Tomorrow official 1 Series presentation at the dealers

[Alex Baumann]

I'm going. Even a short test drive is in. :eeps:

[mng]

i'd be interested in your impressions....

[Ikki]

I went to my local dealers 1 series launch at the Lowry centre in Manchester tonight (Friday 17th). Champagne followed by a cabaret, then a chance to see and sit in a selection of models. They had a 120d sport with the aero kit, 18" split rims, leather and bi-xenon headlamps. A mere £27,000!! but it looked good.

They announced test drives from Saturday, though I drove the 120d sport two weeks ago, soon after the demonstrators arrived at the dealer. Direct comparison with the Audi A3 120Tdi sport strongly favoured the BMW with much better steering and superior handling. The ride in the Audi was quite harsh over bumps and pot holes (we have lots of both here) and I found the sports seats to be uncomfortable in the A3, there was more space in the A3 but folding the rear seats did not give a smooth load area, unlike the BMW.

Oh yes..... They gave away a prize of a free 116i for a year at the launch, I did't win :cry: What's new there then.

[andy_thomas]

I went to my local dealers 1 series launch at the Lowry centre in Manchester tonight (Friday 17th). Champagne followed by a cabaret, then a chance to see and sit in a selection of models. They had a 120d sport with the aero kit, 18" split rims, leather and bi-xenon headlamps. A mere £27,000!! but it looked good.

Christ, what a joke. And an unfunny one, at that. Still, thousands upon thousands of cash-rich, intelligence-poor Britons will buy them in droves. For £27k I'll have a 330i, thanks.

[Dr. Phil]

I'm going. Even a short test drive is in. :eeps:
Lucky bastard :mad:

:p ;)

[Patrick]

My dealership is having the same spectacle today and tomorrow. With the weather we are having, I am not going. Anywhere for that matter.


.

[Alex Baumann]

So, I'm back. I didn't take any photos, for almost every details have been posted here on the board before.

Now to the impressions

Exterior
The car is looking weird in person. The fascia is 'nice', the rear could be from any manufacturer. The profile is holding clues from the Z4 and the 5 Series. Overall it has a sculpturesque posture. It is nice from certain angles, but ugly from others.

Interior

The most disappointing part of the car. Plastic, I mean cheap plastic is dominating the interior. I know that this car is meant to be the entry level model of the family, but the prices are telling just another story. The E46 was also a victim of cost cutting measures, but this one is another step down. I hope the automotive industry will develop better interior materials for the future, or we are definitely going back to the 70s in the next 3 Series (not the E90, but the one after)

The seats are comfortable, the leather felt good (at least it was better than Montana).

Although the car is a four door (actually five, if you count the rear hatch too), the rear seating space is very limited. If the front seats are generously adjusted, there is no way that someone could sit in the rear seats. The headroom in the rear sucks is not optimal too.

I have extensively played with the I-Drive (about 20 mins or so) until one of the sales guys kindly kicked me out of the car. It's the V2.0 (same interface that comes on the E60) with a few extra menus, like the oil check etc. The menus were fast and in those 20 mins, it didn't hang or I didn't have to reboot it. But again, too many submenus. It's more than I'd like to have. I would want to have a separate radio/cd unit and the I-Controller exclusively for the NAV and configuration related menus.

I have to admit that I liked where the NAV display is. You can check it with the corner of your eye while driving, unlike in my car, where I need to look down. The pop-up monitor is the same that came in the Z4. Now the double hunch in the E60 and E65 (probably in the E90 too) is making more sense, since the readability of the pop-up screen is limited when you are getting direct sunlight.

Engine

I definitely wanted to drive the 120d with the new 4 cylinder turbo diesel engine. As expected, it didn't disappoint me. It's a great cruiser with an unbeatable consumption. I was getting 40-47mpg on the surrounding highway. I won't comment on the performance figures, but it's fast enough. The good ol' turbo lag is there.

Driving Dynamics

The driving feeling was slightly better than my 320d. I forgot to ask whether it had the sports suspension or not, but it was taking the corners more smooth than the E46. Overall it's a 'small' 3 Series.

