rims for the ZHP?

http://members.tccoa.com/liquidcougar/blingbling.jpg

:eek:

[kurichan]

New rims for the ZHP?

http://members.tccoa.com/liquidcougar/blingbling.jpg

:eek:I like them, but they look like they might be a bit heavy...

[gfeiner]

:thumbdwn:

[HW]

they look like they will more than strip off the extra 10hp and then some.

[RSPDiver]

Nonsense! Can't slow the ZHP!

;)

[HW]

Nonsense! Can't slow the ZHP!

;)

is that because the "ZHP HP" is even bigger than the so-called "BMW HP" :rolleyes: :dunno:

[RSPDiver]

is that because the "ZHP HP" is even bigger than the so-called "BMW HP" :rolleyes: :dunno:
:stickpoke :wave:

[ChosenGSR]

:stickpoke :wave:

zhp can never looooose :eek:

[HW]

zhp can never looooose :eek:

how about against a turboed rsx? :dunno: :eeps: would you put $80 on it?

[Fast Bob]

YO Dog!....Dem wheels is da BOMB! (nice aero body work on the s#it-wagon, too!)

Regards,
Bob

[schreck]

Hey MR HW who cares about some turboed ricer. At least we're not pathetic douche bags like the driver of that rsx. Nice try mr race driver of canada. Nobody cares. : :)

[allaboutme]

They look okay... Not shiny enough for me

[HW]

Hey MR HW who cares about some turboed ricer. At least we're not pathetic douche bags like the driver of that rsx. Nice try mr race driver of canada. Nobody cares. : :)


ooo ... you don't own a blue m3 by any chance? :eeps:

[RSPDiver]

Turbo RSX can't hang with MaD gErMaN pOwAh!!! LOL

[doeboy]

New rims for the ZHP?

http://members.tccoa.com/liquidcougar/blingbling.jpg

:eek:


Does the face spin too? :eek:

[HW]

Does the face spin too? :eek:

it looks like it would. :dunno:

[RSPDiver]

Can't possibly be heavier than the ZHP wheels. :rolleyes:


:D
what is the actual poundage of our sweet wheels? I would guess 24 lbs or so...

[doeboy]

what is the actual poundage of our sweet wheels? I would guess 24 lbs or so...

For just the wheel...

24.7 for the front
26.24 for the rear

for comparison... the 17" M68 wheels...

20.79 for the front
21.82 for the rear

:eeps:

[RSPDiver]

sweet sassy molassy!

[schreck]

No, I don't have a blue M3, I wish I did. I am not some spoiled rich kid. I have a pos ford contour. I was just saying, this isn't a "street race" forum. It's not a ricer site.

[HW]

No, I don't have a blue M3, I wish I did. I am not some spoiled rich kid. I have a pos ford contour. I was just saying, this isn't a "street race" forum. It's not a ricer site.
just curious if you were this dude in the other forum. :rofl:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177839&highlight=turbo+rsx

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=180944&highlight=turbo+rsx

[Frank Rizzo]

CREAM=Cash Rules Everything Around Me

dolla dolla bill, y'all.....

[HW]

Wow, I didn't know it was THAT bad. Where'd you get these numbers?

Shame on BMW. $3K for a performance package and the biggest change is that they add 15 lbs of weight to the wheels? :thumbdwn:
+ 15 lbs :tsk: = -15 hp

[doeboy]

Wow, I didn't know it was THAT bad. Where'd you get these numbers?

Shame on BMW. $3K for a performance package and the biggest change is that they add 15 lbs of weight to the wheels? :thumbdwn:

I collected some information from parts catalog inquiries... :D

Yeah and the 15lbs doesn't even account for tire weight differences either... (which I believe are usually higher for 18" tires too... :eek: )

[Fast Bob]

I collected some information from parts catalog inquiries... :D

Yeah and the 15lbs doesn't even account for tire weight differences either... (which I believe are usually higher for 18" tires too... :eek: )

Yeah, it`s too bad they did`nt pay a little more attention here....rotating, unsprung weight is the worst place to be carrying extra baggage....I would have preferred something clean & simple, like the Breyton Imagine.

Regards,
Bob

[doeboy]

Yeah, it`s too bad they did`nt pay a little more attention here....rotating, unsprung weight is the worst place to be carrying extra baggage....I would have preferred something clean & simple, like the Breyton Imagine.

Regards,
Bob

But those aren't exactly light either.... :eek:

[kurichan]

Shame on BMW. $3K for a performance package and the biggest change is that they add 15 lbs of weight to the wheels? :thumbdwn:

Unfortunately, if they made the wheels light, we'd be complaining about cracked or bent rims... They went for durability instead of weight savings. It's hard to blame them. Take it from someone who's both cracked (cast) and bent (forged) light weight rims before...

