View Full Version : So, what do you think of DBW?
Drive By Wire throttle, that is....
I thought of this in my enless search to stop boredom on the board :angel:
Alex Baumann
05-30-2002, 10:18 AM
haven't driven it yet, but from the posts I've read, it doesn't sound like fun
What if my Alpina comes with it ? :tsk:
best evar eh:lmao: ? I don't have enough knowledge to figure out how the system would work at full potential, but right now, it needs more work.
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
haven't driven it yet, but from the posts I've read, it doesn't sound like fun
What if my Alpina comes with it ? :tsk:
It isn't bad....
I can heel-toe DBW cars pretty easily. Lets see how I do in the M5 this weekend at the track http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/fingersx.gif
Mr. The Edge
05-30-2002, 10:24 AM
Got no problems with my DBW throttle. :dunno:
:angel: :bigpimp:
Originally posted by TD
Um, no comment. :angel:
Call me stupid but if I didn't already know, I couldn't tell if I had DBW in my car or not.
And auto journalists (see the latest R&T) think the DBW on the E46M3 is the best thing since sliced bread.
ALEX325i
05-30-2002, 10:40 AM
IMO, it depnds...
On the 325i - it isn't that bad. To be honest with you, after a couple of weeks, I couldn't even tell the difference between DBW and mechanical (my former 00 323Ci).
On the M3 - best ever. Maybe ATYCLB, Glaws, Imola Ed, and others will agree... I love that Sport mode :thumb: To bad it's not the default mode... :( Oh well, it's not like the non-Sport mode is THAT bad for city traffic...
ALEX325i
05-30-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Kaz
Call me stupid but if I didn't already know, I couldn't tell if I had DBW in my car or not.
Not at all Kaz. Same here...
And auto journalists (see the latest R&T) think the DBW on the E46M3 is the best thing since sliced bread.
Funny... I tend to agree... :angel: My C5's had DBW throttles, but the M3's much better! :thumb:
Dr. Phil
05-30-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Kaz
Call me stupid but if I didn't already know, I couldn't tell if I had DBW in my car or not.
And auto journalists (see the latest R&T) think the DBW on the E46M3 is the best thing since sliced bread.
You can't be stupid, you drive a wagon:thumb: :D
If not for the sticky pedal syndrom, I could barely tell the difference.
in_d_haus
05-30-2002, 11:06 AM
It's not perfect but has great potential! I hope they keep working on it.
·clyde·
05-30-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by in_d_haus
It's not perfect but has great potential! I hope they keep working on it.
I'm not wild about the version thats in my car, but I see no reason why it can't be great thing in another application. The first couple weeks with the car, I nearly found it unbearable, but like I thought, I got relatively used to it. Now, I feel like the throttle doesn't respond the way I would like it too (like a mechanical throttle) and every now and then it wil bite me in the ass. I find it bearable, but I'd like to try different mappings and see if I like something else better.
Nick325xiT 5spd
05-30-2002, 09:01 PM
I think it's terrible that BMW refuses to give a decent throttle mapping on the DBW throttles. It's a nice concept. (Necessary for Valvetronic, which is why it's been introduced, I imagine.) The implementation is rather poor, however. :dunno:
ALEX325i
05-30-2002, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by clyde325xiT
...I find it bearable, but I'd like to try different mappings and see if I like something else better.
Dinan SW? Seems to work pretty well...
Originally posted by Alex Baumann
haven't driven it yet, but from the posts I've read, it doesn't sound like fun
What if my Alpina comes with it ? :tsk:
If the B3's engine is based on the M54 engine it wil.
blackdawg
05-31-2002, 05:12 AM
it just plain sucks raw eggs.
it's marginally live-able on a day to day basis now since the EML response has been set to full "ON".
naturally, the DBW is a TAD more responsive in a car equipped with SIX throttle bodies compared to the mushiness of a single throttle bodied, DBW throttle car.
glaws
06-01-2002, 03:20 AM
I have had no problems with DBW at all. Never experienced the "sticky throttle" problem. I drive with the sport mode on all the time and, aside from the occasional rough shift from 1st to 2nd think it's great. I have seen many posts where people are advised to use normal mode in heavy traffic and sport in all other situations. I tried that for a while, but the difference in the throttle mapping was just too much for me to get used to. I tended to "bog" the engine in normal mode because of the large difference in throttle/engine response. You just have to keep a very light foot on the throttle or you are in danger of sticking your front in some one else's rear.
little<><
06-02-2002, 06:40 PM
I think more and more cars will have this as time progresses for emissions & efficiency related issues. The Audi 's all have it, I think Nissan's et al do as well. With the number of servo and solenoid related do-dads on our engines & braking systems, it would stand to reason that less "outside" mechanical linkages will be involved.