Alex's Conclusion

As a concept, the 1 Series in not bad, but I am not sure if BMW really needed to cover this market segment. IMHO, the quality suffered a lot, and BMW is demanding extraorbitant prices for a well-equipped 120i or 120d. The car I have driven had a EUR 38.000 price tag ($45.900) My 320d (with NAV and auto A/C) costed EUR 33.500 ($40.500) and it's a full sedan with 'real' 4 doors.

I'm with Andy. Everyone will complain and bitch on the prices, but it will sell like hot cakes. But no penny from me, I'd rather have a dealer demo 330d with almost 20% off the sticker price.

[johnf]

I checked out the 1-series on rollout day down at the old harbor. Much as I would love to buy a car its size, this one isn't going to be it.

If someone else were footing the bill, I could get over the pressboard and plastic, but its lack of interior room is a little more than I can accept. Here, for example
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/1er_rear_seat_sm.gif (http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/1er_rear_seat.gif),
is what's left for the rear passenger if you put a 185 cm (6' 1") person in the driver's seat.

What you see above is a 2+2 car with five doors, and, arguably, a reductio ad absurdum example of stuffing rear wheel drive into the Golf class. It will make you appreciate just how much space is saved with front wheel drive and a transversely-mounted engine, if, like me, your understanding turned out to have been mostly theoretical. It will probably also install even more awe and respect for the original Morris Mini, and give you some inkling of just how revolutionary it was the day it was introduced.

When you get down to it, this car is an automotive evolutionary regression, an anachronistic recapitulation of an earlier form in a later epoch, to propagate the BMW trinity of an inline engine, equal weight distribution, and rear wheel drive. I would not be surprised if the species and evolutionary line dies outs – if it doesn't fill a niche and sell very nicely.

The Morris Mini's descendent is looking better to me every day.

Needless to say, just my two cents ($0.024) worth.

[swchang]

Until I see it in person and test drive it, I'm still fairly convinced that I'd love a 120d as a daily driver. An M1 with SMG would be heavenly.

[johnf]

Until I see it in person and test drive it, I'm still fairly convinced that I'd love a 120d as a daily driver. An M1 with SMG would be heavenly.If BMW were to drop a lower entropy S54 engine up front, remove the back seat and enlarge the cargo area, to create a Z1 M coupe, I would very strongly reconsider my verdict from yesterday.

Hmmm. If BMW could take care of the engine, the rest probably would not be so hard. :)

[Kaz]

If BMW were to drop a lower entropy S54 engine up front, remove the back seat and enlarge the cargo area, to create a Z1 M coupe, I would very strongly reconsider my verdict from yesterday.


Now THAT is an idea. IMO it would be far more of a E36/7/8 successor than the E85.

[andy_thomas]

I checked out the 1-series on rollout day down at the old harbor. Much as I would love to buy a car its size, this one isn't going to be it.

If someone else were footing the bill, I could get over the pressboard and plastic, but its lack of interior room is a little more than I can accept. Here, for example
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/1er_rear_seat_sm.gif (http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/1er_rear_seat.gif),
is what's left for the rear passenger if you put a 185 cm (6' 1") person in the driver's seat.

A picture really is worth a thousand words sometimes...

[johnf]

As you can see, he was still adjusting the seat. The next exposure shows even less rear leg room.

[Alex Baumann]

'nother one

[xspeedy]

So the Cooper is really the car to get. What is the point of the rear doors when there is no back seat anyway? The Coop is much cheaper too, and probably has more personality.

[johnf]

Alex, did you notice how the brochure has no pictures of the back seat? It also omits all legroom dimensions, however, BMW has been doing that for years.

[johnf]

So the Cooper is really the car to get. What is the point of the rear doors when there is no back seat anyway?Under certain conditions there is a back seat, but, yes, that was my question exactly.

BTW, the rear doors are similarly tight (that is, narrow) to fit the available space. You know the scuff marks people leave on the inside bottom of long coupe doors from climbing in and out within narrow parking spaces? I suspect the 1er will collect similar marks at the C-pillar from people climbing in and out of the back seat.

