Your Thoughts? High speed balance!?!? (fix the problem or exchange the car!)

[cssmgt]

Hello all,

And thanks for your responses on previous posts.

I posted an issue earlier this week, the orignal is here (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75845)

Here is an update on the front end vibration problem.

The car was dropped off at the dealer on Friday night, they have had every "expert" technician look at the car and test drive it.

They stated that they are replacing the rotors again and giving it an alignment. They have inspected everything and stated that nothing seems to be out of wack. This concerns me.

Tires: OK
RIMS: OK
Control arm bushings: replaced last time still OK this time around
Accident: NO (salesrep said he can assure me the car was never hit)

The salesrep involved tried telling me that the vibration at low speeds & 70 mph was kind of normal or not that bad, mind you I drove this car for 6 months and it never happened after it was fixed the last 2 times and just started up again a number of weeks after.

Example: At higher speeds the whole car shakes and vibrates and you can feel it in the wheel the floor the pedals and the seat. The rear view mirror basically vibrates and if driving at night, you can see the headlights from the cars behind you bouncing in the mirror.


They said they were also going to bring it to a place and also do a high speed balancing which is a really expensive procedure?!?! :dunno: I am not familiar with this. Does anyone here have any ides or think that this will fix my problems?

They also stated that when I pick up the car I will go for a test drive with the tech and see if everything is fixed. If I am not satisifed they said they will trade me out of the car and I can choose something else.

They just want me to be a satisfied customer.

What are your thoughts on this?

Should I exchange and get out of this possible lemon with the fear of getting into another one or hold on to it hoping all is fixed?

The car has 2 months/2000 miles left on the original warranty.


Your thoughts are appreciated. :)

[wheel-man]

does the wheel pull to one direction when the car vibrates? during hard acceleration or braking?

is the tread on all 4 tires evenly worn?

does the transmission vibrate? is it an mt or auto?

any strange engine noises when the car vibrates?

how old is the car?

[cssmgt]

does the wheel pull to one direction when the car vibrates? during hard acceleration or braking?

is the tread on all 4 tires evenly worn?

does the transmission vibrate? is it an mt or auto?

any strange engine noises when the car vibrates?

how old is the car?

The wheels don't pull, the car stays straight during braking and accelerating.

All tires are new.

No strange engine noises

The car is a 2001 325cic.

Thanks for the reply

[crash8168]

I think i would go to a tire shop with a road force balancer and let them have a crack at it.

[wheel-man]

based on what you've said here are the scenerios...

1. wheels/tires - wheel balance is off, one of the wheels is bent, tire is out of round, improper wheel-axel mounting, or tires are no longer round, or there is inconsistency with the side wall between the tires, creating a force variance at speed.

2. suspension - wear/failure

3. brake - wear/failure, including rotors, pistons not releasing once off the breaks, break dust between rotor and pad.

4. engine/tranny - mounts, drivetrain.

based on what your telling me, 2 and 4 are not likely, the alignment is intact, and 3 is being corrected.

so, it's most likely your wheels/tires and if i had to guess, it's the balance that is off... or less likely force variance.

go to an independent tire shop with a reputation and experience at doing high performance tires and wheels... even discount tire is good, and let them rebalance all your wheels and take a look at you tires.

good luck.

[AF]

1. wheels/tires - wheel balance is off, one of the wheels is bent, tire is out of round, improper wheel-axel mounting, or tires are no longer round, or there is inconsistency with the side wall between the tires, creating a force variance at speed.


go to an independent tire shop with a reputation and experience at doing high performance tires and wheels... even discount tire is good, and let them rebalance all your wheels and take a look at you tires.

good luck.My thoughts exactly !!!!

Check out the link below, you need to find a Hunter 9700 wheel balancer and I bet this will solve your problem plus this website has a lot of info about what the machine does. It should cost anywhere from $50 to $100 to get it done on all 4 wheels/tires...
Link is below

http://209.176.154.132/

[Fast Bob]

I also feel that you may benefit from a thorough high-speed balance job, which should only be done once the new tires have at least 500 miles on them....we all think of new tires as being *perfectly* round, but once they`re mounted and run in for 500 miles, they`re as round as they`re ever gonna get....THAT`S the time for critical balancing...

Regards,
Bob

[salvo]

Unfortunately, you cannot just "exchange" a car like a t-shirt...getting you car classified as a lemon is a long and arduous process...

[cssmgt]

Unfortunately, you cannot just "exchange" a car like a t-shirt...getting you car classified as a lemon is a long and arduous process...

That's what i thought, but they said they'll give me another car if I am not satisifed.

Sounds too good to be true....

[MicahO]

That's what i thought, but they said they'll give me another car if I am not satisifed.

Sounds too good to be true....

If they'll give you another car - explore that option aggressively. This should "only" be a vibration, and fixable. But it sounds like it's been and gone and come back, and if they fix it now, whaty's going to be in the back of your mind 2.001 months from now when you are off warranty? Are you going to be worried that the vibration will return every time you hit a pothole? If yes - does your psyche need that sort of abuse? How much mental relief would you get from a whole new vehicle?

As far as the vibration - high speed balancing is not really expensive, not sure why they'd say that - I'd think that all dealerships have Hunter-class balancers in their shops, and experience in using them. Now they may be trying to duck warranty replacements on ball-joints and such - that's something to explore.

For the balancing - try another shop with a Hunter-class balancer, and make sure the wheels are dynamically balanced (on two planes).

The last balancing option would be to find a truck shop that was willing to work with you. Lots of truck shops have machines that balance wheels and tires ON the vehicle. This sort of balancing can help account for imperfections in braking and hub hardware, which could be the issue. Unfortunately many truck shops don't want to work on a problem car - too much trouble.