Having said that, why the automotive manufacturers would go to longer oil change intervals with all the tight tolerances in the engines, and the valves controlling the Double VANOS, I don't know. I would hope they've got some excellent filters in place to support this.
The HACK
06-02-2002, 07:28 PM
While we're on this thread, there's a couple of things I noticed from driving a few DBW cars compared to mine:
1) There's a HUGE disparity between the 330's and 325's. The DBW on the 330's is just plain HORRIBLE in my experience, but all the 325's with DBW it was marginally BETTER than my 323. The feedback is just about right and delivery is linear. But 330's with DBW, the pedal is VERY loose and the acceleration isn't proportional to the amount of pedal travel. Weird.
2) DBW on the M3 rocked. I can hardly tell it's not mechanical throttle. The only occasion where I can feel the DBW-ness of it was under very light throttle, in lower gears. I can feel "steps" in the throttle with very little pedal pressure. Oddly enough, it's HARDER to drive the M3 under light pressure than it is to just open it up.
3) Okay, off the DBW throttle now. I've also noticed that the amount of boost on the "new new" steering on the 325 isn't as much as the 330's. Maybe it's because the few times I have driven the 325 is Kaz's 325iT, but his steering is almost as heavy as mine once you get the car going. On Raffi's and James Italia's 330's, the boost is very noticible.
Why BMW choose to put the good stuff on the lower trim cars I'll never understand. Maybe since the steering boost is tied to engine RPM, and since it is a lot easier to rev up the 330 the boost seems disproportionally large on the 330 compared to the 325? I wonder if they both share the same "formula" for steering boost and pedal feedback?
Originally posted by The HACK
Dan,
It isn't like our cars have perfect thottles. They are too stiff and I find it easy to jerk the car a lot if there isn't a lot of clutch slip.
although, some will say that the 328Ci is the best E46 :dunno:
I would take a new 330 over my car and an M3 over it, SMG preferably :angel:
The HACK
06-02-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Dan,
It isn't like our cars have perfect thottles. They are too stiff and I find it easy to jerk the car a lot if there isn't a lot of clutch slip.
although, some will say that the 328Ci is the best E46 :dunno:
I would take a new 330 over my car and an M3 over it, SMG preferably :angel:
Well, actually I have found that the 323Ci I drive has one of the BEST throttle feels in all the cars I've ever driven. I like the stiffness and the linear feedback from the pedal. The only thing that's better than the 323Ci gas pedal, and I find it very marginal, was the Z3 pedal since it was even stiffer than the 323Ci pedal. I find it harder to heel-toe but easy to "feather" the gas pedal for the perfect amount of gas.
Right now, I am just about as happy with the 323Ci as I am with the old Z3, if not a little bit happier since I feel so in touch with the 323Ci (with the amount of work I've put into it). And frankly, if someone was to do a straight up trade with me, an E46 M3 optioned out to my liking, it would take at least 2-3 seconds of consideration as well as asking for my wife's permission before I'd say yes. :)
ALEX325i
06-02-2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by The HACK
And frankly, if someone was to do a straight up trade with me, an E46 M3 optioned out to my liking, it would take at least 2-3 seconds of consideration as well as asking for my wife's permission before I'd say yes. :)
Hack,
No, no, no, no, no... Here's the smilie you need: :lmao: I mean, you've GOT to be $hitting me, right? :eek: :bigpimp:
Originally posted by The HACK
Well, actually I have found that the 323Ci I drive has one of the BEST throttle feels in all the cars I've ever driven. I like the stiffness and the linear feedback from the pedal. The only thing that's better than the 323Ci gas pedal, and I find it very marginal, was the Z3 pedal since it was even stiffer than the 323Ci pedal. I find it harder to heel-toe but easy to "feather" the gas pedal for the perfect amount of gas.
Right now, I am just about as happy with the 323Ci as I am with the old Z3, if not a little bit happier since I feel so in touch with the 323Ci (with the amount of work I've put into it). And frankly, if someone was to do a straight up trade with me, an E46 M3 optioned out to my liking, it would take at least 2-3 seconds of consideration as well as asking for my wife's permission before I'd say yes. :)
I think the pedal should require less effort to facilitate heel-toe. The 330 was easy to blip due to the light pedal.