Though I admire their faith, I still think BMW sacrificed a bit too much to stay true to their engine / weight balance / rear drive trinity, at least in a five-door. A Z1M coupe variant, however, would be a completely different matter – and a great danger to my bank account.

[Alex Baumann]

Alex, did you notice how the brochure has no pictures of the back seat? It also omits all legroom dimensions, however, BMW has been doing that for years.

John, funny you mention that but I was thinking about the same thing as I was looking at the brochures the other day. There are lots of exterior photos, dash photos but virtually no photos of the rear room.

[gojira-san]

As you can see, he was still adjusting the seat. The next exposure shows even less rear leg room.I can see the specs now: 4 small people or 2 large people and 2 paraplegics... :eek:

(sorry had to say it :rolleyes: )

Reminds me of the press shots when the Citroen SM was released. They used a 5' 1" model I believe to make the rear seat look habitable.

[Warot]

Don't tell me that I didn't say it, cause I did.... I told you the interior was VERY cheap. The rear leg room is pretty pathetic, but if you are an average guy (let's say 5"8 or 180), then you can fit a small person in the back, although probably not for a long time... I think this car was made for singles only... that doesn't have friends or women... :rofl:

[nate]

The car I have driven had a EUR 38.000 price tag ($45.900)

That's outrageous.

An base M3 goes for $47,300. :dunno:

[Alex Baumann]

That's outrageous.

An base M3 goes for $47,300. :dunno:

Yes, it was that much expensive. I'm glad that there are very nice other alternatives. In the compact class FWD or RWD is not a big deal, IMO.

The price doesn't justice the RWD markup in the 1 Series (at least not for me).

[hector]

[QUOTE=Alex Baumann] In the compact class FWD or RWD is not a big deal, IMO.

alex, when you say it's not a big deal do you mean in terms of driving enjoyment? if so i'm not sure why the issues of f/r weight distribution, torque steer etc. are diminished in importance in a smaller car. i'm sure that you write from experience and would be curious to see you expand your thoughts. thanks!

[Alex Baumann]

Hector,

I have driven various compact cars over the last 15 years. And lately I have test driven the MINI.

From the driving dynamics point of view, the new generation FWD cars up to a certain horsepower are not worse than their RWD counterparts (bear in mind that RWD in the compact class is very rare)

My latest FWD car was a Ford Focus. It was one of the best handling (compact) cars that I have ever driven. It had a well-balanced suspension and the cornering was great. Believe it or not, but I feel the weight in my 3 Series much more than I did in the Focus.

So, this is the reason why I'm not sold on the 1 Series.

[RSPDiver]

Question for some of you guys in Europe: how do these prices compare with similar vehicles over there? Like the Audi (A3?), Golf, Renaults, Seats, etc. My guess is that they undercut the prices significantly, while offering very similar, if not greater (read: WRC bred) performance in many cases. Looks like BMW is trying to make 1 +1 = 5.

my .02

[Axcu]

Finland:

BMW 1-series
116i .. 27 900€
120i .. 35 200€
118d .. 31 200€
120d .. 36 900€

AUDI A3 Sportback
1.6 .. 26 200€
2.0 .. 34 700€
1.9tdi .. 30 200€
2.0tdi .. 33 550€
2.0tq .. 42 250€
etc.


Euro>USD conversion rate at about 1€ = $1.22 currently.

[andy_thomas]

Question for some of you guys in Europe: how do these prices compare with similar vehicles over there? Like the Audi (A3?), Golf, Renaults, Seats, etc. My guess is that they undercut the prices significantly, while offering very similar, if not greater (read: WRC bred) performance in many cases. Looks like BMW is trying to make 1 +1 = 5.

my .02

Good question. And the answer will be more valid than comparing an on-the-road sticker price, inclusive of purchase and use taxes, registration, delivery and a host of Euro-only options to the tax etc.-exclusive invoice price of a stripper at a US dealership somewhere.

On this basis the 1 series is merely very expensive, rather than outrageously so. It has not much dynamic advantage - save the ability to power oversteer! - over the Astra or Focus, and its build is no better than the Golf or A3. The options list is frightful - giving you the prospect of a 115 hp four-pot diesel version costing £26k when you load it up with stuff which isn't even available on other cars.

