2004 330i "brass hat" purchase advice?

[skydeck]

Hey Folks,

Another rookie here, about to put some money down for a 2004 330i "brass hat" with 8k miles on it already... wanted to do a sanity check with the experts in this forum. I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on the car, the deal and what I should be looking out for. Here are the specs:

330i
10k miles
premium package
sport package
auto transmission
fold down rear seats
heated front seats
park distance control
xenon lights
good condition
- some minor scratches and one small paint chip
- never been serviced

The dealer is selling at approximately $37k. The dealership is in the Bay Area.

Since the car is 2004 but not new, it's tough to price directly on the web. Edmunds shows a comparable 2003 330i for $36.4k (dealer retail TMV) while KBB shows a retail value of $38.7k. A brand new 2004 comparable 330i comes out to about $43.5k.

I've heard that there is some dealer cash for 2004 330i as well as demo allowances, so not sure what the true cost of the car is to the dealer.

Is this a good deal?

Anything to be wary of, esp. with brass hats driven by BMWNA execs?

What should I look out for at inspection before taking the car?
After the negotiation, I found some minor body wear and tear (scratches), so I'm wondering if there's other less cosmetic stuff I should check out.

Any other questions I should be asking?


Please let me know your thoughts, much appreciated!

[GregE_325]

A very thorough inspection by someone other than they dealer probably wouldn't be a bad idea. I was talking to a friend yesterday who recently bought a "brass-hat" 325 that was CPO'd at the dealer. She took it back to the dealer to have them look at suspicious noise, and the service advisor called to tell her that the car had been wrecked before she bought it. Apparently, the damage included a tie rod that someone had painted over to conceal something. I'm still waiting to hear the whole story as it unfolds today.
Needless to say, the whole CPO process isn't all it's cracked up to be. And most likely, some BMWNA executive banged up the car and didn't want anyone to find out about it.

[PropellerHead]

Anything to be wary of, esp. with brass hats driven by BMWNA execs?

What should I look out for at inspection before taking the car?
After the negotiation, I found some minor body wear and tear (scratches), so I'm wondering if there's other less cosmetic stuff I should check out.

Any other questions I should be asking?


Please let me know your thoughts, much appreciated!I recently bought an '04 X5 'Exec driven'. It had 17K miles. That's a lot for the six or eight months it had been in service, but I am not concerned. The truck has been great for the past 5,000 miles (in 90 days!)

This truck was pretty loaded with everything but NAV and rear A/C (or something). I was able to get a deal which saved over $10K off a new one just like it. I did find some paint imperfections and even a ding, but I bought this truck as a 'beater' of sorts. I've hauled everything from Home Depot 10ft lead gas pipes to my baby's first ride home from the hospital.

The real selling point for me was that the X5 was CPO. At this rate, I'll be well under the 6 years by the time I hit 100K, but the warranty does a lot to quell my anxiety about big problems. Are they offering you CPO? This is my second CPO bimmer. A friend also had a CPO 5 series and got more than $5,000 worth of mechanical work done for $150. (New tranny, CATS, and dash pixels.)

My truck did have a service history and I asked them to print that out and explain it to me so I could understand where it had been and what the problems where. You might ask them to do the same if you're interested.

[skydeck]

The real selling point for me was that the X5 was CPO. At this rate, I'll be well under the 6 years by the time I hit 100K, but the warranty does a lot to quell my anxiety about big problems. Are they offering you CPO? This is my second CPO bimmer. A friend also had a CPO 5 series and got more than $5,000 worth of mechanical work done for $150. (New tranny, CATS, and dash pixels.)

My truck did have a service history and I asked them to print that out and explain it to me so I could understand where it had been and what the problems where. You might ask them to do the same if you're interested.

They didn't offer me CPO during the negotiations and I didn't ask because didn't think the car would qualify -- it's technically not used because it went directly to a BMWNA exec. They offered me the 6yr/100k extended maintenance warranty for $1300 after the price was negotiated.

-- In general, can you get CPO coverage on a 2004 "brass hat" not sold before?

-- Regardless, would you pay the $1300 now for the extended maintenance warranty?

I asked about the vehicle history and apparently there has been no service performed the car because it's before any scheduled services -- 8k miles so far.

[Mr. The Edge]

They didn't offer me CPO during the negotiations and I didn't ask because didn't think the car would qualify -- it's technically not used because it went directly to a BMWNA exec. They offered me the 6yr/100k extended maintenance warranty for $1300 after the price was negotiated.

-- In general, can you get CPO coverage on a 2004 "brass hat" not sold before?

-- Regardless, would you pay the $1300 now for the extended maintenance warranty?

I asked about the vehicle history and apparently there has been no service performed the car because it's before any scheduled services -- 8k miles so far.

Wow, that car without CPO is worth much less than they are quoting.

We bought a 2003 brass hat a couple of months ago that had 13,000 miles on it. It was CPO'ed and we paid about $10,000 less than the MSRP.