I can't find the post, but is someone saying that the rims are 15 pounds heavier? I find that nearly impossible to believe...

[Fast Bob]

But those aren't exactly light either.... :eek:

Being that they`re cast, not forged, I`m sure you`re right....but they`d definitely be a hell of a lot easier to clean!

Regards,
Bob

[HW]

I collected some information from parts catalog inquiries... :D

Yeah and the 15lbs doesn't even account for tire weight differences either... (which I believe are usually higher for 18" tires too... :eek: )

found some tire weights here:

http://www.gti-vr6.net/library/wheels_tires_brakes/tires_weight.html
---------------8<-----------------------snip-----------------------
Size S-02 P.Pos. SP-9000 SP-8000 Proxes T1-S RE-71

225/50-16 24 23.4 26 22.7 26.0
245/45-16 24 25.1 26.5 21.6 26.0
225/45-17 24 22.5 n.a. 20.9 30.0
245/40-17 26 23.9 n.a. 22.3 25.0
245/40-18 27 24.8 24.9 24.0 n.a.
275/35-18 30 27.2 26.5 25.6 n.a.

In general the Toyo T1-S are always the lightest.

Notice that in the 245/45-16 size the Toyo Proxes T1-S is by far the
lightest.
--------------8<---------------------snip--------------------------

[kurichan]

Doeboy posted his numbers above in this thread. If I can do may right, it's a total of over 15 lbs? :dunno:

I understand in theory what you're saying about cracked rims, but there's no excuse or the ZHP wheels to offer less "performance" than the SP wheels. There's a good chance that they do, which is why it should be renamed the :bling: package.Errr... The SP wheels are 17", the ZHP wheels, 18", right?

3.75 pounds average per corner for an extra inch (and don't forget they are WIDER) isn't bad at all for cast rims! Plus 18's need to be tougher because they have quite a bit less rubber and pneumatic cushioning to protect them! I don't understand what all the fuss is about...

[kurichan]

+ 15 lbs :tsk: = -15 hp :rofl:

[kurichan]

But do the make the car faster or slower? If it's not faster, then :thumbdwn:I feel like if I'm not careful and precise with my answer, this will turn into a flame war, so here goes...

I guess that depends on how you define fast. It won't make the car faster in a drag race... :rofl:

I suspect, as is typical, the car handles better with the larger/wider rims with shorter sidewall tires and more contact patch. Better handling should make the car capable of faster track times, so I think despite the added weight (which is inevitable, given that it is a larger/wider mass produced wheel expected to stand up to punishment) it makes the car faster.

Like I said, I don't see what the fuss is about...

[doeboy]

Guys... guys....

no doubt 18" wheels will in most cases be heavier compared to 17" wheels... and actually... I think for being 18s... the M135s aren't that bad in the weight dept. compared to most other 18" wheels...

as far as which is better... it really depends on the driver's preferences.... if the handling differences that an 18" wheel provide at a trade-off for having a bit more unsprung weight is okay with the driver, so be it... If the driver has no choice but to go heavier on the wheels for other reasons such as brake caliper clearance for example.... so be it... it all depends...

For me... I wasn't thrilled with that idea.... my wheels are 18x8 in front at about 20.25 lbs and my rears are 18x9 at about 20.9 lbs... so I'm happy...

btw... M68s are 17x7.5 for the front and 17x8.5 in the back. the M135s are 18x8 and 18x8.5.

Some 18" wheels will let you maintain or reduce unsprung weight as well... although ones that do are a relatively small part of the 18" world of wheels...

[HW]

I feel like if I'm not careful and precise with my answer, this will turn into a flame war, so here goes...

I guess that depends on how you define fast. It won't make the car faster in a drag race... :rofl:

I suspect, as is typical, the car handles better with the larger/wider rims with shorter sidewall tires and more contact patch. Better handling should make the car capable of faster track times, so I think despite the added weight (which is inevitable, given that it is a larger/wider mass produced wheel expected to stand up to punishment) it makes the car faster.

Like I said, I don't see what the fuss is about...

you mentioned drag race?
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1116_9905_wheel/

more weight cons on performance:
1. slower acceleration
2. longer breaking distance due to more inertia of heavier wheels

also not only that, 18" are worst for straight line performance because it moves the weight (rim of wheel) further outwards radially for greater inertial effects. one reason for using bigger rims on a car is to accommodate bigger brakes. does the zhp have bigger brake disks than the regular 330. you are right about the handling though.

more for your reading enjoyment
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/july01/axis.shtml
http://www.tirebusiness.com/subscriber/opinion2.phtml?cat=3&id=1058796645

[mkh]

I guess that depends on how you define fast. It won't make the car faster in a drag race... :rofl:
Actually it (the package) does make it faster in a drag race. The weight of the wheels alone may make it slower, but with the additional hp and torque, higher rpm limit, and final ratio, it is more than enough to offset the extra 15 lbs. Unless you don't believe what BMW said about 0-60 times, the ZHP is 5.9 sec. compared to 6.4 for the ZSP. If the wheels were another 15 to 20 lbs less, the gap would have been even bigger.