Like a lot of BMWs - though dealers won't like this advice! - you are better off equipping it with the basics, resisting the temptation to load it with £7k's worth of bling (none of which improves performance or driving satisfaction*) and enjoying the good bits. On this basis, assuming you can live with the concept of a four-door, two-seater car, it's probably not *that* bad value, given the good residuals we expect. And the 120d, in any form, is at least as quick as most other manufacturers' two-litre *petrol* turbos.

* The 5er is a case in point - short of the M5, everyone agrees that the base model with 16" wheels and no electronickery is by far the best drive.

[hector]

Hector,

I have driven various compact cars over the last 15 years. And lately I have test driven the MINI.

From the driving dynamics point of view, the new generation FWD cars up to a certain horsepower are not worse than their RWD counterparts (bear in mind that RWD in the compact class is very rare)

My latest FWD car was a Ford Focus. It was one of the best handling (compact) cars that I have ever driven. It had a well-balanced suspension and the cornering was great. Believe it or not, but I feel the weight in my 3 Series much more than I did in the Focus.

So, this is the reason why I'm not sold on the 1 Series.


thanks for the response, i'm going to be in the market for a sporty compact soon and was disappointed that the 1er wasn't coming to the u.s. anytime soon mainly because of it being rwd, i'll refocus my interest to the fwds; gti, a3,etc, thanks again!

[MikeC]

I drove 120d with the sport suspension and with the leather sport seats. I really liked the exterior and interior, my 325 started to look old after the testdrive. There were some cheap materials in interior, but nothing too bad, glovebox was terrible. It drove really nice, better than 3-series with or without sport suspension. But the car I drove had over 9000e worth of options, so it was not a "basic" 1-series. You should drive this car on curvy country roads, it is exceptional.

Pictures of 1-series and its competitor A3. I think that 1-series interior looks much better and has better quality feeling.

120d:
http://members.carfreaks.net/juha1/120d/120d_03.jpg

A3:
http://members.carfreaks.net/juha1/a3/a3_04.jpg

Pictures(not taken by me):
120d (http://members.carfreaks.net/juha1/120d/)

Audi A3 (http://members.carfreaks.net/juha1/a3/)

[Ikki]

It seems to be great sport to slag off the 1 series, especially by current BMW owners.

This comment is especially pointless:

thousands upon thousands of cash-rich, intelligence-poor Britons will buy them in droves. For £27k I'll have a 330i, thanks.

Firstly it is insulting to many people. Considering that the reputation of BMW drivers in the UK is not terribly good, this is somewhat uncalled for.

I don't think that the majority of 1 series will be kitted up to this price level, most will be not much more expensive than equivalents such as the Audi A3. Secondly, most prospective 1 series buyers will be in the market for a hatchback and just wouldn't consider a saloon such as the one mentioned. Most buyers would not like the fuel consumption or insurance costs of this car either.

Having driven many front wheel drive cars over the last 25 years, including some high performance ones as well as some rear wheel drive, the RWD driving experience provided by the 1 series is definitely better than the FWD opposition when pressing on. The FWD/RWD argument disappears when normal commuting or city travel is considered.

The argument about space in the back is somewhat pointless. It's not meant to be huge in this area (as stated by BMW themselves). If you want a huge rear go buy a Volvo estate.

For one of the many buyers who are in the market for a premium hatchback, it provides a real alternative that stands out from the bland euroboxes, has decent performance, great handling and individuality. That other critical factor if you have to pay for your own car - residuals, will be rock solid, unlike the Focus or Astra whose values drop as fast as a double decker bus driven off a cliff.

For a more balanced view check out this review by Honest John, a highly respected independent reviewer in the UK:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=146

[johnf]

I believe most of us were only trying to convey our impressions of the 1-series on its roll-out day. Some of us are just more colorful about that than others. :)

If you want a cold, emotionless assessment of the car it would be: the current models of the 1-series are not cost-effective. Call that unbalanced if you will, but it is, in one form or another, the feeling of everyone I know.

[andy_thomas]

It seems to be great sport to slag off the 1 series, especially by current BMW owners.

