wow! chin "antenna" trick really works...

[dorkus]

lately i've been using the "touch your key to your chin so your body acts as an antenna" trick to increase the range of the car key remote control. by itself, the remote is usually reliable only to about 30 feet or so, but with the "chin antenna" i've been locking, opening windows, etc. from well over 50 feet away.

tonight i parked my car on the rooftop of my apartment complex's parking garage (6th floor), but when i got back to my 8th floor apartment i couldn't remember if i had locked up or not. i really didn't want to go all the way back to the car to check.... i looked out my window and could see my car parked in the distance, so i said what the hell, pressed the key tip firmly to my chin, hit the lock button... and saw the car's interior lights turn on! talk about range... i'd estimate the car is between 150ft to 200ft away, and through my apartment's closed windows no less. the power of the key's RF transmtter (as well as the sensitivity of the car's receiver) is quite impressive, and the chin antenna really does the trick. :thumbup: saved me a good 10+ minutes going all the way to the car (and btw, i think i had locked it after all. :p)

[Dave 330i]

You're going to get brain damage from all those RF going through your head. :eeps:

[Desertnate]

This trick always amazes me. I find it pretty funny.

My oldest daughter is due for some braces soon...I will have her try it and see of that extra hardware will even improve range even more. :eeps: :D

[schreck]

Hahaha, that is great. I have never heard or thought of that idea. Pretty cool if you ask me !

Alex

[yamato]

My hypothesis is that this is because your skull is used as a reflective surface very much like a dish transmitter. The skull's shape is similar to a dish, so it focuses the power to a certain direction pretty well.

To partially prove it, I tried not facing the car, this trick did not work.

[JetBlack330i]

My hypothesis is that this is because your skull is used as a reflective surface very much like a dish transmitter. The skull's shape is similar to a dish, so it focuses the power to a certain direction pretty well.

To partially prove it, I tried not facing the car, this trick did not work.
No freaking way. :rofl:
I'll have to try it myself. But I'm going out on a limb here and saying that this has nothing to do with skull as a dish. :tsk:

[dorkus]

To partially prove it, I tried not facing the car, this trick did not work.

hm, very odd... never occurred to me that the trick was directional. i had just assummed it increased transmission efficiency... but you may be correct. i think when i first tried it from my apartment, i wasn't looking directly at the car, and nothing happened, but i kept trying while looking straight at the car and it eventually worked. very weird.

[Desertnate]

My hypothesis is that this is because your skull is used as a reflective surface very much like a dish transmitter. The skull's shape is similar to a dish, so it focuses the power to a certain direction pretty well.

To partially prove it, I tried not facing the car, this trick did not work.

So if you skull is working like a dish (will organic matter reflect RF like metal?) then where is the reflected energy leaving your body? Nose, eyes, mouth... :confused: :eeps:

:D :angel:

[spta97]

On other forums they say the trick is to open your mouth while looking at the target (car). I would really like to see a scientific study on this one.

[dorkus]

(will organic matter reflect RF like metal?)

i think most organic material will tend to absorb a little but mostly pass RF.

[Fast Bob]

So if you skull is working like a dish (will organic matter reflect RF like metal?) then where is the reflected energy leaving your body? Nose, eyes, mouth... :confused: :eeps:

:D :angel:
Has anyone tried this after consuming a couple of Breakfast Burritos ? It might increase your effective range....

Regards,
Bob

[operknockity]

You're going to get brain damage from all those RF going through your head. :eeps: We're already getting brain damage from using our cell phones and from watching microwaveable popcorn being nuked :D

[operknockity]

Has anyone tried this after consuming a couple of Breakfast Burritos ? It might increase your effective range.... :dunno: :dunno: :eek:

[rgzimmer]

It works if you poke it into your hip too. I use that trick so that I look less like a :fruit: than I do if I poke my chin with the key. :D

[yamato]

So if you skull is working like a dish (will organic matter reflect RF like metal?) then where is the reflected energy leaving your body? Nose, eyes, mouth... :confused: :eeps:

:D :angel:

i guess it works kind of like sound wave. It reflects off hard surfaces and penetrate soft material. The skull plays a big role in affecting how you can listen to a certain tone. It is not too surprising a skull can work like a dish for certain wave at a certain frequency. however, all this is just bs hypothetic guess just for fun. :)