[doeboy]

Actually it (the package) does make it faster in a drag race. The weight of the wheels alone may make it slower, but with the additional hp and torque, higher rpm limit, and final ratio, it is more than enough to offset the extra 15 lbs. Unless you don't believe what BMW said about 0-60 times, the ZHP is 5.9 sec. compared to 6.4 for the ZSP. If the wheels were another 15 to 20 lbs less, the gap would have been even bigger.

I want to see what it can do if you put 17" M68s on it shod with Michelins or something towards the lighter end of the tire spectrum... think of how much faster it could be with the lighter wheels.... that'd be some interesting numbers. :)

It's a good package... but with lighter wheels.... it'd be that much better. :drive:

[HW]

Some 18" wheels will let you maintain or reduce unsprung weight as well... although ones that do are a relatively small part of the 18" world of wheels...http://www.europeanspeed.com/wheelweights.htm

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>BBS RK</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>17x8</TD><TD>18.0 (these are listed at 16.9 elsewhere)</TD></TR><TR><TD>BBS RK</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>18x7.5</TD><TD>18.2</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>BBS RCJ</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>17.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>BBS RCJ</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x9</TD><TD>18.7</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>BBS RC</TD><TD>Cast (soft)</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>19.5</TD></TR><TR><TD>BBS RC</TD><TD>Cast (soft)</TD><TD>18x8.5</TD><TD>18.7</TD></TR><TR><TD>BBS RC</TD><TD>Cast (soft)</TD><TD>18x10</TD><TD>19.5</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>BBS CH</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>24.0</TD></TR><TR><TD>BBS CH</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>18x8.5</TD><TD>24.5</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>OZ Superleggera</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>17x8</TD><TD>16.4</TD></TR><TR><TD>OZ Superleggera</TD><TD>Cast</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>17.6</TD></TR><TR><TD>OZ Superleggera</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>19x8</TD><TD>21.5</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>SSR GT1</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>17x8</TD><TD>17.8</TD></TR><TR><TD>SSR GT1</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>19.0</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>SSR Type-C (called Competitions in the US)</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>16.0</TD></TR><TR><TD>SSR Type-C (called Competitions in the US)</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x9</TD><TD>17.0</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>Volk SE37K</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>17x7.5</TD><TD>14.3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Volk SE37K</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x9.5</TD><TD>16.8</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>Volk TE37</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>17x7.5</TD><TD>15.0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Volk TE37</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x7.5</TD><TD>17.0</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>Wed's TC-005</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x10</TD><TD>18.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wed's TC-005</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x7.5</TD><TD>16.8</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wed's TC-005</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x8</TD><TD>17.7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wed's TC-005</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x8.5</TD><TD>17.9</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wed's TC-005</TD><TD>SSF</TD><TD>18x9</TD><TD>18.6</TD></TR>********></TABLE>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="78%" border=0>*******><TR><TD>Work Emotion</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x7.5</TD><TD>16.7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Work Emotion</TD><TD>Forged</TD><TD>18x8.5</TD><TD>17.4</TD></TR>********></TABLE>

[mkh]

I want to see what it can do if you put 17" M68s on it shod with Michelins or something towards the lighter end of the tire spectrum... think of how much faster it could be with the lighter wheels.... that'd be some interesting numbers. :)

It's a good package... but with lighter wheels.... it'd be that much better. :drive:
I'm pretty sure if you put M68 and shod with Toyo T1-S, you won't have much problem shaving another 0.2 sec.

[kurichan]

Actually it (the package) does make it faster in a drag race. The weight of the wheels alone may make it slower, but with the additional hp and torque, higher rpm limit, and final ratio, it is more than enough to offset the extra 15 lbs. Unless you don't believe what BMW said about 0-60 times, the ZHP is 5.9 sec. compared to 6.4 for the ZSP. If the wheels were another 15 to 20 lbs less, the gap would have been even bigger.I was going to mention that, but it wasn't in context. We were talking about wheels. But I'm glad YOU did! :D

[HW]

I want to see what it can do if you put 17" M68s on it shod with Michelins or something towards the lighter end of the tire spectrum... think of how much faster it could be with the lighter wheels.... that'd be some interesting numbers. :)

It's a good package... but with lighter wheels.... it'd be that much better. :drive:
same here, i want to see the diff w/ say oz superleggerras and toyo t1-s.