This comment is especially pointless:

Quote:
thousands upon thousands of cash-rich, intelligence-poor Britons will buy them in droves. For £27k I'll have a 330i, thanks.
Unquote

Firstly it is insulting to many people. Considering that the reputation of BMW drivers in the UK is not terribly good, this is somewhat uncalled for.

Perhaps I should have said "uninformed". The 1er in the is priced out of all proportion to supply, demand and volume. Brits are inclined to whinge and pay up anyway. I think that approach should be strongly resisted on the basis of its questionable judgment and utter futility.

Contributors to the various UK boards are generally concerned with whether or not they should spend their £26k on a 118d or 120d. While this is probably unrepresentative of the typical BMW buyer, the dealer demonstrators I have seen (and the few cars on the street) have been loaded to the gunwhales. People are spending an enormous amount of money on this car. The - frankly - crap basic specification does not help.

The argument about space in the back is somewhat pointless. It's not meant to be huge in this area (as stated by BMW themselves). If you want a huge rear go buy a Volvo estate.

With respect, that is nonsense. This is a four-door, two-seater car. Have you looked at the photos in threads here which show the rear legroom available when the front seat is set for someone 180 cm (5'11'") tall? "Not huge" is one thing. "Useable" is quite another. Frankly I would be embarrassed to take passengers in the rear of a 1 series - it's cramped enough in a 3!

I agree with you that the initially strong residuals will mean a lower overall outlay than first appears. But BMW is pushing for record volumes - these cars are only just "premium" in any respect. 3er residuals are already depressed; the poor utility offered by the 1er will not help.

I stand by my belief that my countrymen lose sense, reasoning and rationality when buying BMWs. (I do at least hope the loss is temporary, and not a chronic function of the growing malaise and contempt for education prevalent in Blair's Britain.) I would like British buyers to question the costs, and resist buying from UK dealers. I want them to have more balls, and no longer tolerate being gouged. I like the fact that the 1er is RWD, and all other things being equal, would immediately choose it over anything else. But equality is in very short supply!

[Roaders]

I have ordered a 120d and am very much lookign forward to getting it. I was going ot go for the Golf but the BMW had higher spec options so I decided to go for the BMW instead. This was a rational decision abotu which car I would prefer.
The one has ample boot space for me - I put all the kit in that I usually carry about and the boot is significantly bigger than my current car.

As for rear leg room most of the time the only stuff I have in the back of my car is luggage that will now be going in the boot. I have tested the room in the back though and my partner can comfortably sit behind me.
I am 6'2" and I have too much leg room in the front when the seat is all the way back. THis means that if I have people in the back (only happens very rarely) there will be ample room for me to move the front seat forward to give them enough room.
Rear leg room is very low priority for me so this arrangement is fine.

I can't understand why you are slagging the one series off so much on a BMW forum.

[swchang]

I have ordered a 120d and am very much lookign forward to getting it. I was going ot go for the Golf but the BMW had higher spec options so I decided to go for the BMW instead. This was a rational decision abotu which car I would prefer.
The one has ample boot space for me - I put all the kit in that I usually carry about and the boot is significantly bigger than my current car.

As for rear leg room most of the time the only stuff I have in the back of my car is luggage that will now be going in the boot. I have tested the room in the back though and my partner can comfortably sit behind me.
I am 6'2" and I have too much leg room in the front when the seat is all the way back. THis means that if I have people in the back (only happens very rarely) there will be ample room for me to move the front seat forward to give them enough room.
Rear leg room is very low priority for me so this arrangement is fine.

I can't understand why you are slagging the one series off so much on a BMW forum.

No problem with criticizing a BMW product, even on a BMW forum. We should be objective in our criticisms. And besides, only through a hard honest look at its shortcomings will we get improvement from BMW.