Which brings to mind the braking hardware - are they using BMW parts for the rotors, or aftermarket? Most aftermarket rotors, while made by the same manufacturers, are not balanced as are the rotors from the BMW factory parts sources. Not usually significant, but...... Also - make sure the shop is scuffing the hub faces and rotor faces smooth and clean before mounting. A bit of rusty build up on a hub face will put a rotor a bit askew, which means the perfectly balanced wheel is askew as well. This is something you see on older cars in the Northeast from time to time, and tough to troubleshoot. Amazing how bad a wheel can feel with a few gritty chunks under a rotor hat.

[cantona7]

Sorry to hear about your problems. If this was my car, I think I'd take them up on their exchange offer. It sounds like your car may have chronic problems that may never be fully resolved. At this point, I think you'd be no worse off--and likely a good deal better off--if you just cut bait on this car. Good luck!

[cssmgt]

Sorry to hear about your problems. If this was my car, I think I'd take them up on their exchange offer. It sounds like your car may have chronic problems that may never be fully resolved. At this point, I think you'd be no worse off--and likely a good deal better off--if you just cut bait on this car. Good luck!


Thanks for the thought.

The first time this issue occurred, BEFORE I brought the car in to the BMW dealer, I brought the car to a "tires plus" shop just to have the front wheels balanced. I figured I would save my self the inconvenience of dropping it off at the dealership. TP balanced the tires, but it didn't help the problem. As you've read, it turned out to be the control arm bushings. So BMW replaced the bushings and also the rotors and the pads.

The second time I had this vibration problem they said the rear tires had flat spots on them. They wanted me to pay for one and they would pick up the cost on the other, but I fought them on it and they paid for both.

The third time they are telling me well....it's what I wrote already in this thread.

If this is a "certified" pre-owned BMW a.k.a USED shouldn't the balance have been done already trough the certification process? Or at least after they changed the bushings pads and rotors.

I think there is something wrong with the front tires but they are telling me differently.
I most likely will get another opinion, as others in the forum have suggested. Thanks.

Shouldn't a BMW dealership own a balancing machine? Being they sell rims there, I would think they would mount and balance tires as well.

I have a funny feeling that this going to happen again.

[wheel-man]

Shouldn't a BMW dealership own a balancing machine? Being they sell rims there, I would think they would mount and balance tires as well.

I have a funny feeling that this going to happen again.

bmw dealer sells cars, and offer services to ensure your care is running well, and as added revenue they sell wheels which they balance.

but it's all about numbers. the difference between a dealer and a tire shop performing balancing would be several orders of magnitude infavor of the tire guys doing more.

do you want someone to perform a procedure who's done it several times, or someone who's done it thousands of times? :D

interestingly you didn't get all 4 wheels balanced when it was performed? have you rotated your wheels since?

i honestly believe, as i've stated before, that the wheels need to be removed and rebalanced... all of them. the tire shop will then make sure the rotors and hubs are clean as well when they replace the wheels. taking care of several possible causes at once.

let me know what you do or find out.

good luck.

[cssmgt]

bmw dealer sells cars, and offer services to ensure your care is running well, and as added revenue they sell wheels which they balance.

but it's all about numbers. the difference between a dealer and a tire shop performing balancing would be several orders of magnitude infavor of the tire guys doing more.

do you want someone to perform a procedure who's done it several times, or someone who's done it thousands of times? :D

interestingly you didn't get all 4 wheels balanced when it was performed? have you rotated your wheels since?

i honestly believe, as i've stated before, that the wheels need to be removed and rebalanced... all of them. the tire shop will then make sure the rotors and hubs are clean as well when they replace the wheels. taking care of several possible causes at once.

let me know what you do or find out.

good luck.

Thanks wheel-man I'll keep you posted....all 4 wheels are supposed to be high speed balanced tomorrow by the dealer....there taking it to a plcae that specializes in this.

Let's keep our fingers crossed...I don't want to have to go through this crap again

[salvo]

That's what i thought, but they said they'll give me another car if I am not satisifed.

Sounds too good to be true....

IT means that they will "sell" you another car...kinda like, trade in your used (brand fricking new) car and we will give you another car! Great...7k later, WTF!!!

[cantona7]

IT means that they will "sell" you another car...kinda like, trade in your used (brand fricking new) car and we will give you another car! Great...7k later, WTF!!!
Sounds like his car is a CPO. If they offer an exchange--like a straight swap out of the CPO pool for a similar car with similar miles, I think that's pretty fair.

[Artslinger]

The Dealer seems to be doing everything right to keep you happy. My guess is you have a bent rim or out of round tire, I'm suprised they didn't swap wheels with another car on the lot to see if that would fix the vibration.

[cssmgt]

Hello All,

Thanks to all on this forum for the replies. You are a good team of people. :thumbup:

Here's the latest update.

Got the car back yesterday, went for a drive with the tech and all is taken care off...for now and hopefully for a long time. I had the car up to 90mph on I-4, no problems, awesome ride.

They replaced the rotors again, gave it an alignment and took it to a plcae that had a hunter road force wheel balancer. The car drives pretty well.

They fixed the door vibration from the speakers by adding extra insulation to the door panels. The stero sounds a lot better. RE: The RPM thing, they pretty much said it was normal.

Now here is something I relaized when test driving another 2001 325cic while I waited for mine to be finished.

I experienced a lot of similar things. Wheel vibration, door panel crackling sounds, etc.
I guess, for my first BMW, my expectation of the older 3 series models was much higher. I figured I wouldn't experience similiar problems like I had in my 10 year old 3000GT.

The salesrep also mention being it was a convertible you will feel everything more, the road, the wind, etc.

Other than that, the dealer went above and beyond to meet my needs and I defintely am a satisfied customer. I can't wait to my loan is up too purchase another one. :p

Take care guys.