[kurichan]

you mentioned drag race?
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1116_9905_wheel/Which agrees with my post.

more weight cons on performance:
1. slower acceleration
2. longer breaking distance due to more inertia of heavier wheelsYes, as per my original post, I agree on #1. However, wider wheels with more tire contact patch improves braking distance. Any physicists here? I suspect that incremental weight induced rotational inertia is neglible at best anyhow...

also not only that, 18" are worst for straight line performance because it moves the weight (rim of wheel) further outwards radially for greater inertial effects. one reason for using bigger rims on a car is to accommodate bigger brakes. does the zhp have bigger brake disks than the regular 330.Agree on straight line, but I think they're worse, not worst... Brakes are the same, aren't they? It's likely BMW was going for handling benefits and appearance on this one though, not making rooms for brakes...

[HW]

Actually it (the package) does make it faster in a drag race. The weight of the wheels alone may make it slower, but with the additional hp and torque, higher rpm limit, and final ratio, it is more than enough to offset the extra 15 lbs. Unless you don't believe what BMW said about 0-60 times, the ZHP is 5.9 sec. compared to 6.4 for the ZSP. If the wheels were another 15 to 20 lbs less, the gap would have been even bigger.i would think the major gains are from the final ratio seeing how the increase in wheel weight would strip the benefits of the increase in hp. but probably the donut spare helps a bit too. every 10lbs sprung weight is equiv to 1hp while every 1lb of unsprung weight is equiv to 1hp.

[kurichan]

i would think the major gains are from the final ratio seeing how the increase in wheel weight would strip the benefits of the increase in hp. but probably the donut spare helps a bit too. every 10lbs sprung weight is equiv to 1hp while every 1lb of unsprung weight is equiv to 1hp.or maybe the wheel weight strips the final ratio benefits and the horsepower makes the difference? :bustingup

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

[doeboy]

http://www.europeanspeed.com/wheelweights.htm

Yes but that selection of wheels from the database there still makes up a small sampling of all 18" wheels out there... I'm not saying there aren't a lot of options that will be about the same or lighter, but there are many more that are heavier..... especially big chrome bling bling ones. :) look at the Anteras.... :yikes: now that's pretty heavy...

[mkh]

I was going to mention that, but it wasn't in context. We were talking about wheels.
I know. Using your "drag race" statement, I was responding to the previous thread saying that because of the added weight, the performance package should be renamed to "bling bling" package. And we can see that even with the extra wheel weight, the package still adds quite a bit of performance. So its name is still appropriate.

[HW]

maybe get these brakes to offset the extra weight of the wheels.

http://www.bavauto.com/assets/imglib500/zmi-brake-kit.jpg

[kurichan]

I know. Using your "drag race" statement, I was responding to the previous thread saying that because of the added weight, the performance package should be renamed to "bling bling" package. And we can see that even with the extra wheel weight, the package still adds quite a bit of performance. So its name is still appropriate.I guess you didn't see my edited post... :D Like I said, I'm glad you posted it so I didn't have to! :D

[kurichan]

maybe get these brakes to offset the extra weight of the wheels.

http://www.bavauto.com/assets/imglib500/zmi-brake-kit.jpgGeeeez. Those rotors look wafer thin, almost like you could snap them off with two fingers!

[HW]

Geeeez. Those rotors look wafer thin, almost like you could snap them off with two fingers!they're titanium rotors for m3's. ~8kusd per pair

edit: 8kusd for set fronts and rears.

[kurichan]

they're titanium rotors for m3's. ~8kusd per pairYeah I looked up the price before you edited... $2K/corner! Nuts! I think I'd rather give the money to charity! :angel:

[doeboy]

they're titanium rotors for m3's. ~8kusd per pair

Those are some expensive brakes.... :eek:

I saw those at the SEMA show and thought they looked like a cheese grater or something... :) I wonder how well they perform and hold up to track conditions.... at $8k I'd sure hope they do pretty well...

[HW]

claimed weight savings:
rotors - 5 lbs vs 17 lbs (97 m3)
calipers - 7 lbs vs 12 lbs (97 m3)

some incredible weight savings i'd say.
unsprung spinning weight -12x4=-48lbs
unsprung weight total -48-(5x4)=-64lbs

imagine also going from 45lbs/wheel to 37lbs/wheel on top of that
-(8x4)=-32lbs

total: -64-32= -96lbs.

who needs to forced induction :D

[HW]

Wow! That $8K could produce better performance bang for the buck than the ZHP package. :rofl: :D
throw in zhp into the mix and you could be whooping some m3 @ss w/ them brakes and new wheels.

[Doug_MI]

I am not happy with the tram-lining and heavy feel; plus our roads are terrible where I live. I am trying the smaller, lighter wheels and non staggered set up in hope of taming the car and getting the fluid, light BMW feel that I am used to. I will report on the difference after I get the wheels on Friday. The ZHP wheels and tires with only 300 miles will be listed for sale if I like the new wheels. I will only sell for a local pickup here in the Detroit area.

