Packages - why?

[Rowag]

I'm assuming that there is a U.S. marketing reason behind this - probably from a used car sales standpoint? In any case, I need to vent my frustration...

I just placed an order for a $40000+ 330ci ZHP. I want LUMBAR and a DAMN AUTO-DIMMING REAR-VIEW MIRROR. But guess what? Those options are only available with the premium package, which happens to cost a couple of thousand dollars. Oh, but wait, it also includes leather - which I really don't want since I'm getting alcantara with the ZHP package. Oh, oh and BMW ASSIST TOO! Again, not interested.

So my $40000+ car won't have an auto-dimming rear view mirror, even though I would have quite happily paid an extra couple of hundred for it. :thumbdwn:

In fact, I'd even pay a few bucks more to get auto-dimming SIDE mirrors. But WAIT! I'd have to get an M3 for that. It's not even an OPTION for any other 3 series. Does BMW not want my money? :dunno:

I'm sure I'll be fairly happy with the new 330ci that's coming my way, but I'm seriously watching Lexus for the next couple of years (among other people, I'm sure). The $29980 MSRP 5-speed IS 300 has auto-dimming on ALL mirrors. Standard.

Holy standard features, batman. I just built a loaded 530i with an MSRP of $62195. It too does not have an auto-dimming rearview mirror since it doesn't have the $1800 premium package option. Oh, and want auto-dimming side mirrors? Sorry, that's only for the 545 or M5 crowd. Can't do it on your $60000+ auto. :confused:

I know I keep harping about mirrors, but it goes way beyond that. This isn't the first time I've been upset about this sort of crappy choice from BMW. In 2002 the only way to get a center armrest on a 325ci was with the premium package. A *CENTER ARMREST*. Come on. :rolleyes:

Feel free to add your comments, frustrations, explanations, etc. I had to put this out there in the hopes that maybe, somehow, some way, it has a chance of reaching BMW and eventually giving us a little more consumer choice.

[Mike@Modbargains]

I took a marketing class last semester and we talked about this in some detail. Basically certain options are much more popular than other options, this is obvious. Companies therefore create packages that force customers to buy both the popular and non-popular option. Here is an example:

Option A costs $800, and 80% of purchasers desire this option. (the cost to provide this option is $420)
Option B costs $300, and 20% of purchasers desire this option. (the cost to provide this option is $130)

The company evaluates this and decides to sell them together as a package for $1000 instead of $1100 separately. They then advertise this as a $100 discount on the options. You can see that by forcing the customer to purchase both of the options together instead of separately, extra revenue is being generated because 60% more people are paying for Option B that previously would not have paid for it. They are making an extra $70 per package that selling option A alone would not have generated.

It sucks, but it's good business for them. Except in a case like your's where a customer refuses the package entirely because they didn't want the more popular and usually more expensive component of the package, they only wanted the less popular lower cost option.

I hope this made sense. I tried to cram about an hour of lecture into a forum post :)

[BahnBaum]

In the restaurant business, we spent a considerable amount of time teaching service staff to get the bill price up as much as possible by suggesting apps, salads and premium liquors. It's probably BMWs method of semi-forcing the upsell. And it has a positive impact on production costs.

Alex

[Kaz]

Considering packages are how most manufacturers are doing it (or take-it-or-leave-it no options period like Hondas) in the US, this is here to stay. Especially on european cars where they are just going to naturally cost more comparably equipped, so the cars need to be stripped to look price-competitive in the market.

And if you want it bad enough, you can always get certain options stand-alone, or add them later. I have a center armrest, autodim mirror, and lumbar, all with no package.

FWIW there are no autodim outside mirrors on ANY E46. It CAN theoretically be added on sedans/wagons ONLY, though.

[drallafi]

My 2001 325i didn't have cruise control. $33,000 for a car w/ no cruise control? Lame, eh? Consider then that the car *also* didn't have a trunk-release in the cabin :confused: . It *had* to be done on the keyfob. If there were a smiley/emoticon thingie smoking a crackpipe, I would insert it here.

[doeboy]

I added Lumbar and Auto-Dimming a la carte... ;)

I think he auto-dim at least is a pretty common retrofit even if you don't get it from the factory.

[Bob Clevenger]

I agree with the original poster. That some of you have found a way to get these items sans package is encouraging, but auto makers (not just BMW) need to let us know that we can do this.
Hey auto makers: we'll even pay MORE for the option separate from the package if we don't want the rest of the package! How about a "delete moonroof" option for those of us who would rather have more headroom than a roof window we'll never open? And some of us NEED lumbar support if we are to continue walking. Lumbar support not make you enough profit without the whole "premium package"? Make the a la carte price one that makes good business sense for you and let us decide whether or not to pay it.

