Drove an '04 Honda Accord tonight

[rumratt]

Options: EX with Leather, automatic

Once again, a typical test drive (for me anyway) where it was short, had a salesman yapping the whole time, I was stuck in traffic for most of it. :rolleyes: But some impressions:

I think I may have had my expectations too high going in, because I was somewhat disappointed.

After being used to the 330, the throttle and steering seemed so over-sensitive that it was actually difficult to drive at first. You step on the gas and you lunge forward; rest your pinky on the steering wheel and you swerve right. At first I thought it was just becuase i'm so used to the BMW so anything different feels "weird", but then I realized that I drive our 94 accord occasionally and I don't feel that extreme. :dunno: I'm still guessing that it's just "different feels weird at first" syndrome.

The interior was supposed to be luxurious (for a Honda anyway), and I guess it was nice, but I still wasn't impressed. The leather was nice and all, and so were the heated seats, dual automatic climate control, 6-disk changer, etc, etc... but it actually seemed more cheaply built than our 94 honda. I got the impression that 4 years from now the inside will have rattles and feel horribly cheap, whereas the 94 still feels solid and has no rattles... it's beat up to all hell, but it doesn't feel or look "cheap".

The handling was hard to assess because of the sh!tty test drive, but I guess it was OK. Braking was definitely mediocre. Acceleration was tolerable, but also not impressive (althought the I had the wife in the car, and a chubby salesman in the back seat :eek: )

The front seat was very comfortable. That was a pleasant suprise. The back seat legroom was impressive also, and the trunk is huge. Of course, from the outside the car looks like ass (this current design sucks, but we're not about the bling).

That said, it looks like it's the wife's next car. She thought it was fine and had no complaints. :dunno: With the current discounts we should be able to get one one for $20K and change + tax, so that's hard to beat. (I emailed only 4 dealers and already had a quote for $21,300).

Neither of us desires the leather, but you need to get it to get the ass warmers, which she really wants. The leather package also gives you the side curtain airbags, which is my only required feature for her vehicle.

And that's all I can think of.

[EdCT]

but it actually seemed more cheaply built than our 94 honda. .

I believe this is true with the new Accords.

My '87 was built really well as was my wife's '92, the interior materials were first rate and built to last.

The '95 EX wagon was a definite step down in quality.

Cost cutting and de-contenting is the norm today, too bad.

As for the light controls, Hondas are being made to be easy to drive. My wife likes this as she feels my BMW's too difficult to drive. Of course I like the heavy controls and the deliberate stab I need to activate the throttle.

That new Honda 4 cylinder is a gem, though, no need for a six. And at 20 grand, how can you go wrong, it's the perfect, high-value, well made, appliance car.

Ed

[SONET]

I picked up a '04 Accord EX for my mom in January. She has hardly put 4,000 miles on it, but so far she loves it (although she kind of regrets not getting the Mini). I drove it to Carmel a couple weeks ago (5 hour drive) and it did really well. The mileage was outstanding for doing 85+ the whole way. No rattles yet, and certainly no problems. The build quality/materials could be better, but considering that her car has quite a few more features than mine (moonroof, seat warmers, in-dash changer, XM, etc.) for half the price, I don't think there's much room to complain.

One thing that still shocks me is when my 330 is parked next to it. Her coupe looks huge compared to mine - it must be 6-8" wider and a foot or more longer. Makes me wonder how big the next Accord will be. :eek:

Good luck with the new car, I'm sure it will do you well. :thumbup:

--SONET

[rumratt]

That new Honda 4 cylinder is a gem, though, no need for a six. And at 20 grand, how can you go wrong, it's the perfect, high-value, well made, appliance car.


Yeah, that's our logic. She actually said "It's the perfect car for me because I dont' give a crap about cars". :rofl:

My only concern is that we had a '99 Nissan Altima for a while, and that thing sucked. The steering was so light it was felt unstable to the point of being unsafe at highway speeds (she described it as "wobbly" handling) and it felt so cheap it was like you were driving a tin can.