What I don't understand is when people ask for smaller, lighter, sportier cars and then complain about lack of rear seat room and "boot space." You can't have it all. It's similar to the 3-series rear seat room complaints that are so prevalent about the E46. That's fine and dandy, but then you hear people complain about how the new 3-series is going to get bigger and, most likely, heavier and poorer in the handling department. :dunno:

[andy_thomas]

I can't understand why you are slagging the one series off so much on a BMW forum.
The outrageous pricing, poor base spec and that silly rear legroom. I know you said rear legroom wasn't a priority for you, but this is a five-door car. Perhaps BMW has made some changes to the seat back, but I sat in a pre-production 1er in July (at Rockingham), and with the driver's seat set for me (5'10") there was barely any leg clearance in the rear, let alone legroom.

In other countries the price is either lower or the equipment is better (Australia, where it's cheaper as well). In some countries the price is higher, though that is most often to do with sales/special car taxes which apply to all cars. So some of my brickbats do not always apply. The hard time I have giving the 1er much praise is partly because of my Brit perspective. We have no special car taxes in the UK, save registration and first year's road tax, yet the 1er (120d SE) still manages to cost nearly £22k with metallic paint and a few options.

I just think the 1er is a bad deal compared to a 3er. For me it's nothing to do with brand erosion or snob appeal, just the fact that as an engineering solution, the car isn't special. With better equipment, two less doors, as long as the importers resist the temptation to gouge a bit too deeply, I think it would be a car worth considerig.

[stephen3rd]

I like Roaders have ordered a 120d SE with quite a lot of options and get it next week.

I have just got rid of my 2003 3 series sport because it was dull and didnt drive as well as the 1.

The 1 will be my third BMW since 2001 and it will also be the best and most satisfying.

As for the rear space, i couldnt give two hoots about people in the back, it is my car and i pay for it, if i hear any complaints from my passengers they have a simple choice, walk or start contributing to my monthly payments.

[mattrick]

I have wanted a 320d coupe for ages, and as my company car is due to be returned in a month, i decided to visit the BMW garage.

I test drove a 320d sport coupe and a 320d sport compact on the same day as the 120d sport, the 120d was quite easily the best car to drive, and also the best value.

I am 6 foot 5 and read in reviews on this site that the rear legroom was pathetic, i have currently got a vw golf gttdi, and the difference in leg-room was negligable.

I am in my mid twenties and 99% of the time will not have rear passengers, and i am sure that a lot of prospective 1 buyers will be in a similar predicament, so therefore it seems rather daft that most people are writing the car off just because of rear leg room.

The 1er was much more responsive, powerful, fun to drive and was better handling at speed, than either 320 Coupe or the 320 Compact.

The 1er is in competition with the A3 & Golf, so why on earth all the big-boy 3 series peeps on here are constantly slagging it off is beyond me.

Okay it costs slightly more than the equivalent A3 / golf but it is a much better car - read the reviews!!

Matt

[MiniRoll]

I agree with Ikki, Roaders, mattrick and stephen3rd :wave: Also, swchang makes some good points ;)

The 1-series is a great car - I have had mine (120d SE) for 2 weeks and it is excellent. I have driven the A3 and Golf and they are not really in the same league. The Audi/Golf 2.0 TDi diesel is unrefined compared to the 120d and the performance is not in the same ball park. The 1 series has better handling and I much prefer the interior.

Regarding rear space, I would not agree with the saying 'it's a 4 door - 2 seater car' comment. I'm 5' 11" and can easily sit behind myself. In a recent review, What Car rated the rear space as good. OK, I agree, it's not class leading rear space - but why does everything always come back to this issue :yawn:

This forum is mostly negative and not particularly constructive in respect of the 1er. The worst example was in the thread http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73002
where Roaders never actually got any ansewrs to questions, just slagged off for the choice of car and the amount of options chosen :yikes:

If you are interested in the 1-series and want constructive help and opinions try

http://www.babybmw.net/index.php

;)

[Axcu]

Excellent comments, I applaud you for taking the time to put some different opinions on the board. There's too much 1-series bashing, unfairly so.

[andy_thomas]

I agree with Ikki, Roaders, mattrick and stephen3rd :wave: Also, swchang makes some good points ;)

The 1-series is a great car - I have had mine (120d SE) for 2 weeks and it is excellent. I have driven the A3 and Golf and they are not really in the same league. The Audi/Golf 2.0 TDi diesel is unrefined compared to the 120d and the performance is not in the same ball park. The 1 series has better handling and I much prefer the interior.