The restaurant comparison would be like telling the customer: "I'm sorry, the Chateau Latour is only available with the Filet Mignon. We do not serve it with theTop Sirloin; may I suggest a nice Chianti?"

[Dirtboy]

I just placed an order for a $40000+ 330ci ZHP. I want LUMBAR and a DAMN AUTO-DIMMING REAR-VIEW MIRROR. But guess what? Those options are only available with the premium package, which happens to cost a couple of thousand dollars. Oh, but wait, it also includes leather - which I really don't want since I'm getting alcantara with the ZHP package. Oh, oh and BMW ASSIST TOO! Again, not interested.




I went through the same thing in 2001 when I ordered my 330Ci (U.S. spec). I wanted the M sport package II AND the premium package. M sport had the alcantera seats, premium had the leather. I basically twisted my dealer's arm and got the leather deleted from the premium package (but couldn't get the wood trim deleted :dunno: ).

The way I did this was by asking my main dealer if I could get the M package; he said "No". So I went to another dealer and asked them; they said "Yes". ...went back to my main dealer and told him that I found another dealer that could get it for me... he then proceeded to jump through hoops to get my money... I guess you should just look around, if you can, to find a dealer that will work with you. :dunno:

Good luck :thumbup:

[Pinecone]

Theother reason for packages is that it makes it easier for teh dealers to order cars for the lot that have teh popular options. Otherwise the dealers would forget things and ahve various cars that are missing crucial options to sell well.

And BMW NA has never been known for customer service.

[Spiderm0n]

Can someone tell me what purpose an auto-dimming rear view mirror serves?

[Salvator]

Can someone tell me what purpose an auto-dimming rear view mirror serves?
It automatically "dims" or darkens the bright lights from trucks, SUVs and other vehicles with mis-aligned headlights that shine in your rear view mirror, so you are not blinded... You can manually dim your mirror with the clown nose (if you do not have auto-dim) but a lot of people (my wife included) want that auto-dim feature... Her 525iT that has everything else (Sport, CWP, Premium, etc.) did not come with an auto-dim mirror because its "only" a 525... It's a pet peeve of her's as well...

Being that an auto-dim rear view mirror is an option that is able to be added afterwards (costs around $250) my advice would be to include that in your negotiations for the vehicle... tell the dealer that you want them to provide and install the auto-dim mirror as part of the deal... depending upon how much you are paying for the car, past purchases from the dealer, etc. I would think that an equitable solution could be achieved... otherwise, buy it yourself and install it... that's what I plan to do with my wife's car, one of these days... :)

[BahnBaum]

Are people that lazy that they can't just reach up and dim the mirror themselves? That's what the clown nose is for. Get rid of auto-dimming mirrors, and reduce the cost and complexity of the car by $100 (or whatever they cost).

Would you also prefer manual windows? They would reduce the cost and complexity too. And while you're at it, get rid of those silly power door locks and power mirrors.

Alex

[·clyde·]

In 2002 the only way to get a center armrest on a 325ci was with the premium package. A *CENTER ARMREST*. Come on. :rolleyes:

I ordered a center armrest for my non-PP 2002 325xiT from the dealer's parts department for ~$100 (IIRC) and spent a couple extra bucks to have them install it before I took delivery. Some of the things that are part of the packages you can add by themselves, some of them you can't. If you have a dealer/salesman that trusts you not to stick them with a nonsaleable car by refusing delivery when it arrives and willing to go to bat for you with BMWNA, there's a lot you can do to get the car you want optioned the way you want.

Part of the problem with some of the luxury makes (like BMW) is that the base configurations are very spartan so they can advertise "Starting at $xx,xxx." By the time you add the stuff "that it should have come with standard" the cost is a good bit higher. Because a buyer in the US can refuse delivery of a car after it's been produced and delivered to the dealer, dealers are reluctant to take orders for oddball option configurations becuase they are harder to sell. Just because you or I want a car a sepcific way doesn't mean that anyone else in the world wants a car that way. If they order it and you wind up not buying it, they're stuck with it and have to pay flooring charges until they eventually blow it out at super low price after sitting on their lot forever. If the dealership is any good, they'll know what sells and what doesn't. Stray from the norm and they get nervous. A BMW without a sunroof isn't just a less expensive version of the same car with the roof, it's harder to sell since the vast majority of buyers will insist on the roof. No roof, no buyer.