If this car starts to make us feel like either of those, it will be very disturbing. This is my only hesitation.

[rumratt]

I drove it to Carmel a couple weeks ago (5 hour drive) and it did really well.

Cool, you're helping calm my fears mentioned in the post above this one.

I've read only good things about the gas mileage, and this generation of the 4-banger engine. :thumbup:

[HW]

that's because the accord that we get in NA is american built. your old accord was built in japan.

[Kaz]

that's because the accord that we get in NA is american built. your old accord was built in japan.

Not necessarily. Accords have been built in the US since '83. I think the first year that 100% of US-market Accords were built in Ohio was 98.

You'd have to look at the VIN of the old car to see if it's a US or Japan build. Unlike BMW, AFAIK the Japanese don't use domestic VINs on offshore-made cars, so it should be a reliable indicator.

And as much as the manufacturers say otherwise, there IS a difference in quality between the same car build in Japan vs the US.

[rumratt]

And as much as the manufacturers say otherwise, there IS a difference in quality between the same car build in Japan vs the US.

Yeah, but is this "difference" something you can feel by looking at the interior and driving it for 5 minutes? I would think build quality could affect things like rattles, reliability, etc.

But "initial cheap feel" is more related to the quality and design of the plastics, etc. This is independent of where they're assembled.

[HW]

And as much as the manufacturers say otherwise, there IS a difference in quality between the same car build in Japan vs the US.
my friend at the honda dealership had a japanese built accord and an american built accord side by side. both same generation (previous gen). he and his manager compared them and said that there was quite a noticeable difference in quality.

[EdCT]

If this car starts to make us feel like either of those, it will be very disturbing. This is my only hesitation.

I wouldn't worry about that one bit, Hondas are great cars and last and last. We still have our '95 after nine years and it's still screwed together tightly, I actually still like driving it from time to time (that's a lot of "stills").

Nissans, otoh, are cheap tin cans built just at the edge of acceptable cost cutting.......'nuff said.

Ed

[HW]

i remember that the 92-97 gen of preludes got top ranking for build quality and would not be surprised that the accord those years got similar quality... until they were built in NA.

[rumratt]

We still have our '95 after nine years and it's still screwed together tightly, I actually still like driving it from time to time (that's a lot of "stills").

I agree about the 94! It's amazing, the sucker just won't die, although things are SLOWLY starting to go now, which is what prompted the new car search.

Based on the positive experience with the 94, I'm willing to give honda our business on the 04. I'm just hoping that "Honda" still means at least 90% of what it did in 94.

[Kaz]

Yeah, but is this "difference" something you can feel by looking at the interior and driving it for 5 minutes? I would think build quality could affect things like rattles, reliability, etc.

But "initial cheap feel" is more related to the quality and design of the plastics, etc. This is independent of where they're assembled.

5 minutes? Probably not. 5 months? Maybe. Realize that it's more than assembly. The parts themselves come from different subcontractors, and in turn, the materials used in making the parts come from different sources. I have a friend at Honda who says that now, the US cars and parts are much better, but now, the quality improvements need to come in the UK (where Civic hatches and the current CR-V are made).

[rumratt]

One more thing. Driving this accord reminded me that, despite all of my complaining, I really do like my car. :thumbup:

[SONET]

The steering was so light it was felt unstable to the point of being unsafe at highway speeds (she described it as "wobbly" handling) and it felt so cheap it was like you were driving a tin can.
Maybe the wheels were out of balance / tires out of round on the Altima? :dunno:

I had the Accord up well above 100 for several minutes and felt quite comfortable (on a closed track, of course!). My mom was talking away and didn't even notice that we had gone past 80. I could be wrong but I don't think you'll have a problem in this department. It's no BMW, but for what it is I was pretty impressed.