[Fast Bob]

I'm pretty sure if you put M68 and shod with Toyo T1-S, you won't have much problem shaving another 0.2 sec.
Maybe you guys should re-read HW`s "CarCraft drag-race" link....they shaved off a *whopping* 82 lbs. (yes, EIGHTY-TWO POUNDS)of wheel weight, and only improved ET/MPH by 1/10 of a second and one MPH....not much improvement....one important aspect I think many of you are overlooking is that in a hi-RPM, tire-spinning drag race start, the wheels have a "flywheel" effect, aiding a fast launch, and that once they`re spinning, the additional weight is not that hard to overcome.

Regards,
Bob

[kurichan]

Maybe you guys should re-read HW`s "CarCraft drag-race" link....they shaved off a *whopping* 82 lbs. (yes, EIGHTY-TWO POUNDS)of wheel weight, and only improved ET/MPH by 1/10 of a second and one MPH....not much improvement....one important aspect I think many of you are overlooking is that in a hi-RPM, tire-spinning drag race start, the wheels have a "flywheel" effect, aiding a fast launch, and that once they`re spinning, the additional weight is not that hard to overcome.I'm with you Bob, so don't get me wrong, but to stir things up a bit, if the wheels are wider, like on the ZHP, they grip more which interferes with wheel spin, slowing drag runs.

[mkh]

Maybe you guys should re-read HW`s "CarCraft drag-race" link....they shaved off a *whopping* 82 lbs. (yes, EIGHTY-TWO POUNDS)of wheel weight, and only improved ET/MPH by 1/10 of a second and one MPH....not much improvement....one important aspect I think many of you are overlooking is that in a hi-RPM, tire-spinning drag race start, the wheels have a "flywheel" effect, aiding a fast launch, and that once they`re spinning, the additional weight is not that hard to overcome.

Regards,
Bob
I sure hope this is true. And you should have posted this right in the beginning of the thread since all the talks of how the heavy M135 slowing down the ZHP are pretty much meaningless. To me, I could care less. Just that gorgeous looks alone is enough for me to keep them.

[RSPDiver]

I'm with you Bob, so don't get me wrong, but to stir things up a bit, if the wheels are wider, like on the ZHP, they grip more which interferes with wheel spin, slowing drag runs.
Unfortunately, wide low-profile tires are the opposite of optimal for drag racing. For drag racing, snow driving, and optimum braking, you are best served with tires that have a longer front-to-back contact patch, rather than wide side-to-side patch. Like 0 versus o. This allows traction for propulsion (and braking). Wide low profile tires are better for lateral acceleration and traction, as in cornering.

Still, HW will NEVER crush the ZHP superiority! LOL ( :stickpoke at you bro ;) )

[Doug_MI]

No offense to those of you who are into racing. I could have bought a Mustang gt or Dodge Magnum, or even a Subaru WRX or Forester Turbo and spanked my 330 ZHP without trouble. What I find interesting in a BMW is the fluid driving exprerience. I now think that the ZHP is OK but not great. Hopefully the smaller, lighter wheels will improve things.

Believe it or not, my favorite car is the base 320d's (yes Diesel!) with 205/50/16 summer tires that I rent from Sixt or Avis in Europe. I would buy that car in a split second if possible here in the USA. I got a little silly and bought a ZHP, and now find the handelling more than I will ever need, and the ride bit too harsh.

I hope that the 17" wheels and tires lighten things up a bit and make the car dance a little better. And again, I do not care about accelleration times, or skid pad g force. Autocross is not an issue either; if it were, I would not have bought the sissy Steptronic version.

And I know what you will say, "why did you not test drive the car". I did, several times. It is easy to get caught up in the test driving and get excited about the sharp handelling and the cool styling of the ZHP. But I knew, even when I was test driving, that the 18" tires with really heavy wheels were not the best idea for me or the area that I drive in. I factored this tire upgrade expreriment into the total cost of the car.

Let me see how the 17" RGR wheels and the PS-2's do on the car and if it does not improve things then I will eat Crow and sell those wheels and tires at 1/2 to 2/3 cost to some lucky sole on Bimmerest. If I like the new wheels and tires, then the ZHP wheels (300 mles new) go to one of you that lust for them.

Please; no offense to anybody here that enjoys the ZHP. I too thought that it rocked or I would not have bought the car. I still love it the way it is (stock) more than anything else I could buy.

[Doug_MI]

Please, no offense. I think that the ZHP is pretty cool stock. I know that it is supposed to ride harder than a regular 330i; I get it. I am just tweaking it to my liking, just like when most of you spend money to make it stop faster or turn faster. My guess is that that the 7 or 8 poinds of unsprung mass per wheel saved will make the car lighter on it's feet, while the Michelin PS-2's will make my ZHP just about right for me; less impact from sharp bumps and less tram line, while still handelling better than anything else on the road besides an M-3 or another ZHP.