In addition to all of that, limiting the number of possible option configurations makes ALL of the cars produced on that line less expensive. As production and assembly methods and equipment have improved through the years, the amount of savings has steadily decreased since the days of the "any color you want as long as it's black" Model T, but it's still a factor.

[Salvator]

Are people that lazy that they can't just reach up and dim the mirror themselves?
Yes... my wife is one of them... what gets her goat is that her old 323iT wagon had an autodimming mirror, but her newer, more expensive 525iT wagon does not... doesn't make sense anyway you look at it... But yes, we can do without it; witness my 1967 VW Beetle with no method to dim the mirror (although I did purchase a vintage accessory for it... a chunk of dark blue plexiglass that clips to the mirror and flips down over the mirror to "dim" it... ) :D

[Rowag]

Are people that lazy that they can't just reach up and dim the mirror themselves? That's what the clown nose is for. Get rid of auto-dimming mirrors, and reduce the cost and complexity of the car by $100 (or whatever they cost).
Yes. Not to mention the safety concerns. A blinding light in your face is no fun on the interstate at night. My current 325ci has an auto-dimming rearview (ZPP, yay), and it is VERY nice to have. The side mirrors don't do it, though - which gets irritating. I suppose I could take my eyes off of the road ahead and fiddle around with the power mirror switches for 15-20 seconds to dim those, and then screw with it to get it back to normal (memory seats won't help - you just changed your mirrors as far as it's concerned).

OR I COULD JUST BUY THE MIRRORS. I understand completely that a car dumped on the lot at the last minute with unpopular options would be hard to sell, but certainly there's got to be a way to compensate for that. Bill me for the add-on parts ahead of time, make me put down a larger deposit, etc. Exactly what is the "bail" rate on people who order a BMW and put $1000 down? $2000 down? $5000 down?

[·clyde·]

I suppose I could take my eyes off of the road ahead and fiddle around with the power mirror switches for 15-20 seconds to dim those, and then screw with it to get it back to normal (memory seats won't help - you just changed your mirrors as far as it's concerned).

Mirror position settings are remembered for the memory positions with the power seats in my E46. You could use one of the memory slots with the same seat position but different mirror positions. Or, even better, you could just move your head a few inches for a moment or two until the offending vehicle is no longer in the same relative location. I've driven a bunch of cars with auto dimming mirrors in the past few years. They have a certain usefulness, but manual mirrors and non dimming exterior mirrors have their own advantages too.

Bill me for the add-on parts ahead of time, make me put down a larger deposit, etc. Exactly what is the "bail" rate on people who order a BMW and put $1000 down? $2000 down? $5000 down?

The size of the deposit doesn't really matter when it's fully refundable.

[alee]

Are people that lazy that they can't just reach up and dim the mirror themselves? That's what the clown nose is for. Get rid of auto-dimming mirrors, and reduce the cost and complexity of the car by $100 (or whatever they cost).
If there's cars behind you, the darkness is adjusted and if there is nobody behind you, it goes to full undim. Visibility is pretty much optimal all the time vs. the manual mirror unless you really want to flip/unflip your mirror constantly. But then again, some people are into that and adjusting their wipers too. :p

[LA525iT]

Are people that lazy that they can't just reach up and dim the mirror themselves? That's what the clown nose is for. Get rid of auto-dimming mirrors, and reduce the cost and complexity of the car by $100 (or whatever they cost).

Damn, I've owned this car for 2 years and thought the clown nose was only there to light blink when the alarm was set. Gots to run down to the garage and check this out.

[Kaz]

What does the manual dim mirror do anyhow? On every Japanese car I've ever driven, all it does is flip the mirror up or down so you're looking at a reflected image imposed on the headliner or back seat. What I love about autodim is that you're still looking at the direct image.

[·clyde·]

What does the manual dim mirror do anyhow? On every Japanese car I've ever driven, all it does is flip the mirror up or down so you're looking at a reflected image imposed on the headliner or back seat. What I love about autodim is that you're still looking at the direct image.

In a manual mirror there are two reflecting surfaces. One has high reflectivity (day) and the other low reflectivity (night). In either setting you are getting the direct image/reflection. THe two surfaces are two surfaces of the same piece of glass and they are non-parallel. The problem is that there is a "ghosting" like effect because both surfaces are always reflecting light from different angles back at your eyes.

[Stuka]

Can someone tell me what purpose an auto-dimming rear view mirror serves?