--SONET

[BlackChrome]

My only concern is that we had a '99 Nissan Altima for a while, and that thing sucked. The steering was so light it was felt unstable to the point of being unsafe at highway speeds (she described it as "wobbly" handling) and it felt so cheap it was like you were driving a tin can.

If this car starts to make us feel like either of those, it will be very disturbing. This is my only hesitation.
I wouldn't worry about it. I have a '95 EX and my parents have a 2001 V6 and I don't have the 'cheap' feeling when I drive either one of them on the freeway. In fact, it's not even a big deal it when I drive mine at 90MPH... :D
that's because the accord that we get in NA is american built. your old accord was built in japan.
Part of the 4-cylinder US Accord Sedans are still built in Japan.

The first VIN# starts with '1' is built in USA while 'J' is built in Japan.
5 minutes? Probably not. 5 months? Maybe. Realize that it's more than assembly. The parts themselves come from different subcontractors, and in turn, the materials used in making the parts come from different sources. I have a friend at Honda who says that now, the US cars and parts are much better, but now, the quality improvements need to come in the UK (where Civic hatches and the current CR-V are made).
Exactly! This is why when it's time to get replacement parts for some Hondas, sometime it matters where the car was built. Believe it or not, US and Japan-built cars have different part numbers sometimes.

[PhilH]

Yeah, that's our logic. She actually said "It's the perfect car for me because I dont' give a crap about cars". :rofl:
Makes sense to me. Good choice. :thumbup:

Post pics when you get it! :eeps: :rolleyes: :D

[xspeedy]

Have you looked at the Mazda 6? They have a pretty attractive 5-door now. I don't think they have curtains yet, and that is probably the biggest drawback.

After driving a BMW, I think you are going to find it hard to accept anything else as a good car. I find cars that I would have loved to own just a couple years ago, to be garbage today.

[PhilH]

Have you looked at the Mazda 6?
I've suggested that to him at least a couple times and if I remember correctly, he drove a V6 model at some point. :dunno:

We're buying a 6 wagon at some point in the near term future to replace our Passat wagon.

[rumratt]

Post pics when you get it! :eeps: :rolleyes: :D

I don't want to put everyone to sleep. :bustingup

xspeedy, yeah, we did drive a Mazda 6 once. It was pretty nice actually. If you option up the Mazda-6 to be the same as the Accord, and consider the incentives on both cars, the price is almost exactly the same.

- The accord holds its value better
- The mazda is more fun to drive
- I guess Mazda reliability is good, but I can't see it being BETTER than the Accord (She REALLY cares about reliability).

I suggested driving the Mazda again and she said "The accord would be cheaper in the long run, possilby more reliable, looks better than the Mazda, and I think it drives fine. Why can't we just get it?"

Doh! I guess we'll just get it.

[PhilH]

"The accord would be cheaper in the long run, possilby more reliable, looks better than the Mazda, and I think it drives fine. Why can't we just get it?"
:yikes:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2004/Mazda/100388995/029916-E.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2003/Honda/100144773/004905-E.jpg

[rumratt]

:yikes:

What can I say. Women are irrational. :D


Honestly, I think the main reason is that we had great luck with this Honda, and she's just not in the mood to gamble with another vehicle just to gain some potential "driving fun" which she doesn't get anyway.

It kind of makes sense actually

[xspeedy]

After what my wife bought (before we were even dating), I'll never let her decide on what she gets to drive.

[rumratt]

After what my wife bought (before we were even dating), I'll never let her decide on what she gets to drive.

OK, what'd she buy? :eek:

[xspeedy]

The last generation (a 2000, to be exact) Toyota Camry LE V6 that is a blue-green color with a gray leather interior, and a spoiler on back. The fun part is that both third brake lights (one in the backlight, one in the spoiler) light up.

She could have bought worse, but I can't stand the Camry. It is just too big, too frumpy, too cushy riding... It is a grandma car. She really needs to drive something a little more younger and a little more driveable.