Regarding rear space, I would not agree with the saying 'it's a 4 door - 2 seater car' comment. I'm 5' 11" and can easily sit behind myself. In a recent review, What Car rated the rear space as good. OK, I agree, it's not class leading rear space - but why does everything always come back to this issue :yawn:
;)
There's no doubt that the 1er is a better drive than its rivals. For the price premium, it ought to be. I can only surmise that BMW made running changes to the 1er in time for general production to squeeze a bit more space into the rear. Clearly, with all these 6+ footers sitting comfortably behind themselves in a 1er, I need to get down to a dealer sometime and check one out to see what they did!

[andy_thomas]

The 1er is in competition with the A3 & Golf, so why on earth all the big-boy 3 series peeps on here are constantly slagging it off is beyond me.

Do we have to actually own a 1er (as opposed to sat in one, poked around it etc.) before we can comment?

As well as praising its handling, stability, and in one case (unbelievably) its rear legroom, reviews have also said how pricey it is, and how poor the level of standard equipment is. I've already been there with British-market BMWs, and I am sure as hell not going back.

Perhaps you are resigned to paying super-premium prices for entry-level BMWs, and don't need the rear legroom. In which case, more power to your elbow. But wouldn't you rather have waited for a 2 series?

[stephen3rd]

There will be no 2 series.

My dealer has told me that the odd even number scheme has been scraped at board level of BMW.

There will be a coupe version of the 1 badged as a 1, but it will have less legroom than the 5 door.

[andy_thomas]

There will be no 2 series.

My dealer has told me that the odd even number scheme has been scraped at board level of BMW.

OK, that figures. The usual 4-series rumours were quashed some time ago, and despite the existence of the 6er (whose brand, I guess, is strong enough) it doesn't surprise me that it'll be 1 all the way. However that does mean that the next ///M1 will be *very* different to the original M1 (although its power and performance probably won't be far off, given 25 years of development!).

There will be a coupe version of the 1 badged as a 1, but it will have less legroom than the 5 door.
So, a two-seater then :)

[johnf]

The 1er is in competition with the A3 & Golf, so why on earth all the big-boy 3 series peeps on here are constantly slagging it off is beyond me.As one of the possible "3 series peeps" :dunno: (whatever that is) and as someone who spent some years of his youth in Pittsburgh when the mills were still running, I just want to make sure I understand all this talk of "slagging".

I look at the car and state why I couldn't buy it. I try to understand and explain the underlying thinking of why I couldn't buy it. I even suggest a couple changes BMW could make to the car to likely reverse my verdict and make me want to buy it.

Is that what you guys mean by slagging? If it is, I wish more would do it!

[MiniRoll]

As one of the possible "3 series peeps" :dunno: (whatever that is) and as someone who spent some years of his youth in Pittsburgh when the mills were still running, I just want to make sure I understand all this talk of "slagging".

I look at the car and state why I couldn't buy it. I try to understand and explain the underlying thinking of why I couldn't buy it. I even suggest a couple changes BMW could make to the car to likely reverse my verdict and make me want to buy it.

Is that what you guys mean by slagging? If it is, I wish more would do it! :rofl: Yes indeed, slagging off is UK slang for criticising unconstructively! In the US, you would be dissing the 1er :D

Please don't do it! It's a great car :thumbup:

[Ikki]

Andy Thomas

The hard time I have giving the 1er much praise is partly because of my Brit perspective.

Where the heck do you think that we are from?

The Brit perspective seems to be diametrically opposed to yours :p

[andy_thomas]

Andy Thomas

Where the heck do you think that we are from?

The Brit perspective seems to be diametrically opposed to yours :p

?

I am British - which is why I have a Brit(ish) perspective on BMWs sold in the UK. But if disliking paying artificially jacked-up, premium prices on barely premium products means I don't have a true "British" perspective, then that's fine.

I saw one parked yesterday (116i "Sport", auto, leather, iDrive) and snooped inside. The front seat backs appear to have been heavily "scalloped". I don't remember seeing this on the pre-production model I poked around at Rockingham in July. I wonder if BMW did any customer clinicking on this one...?