They serve no purpose, like the stupid rain sensing wiper. :tsk:

I had autodimming mirror on my M3, and traded it for Hack's manual mirror as fast as I could. Autodimming mirror makes spotting Camaro, Crown Vics, and Caprice headlights basically impossible. It's like having a 65mph speed limiter installed on the car for night driving. :mad:

[Scott ZHP]

So my $40000+ car won't have an auto-dimming rear view mirror, even though I would have quite happily paid an extra couple of hundred for it. :thumbdwn:

51.16.0.001.231 Interior rear view mirror with automatic dip mechanism, E46

PM me for a copy of the retrofit instructions; no idea on price.

[Tanning machine]

Theother reason for packages is that it makes it easier for teh dealers to order cars for the lot that have teh popular options. Otherwise the dealers would forget things and ahve various cars that are missing crucial options to sell well.

And BMW NA has never been known for customer service.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. Sure, one can analyze demand and customer preferences, and show that it might be profitable to offer packages through the "upsell", but a larger part of it is creating efficiencies for ordering and sales. Sure, that's profitability too, but the customer gets savings as well. If every car has 200 a la carte options, it becomes a lot more expensive to coordinate what goes in each car.

Remember also that in the US, you can generally back out of an order right up until the check clears (and sometimes even after then). If anyone could order a zany set of options by putting down a (refundable) $500 deposit, dealers would take it on the chin.

And, BTW, the auto-dimming mirror is the nads. I thought it would be no better than the flip-down versions, which are crap, but it's not--it does genuinely dim the glare. It's one option I would happily pay for (and did).

[doeboy]

51.16.0.001.231 Interior rear view mirror with automatic dip mechanism, E46

PM me for a copy of the retrofit instructions; no idea on price.

Actually that's the one with the digital compass. Approx $300 usually.

The Auto-Dim with LED is 51 16 8 236 774. Should be around 200-250 I think... but call your favorite parts source to get an actual figure.

[icemanjs4]

I added Lumbar and Auto-Dimming a la carte... ;)

I think he auto-dim at least is a pretty common retrofit even if you don't get it from the factory.

While you're getting the Auto-dim ala cart, consider getting the auto dimming mirror WITH COMPAS. I'm pissed that a car that costs >40K doesnt' come standard with a compass. I think that's the most valuable tool a car can have and it's SO easy to integrate into so many places.

[doeboy]

While you're getting the Auto-dim ala cart, consider getting the auto dimming mirror WITH COMPAS. I'm pissed that a car that costs >40K doesnt' come standard with a compass. I think that's the most valuable tool a car can have and it's SO easy to integrate into so many places.

Uh... I meant I got it a la carte when I got my car two years ago... :)

[gene2598]

I don't know why your dealer is telling you that you can't get the mirror without getting the package deal. I have an '05 330ci ZHP without premium pkg and I was able to get the mirror added. Cost me about $350, but I think it was worth it. There was no haggling or arm twisting. Call BMW and get the scoop.

Most dealers usually back down when you tell them that BMW confirms something they say isn't available.

[Artslinger]

It's worth $350 to not have to reach up and manually dim the mirror once every few weeks/months? $350???


$350... that is a rip-off.
Who the h*ll do they thinking they're selling this mirror to the US government?

[Dave 330i]

In the restaurant business, we spent a considerable amount of time teaching service staff to get the bill price up as much as possible by suggesting apps, salads and premium liquors. It's probably BMWs method of semi-forcing the upsell. And it has a positive impact on production costs.

Alex

No appetizers, no liquor, just water please. We are ready to order now, thank you.

[Artslinger]

Artslinger, you a Packer fan? :thumbup:


Oh yeah. :D

I was born a Green Bay fan... I can remember watching the Packers vs Dallas "Ice Bowl" game.

Didn't you live in Minnesota for awhile with Moss and the rest of the Vikings? :eek:

[trikerider]

I'm assuming that there is a U.S. marketing reason behind this - probably from a used car sales standpoint? In any case, I need to vent my frustration...

I just placed an order for a $40000+ 330ci ZHP. I want LUMBAR and a DAMN AUTO-DIMMING REAR-VIEW MIRROR. But guess what? Those options are only available with the premium package, which happens to cost a couple of thousand dollars. Oh, but wait, it also includes leather - which I really don't want since I'm getting alcantara with the ZHP package. Oh, oh and BMW ASSIST TOO! Again, not interested.

Yeah, I was kind of in the same boat . . . so I decided to order everything. :)

#750

[trikerider]

It's worth $350 to not have to reach up and manually dim the mirror once every few weeks/months? $350???