[gojira-san]

She could have bought worse, but I can't stand the Camry. It is just too big, too frumpy, too cushy riding... It is a grandma car. She really needs to drive something a little more younger and a little more driveable.
I was waiting for someone to bring up the Camry! All my wife buys is Toyota. She missed that generation Camry but has had an 88, 96 and now an 02. Before that she had a 78 and 82 Corolla (bought new; we are on the wrong side of 40 :) )

As mentioned in this thread concerning Hondas, but the same or worse with Toyota, I find them competent enough but soulless. Well, the 96 was pretty crummy even by their standards -- bad brakes and very numb steering (and it was a built in Japan one). The 02 is OK -- it has a V6 which was a step up for my wife (always bought the 4 but got a good deal on it). She is a point A to B person and loves the car. I can't wait to get out of it! To give equal time, she hates riding in the 330 (too low, too small, too stiff riding, doesn't like the seats, "a standard transmission - that's dumb", and "why is the radio angled towards you?" :rofl: )

[rumratt]

Well, it's all over folks. We bought it.

Of course, once we signed we were told that the car wouldn't be preped until Friday. WTF? :tsk: I was going to complain, but I just didn't have the energy. They also gave us a hard time about trying to use our own financing, but finally admitted that it would be OK.

Here are the details: 2004 Accord EX-L Auto, 4-cylinder. Silver exterior, black leather interior.

Paid: $20,995 (includes dest)
MSRP: $24,940
Invoice: $22,350

It's still not clear that it wouldn't have been better to wait 1 month and buy a 2005 at just over invoice, but ~$1400 under invoice is good enough for me. It's less money now, and we plan to keep it a long time so it should work out the same in the end.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. :thumbup:

[BlackChrome]

Here are the details: 2004 Accord EX-L Auto, 4-cylinder. Silver exterior, black leather interior.

Paid: $20,995 (includes dest)
MSRP: $24,940
Invoice: $22,350

It's still not clear that it wouldn't have been better to wait 1 month and buy a 2005 at just over invoice, but ~$1400 under invoice is good enough for me. It's less money now, and we plan to keep it a long time so it should work out the same in the end.

That's a great deal! :thumbup:

Did you trade in the '94? If so, how much did you get?

Now, why would you have to wait for a month for the 2005? At my work, we received the first shipment of 2005 Sedans 2 or 3 weeks ago...

[rumratt]

Did you trade in the '94? If so, how much did you get?


The dealer offered us $300-500 for it :rofl: so I declined. I'm either going to sell it privately or donate it to charity. The deduction (based on "clean" blue book value) might be almost as much as I'd get for selling it. Between needing a timing belt and the big rust spot, it's a tough sell.


Now, why would you have to wait for a month for the 2005?

I was guessing that they'd be selling closer MSRP until the 2004's are gone. Maybe that's incorrect. :dunno:

[gojira-san]

They also gave us a hard time about trying to use our own financing, but finally admitted that it would be OK.Yeah prob because they have some % deal with the finance company so they make a few $$ more.

Congrats on finally getting the car though! :thumbup:

[PhilH]

Wow, that's a good price for an EX-L. Under invoice, eh?

When I suggested an Accord, my wife actually vetoed it, but she likes the Mazda 6. Go figure.

I've been driving my brother's '96 Accord LX a bit recently while he's in Japan...man that thing drives like a tired old car (and it only has 65k miles on it). A new 2004 EX-L has got to be a major step up for your wife. Congrats on the new car. :thumbup:

[rumratt]

Thanks guys!

gojira-san, yeah, they definitely want you to use their financing. That's fine, but they are so freaking annoying about it. Nothing is straight forward, it's all "oh, those 'draft checks' are so difficult to process", and "well, we can go with that but it may delay you getting the car". :flipoff:

Phil, yeah, it seems like a good price to me. I mailed about 10-12 dealers and got 4 responses. I think they were something like the following:

20,995
21,198
21,498
22,900

Or something like that. It's definitely a good price, but if for some reason we need to sell in the next 3-4 years, we may have been better with a 2005. We're only $1360 under invoice and I don't think the 2005 had much of a price increase. But given that a) this reduces the amount we need to pay NOW, and b) we will likely keep the car at least 5-6 years, I think it was a wise choice.

