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View Full Version : 3M SWIRL REMOVER for dark colours, followed with KLASSE ALL IN ONE, followed with P21


Fifty_Cent
11-28-2004, 07:19 AM
I am starting to notice some scratches on the clear coat of my car. Some are deeper than others, but non is deep enough to have penetrated under the clear paint coating.

I am thinking of buying and applying the following:

1. 3M Swirl remover for dark colours. I have heard that this is the best regarding the removal of dark colours. Is this true, and is there a better one.

2. I will follow with application of the KLASSE ALL IN ONE polish, which has been praised on this and other forums for been excellent, long lasting sealant/polish.

3. I will finish the work with a coat or two of P21S, which has again been praised for its stunning results.

Any comments on my thoughts are welcome.

BahnBaum
11-28-2004, 07:44 AM
I am starting to notice some scratches on the clear coat of my car. Some are deeper than others, but non is deep enough to have penetrated under the clear paint coating.

I am thinking of buying and applying the following:

1. 3M Swirl remover for dark colours. I have heard that this is the best regarding the removal of dark colours. Is this true, and is there a better one.

2. I will follow with application of the KLASSE ALL IN ONE polish, which has been praised on this and other forums for been excellent, long lasting sealant/polish.

3. I will finish the work with a coat or two of P21S, which has again been praised for its stunning results.

Any comments on my thoughts are welcome.

I'd consider a few coats of Klasse SG in between the AIO and P21S. Very easy to apply.

Alex

jvr826
11-28-2004, 08:50 AM
Definitely add HGSG (high gloss sealent glaze) after AIO and before P21S.

I might suggest using 3M Imperial Hand Glaze as a first step at removing those scratches. You want to start with the least aggressive product on scratches/etching. If that doesn't do it, move up to something a little more aggressive, like the swirl remover.

And don't forget the clay bar step, do that first before you start with the other products. Do your wheels and follow up with AIO and HGSG, but skip the P21S on the wheels. You'll be surprised at how easily they clean up after doing this.

Have fun! You've selected some great products.

Nick325xiT 5spd
11-28-2004, 08:56 AM
3M imperial hand glaxe doesn't do **** for removing swirls. Waste of time, IMHO. All it does is cover them up for a little while.

Kind of.

Fifty_Cent
11-28-2004, 11:44 AM
3M imperial hand glaxe doesn't do **** for removing swirls. Waste of time, IMHO. All it does is cover them up for a little while.

Kind of.
Guys, I have tried hand glaze, it is a great product, but not for swirls. It removed them for a while, or so I thought at least. After a wash or two, they all appeared again!!

Crazy ha? Just when I thought, "great, they're gone" and they appeared again.

Well, my paint is still in pretty good condition, if you deduct some clear coat scratches and some swirls, which I dont think that can be avoided in any dark colour.

I have chosen the Klasse products because of all the nice comments that I ve been hearing about them at these forums.
Note that price will be +43$ for me, since I am ordering from the US via UPS. Hopefully, I will get them within 4-5 working days?:dunno:

Now that you commented on the Klasse High Gloss Seanlant glaze I will consider it as well.

Thanks to all for all the nice info!!!

jw
11-28-2004, 04:45 PM
I'm facing the swirl mark / etching dilemma at the moment. (thanks to the dealership and a nasty bird bomb) I was thinking of getting the 3M Swirl Mark Remover for Light colors (dark silver car). Is this best used by hand or with the PC?

The AIO / SG x2 worked well when the car was swirl free. I plan to follow that up once I rid the finish of swirls and the etching.

F1Crazy
11-28-2004, 06:01 PM
Fifty_Cent, I know how hard it is for you to get these detailing products we have here in US but have you considered euro alternatives?

Let's see, instead of 3M SMR you can use Einszett (1Z) Paint Polish that comes in green can, I like it better than 3M product, it is easier to apply and I think it's a bit better in swirl removal, 3M tends to cover them too much with its fillers, 1Z also leaves better shine. You don't need all these fillers, they are gonna be removed by AIO anyway.

Do a search on Car Lack or Carlack, the company is in Germany and it is believed to be the maker of Klasse products. They sell full line of paint products for boats and cars.

Don't even bother with 3M IHG, it will temporarily hide swirls, that's all. You need to remove them, very likely with a machine.

3M SMR is a product that can be used by hand but I hope you work out 3-4 times a week, you'll need all that strength and stamina... :D

Fifty_Cent
11-30-2004, 10:09 AM
Fifty_Cent, I know how hard it is for you to get these detailing products we have here in US but have you considered euro alternatives?