[dorkus]

i guess it works kind of like sound wave. It reflects off hard surfaces and penetrate soft material. The skull plays a big role in affecting how you can listen to a certain tone. It is not too surprising a skull can work like a dish for certain wave at a certain frequency. however, all this is just bs hypothetic guess just for fun. :)

hehe, having studied EE in college i am fairly certain the propagation properties of mechanical sound waves vs. EM RF waves through a given medium are not related in any way whatsoever, but it was a nice try at an analogy nonetheless. :p but the body will tend act as a fairly decent antenna for RF - if you've ever adjusted a TV or FM radio antenna, you might have noticed the reception is usually better when you're in contact with it.

[LDV330i]

It works if you poke it into your hip too. I use that trick so that I look less like a :fruit: than I do if I poke my chin with the key. :D I'll have to try that one. I have always been very self conscious about putting my key up to my chin with a bunch of people around, lest they thing I am :loco:.

[Wolfcastle]

I only use it to check that I've locked my car in a parking lot at night. Pretty useless most other occasions. You don't want a couple of mormons waiting for you in your car. Creepy christians.

[nitram_luap]

I think that you were 'above' your car makes a big difference too. The range seems to be much greater if you are at a higher altitude than the car. This must have something to do with the location of the RF receiver in the car

Paul

[JetBlack330i]

hehe, having studied EE in college i am fairly certain the propagation properties of mechanical sound waves vs. EM RF waves through a given medium are not related in any way whatsoever, but it was a nice try at an analogy nonetheless. :p but the body will tend act as a fairly decent antenna for RF - if you've ever adjusted a TV or FM radio antenna, you might have noticed the reception is usually better when you're in contact with it.
Having studied EE as well, I agree with your antenna theory. It sounds much more plausible than yamato's.
To his credit though, he mentioned EM waves first (like TV dishes), then he mixed up and mentioned sound waves. :rofl:
But how do you explain yamato's claim that it didn't work when he wasn't facing the car?
Perhaps he didn't see it work? :p :rofl:

I tried to duplicate yamato's theory this morning in the parking garage. There were too many people there and I didn't want to look like a dork, so I gave up. :mad:

[MBR87]

Yep...when my dad got his 5-Series like 4 years ago the dealer told us about that little trick...been using it ever since

[dorkus]

I only use it to check that I've locked my car in a parking lot at night. Pretty useless most other occasions.

not at all! it's great for opening the windows on a hot day. it's kind of slow, but with the extra range you can have them completely rolled down by the time you get to the car. it's also good if, like me, you're forgetful and always ask yourself "did i really lock my car?" more than 30 seconds after you've already walked away from it... :rolleyes:

You don't want a couple of mormons waiting for you in your car. Creepy christians.

i'll grant you that. :yikes:

I tried to duplicate yamato's theory this morning in the parking garage. There were too many people there and I didn't want to look like a dork, so I gave up. :mad:

i understand. i gave up trying not to look like a dork many years ago though.

[yamato]

Perhaps he didn't see it work? :p :rofl:


:rofl: this reminds me a tricky question someone asked me:

Any one can explain why you see lightning first before your hear the thunder?

Think.... think harder man..

answer: it is because your eyes are in front of your ears. :thumbup:

[WBear]

:rofl: this reminds me a tricky question someone asked me:

Any one can explain why you see lightning first before your hear the thunder?

Think.... think harder man..

answer: it is because your eyes are in front of your ears. :thumbup:

:confused:
Couldn't it be that the speed of light is faster than the speed of sound? (by about 186000 miles a second)

[dorkus]

Couldn't it be that the speed of light is faster than the speed of sound? (by about 186000 miles a second)

yeah... i think it was a joke though. :p

[FenPhen]

Any one can explain why you see lightning first before your hear the thunder?

Think.... think harder man..

answer: it is because your eyes are in front of your ears. :thumbup:
Yeah... but your auditory processing is in the middle part of the brain (near your ears) but the visual processing is in the back of the brain away from the eyes. A joke, I know. :rolleyes:

[birdman3]

Why don't we all just get it over with and say the biggest words we know :p

[SoN][c]

My hypothesis is that this is because your skull is used as a reflective surface very much like a dish transmitter. The skull's shape is similar to a dish, so it focuses the power to a certain direction pretty well.