So, those of you who want ZHP wheels and tires, or those in the market for 17"
BBS RG-R's (not staggered) with Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, please stay tuned because somebody will profit from my folly.

[HW]

Please, no offense. I think that the ZHP is pretty cool stock. I know that it is supposed to ride harder than a regular 330i; I get it. I am just tweaking it to my liking, just like when most of you spend money to make it stop faster or turn faster. My guess is that that the 7 or 8 poinds of unsprung mass per wheel saved will make the car lighter on it's feet, while the Michelin PS-2's will make my ZHP just about right for me; less impact from sharp bumps and less tram line, while still handelling better than anything else on the road besides an M-3 or another ZHP.

So, those of you who want ZHP wheels and tires, or those in the market for 17"
BBS RG-R's (not staggered) with Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, please stay tuned because somebody will profit from my folly.
i saved 7 lbs on each corner going from 16" style 54 to 17" bbs rk's and i could really feel a difference in throttle response and braking. like 2 upgrades in 1.

going from style 135's to 38 lbs/wheel would save 12 lbs per corner or 48 lbs for the car

[Fast Bob]

I'm with you Bob, so don't get me wrong, but to stir things up a bit, if the wheels are wider, like on the ZHP, they grip more which interferes with wheel spin, slowing drag runs.
But then again, this is rather extreme, as our cars are`nt really suited to this (abusive) kind of driving, as well as being too torque-limited for a *real* tire-smoking, Raceway Park type of start. My old Saleen Mustang, on the other hand, would light `em up for 200 feet with no problem....(just need the right tool for the job....)
Unsprung weight rears it`s ugly head most often while driving on choppy, uneven surfaces (aka/"washboard roads"), where a car with a lower unsprung weight will keep the tires in contact with the road much better than a car with high UW, which will tend to "skip" across the surface`s irregularaties....anyone who`s crawled around under cars for a while will tell you that cars with aluminum-intensive suspensions and lightweight wheels will yield a smoother, more compliant ride, as well as quicker response and better handling.

Regards,
Bob

[kurichan]

:banghead: It's called the performance package.

Then put them in a :bling: package if they're about looks!Whatever the heck it's called, it IS WHAT IT IS... He liked what he bought. :dunno: To each his own! Besides, it PERFORMS better than the stock 330i in several categories, so it's true to its name, right?

[kurichan]

Please, no offense. I think that the ZHP is pretty cool stock. I know that it is supposed to ride harder than a regular 330i; I get it. I am just tweaking it to my liking, just like when most of you spend money to make it stop faster or turn faster. My guess is that that the 7 or 8 poinds of unsprung mass per wheel saved will make the car lighter on it's feet, while the Michelin PS-2's will make my ZHP just about right for me; less impact from sharp bumps and less tram line, while still handelling better than anything else on the road besides an M-3 or another ZHP.

So, those of you who want ZHP wheels and tires, or those in the market for 17"
BBS RG-R's (not staggered) with Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, please stay tuned because somebody will profit from my folly.Are the main links in the suspension aluminum alloy? If they aren't, those parts will make a big difference too! You should also get those $8,000 brakes!

[kurichan]

I'm criticizing BMW for subtracting from the true potential of a Perf package by adding bling.Was it bling that they added, or simply larger, wider wheels which accept shorter, wider tires which improve handling? When they made the decision to go to 18" for performance, that came with weight because like it or not, BMWs are driven by all sorts of people in some pretty harsh environments and they cannot afford to have wheels cracking or bending! We just have to face up to the fact that it's a mass marketed car and BMW cannot put ultralight wheels on a mass marketed car because that creates a significantly higher probability of a bent or cracked rim. Like I said in my first post, if we weren't here complaining about the weight, I'm willing to bet that we'd be listening to complaints about the damn "glass" rims that BMW used on the ZHP and the ZHP would be more expensive to cover the cost of light rims. I've both cracked and bent expensive light rims. The concern is NOT a paranoid fantasy...

In my case, I only cracked two spokes! I couldn't find the pictures of the rim I cracked, but here is a shot of a similar style rim (see attachment)... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[HW]

In my case, I only cracked two spokes! I couldn't find the pictures of the rim I cracked, but here is a shot of a similar style rim (see attachment)... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
did someone ride up a curb or something?

[Doug_MI]

I just changed the wheels. I did not weigh the ZHP wheels, but they feel a lot heavier than the new 17" unstaggered BBS RG-r with Pilot Sport 2's. I am going for a long drive and will make a report later and photos tomorrow.

ZHP wheels will be for sale if I like the ride this weekend. The ZHP wheels and tires are brand new; 300 miles or so.