Let's see, instead of 3M SMR you can use Einszett (1Z) Paint Polish that comes in green can, I like it better than 3M product, it is easier to apply and I think it's a bit better in swirl removal, 3M tends to cover them too much with its fillers, 1Z also leaves better shine. You don't need all these fillers, they are gonna be removed by AIO anyway.

Do a search on Car Lack or Carlack, the company is in Germany and it is believed to be the maker of Klasse products. They sell full line of paint products for boats and cars.

Don't even bother with 3M IHG, it will temporarily hide swirls, that's all. You need to remove them, very likely with a machine.

3M SMR is a product that can be used by hand but I hope you work out 3-4 times a week, you'll need all that strength and stamina... :D
Hehe, well I used to work out, that is before I got a dark BMW. :tsk: Now, the only working out I do is polishing, and trying to cover up some swirls.

Well, I dont regret it. Car looks fantastic after its washed.
So, I hope that I will be getting rid once and for all of those swirl marks after the above order of nice products.

Here in Cyprus, we have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING relating to good quality products.

The best products we have are AUTOGLYM, which are far from perfect. Nice, but thats it.
I didnt like the leather conditioner one bit, so I am using the OEM one.
Also, regarding the swirls, I will not be using the swirl remover on all the car, I am just gonna apply it on the affected areas.

Followed by the KLASSE products, and P21S.

I think that should do it.
Well, lets hope that my 100$ bying these products will be a good investment.
Lets hope they are worth it.

I dont see the reason of searching around in EU to find the products. I have found them in the US, and the shipping will be similar.
BTW, products in the US are cheaper than most places in the EU, so that should make the difference.

Thanks to all for the help.

RSPDiver
12-02-2004, 07:51 PM
I'm a total friggen n00b at the finer arts of detailing, but I've recently started on the wife's neglected Cosmos Black M Roadster. Here's what I used so far:
- Dawn dish detergent wash
- 3M Professional Formula Rubbing Compound (claims to take out up to 1500 grit sanding marks)
- Meguiars Cleaner Wax paste
- 3M Imperial Hand Glaze
- 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax liquid

The car looks 100% better after these steps, with only one coat of wax so far. The paint is way darker and glossier, and looks almost deep enough to swim in. Of course, I still need to get rid of some REALLY bad acid rain etching, but the swirls and many small scuffs are gone.

As for all the 3M products, they were the best think on the shelves at Pep Boys, and I'm still learning. :) I've read that Meguiars Scratch-X is good at removing swirls, too. IMHO, patience is paramount to decent results.

BahnBaum
12-02-2004, 07:53 PM
I'm a total friggen n00b at the finer arts of detailing, but I've recently started on the wife's neglected Cosmos Black M Roadster. Here's what I used so far:
- Dawn dish detergent wash
- 3M Professional Formula Rubbing Compound (claims to take out up to 1500 grit sanding marks)
- Meguiars Cleaner Wax paste
- 3M Imperial Hand Glaze
- 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax liquid

The car looks 100% better after these steps, with only one coat of wax so far. The paint is way darker and glossier, and looks almost deep enough to swim in. Of course, I still need to get rid of some REALLY bad acid rain etching, but the swirls and many small scuffs are gone.

As for all the 3M products, they were the best think on the shelves at Pep Boys, and I'm still learning. :) I've read that Meguiars Scratch-X is good at removing swirls, too. IMHO, patience is paramount to decent results.

Next time around, clay after the dawn.

Alex

Fifty_Cent
12-03-2004, 01:08 AM
IMHO, patience is paramount to decent results.
Totally agree.
I must add though, that the use of good for the specific application products on the paint is a necessity.
I mean, what is the point of using a 3M hand glaze in removing swirls? no point really.
Becuase, after you wash the car, all are gonna appear back again.
So, all that rubbing is for no reason.


Regards,

and
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL!:thumbup:

flashinthepan
12-04-2004, 09:12 AM
Hehe, well I used to work out, that is before I got a dark BMW. Now, the only working out I do is polishing, and trying to cover up some swirls.


:rofl: You are spot in with that comment.

In Rainy (but beautiful) Oregon I will not buy a dark color for any car I wish to drive between October and April. I am far to much of a perfectionist to keep a black car here. My Silver/Grey has been a dream in terms of maintenance.

But I agree, a black finish is stunningly pretty !!! ;)

johnnygraphic
12-13-2004, 10:53 PM
Most true glazes have no ability to get rid of swirl marks/scratches. They cosmetically hide the microscopic swirl marks/scratches by filling them in. Some detailers put another layer of glaze or wax on top in order to 'seal' the glaze & give the glaze a longer lasting layer of protection.

This method is preferrable to the polish/compounding which actually 'sands' away at the top layer of the clear coat and/or paint-especially on newer cars (you only have a finite amount of paint on a car). Using a glaze helps to extend the life of the paint. The glaze will eventually wear out due to washings etc, just like any normal wax will and requires it to be reapplied.