To partially prove it, I tried not facing the car, this trick did not work.


hehe. The phenomenon is actually known as capacitive coupling. I could go into details with formula's and all, but I'm sure that would put you to sleep :D.

Essentially the key and your body act like two plates of a capacitor separated by an electrical insulator (your clothes and skin). It will actually work if you press it against any part of your body that is relatively close to the conducting interior of your body. Your neck and butt should work too (although maybe not as well)!

Once this electrical connection is made, your body then acts as an antenna which increases the range of the signal.

I seem to remember making this post on another thread... talk about deja-vu!!

Anyways, Dorkus & JetBlack... I studied Elec Eng too... you guys should remeber this stuff!! :) :)

[JetBlack330i]

I'm not quite sure how the tip of a key and my body form any meaningfull capacitor. Worse, I can't feel (without mathmatical equations) how a capacitor increases the transmission range. If that could be proven, why didn't BMW simply added an extra capacitor in the key?
The part of the explanation that makes sense to me is that of my body becoming an antenna. But for that, I would need to be in (electrical) contact with the metal key blade. Trouble is, I tried putting the key on my thigh this morning, and it worked. Thick blue jeans are known to be bad electrical conductors, so... :dunno:

[dorkus]

[c']Anyways, Dorkus & JetBlack... I studied Elec Eng too... you guys should remeber this stuff!! :) :)

yeah, i know... :p well, i didn't do any RF, though i did take Analog, so i remember capacitive coupling... but no idea about RF propagation. :dunno:

[JetBlack330i]

Why don't we all just get it over with and say the biggest words we know :p
I'll start: unconstitutionalistically.

[JetBlack330i]

yeah, i know... :p well, i didn't do any RF, though i did take Analog, so i remember capacitive coupling... but no idea about RF propagation. :dunno:
Oh, I just realized SonIIc meant the RF signal is using the key blade as a transmission antenna and that signal jumps into my body, if it's close enough, through the air medium (capacitive coupling) and then uses my body as a bigger antenna. Hmmm... is that really possible? I'm no RF guy either (digital background).

[dorkus]

I'm not quite sure how the tip of a key and my body form any meaningfull capacitor. Worse, I can't feel (without mathmatical equations) how a capacitor increases the transmission range. If that could be proven, why didn't BMW simply added an extra capacitor in the key?

the capacitor effect doesn't enhance the transmission... i think he was just saying that's how the signal gets from the key to the conductive parts of your body (i guess your skeleton?).

Trouble is, I tried putting the key on my thigh this morning, and it worked. Thick blue jeans are known to be bad electrical conductors, so... :dunno:

it's frequency dependent. remember impedance? for a capacitor, it's inversely proportional with frequency... e.g. taking it to its limit approaching zero, the impedance of an ideal capacitor is infinite at DC (0Hz), which is why caps block DC. for a 60Hz power wave, a small capacitor (such as jeans would provide) would not conduct much. for a 315Mhz carrier signal, it doesn't take much capacitive coupling for the signal to travel through the dielectric (in this case denim). you also have to take into account dielectric factor/losses, leakage current, etc. but those are minor factors for something as rough as a key to your butt.

[JetBlack330i]

the capacitor effect doesn't enhance the transmission... i think he was just saying that's how the signal gets from the key to the conductive parts of your body (i guess your skeleton?).



it's frequency dependent. remember imedance? for a capacitor, it's inversely proportional with frequency... e.g. taking it to its limit approaching zero, the impedance of an ideal capacitor is infinite at DC (0Hz), which is why caps block DC. for a 60Hz power wave, a small capacitor (such as jeans would provide) would not conduct much. for a 315Mhz carrier signal, it doesn't take much capacitive coupling for the signal to travel through the dielectric (in this case denim). you also have to take into account dielectric factor/losses, leakage current, etc. but those are minor factors for something as rough as a key to your butt.
Yeah, I just realized that.
You don't have a longer word than mine, but if I put together all those nerdy words you used, you win. :rofl:

[SoN][c]

I'm not quite sure how the tip of a key and my body form any meaningfull capacitor. Worse, I can't feel (without mathmatical equations) how a capacitor increases the transmission range. If that could be proven, why didn't BMW simply added an extra capacitor in the key?