Well . . . you kind of have to think about this in terms of being an enthusiast and everything's just a matter of degree, right? I mean, we could all be driving poop-brown, Dodge Aires K's. We don't need automatic transmissions, door locks, or windows. We don't need CD changers or remote controls. We don't need dishwashers. We don't need electric razors. We don't need garage doors that automatically open or riding lawn mowers or snow blowers. There are much simpler, fiscally responsible solutions to all of these things.

But for those who want all the bells and whistles AND when compared to the price of these cars we're all driving, what's $350?

#750 (one man's floor . . . and all that, right?)

[Chris90]

This seems mostly a US problem - you have a lot more options in Europe and japan I think.

The Japanese are no better though - try getting a Lexus or Acura without a moonroof! :mad:

[Rowag]

Well . . . you kind of have to think about this in terms of being an enthusiast and everything's just a matter of degree, right?
#750 (one man's floor . . . and all that, right?)

Exactly right. I'm driving at night; I want my hands on the wheel and the shifter, that's it. I don't want to be fumbling with a damn knob to dim the mirror, then un-dim it, then fumbling again 2 minutes later, then un-dimming it again, etc. I *really* don't want to be fumbling with a knob when tail-riding-high-beam-shooting-moron in his huge SUV riding my ass at 75mph drives up right behind me on the highway... I want to be ready to shift, brake, turn, and control the car in case things turn for the worse. If I had an automatic I might take a different stance on all this, but I'm an enthusiast... :)

Also, the auto-dim is a true *variable* auto-dim, not an all-or-nothing-reflectivity approach. Much more effective in-general than "all-dim"/"no-dim".

And I LOVE lumbar when I'm on long trips (I frequently drive 3-4 hours in the car). In fact, I wanted the lumbar and mirror so bad I considered going the full price for the premium package if I could still keep the alcantara. But the salespeople I talked to never even mentioned it! Either the whole package (and choose a leather) or nothing, that was their deals.

It sounds like most dealers may need a little more education about this sort of thing.

[Godsogd]

...back to over priced armrests


What good is this thing I have in my 2K 528i? It slides back and forth but I can't open it to store anything inside! It doesn't lift up and has an uncomfortable storage slot in the middle that I think is supposed to house the phone feature that was never installed though I have all the buttons on my wheel to use it. :soapbox:

[beemer4me]

I personally did not have a problem ordering an Auto-Dimming rear view mirror for my 04 325. If you do a little digging here, you will see something called Priority One options, I believe you will find both items you are looking for available as standalone options on this list. Instead of blaming the company, maybe you should look at the incompetent dealership that you are working with.



I'm assuming that there is a U.S. marketing reason behind this - probably from a used car sales standpoint? In any case, I need to vent my frustration...

I just placed an order for a $40000+ 330ci ZHP. I want LUMBAR and a DAMN AUTO-DIMMING REAR-VIEW MIRROR. But guess what? Those options are only available with the premium package, which happens to cost a couple of thousand dollars. Oh, but wait, it also includes leather - which I really don't want since I'm getting alcantara with the ZHP package. Oh, oh and BMW ASSIST TOO! Again, not interested.

So my $40000+ car won't have an auto-dimming rear view mirror, even though I would have quite happily paid an extra couple of hundred for it. :thumbdwn:

In fact, I'd even pay a few bucks more to get auto-dimming SIDE mirrors. But WAIT! I'd have to get an M3 for that. It's not even an OPTION for any other 3 series. Does BMW not want my money? :dunno:

I'm sure I'll be fairly happy with the new 330ci that's coming my way, but I'm seriously watching Lexus for the next couple of years (among other people, I'm sure). The $29980 MSRP 5-speed IS 300 has auto-dimming on ALL mirrors. Standard.

Holy standard features, batman. I just built a loaded 530i with an MSRP of $62195. It too does not have an auto-dimming rearview mirror since it doesn't have the $1800 premium package option. Oh, and want auto-dimming side mirrors? Sorry, that's only for the 545 or M5 crowd. Can't do it on your $60000+ auto. :confused:

I know I keep harping about mirrors, but it goes way beyond that. This isn't the first time I've been upset about this sort of crappy choice from BMW. In 2002 the only way to get a center armrest on a 325ci was with the premium package. A *CENTER ARMREST*. Come on. :rolleyes:

Feel free to add your comments, frustrations, explanations, etc. I had to put this out there in the hopes that maybe, somehow, some way, it has a chance of reaching BMW and eventually giving us a little more consumer choice.