[GregE_325]

They didn't offer me CPO during the negotiations and I didn't ask because didn't think the car would qualify -- it's technically not used because it went directly to a BMWNA exec. They offered me the 6yr/100k extended maintenance warranty for $1300 after the price was negotiated.

-- In general, can you get CPO coverage on a 2004 "brass hat" not sold before?

-- Regardless, would you pay the $1300 now for the extended maintenance warranty?

I asked about the vehicle history and apparently there has been no service performed the car because it's before any scheduled services -- 8k miles so far.

Yes, you can get the car CPO'd. The benefit of the CPO is the extended warranty, which is what they are offering you for $1300 separately. Obviously, you wouldn't need to purchase the warranty if you go the CPO route. However, you may do better if you are financing since the interest rates would probably be lower on a "new" car as opposed to a "used" CPO vehicle.

[GregE_325]

Wow, that car without CPO is worth much less than they are quoting.

We bought a 2003 brass hat a couple of months ago that had 13,000 miles on it. It was CPO'ed and we paid about $10,000 less than the MSRP.

There seems to be a misconception among many dealers that (for some reason) a brass hat car should cost a premium over any other type of "used" car. I ran into this situation last year when negotiating on a 325Ci that was driven by a certain BMWNA vice-president (who shall remain nameless).
Congratulations on getting that touring, by the way!

-- Greg

[PropellerHead]

Yes, you can get the car CPO'd. The benefit of the CPO is the extended warranty, which is what they are offering you for $1300 separately. Obviously, you wouldn't need to purchase the warranty if you go the CPO route. However, you may do better if you are financing since the interest rates would probably be lower on a "new" car as opposed to a "used" CPO vehicle.Clarification: The CPO is a WARRANTY. The extended MAINTENANCE is what they're offering you and that is NOT a warranty. It just ensures that your maintenance items like brakes, wiper blades and fluid chnages are no cost during the covered period.

$1300 is not really that great of a deal. IN fact, they're screwing you over $300 more than MSRP for a 4/50 6cyl to 6/100K upgrade. MSRP is $995. Check this thread (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49673&highlight=Extended+maintenance) from the "Ask a dealer" section and see what the maintenance upgrade covers and costs at MSRP.

[GregE_325]

Clarification: The CPO is a WARRANTY. The extended MAINTENANCE is what they're offering you and that is NOT a warranty. It just ensures that your maintenance items like brakes, wiper blades and fluid chnages are no cost during the covered period.

$1300 is not really that great of a deal. IN fact, they're screwing you over $300 more than MSRP for a 4/50 6cyl to 6/100K upgrade. MSRP is $995. Check this thread (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49673&highlight=Extended+maintenance) from the "Ask a dealer" section and see what the maintenance upgrade covers and costs at MSRP.

Good catch. I thought he meant just buying the extended warranty, and not the maintenance extension, but reading the previous post I see that I missed that. And $1300 is a bit on the high side, to say the least. At that price, it would be cheaper just to pay for the maintenance himself.

[kyfdx]

Hey Folks,

Another rookie here, about to put some money down for a 2004 330i "brass hat" with 8k miles on it already... wanted to do a sanity check with the experts in this forum. I'd appreciate any feedback and advice on the car, the deal and what I should be looking out for. Here are the specs:

330i
10k miles
premium package
sport package
auto transmission
fold down rear seats
heated front seats
park distance control
xenon lights
good condition
- some minor scratches and one small paint chip
- never been serviced

The dealer is selling at approximately $37k. The dealership is in the Bay Area.

Since the car is 2004 but not new, it's tough to price directly on the web. Edmunds shows a comparable 2003 330i for $36.4k (dealer retail TMV) while KBB shows a retail value of $38.7k. A brand new 2004 comparable 330i comes out to about $43.5k.

I've heard that there is some dealer cash for 2004 330i as well as demo allowances, so not sure what the true cost of the car is to the dealer.

Is this a good deal?

Anything to be wary of, esp. with brass hats driven by BMWNA execs?

What should I look out for at inspection before taking the car?
After the negotiation, I found some minor body wear and tear (scratches), so I'm wondering if there's other less cosmetic stuff I should check out.

Any other questions I should be asking?


Please let me know your thoughts, much appreciated!

Dealer invoice minus the incentive for this car brand new right now would be about $37K. So, it all depends on what you think 10K miles is worth.. Also, if you pull the vehicle history, you'll see that it already has an in-service date, meaning you've already used up part of the warranty period, as well as the mileage.

Most dealers don't CPO current model year cars, because they have lots of warranty left, and its not as big a factor for the buyer.. but, they CAN do it..

And the "brass hat" thing? Almost any employee of BMW NA can get a short term lease on a new car at a reduced rate.. This includes assembly line employees in Spartanburg. The car stays in BMWNA name and they cover the insurance as well.. Then, after 7K-10K miles they are shipped off to a closed BMW dealer auction. So, Bubba in SC could have been driving your car home to the trailer, not that it matters.