I am not saying that the capacitor is increasing the range. I'm saying that capacitive coupling is used to make an electrical connection between the transmitter in the key fob and the electrical core of your body.

Would you like the equations? :D



The part of the explanation that makes sense to me is that of my body becoming an antenna. But for that, I would need to be in (electrical) contact with the metal key blade.


The electrical connection is made by capacitive coupling. The increase in range is due to the electrial core of your body acting as an antenna, which is electrically connected to the transmitter of the key fob through capacitive coupling.



Trouble is, I tried putting the key on my thigh this morning, and it worked. Thick blue jeans are known to be bad electrical conductors, so... :dunno:


Correct. Thick blue jeans are insulators. An insulator between the two plates are required for capacitive coupling to work.


HTH

[dorkus]

i think he gets it now... :p

[SoN][c]

Oh, I just realized SonIIc meant the RF signal is using the key blade as a transmission antenna and that signal jumps into my body, if it's close enough, through the air medium (capacitive coupling) and then uses my body as a bigger antenna. Hmmm... is that really possible? I'm no RF guy either (digital background).


Well the keyblade is being used as one plate of the capacitor. The insulation, which is required for capacitive coupling to work, is your skin and your clothes. The second plate is the electrical core of your body.

[SoN][c]

i think he gets it now... :p

sorry, didnt see the other posts until just now.

[Salvator]

Why don't we all just get it over with and say the biggest words we know :pWhat a bunch of sesquipedalians... :confused:











<TABLE>*******>*******>*******><TR><TD>ses·qui·pe·da·lian http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fq%3DSesquipedalian) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (shttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gifshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifkwhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-phttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.giflhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifyhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifn)


n. <DL><DD>A long word.</DD></DL>


adj.

Given to the use of long words.
Long and ponderous; polysyllabic.

</TD></TR>********>********>********></TABLE>
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<TABLE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #3f3f3f 1px dotted" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>*******>*******>*******><TR><TD class=src>Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=ahd4): <CITE>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition


Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.</CITE>

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<!-- end ahd4 --><!-- begin wotd -->
Sesquipedalian

sesquipedalian was Word of the Day on October 25, 1999 (http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/archive/1999/10/25.html).


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<!-- end wotd --><!-- begin web1913 -->
Sesquipedalian

Sesquipedal \Ses*quip"e*dal\, Sesquipedalian\Ses`qui*pe*da"li*an\, a. [Sesqui- + pedal: cf. F. sesquip['e]dal, L. sesquipedalis.] Measuring or containing a foot and a half; as, a sesquipedalian pygmy; -- sometimes humorously applied to long words.


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<TABLE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #3f3f3f 1px dotted" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>*******>*******>*******><TR><TD class=src>Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=web1913): <CITE>Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.</CITE></TD></TR>********>********>********></TABLE>
<!-- end web1913 --><!-- begin wn -->
Sesquipedalian

adj 1: given to the overuse of long words; "sesquipedalian orators"; "this sesquipedalian way of saying one has no money" 2: (of words) long and ponderous; having many syllables; "sesquipedalian technical terms" [syn: polysyllabic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=polysyllabic)] n : a very long word (a foot and a half long) [syn: sesquipedalia (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sesquipedalia)]

[JetBlack330i]

Er... your post above was sesquipedalian. :neener:
He asked for big words, and yours only has 5 syllables. :lmao:

[Salvator]

Er... your post above was sesquipedalian. :neener:
He asked for big words, and yours only has 5 syllables. :lmao:How ironic... http://www.eastcoastbmw.net/modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/ohthedrama.gif

ironic

adj 1: humorously sarcastic or mocking; "dry humor"; "an ironic remark often conveys an intended meaning obliquely"; "an ironic novel"; "an ironical smile"; "with a wry Scottish wit" [syn: dry (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dry), ironical (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ironical), wry (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wry)] 2: characterized by often poignant difference or incongruity between what is expected and what actually is; "madness, an ironic fate for such a clear thinker"; "it was ironical that the well-planned scheme failed so completely" [syn: ironical (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ironical)]



;) :D

[jeffreyslc]

I only use it to check that I've locked my car in a parking lot at night. Pretty useless most other occasions. You don't want a couple of mormons waiting for you in your car. Creepy christians.
You don't know how funny this is :bustingup! I live in Utah. If you leave your house door unlocked you'll find them sitting on your living room couch when you get home.