I don't think that I would have to think about that M3 trade. I would take one with whatever options were offered, it comes with anything you need. SMG would be nice :D
Nick325xiT 5spd
06-03-2002, 05:51 AM
If someone gave me an SMG M3 I'd sell it. :D
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
If someone gave me an SMG M3 I'd sell it. :D
Wagon owners :tsk:
Nick325xiT 5spd
06-03-2002, 06:24 AM
Then I'd trade my car in on an M5. :D
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
If someone gave me an SMG M3 I'd sell it. :D
So would I. No question. I have ZERO interest in SMG.
Now if someone were to give me a 6-spd M3 Touring...
Originally posted by TD
So would I. No question. I have ZERO interest in SMG.
Now if someone were to give me a 6-spd M3 Touring...
oh, come on!
You wouldn't like the perfect rev-match every time. Always being in control of the transmission and more in control of the car and its line :p
You wouldn't keep an M3 coupe then, I presume :angel:
It was cool hearing the sequential Ferriari trans blip a few times going into the turns :thumb:
Nick325xiT 5spd
06-03-2002, 06:35 AM
IF I could afford a pure track car, I would consider SMG. IF the car I track will see ANY more street time than driving to and from the track, it's a no brainer for me. Three pedals. My left leg actually ACHES if it doesn't have a pedal to push. :p
Originally posted by nate328Ci
oh, come on!
You wouldn't like the perfect rev-match every time. Always being in control of the transmission and more in control of the car and its line :p
You wouldn't keep an M3 coupe then, I presume :angel:
It was cool hearing the sequential Ferriari trans blip a few times going into the turns :thumb:
Nate, quit telling ME what I want. I have NO INTEREST in SMG. Any car I have in the foreseeable future will NOT be a dedicated track car. Like Nick, I want my third pedal. I could not care less if the computer does it better than me (which I'm sure it does). I don't care. I really don't. I wish you'd accept that the pure imperical fact that it can shift better/faster/smarter/whatever than I can is totally irrelevent to me. I want to shift the car myself. Period.
I am not a gadget freak who automatically thinks newer/more complicated = better.
Dr. Phil
06-03-2002, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Wagon owners :tsk:
Watch it Nate:mad: :rolleyes:
Originally posted by TD
Nate, quit telling ME what I want. I have NO INTEREST in SMG. Any car I have in the foreseeable future will NOT be a dedicated track car. Like Nick, I want my third pedal. I could not care less if the computer does it better than me (which I'm sure it does). I don't care. I really don't. I wish you'd accept that the pure imperical fact that it can shift better/faster/smarter/whatever than I can is totally irrelevent to me. I want to shift the car myself. Period.
I am not a gadget freak who automatically thinks newer/more complicated = better.
I was just kidding, btw. Didn't notice the :p, eh?
Yes, a regular six peed would be better and probably easier to drive while on the street, but I am willing to make sacrefices for performance. I mean, I would have less chance of slipping the rear wheels and killing myself with SMG. Cutting out the worry of that is improtant. I'll bet that is why the Ferrari went off in turn one yesterday (the manual F355) :thumbdwn:
Dr. Phil
06-03-2002, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by TD
Now if someone were to give me a 6-spd M3 Touring...
You could sell it to me and make a killing:eeps: :D
Originally posted by PM 325xiT
Watch it Nate:mad: :rolleyes:
alright, is this better
AWD owners :tsk:
:p
Dr. Phil
06-03-2002, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by nate328Ci
alright, is this better
AWD owners :tsk:
:p
NO..................:D
Mr. The Edge
05-16-2004, 10:28 PM
If someone gave me an SMG M3 I'd sell it. :D
:eek:
Mr. The Edge
05-16-2004, 10:28 PM
:eek: IF I could afford a pure track car, I would consider SMG. IF the car I track will see ANY more street time than driving to and from the track, it's a no brainer for me. Three pedals. My left leg actually ACHES if it doesn't have a pedal to push. :p
I learned to drive a stick on a 2001 VW GTI, a V6 with DBW. I then moved up to my 325i. Didn't think DBW was all that bad, until my girlfriend recently bought a 95 Honda Del Sol Si. The mechanical throttle on that Honda makes throttle-blipping so easy and precise. Now I wonder if the mechanical throttle on old BMW's was like that and if I had really missed out on driving fun...
tgravo2
05-17-2004, 09:00 PM
:eek:
so nick, how much are you asking? ;)
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