[mattrick]

?

I am British - which is why I have a Brit(ish) perspective on BMWs sold in the UK. But if disliking paying artificially jacked-up, premium prices on barely premium products means I don't have a true "British" perspective, then that's fine.

I saw one parked yesterday (116i "Sport", auto, leather, iDrive) and snooped inside. The front seat backs appear to have been heavily "scalloped". I don't remember seeing this on the pre-production model I poked around at Rockingham in July. I wonder if BMW did any customer clinicking on this one...?

So now with the amazing "scalloped" seats, do we all finally agree that there is plenty of leg-room in the back, probably even enough for a small african village in fact!!

[swchang]

So now with the amazing "scalloped" seats, do we all finally agree that there is plenty of leg-room in the back, probably even enough for a small african village in fact!!

Haven't had a chance to really see or snoop in one, as I'm in America, but I have to say that this is one instance where being on the shorter side of stature truly pays off. :) :p

[johnf]

So now with the amazing "scalloped" seats, do we all finally agree that there is plenty of leg-room in the back, probably even enough for a small african village in fact!!Someone has been watching too many French minivan commercials. :)

By my measurements, the 4-door 1er has roughly 7 cm (3 inches) less rear seat leg room than an E46 3er and 2 cm less leg room (not more!) than a two-door, metal top Mini. I have compiled some more measurements of both the 1er and Mini to quantify the price you pay (in different ways) for BMW's latest model. I can write them up and post them if people are interested.

BTW, an auto body guy I know looked at the coming 3er and reports its build quality is comparable to its little brother.

[andy_thomas]

Someone has been watching too many French minivan commercials. :)

By my measurements, the 4-door 1er has roughly 7 cm (3 inches) less rear seat leg room than an E46 3er and 2 cm less leg room (not more!) than a two-door, metal top Mini. I have compiled some more measurements of both the 1er and Mini to quantify the price you pay (in different ways) for BMW's latest model. I can write them up and post them if people are interested.

BTW, an auto body guy I know looked at the coming 3er and reports its build quality is comparable to its little brother.
Yuck. I think...

John, does he distinguish between the build quality and the quality of the materials? I'm in no doubt that the 1er will be at least as well built as the current 3er, but its material quality seems lower in some places (the one I saw was a very early one, granted). If the new 3er uses the same hard, unyielding plastic as the 1er and the new Golf, it will be a backward step.

[Alex Baumann]

..... do we all finally agree that there is plenty of leg-room in the back, probably even enough for a small african village in fact!!

Nope. It depends on your definition of 'plenty'. To me there was not 'plenty' legroom (space ?) there.

[johnf]

John, does he distinguish between the build quality and the quality of the materials?I believe he thought the quality of the material and how it was applied on the coming 3er was similar to the new 1er, that BMW has gone a bit too far economizing the cars for production, and that people will feel they paid too much for what they got after a few years. Bear in mind, he is going to be repairing them!

[MiniRoll]

Someone has been watching too many French minivan commercials. :)

By my measurements, the 4-door 1er has roughly 7 cm (3 inches) less rear seat leg room than an E46 3er and 2 cm less leg room (not more!) than a two-door, metal top Mini. I have compiled some more measurements of both the 1er and Mini to quantify the price you pay (in different ways) for BMW's latest model. I can write them up and post them if people are interested.

BTW, an auto body guy I know looked at the coming 3er and reports its build quality is comparable to its little brother.
:tsk: My previous car was a Mini Cooper S and I can guarantee that the 1 has far more room in the back. I can sit behind myself if the 1. In the Mini I would not even be able to slide the driver seat back if I tried to sit beind myself.

[johnf]

I can remeasure the cars in my dealer's showroom, but I measured 2 cm room more legroom in the Mini with the seat set two different ways: part way back or hard against the rear seat bench. :dunno:

[Mr. E]

Boy, I'd love to wax poetic on the 1er merits or lack thereof, but being a Yank means no chance of seeing one in person. :(

I'll definitely let you know what I think about the new M1 though (eventually). :p