I am sure I offended some people :eek: . Sorry about that but Wolfcastle brought it up.

By-the-way, if you clip them while they are on their bikes it is worth 100 points, and 50 points if they are walking :D .

[Fast Bob]

[QUOTE=jeffreyslc]You don't know how funny this is :bustingup! I live in Utah. If you leave your house door unlocked you'll find them sitting on your living room couch when you get home.


Yeah, but they don`t have much sense of humor....they got seriously pissed when I fired a warning shot over their heads....

Regards,
Bob

[solsurfr]

Funny thing, I was in line to get some grub and saw my car outside in the parking lot probably 100 feet away. So I chuckled, put the key to my chinny chin chin and whala, I locked my car. I busted up laughing and everyone in line was just staring at me. Pretty cool.

[imokruok]

Why don't we all just get it over with and say the biggest words we know :p


Antidisestablishmentarianism. :thumbup:

[JetBlack330i]

Antidisestablishmentarianism. :thumbup:
:confused:
Is that a real word?

[dorkus]

:confused:
Is that a real word?

yeah... i remember my cousin told it to me when we were kids. seems it's popular as a "i know a really really long word" in grade school.

[Salvator]

Antidisestablishmentarianism. :thumbup:
Supercallifragilisticexpialidocious... :rolleyes: ;)

[Spectre]

Supercallifragilisticexpialidocious... :rolleyes: ;)Yeah, but when you use that word, nobody thinks you're particularly brainy. :(

[Salvator]

Yeah, but when you use that word, nobody thinks you're particularly brainy. :(
That's just because the sound of it is really quite atrocious...

But if you say it loud enough, you'll always sound precocious... :D

[dorkus]

But if you say it loud enough, you'll always sound precocious... :D

perhaps, but i think i'm too old now to be considered precocious no matter what i do...

[Salvator]

perhaps, but i think i'm too old now to be considered precocious no matter what i do...
:rofl: I hear ya... I'm in the same boat... :banghead:

[yamato]

I am starting to feel uncomfortable without understanding the details on why this chin thing work.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, how many of you tried to verify this chin method is directional sensitive?

Eventually, if this dicussion doesn't go anywhere, I will start calling BMW NA to find out the answer. :p

[Salvator]

I am starting to feel uncomfortable without understanding the details on why this chin thing work.

If it makes you feel any better, I have known about this trick for years, prior to my purchase of my BMW... It works on my Land Rover as well, and works on a variety of other vehicles... The friend who told me about it used to unlock his Jeep Cherokee from across the parking lot for many years... It's nothing new, and undoubtedly no more hurtful than the rest of the radio, satellite and microwaves that are traveling through you EVEN NOW! IN FACT, I'D RECOMMEND THAT YOU RUN OUT RIGHT NOW AND WRAP YOUR HEAD IN ALUMINUM FOIL TO STOP THE RAYS FROM MELTING YOUR BRAIN!!!!!



;) (j/k)

[yamato]

If it makes you feel any better, I have known about this trick for years, prior to my purchase of my BMW... It works on my Land Rover as well, and works on a variety of other vehicles... The friend who told me about it used to unlock his Jeep Cherokee from across the parking lot for many years... It's nothing new, and undoubtedly no more hurtful than the rest of the radio, satellite and microwaves that are traveling through you EVEN NOW! IN FACT, I'D RECOMMEND THAT YOU RUN OUT RIGHT NOW AND WRAP YOUR HEAD IN ALUMINUM FOIL TO STOP THE RAYS FROM MELTING YOUR BRAIN!!!!!
;) (j/k)

The critical part I don't understand is 'power'. The remote produces certain power and touching it any where cannot increase this power. I thought it was the skull that directed the same amount of power into a certain direction. Hence increases the range. But you guys said it wasn't.. I cannot live without understanding it now. :mad:

[Salvator]

I cannot live without understanding it now. :mad:The Washington Post has a guy who writes a column, called "The Answer Man"... I'm sure he'd love to entertain your question and allay any health concerns you might have... I look forward to seeing your question in print in the paper! Good luck!