Once you get beyond the fine swirl marks, you may need a polish to get rid of deeper scratches and on newer cars-this is probably recommended on an as needed basis.

That being said, I'll likely do a polish job on my 6 month old 330 fairly soon...

Johnny

Test_Engineer
03-31-2005, 10:30 PM
In the past I used Scrtch-X and 1Z(green) to try to rid swirls, but I think both of these are only chemical polishes, and not abrasive. Am I correct? I might try the 3M for dark color as it is supposed to be a fine polish and not just chemicals.

F1Crazy
04-01-2005, 07:57 AM
In the past I used Scrtch-X and 1Z(green) to try to rid swirls, but I think both of these are only chemical polishes, and not abrasive. Am I correct? I might try the 3M for dark color as it is supposed to be a fine polish and not just chemicals.
AFAIK both are abrasive. Green 1Z polish is very close in the level of abrasiveness to 3M SMR but is easier to work with and IMO produces higher gloss. 3M SMR is loaded with fillers so wash the paint to check if swirls are gone (some use alcohol to get rid of fillers).

Test_Engineer
04-01-2005, 08:06 AM
AFAIK both are abrasive. Green 1Z polish is very close in the level of abrasiveness to 3M SMR but is easier to work with and IMO produces higher gloss. 3M SMR is loaded with fillers so wash the paint to check if swirls are gone (some use alcohol to get rid of fillers).

Maybe I just didn't work the 1Z long enough! How "dry" are you suppose to work a polish? I get a little worried when starts getting dry and dusty, maybe that is what I did wrong....not ;long enough. I'll try it again and maybe use a slight stronger cutting pad.

If the 3M has fillers...maybe I won't try that, because that is what I hated about the Sratch-X....little white specs in some of the stone chips.

Fifty_Cent
04-01-2005, 08:17 AM
Maybe I just didn't work the 1Z long enough! How "dry" are you suppose to work a polish? I get a little worried when starts getting dry and dusty, maybe that is what I did wrong....not ;long enough. I'll try it again and maybe use a slight stronger cutting pad.

If the 3M has fillers...maybe I won't try that, because that is what I hated about the Sratch-X....little white specs in some of the stone chips.
Well, if youre gonna use the 3M swirl remover for dark colours, remember, not to apply excessive force, cause it will in fact create some MORE swirl marks.

Use it with light force, as light as possible, and let it do its work. Follow with Klasse products.

F1Crazy
04-01-2005, 08:28 AM
Maybe I just didn't work the 1Z long enough! How "dry" are you suppose to work a polish? I get a little worried when starts getting dry and dusty, maybe that is what I did wrong....not ;long enough. I'll try it again and maybe use a slight stronger cutting pad.

If the 3M has fillers...maybe I won't try that, because that is what I hated about the Sratch-X....little white specs in some of the stone chips.
I think most of these new polishes have diminishing abrasives, they brake down into smaller and smaller particles. Imagine sand paper that goes from 300 grit to 1000, that's how they act so you realy have to work it long enough. I work it with PC at 3-4 till it starts to disapear, sometimes I'll make a final pass at higher speed.

I don't know how severe your problem is, sometimes we try to tackle them with our tiny orbital buffers and mild polishes when the only way to fix them is with rubbing compound and a rotary. Paint evaluation is everything!

Good luck!

Test_Engineer
04-01-2005, 08:41 AM
I think most of these new polishes have diminishing abrasives, they brake down into smaller and smaller particles. Imagine sand paper that goes from 300 grit to 1000, that's how they act so you realy have to work it long enough. I work it with PC at 3-4 till it starts to disapear, sometimes I'll make a final pass at higher speed.

I don't know how severe your problem is, sometimes we try to tackle them with our tiny orbital buffers and mild polishes when the only way to fix them is with rubbing compound and a rotary. Paint evaluation is everything!

Good luck!

That is what I have heard.....I think I just didn't take it far enough. Just a little scary when it starts to dry out on your beutiful car and don't want to ruin it. I'll try it with an orange pad again and go from there. Weather is almost good enough hear for my spring detailing! I just want to make sure it rains a few times here to wash all the road grim off the roads first.

jimwh
04-07-2005, 05:42 PM
3M imperial hand glaxe doesn't do **** for removing swirls. Waste of time, IMHO. All it does is cover them up for a little while.

Kind of.IHG is a glaze and therefore hides swirls and does not remove them. The swirl remover that I usually start with is P21S Paint Cleansing Lotion and then if needed, go to 3M SMR. You can use either for light or dark color cars, the only difference is that they add some pigment that washes off. A PC will make your life alot easier if you have several areas to cover.