[kurichan]

did someone ride up a curb or something?Don't remember exactly what happened with the rim pictured but in my case, absolutely normal driving, only a very occasional pothole (our streets are decent in San Diego because we don't have snow).

[Roadhawk]

Up until last fall I was running 19" OZ Supperleggaras on my Audi...very light...but not only did they ding and bend (way too) easy - but twice they cracked on me - a pretty expensive replacement item if you ask me. I now run 19" RS4 replica wheels - that look great - but they weigh a ton. The car is noticibly less quick on initial acceleration...but the ride quality is much nicer (much)...and I have peace of mind that the rims won't self destruct driving down the road. Super light rims are great for the track - but I wouldnt recommend them for everyday use - unless perhaps you buy very strong and expensive forged wheels - and then maybe...

[HW]

Up until last fall I was running 19" OZ Supperleggaras on my Audi...very light...but not only did they ding and bend (way too) easy - but twice they cracked on me - a pretty expensive replacement item if you ask me. I now run 19" RS4 replica wheels - that look great - but they weigh a ton. The car is noticibly less quick on initial acceleration...but the ride quality is much nicer (much)...and I have peace of mind that the rims won't self destruct driving down the road. Super light rims are great for the track - but I wouldnt recommend them for everyday use - unless perhaps you buy very strong and expensive forged wheels - and then maybe...
19" don't give you very good rim protection :dunno: i would also think that 19" are pretty heavy even w/ the oz sl's.

[Doug_MI]

Mounted new wheels and tires on my 330i ZHP.

17" by 8" BBS RG-R
225 45 17 Michelin Pilot Sorts
32 PSI Front, 36 PSI Rear

My car feels much lighter on it's feet. The car is slightly less likely to tramline in rutted blacktop. Ride quality is improved but still firm.

All in all, the car seems more agile, but still has huge amounts fo lateral grip; more grip than I will ever need.

Rear traction is slightly less if I nail it from a dead stop at a left turn; I do not do that much so this is not an issue. Car seems to maintain very good rear traction over very bumpy, tore up sections of road, which are common around where I live.

Overall, I think this is a good change. The car looks nice too (in my opinion), so I am going to sell the ZHP rims and tires with 300 miles on them to somebody that can come to my house to pick them up. I will place an ad on the various BMW web sites.

-Doug

[kurichan]

Up until last fall I was running 19" OZ Supperleggaras on my Audi...very light...but not only did they ding and bend (way too) easy - but twice they cracked on me - a pretty expensive replacement item if you ask me. I now run 19" RS4 replica wheels - that look great - but they weigh a ton. The car is noticibly less quick on initial acceleration...but the ride quality is much nicer (much)...and I have peace of mind that the rims won't self destruct driving down the road. Super light rims are great for the track - but I wouldnt recommend them for everyday use - unless perhaps you buy very strong and expensive forged wheels - and then maybe... :stupid: Mine were only 17's - same issues. 18 or 19 I can't even imagine!

[kurichan]

Mounted new wheels and tires on my 330i ZHP.

17" by 8" BBS RG-R
225 45 17 Michelin Pilot Sorts
32 PSI Front, 36 PSI Rear

My car feels much lighter on it's feet. The car is slightly less likely to tramline in rutted blacktop. Ride quality is improved but still firm.

All in all, the car seems more agile, but still has huge amounts fo lateral grip; more grip than I will ever need.

Rear traction is slightly less if I nail it from a dead stop at a left turn; I do not do that much so this is not an issue. Car seems to maintain very good rear traction over very bumpy, tore up sections of road, which are common around where I live.

Overall, I think this is a good change. The car looks nice too (in my opinion), so I am going to sell the ZHP rims and tires with 300 miles on them to somebody that can come to my house to pick them up. I will place an ad on the various BMW web sites.

-DougYou're killing us! No PICTURES???? Also, how much were they? Aren't those FORGED rims? They must have cost a fortune?

[Ashe too]

You're killing us! No PICTURES???? Also, how much were they? Aren't those FORGED rims? They must have cost a fortune?
Yeah, really dude. I'm thinking about doing the same thing. BTW, what tire sizes are you using and where's the pics?

[Doug_MI]

225/45/17 Michelin Pilot 2's, front and rear the same size.

The wheels are 8" wide BBS RG-R's. They were expensive, but not any more than the other 17" BBS wheels from Tirerack. Total package was about $2400 with tires and shipping.

Just drove 300 miles, up along Lake Huron in Canada and back. These new tires and wheels have really transformed the car making it feel much lighter (ride/steering). The car tracks a lot straighter on 2 lane farm roads and on the freeway.

I will take some photos tomorrow and post them if I can figure out how to do that. Most likely I will use my .Mac account and just place a link here.

-Doug

[HW]

225/45/17 Michelin Pilot 2's, front and rear the same size.