His contact info is:

Send queries to answerman@washpost.com (answerman@washpost.com). Or write The Washington Post, 1150 15th St. NW, Washington, D.C. 20071. </NITF>

[JetBlack330i]

Don't bother calling the Click and Clack from Car Talk.
Someone already asked that question and they made a fool of themselves.
They confused RF with IR. They said it works the same way as a TV remote. :rofl:

[yamato]

The Washington Post has a guy who writes a column, called "The Answer Man"... I'm sure he'd love to entertain your question and allay any health concerns you might have... I look forward to seeing your question in print in the paper! Good luck!

His contact info is:

Send queries to answerman@washpost.com (answerman@washpost.com). Or write The Washington Post, 1150 15th St. NW, Washington, D.C. 20071. </NITF>

Thanks. I am writing. I dont read Washingon Post so please let me know if you see my questions answered.

But how come washpost.com does not mention anything about this section? Are you just teasing me? :confused:

[Salvator]

But how come washpost.com does not mention anything about this section? Are you just teasing me? :confused:No, I'm not teasing you... now, would I do that?!... :angel: Truthfully, it is a real article, I think it comes out once a week... The guy who writes it (I beleive his name is John Kelly) recently took over a daily "Commentary / Area Happenings" type section on the comics page, and plays "Answerman" on Mondays, IIRC. I'll keep my eye open for your question and see if he can come up with an answer... :thumbup:

BTW, just to PROVE to you that I am not teasing you, here is an example of one of his articles... Enjoy!

http://www.wamadc.com/wama/washpostmarch.html

[yamato]

No, I'm not teasing you... now, would I do that?!... :angel: Truthfully, it is a real article, I think it comes out once a week... The guy who writes it (I beleive his name is John Kelly) recently took over a daily "Commentary / Area Happenings" type section on the comics page, and plays "Answerman" on Mondays, IIRC. I'll keep my eye open for your question and see if he can come up with an answer... :thumbup:

BTW, just to PROVE to you that I am not teasing you, here is an example of one of his articles... Enjoy!

http://www.wamadc.com/wama/washpostmarch.html

thanks. i sent an email to him last night. pm me when you see my (our) question on paper. :)

[Will_325i]

But how do you explain yamato's claim that it didn't work when he wasn't facing the car?
Perhaps he didn't see it work? :p :rofl:


Put me down as yet another EE. Anyway, I assume (key word) that absorption was involved.

Empirically, I have "proven" the chin trick to work. Some say it's false and the only reason it "helps" is because you're lifing the transmitter to a higher level than normal. NO! I've tried just lifing it without touching the chin and it doesn't work.

If someone sold an affordable, honest to goodness antenna BOOSTER, I would buy it !

[SoN][c]

I am starting to feel uncomfortable without understanding the details on why this chin thing work.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, how many of you tried to verify this chin method is directional sensitive?

Eventually, if this dicussion doesn't go anywhere, I will start calling BMW NA to find out the answer. :p


Did you read my post? I already explained it....

[Salvator]

thanks. i sent an email to him last night. pm me when you see my (our) question on paper. :)
I'll keep my eyes open for it! :thumbup:

[yamato]

[c']Did you read my post? I already explained it....

yes, but sorry I don't think that was sufficient to turn off my curiousity on this topic. I still can't use your theory to explain my observations, which are: this trick only increases the range in the direction I am facing, and I tried to use other part of my body, it didn't work.

oh btw, maybe when I feel like it, i can try one more thing to verify this capacitive coupling theory. Stick the key into my nose and check the range. This increases the contact area between the body and the key, hence should have a much better coupling effect. :rofl: :rofl:

[JetBlack330i]

yes, but sorry I don't think that was sufficient to turn off my curiousity on this topic. I still can't use your theory to explain my observations, which are: this trick only increases the range in the direction I am facing, and I tried to use other part of my body, it didn't work.
How did you prove that it only works in the direction you are facing? Did you have a helper next to the car to tell you if it worked when you're not looking at it?
I proved that it works when I touch my hip. Does it still matter where I'm facing? :dunno:

[yamato]

How did you prove that it only works in the direction you are facing? Did you have a helper next to the car to tell you if it worked when you're not looking at it?
I proved that it works when I touch my hip. Does it still matter where I'm facing? :dunno:
yes i had someone standing next to me to watch if the tail lights flashed. Or you guys can just use a mirror to try this.