[bmw325]

Congrats! FWIW, my favorite Accord was the 90-93? (The one that came right after the pop-up headlight gen). They have great exteriors, and interiors, and everything feels solid. The steering was tight and the handling was decent.

[blueguydotcom]

Options: EX with Leather, automatic

Once again, a typical test drive (for me anyway) where it was short, had a salesman yapping the whole time, I was stuck in traffic for most of it. :rolleyes: But some impressions:

I think I may have had my expectations too high going in, because I was somewhat disappointed.

After being used to the 330, the throttle and steering seemed so over-sensitive that it was actually difficult to drive at first. You step on the gas and you lunge forward; rest your pinky on the steering wheel and you swerve right. At first I thought it was just becuase i'm so used to the BMW so anything different feels "weird", but then I realized that I drive our 94 accord occasionally and I don't feel that extreme. :dunno: I'm still guessing that it's just "different feels weird at first" syndrome.

The interior was supposed to be luxurious (for a Honda anyway), and I guess it was nice, but I still wasn't impressed. The leather was nice and all, and so were the heated seats, dual automatic climate control, 6-disk changer, etc, etc... but it actually seemed more cheaply built than our 94 honda. I got the impression that 4 years from now the inside will have rattles and feel horribly cheap, whereas the 94 still feels solid and has no rattles... it's beat up to all hell, but it doesn't feel or look "cheap".

The handling was hard to assess because of the sh!tty test drive, but I guess it was OK. Braking was definitely mediocre. Acceleration was tolerable, but also not impressive (althought the I had the wife in the car, and a chubby salesman in the back seat :eek: )

The front seat was very comfortable. That was a pleasant suprise. The back seat legroom was impressive also, and the trunk is huge. Of course, from the outside the car looks like ass (this current design sucks, but we're not about the bling).

That said, it looks like it's the wife's next car. She thought it was fine and had no complaints. :dunno: With the current discounts we should be able to get one one for $20K and change + tax, so that's hard to beat. (I emailed only 4 dealers and already had a quote for $21,300).

Neither of us desires the leather, but you need to get it to get the ass warmers, which she really wants. The leather package also gives you the side curtain airbags, which is my only required feature for her vehicle.

And that's all I can think of.

Guessing this was a 4 cylinder? The v6 6 speed stick Accord imho is smoother and feels far better than the engine/tranny combo on my ZHP. Better interior too, in my eyes.

Basically the big downfall of the Accord to me would be spongy handling and FWD. Otherwise, I feel it's a better made car with a far superior engine/tranny. Especially for 23k loaded.

[rumratt]

Got the car tonight. After a short test drive:

- OMG, this car is huge. The rear leg room and trunk are impressive!

- The steering, throttle, and brakes are still way too touchy IMO.

- The sound system in the accord is far better than the HK in my 330. :tsk:

[Alex Baumann]

Congrats rumratt ! :thumbup:

[Kaz]

Congrats! FWIW, my favorite Accord was the 90-93? (The one that came right after the pop-up headlight gen). They have great exteriors, and interiors, and everything feels solid. The steering was tight and the handling was decent.

A friend of mine bought a 91, I think, recently as a beater (IMO he should daily-drive his E36). It used to be a Honda mechanic's daily, so despite 200k+ on the clock, it seems to be in really good shape. I've always liked its looks (especially 90-91 with the wider taillights) and they drive pretty solid. They do have a bit of a design flaw in that the factory spoilers on the SE (and the loads of dealer-added ones back then) all whack into the power antenna. :tsk:

[AF]

Congrats on the new car Matt ... I am a HUGE Honda fan !!!