The wheels are 8" wide BBS RG-R's. They were expensive, but not any more than the other 17" BBS wheels from Tirerack. Total package was about $2400 with tires and shipping.

Just drove 300 miles, up along Lake Huron in Canada and back. These new tires and wheels have really transformed the car making it feel much lighter (ride/steering). The car tracks a lot straighter on 2 lane farm roads and on the freeway.

I will take some photos tomorrow and post them if I can figure out how to do that. Most likely I will use my .Mac account and just place a link here.

-Doug
what's the weight diff between the 2?

[Doug_MI]

OK,

According to FEDEX the new wheels, 17" RGR with Pilot sport 2's weigh 44 pounds each.

Do not know what the ZHP wheels and tires weigh.
-Doug

[Doug_MI]

http://homepage.mac.com/douglas751/PhotoAlbum19.html

[doeboy]

OK,

According to FEDEX the new wheels, 17" RGR with Pilot sport 2's weigh 44 pounds each.

Do not know what the ZHP wheels and tires weigh.
-Doug

What kind of tires did you get on them? 44 seems kind of heavy to me.... :dunno:

17x8 RG-R should be about 17.16 lbs
and a 225/45-17 Pilot Sport 2 should be about 21.6 lbs

so that makes 38.76 ish.... Even with balancing weights, valve stems... it shouldn't be that much more...

44 seems a bit much... but then there is packing material and all that rubbish too when shipping along with your wheel hardware that comes with them and all that....

[HW]

17x8 RG-R should be about 17.16 lbs

:eek: how do you know this? down to nearly gram precision.

[doeboy]

:eek: how do you know this? down to nearly gram precision.

:rofl:

I've been sort of collecting data on my own for comparision purposes for a while when I was shopping for wheels/tires....

the RG-R weight I got from the BBS Japan website.... 7.8kg converted to pounds....

the PS2 weights aren't shown on any Michelin data sheets.... but I believe someone once posted their info for their tire setup and I knew the weight of their wheel so I back calculated to get the approximate tire weight of a PS2....

See my sig? Bib is my friend and he told me.... :eeps: :D :rofl:

[HW]

interesting article

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/road_wheel_weights.html

[EPBB]

I am going to sell the ZHP rims and tires with 300 miles on them to somebody that can come to my house to pick them up. I will place an ad on the various BMW web sites.

-Doug

Doug,

Hi. Have you sold these yet, and if not, how much are you asking? I also just want to confirm that your ZHP rims were the 18" M135s. Let me know. Thanks.

[MG67]

They should stick on some solid gold bars... :eek:

[EPBB]

http://homepage.mac.com/douglas751/PhotoAlbum19.html

Hey Doug,

This may be a stupid question, but what did you use to get the "BMW" logo on the wheels? I have found different colored "propellers" for the BMW logo, but not the actual emblem like the ones used on the hood and trunk. If you can, please let me know. Thanks.

[Clewis]

Man, did this thread hit home!

I also want to sell off my set of M135 and go with 17s.

The BBS RG-ST are my preference. They are stunning, IMHO.

The problem (besides the cost $$$$!!) is that, according to Tire Rack,
they are not available in 17", at least not for a while.

I was also considering the ASA AR1 with the intent to have the
centers painted black or a dark gray (my car is Silver Gray).

BUT, the AR1 has a clearance issue on the 330i in a 17".

I suppose that I could go with RG-R and paint the center, but I really
like the look of the RG-ST better. If I'm gonna spend the money, I'd
prefer to get what I really want.

I was also considering the Rondell #58, but I understand that it weighs as
much as the M135.

Oh, well. I may just wait for a few months and see what happens with the
RG-ST. If I'm gonna sell the M135, though, I would rather go ahead and
do it while they are relatively new.

[doeboy]

The BBS RG-ST are my preference. They are stunning, IMHO.


That's RS-GT not RG-ST.... :)

17" do exist but only in offset 40... but that should be okay... my guess is BBS hasn't started importing that size here yet...

[Clewis]

Sorry, a type on my part.

Yes that would be RS-GT.

Killer looking wheels.

[Doug_MI]

Hello EPBB:

The wheels are sold now.

The center caps came from Tirerack a few years ago when I bought some BBS RX wheels and snow tires for my 530. I had to keep bugging them to get these; the sales guy told me that they were not available but I kept calling and eventually got them. I think that it is too much work for them to document which wheels fit which size.

Anyhow, I got lucky and the BMW center caps from my BBS RX fit my new BBS RG-R.

They are nice, perhpas not as nice as OEM, but almost. These are not the "stickers" that I was told that I could get. Tireack would not help me find the real caps this time when I ordered my RG-R and Pilot 2's; a $2500 order. That was pretty lame I thought. I was given some BS by the salesman; "these centers are not available becuase of some licsensing problem between BBS and BMW"; utter crap.....

I got lucky.

-Doug