[azurribaggio]

If it makes you feel any better, I have known about this trick for years, prior to my purchase of my BMW... It works on my Land Rover as well, and works on a variety of other vehicles... The friend who told me about it used to unlock his Jeep Cherokee from across the parking lot for many years... It's nothing new, and undoubtedly no more hurtful than the rest of the radio, satellite and microwaves that are traveling through you EVEN NOW! IN FACT, I'D RECOMMEND THAT YOU RUN OUT RIGHT NOW AND WRAP YOUR HEAD IN ALUMINUM FOIL TO STOP THE RAYS FROM MELTING YOUR BRAIN!!!!!



;) (j/k)

The SYNAPSE which runs through your brain is what extends the signal.

[Spectre]

The SYNAPSE which runs through your brain is what extends the signal.A synapse is neuron-neuron junction and you have many of them (I assume :rofl: ). However, the effect really works because of your spine. It's a nice vertical antenna of just the right wavelength. ;)

[jeffreyslc]

A synapse is neuron-neuron junction and you have many of them (I assume :rofl: ). However, the effect really works because of your spine. It's a nice vertical antenna of just the right wavelength. ;)

It is not synapses or spinal cords. The RF couples into your eye balls which act like parabolic directional antennas, which obviously explains why it works better if you are facing your car. If someone could 'see' RF there would be two beams shooting from your eyes to your car. ;)

[Iniquity]

I don't know the specifics of the bmw transmitter/reciever design.. but here's some basics of RF design/analysis to spur your imaginations further.

1. RF is effectively on the range of 300 MHz - 500 GHz (not sure about that upper bound). Typically, the higher the frequency the smaller the components because the wavelength decreases. (You should see the size of the diodes needed for a design at 2.4 GHz.. it's about the size of the "U" in the United States of America printed on the back of a penny).. Soo.. keeping this in mind, the size of the key, it would be safe to assume it's operating at RF levels.. but most likely not in the GHz range..

2. Don't worry about brain cancer and such... the amount of power being transmitted from the key is miniscule compared to your cell phone.

3. The human body is a horrible antenna. Humans are composed of mostly water, even your head. What this means is that the human body is a huge dielectric material. Dielectrics do reflect RF waves and also allow transmission. HOwever, depending on the dielectric material, all it does is introduce losses in power. Water is a poor dielectric for RF transmissions.. especially organic material. Your head will absorb most of the energy transmitted from the key. Where does this energy go? Simple, heat. This is how a microwave oven works, with one exception, it's tuned specifically for the frequency of water.

4. Why and how it works, I have no idea. I would need to study the human body. RF transmissions depend on transmission lines for their, uh, transmission. One such type is your coaxial cable for your tv. Another type is rectangular. I imagine this is what the head is mimicking. A rectangular waveguide is a hollow device, usually air filled (dielectric constant (permittivity) for freespace = 8.85x10^-12). This is a lossless case, so the incident power equals the transmitted power.. in other words, the reflection coefficient is zero. However, in our case, the skull/bones is the waveguide with the dielectric material being water and human flesh.. which has a high loss.. So in actuality, the power transmitted with the chin trick is less than what you would have if the key were pressed alone. However.. i'm guessing it's just more direct which is why it gives further range..(see below)

5. The body of the key itself is most likely used as the antenna, in which case it would be classified as a dipole type antenna. Although initially you will have less loss with just the key itself, dipole antennas are more subject to reflection because they transmit in multiple axes. Depending on the surrounding area, the actuall amount of signal that reaches the target varies. Ever notice that some times you have good range and other times you gotta be practically next to the car? Materials affect the planewaves significantly. So, although, like I stated above that less power is being transmitted when you use the chin trick, it is apparently on average more power, than what reaches your car after the scattering and reflecting losses takes its toll on when you use the key alone.