Considering that you could probably buy that car for $37.5K brand new, I would want to pay $34K at the most.

regards,
kyfdx

[kurichan]

Considering that you could probably buy that car for $37.5K brand new, I would want to pay $34K at the most. :stupid:

[Playaymar]

What they are quoting sounds high to me for the mileage. As was stated before, you could almost by new for that with the incentives. That price is real close for what I paid for mine new. (Different Options, though). Without CPO, I wouldn't touch it.

Just my .02 cents.


Good Luck.

[tmoody]

Similar Cars Are On Sale Around Here For Low 30's Many With Less Miles.

[SARAFIL]

Similar Cars Are On Sale Around Here For Low 30's Many With Less Miles.

There is a very important distinction that needs to be made here between the two types of "brass hats".

One is a "new" car-- this car has never been titled, and it is sold as a "new" car. It qualifies for all marketing allowance programs, special lease programs, and special financing available on that model at any given time. On these cars, you want to negociate the same way you would on a new car, and figure that the car is discounted approximately $0.25 per mile from the base invoice, depending on the car. These cars are usually not available with CPO.

The other type is a "used" car. These are sold as used because they've been titled. Generally, these are cars that have been in service for longer periods (~1 year, instead of a few months with the "new" brass hats). These cars are eligible to be sold CPO, and usually do not qualify for special new car promotions because they're usually a model year old by the time the dealer gets them. To price these cars, treat them just like any other used car of the same make/model/year/mileage.

So, when negociating on one of these cars, it is very important to ask the dealer what you are dealing with, a "new" car or a "used" car.

[kyfdx]

There is a very important distinction that needs to be made here between the two types of "brass hats".

One is a "new" car-- this car has never been titled, and it is sold as a "new" car. It qualifies for all marketing allowance programs, special lease programs, and special financing available on that model at any given time. On these cars, you want to negociate the same way you would on a new car, and figure that the car is discounted approximately $0.25 per mile from the base invoice, depending on the car. These cars are usually not available with CPO.

The other type is a "used" car. These are sold as used because they've been titled. Generally, these are cars that have been in service for longer periods (~1 year, instead of a few months with the "new" brass hats). These cars are eligible to be sold CPO, and usually do not qualify for special new car promotions because they're usually a model year old by the time the dealer gets them. To price these cars, treat them just like any other used car of the same make/model/year/mileage.

So, when negociating on one of these cars, it is very important to ask the dealer what you are dealing with, a "new" car or a "used" car.

I agree with this, but with another piece of advice.. I wouldn't take a car with 4000 miles on it for only $1000 less, even if it is "new". As with many other makes, the discount just isn't enough to make up for the miles, IMHO

[PropellerHead]

I agree with this, but with another piece of advice.. I wouldn't take a car with 4000 miles on it for only $1000 less, even if it is "new". As with many other makes, the discount just isn't enough to make up for the miles, IMHOMan, it is for me- 4K miles is ~8% of new car warranty miles and ~3.5% of CPO miles. $10K is near 25% the cost of a loaded 3 series. I know we're talking miles and dollars, here, but even if you went for depreciation $, that $10K takes a huge bite out of year one.

On the '04 X5, I saved over $10K (after taxes) and gained a CPO. On the '00 540, I saved over $10K (remember the luxo tax?) and also got a CPO. The X had 17K miles/ eight months in service and the 5 had 2,400 miles (not a typo) and four months in service.

[kyfdx]

Man, it is for me- 4K miles is ~8% of new car warranty miles and ~3.5% of CPO miles. $10K is near 25% the cost of a loaded 3 series. I know we're talking miles and dollars, here, but even if you went for depreciation $, that $10K takes a huge bite out of year one.

On the '04 X5, I saved over $10K (after taxes) and gained a CPO. On the '00 540, I saved over $10K (remember the luxo tax?) and also got a CPO. The X had 17K miles/ eight months in service and the 5 had 2,400 miles (not a typo) and four months in service.

Read it again.. I wrote $1000, not $10,000. The suggestion above was that $.025/mile was a good rule of thumb... 4000 X $.025 = $1000

I agree.. for $10K, it would be a no-brainer.

[PropellerHead]

Read it again.. I wrote $1000, not $10,000. The suggestion above was that $.025/mile was a good rule of thumb... 4000 X $.025 = $1000

I agree.. for $10K, it would be a no-brainer.OOps- sorry ab that- Decimals... DRAT! They are EVIL!

[skydeck]

I've decided not to move forward with this 04 330i brass hat.

After a handshake on the deal, there turned out to be several problems with the car on final inspection -- moonroof didn't work, etc. which had me concerned.

The dealership is in the South Bay and I had read complaints about its reputation and service, so this was enough reason to not move forward. You've got to feel 100% comfortable making a purchase like this and I wasn't.

Thanks to all the posters on this thread...

[wag-zhp]

Skydeck,

Since you're in the bay area, you really need to talk to Danny Andrade and/or Mark Hugret over at BMW Concord. They run the internet sales dept, and they are phenominal! They will work with you and make sure you get the car of your dreams, and at a price that you will be happy with.