Please post some pics of the exterior and interior ...

[pdz]

Got the car tonight. After a short test drive:

- OMG, this car is huge. The rear leg room and trunk are impressive!

- The steering, throttle, and brakes are still way too touchy IMO.

- The sound system in the accord is far better than the HK in my 330. :tsk:

it's a nice car. no doubt about it. amazing quality interior for $20,000. if you step out of your accord and into, say, a C-class or a z4, it really puts the cost-what you get equation on its head.

i think the 4 banger is pretty peppy, too. 160hp ain't shabby. it's zippy even with the auto. i was thoroughly impressed after a recent test drive. but my mother wanted the CR-V. 'told her i'd buy her whatever she wanted and it was down to those two. i really like the accord far, far, far better, but she preferred the higher seating position.

i came away from that experience with a renewed appreciation for how well honda builds their accords.

nice work, on the price, btw.

[rumratt]

Long term report:

My wife loves the car, and we're happy with the purchase. She will never own a car without heated seats again. I think they're nice, but whatever. I'm not usually cold so they don't thrill me.

But there's one reason I could never drive this car daily: the steering. It's really weird because it's very light compared to my E46 (expected) but it also has a very strong tendency toward the center. If you let go of the wheel, it really flies back to center, making it easy to swerve a bit unintentionally when driving down the highway.

Some may say, "You're just used to your E46, and you've become a BMW snob.". But ironically, I drove the old '94 accord last night back to back with the 2004. It's truly amazing how much better driving feel the '94 has. I'm honestly much more comfortable driving the '94 than the '04. The steering is less boosted, and it is more linear, without this retarded boost toward center. I find the seating and arm positioning more natural in the '94 also.

In terms of braking, neither accord got it right. In the '94, you need to push the brakes very hard before any substantial braking occurs (it's always been this way). In the 2004, 80% of the braking force occurs in the first 0.5" of pedal movement. Drive them back to back and you'll give yourself whiplash the first time you hit the brakes in the 2004. How hard is it to make nice linear braking? :dunno:

Two conclusions:

1) She likes the car, so we're happy with the purchase. I just don't love driving it.

2) It remindes me how I shouldn't complain about my car so much. It gets a LOT of things right.

[PhilH]

You're keeping the '94 too? Beater?...

[rumratt]

You're keeping the '94 too? Beater?...

Too lazy to place an ad so far. :tsk:

Want to buy it? :D

[PhilH]

I can't even bring myself to exercise my brother's '96 Accord LX while he's away like I'm supposed to. :eeps: Too bad his '66 Mustang is in pieces and I'm not charged with giving it some exercise. :tsk:

[EdCT]

But there's one reason I could never drive this car daily: the steering. It's really weird because it's very light compared to my E46 (expected) but it also has a very strong tendency toward the center. If you let go of the wheel, it really flies back to center, making it easy to swerve a bit unintentionally when driving down the highway.



.
Ours does this as well, I suspect there's a lot of castor designed in for the masses.

My wife likes the light steering of the Accord (she has carpel tunnel), finding my 323 too difficult for her to drive.

She also likes the Accord's large glass area while I find the BMW's cocoon-like envelope more to my liking.

Different strokes.

Ed

[rumratt]

Ours does this as well, I suspect there's a lot of castor designed in for the masses.


Yeah, I guess. But it takes a suprising amount of effort to hold the wheel through a turn, to prevent it from going back to center. :confused:



I can't even bring myself to exercise my brother's '96 Accord LX while he's away like I'm supposed to.

Yeah, the new car novelty has already worn off and (at my request) we take the 330 whenver we go somewhere. Too bad, too, because I'm going to hit 50K miles before 4 years for the warantee.