6. Finally, RF waves act more like optics than sound waves.... there are actually several common equations...

Again.. this is all theory on how it works.. i really would need to research the human body to find a definitive answer..

[Iniquity]

It is not synapses or spinal cords. The RF couples into your eye balls which act like parabolic directional antennas, which obviously explains why it works better if you are facing your car. If someone could 'see' RF there would be two beams shooting from your eyes to your car. ;)


you're actually probably not too far off... just incorrect terminology.... see above post..

[dorkus]

FYI, the key's transmitter carrier frequency is 315MHz, at least on my keys. it should be marked on the back.

[Iniquity]

FYI, the key's transmitter carrier frequency is 315MHz, at least on my keys. it should be marked on the back.


So it's just barely in the RF range...

hmmm.. so a relatively large wavelength... another theory..

the amount of power recieved is also highly dependent on "matched components"

i'm not sure where the recieve is for the car, or how big it's antenna is... but using the human body may also better match the transmitted wavelengths to the antenna. Antenna and waveguide geometry play huuuuuge roles in determing power transmission... geometry affects things such as polarity, wavelength, planwave directions, etc...

[dorkus]

So it's just barely in the RF range...

actually, strictly speaking RF can be as low as 10kHz. AM radio is only in the hundreds of kz after all, and clearly that is "radio." did you mean a specific RF band, e.g. UHF? i think 315Mhz actually falls between VHF and UHF... there is a gap of a couple hundred MHz used for various misc. services.

[Iniquity]

actually, strictly speaking RF can be as low as 10kHz. AM radio is only in the hundreds of kz after all, and clearly that is "radio." did you mean a specific RF band, e.g. UHF? i think 315Mhz actually falls between VHF and UHF... there is a gap of a couple hundred MHz used for various misc. services.


When I refer to RF i'm referring to microwave engineering design.. the propagation of planewaves... field magnitudes.. etc.. etc..

not audio/radio.... different.. yet kind of the same.. .

example.. just last year my team and I were designing two wireless power recievers.. one operating at 1 MHz.. which is considered to be analog and use lumped components.. and a second one operating at 2.45 GHz.. the RF design....

just different terminology I guess between radio/audio people and engineers?!?! :dunno: .. kind like how in math classes.. one variable means something different in physics.. :confused:

[JetBlack330i]

So, although, like I stated above that less power is being transmitted when you use the chin trick, it is apparently on average more power, than what reaches your car after the scattering and reflecting losses takes its toll on when you use the key alone.

:blah:
Still doesn't answer why the trick works.
Looks like you need a chin trick for all that theory. It's scattering and reflecting all over, but not reaching the target. :rofl:

[Fast Bob]

:blah:
Still doesn't answer why the trick works.
Looks like you need a chin trick for all that theory. It's scattering and reflecting all over, but not reaching the target. :rofl:

Simple....you need a "ZHP chin" for maximum range....
Line-of-sight and elevation (relative to the car`s position) will determine the range....I parked my car at the end of my driveway, about 135 ft. from the street, and 3-4 ft. above street level....I stood by the street, and touched the key to my chin....nada....but extending my arm straight up and using my open palm as a reflector, it worked fine.

Regards,
Bob

[Salvator]

Simple....you need a "ZHP chin" for maximum range....
I bet he can open BMW doors from across the state! :rofl:

http://www.brooksinternational.com/images/jay_leno.jpg

[msilva]

I bet he can open BMW doors from across the state! :rofl:


I bet Bruce could open doors in Europe.
http://www.bruce-campbell.com/images/books/cover-chins.jpg

[wag-zhp]

I bet he can open BMW doors from across the state! :rofl:

http://www.brooksinternational.com/images/jay_leno.jpg

:rofl: I almost posted the same thing! :rofl: :thumbup:

[Fast Bob]

I bet he can open BMW doors from across the state! :rofl:

http://www.brooksinternational.com/images/jay_leno.jpg

Scary fact : If you`ve ever seen her in profile, Drew Barrymore has Jay Leno`s chin....I bet she gives good range....

Regards,
Bob

[Salvator]

I bet she gives good range....
I bet she "gives" other things good, as well... :eeps: :slap: