MT: 330i vs G35 vs CTS

[PhilH]

They scanned the new Motor Trend comparison test over at freshalloy.com.

http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~everblue/_mtg35/index.html

A good read, and the judgements they make seem fair to me, but all the cars have automatics, and the 330i doesn't have the sport package. :thumbdwn:

[RichNY]

Thanks for the link! It's great to see competition coming from all of the major automotive manufacturing markets. I actually root for the CTS in all of these comparisons because I admire Cadillac's boldness and ambition. Go after the 5-series! Who would've guessed they'd try and do a pretty good job at it?

Great time to be a driver, isn't it? :thumbup:

[JPinTO]

I thought the 330 had excellent brakes.. but look at the difference:

60-0:
330: 129ft
G35: 110ft

100-0:
330: 365 ft
G35: 309 ft

That's a HUGE difference. Go G35! :D


This quote is funny: "is the 3 series starting to look trite of darw we say pedestrian?

[Mystikal]

Originally posted by PhilH
A good read, and the judgements they make seem fair to me, but all the cars have automatics, and the 330i doesn't have the sport package. :thumbdwn:

What the hell? A Step, non-SP, run flat tired 330 is supposed to go against a G35 SP? :rolleyes:

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by Mystikal


What the hell? A Step, non-SP, run flat tired 330 is supposed to go against a G35 SP? :rolleyes:

The G35 only comes with automatic, so it's fair that the 330 had step. Also, the US 330 comes standard with a sport suspension. So it's apples to apples.

[Mystikal]

Originally posted by JPinTO


The G35 only comes with automatic, so it's fair that the 330 had step. Also, the US 330 comes standard with a sport suspension. So it's apples to apples.

Yeah, but it's like a broadway dancer wearing steel-toed boots. I really can't stand looking at that wheel or the seats either. I feel sorry for Nate.

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by Mystikal


Yeah, but it's like a broadway dancer wearing steel-toed boots. I really can't stand looking at that wheel or the seats either. I feel sorry for Nate.

Or those wheels! :yikes:

[Jeff_DML]

Yea it might have sport suspension but it doesnt have the sport tires. So I would not say apples to apples. The CTS wasnt equipped with the sport package either.

I assume the braking differences where due to tires too. I would hope the larger brakes on the bimmer would benefit something. They should at least fade less.

Jeff

[Jeff_DML]

but I agree competition is good:D

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by JPinTO


The G35 only comes with automatic, so it's fair that the 330 had step. Also, the US 330 comes standard with a sport suspension. So it's apples to apples.

The steptronic I can live with but the lack of sport package on the 330i is uncalled for. The sedan does not come stock with the sport suspension but the coupe does. The wider tires and suspension make a hell of a difference on the bmw as compared in R/T magazine of the 11 sedans. G35 still cme out on top after price was calculated into the scores but the 330i in R/T was equipped with 5-spd and SP and won overall before price was calculated.

Latest R/T

BMW beat the G35 in these categories

0-60
slalom
fuel economy
driving excitement
gearbox
steering
brake feel
ride
handling
exterior styling
seats
ergonomics

They tied in

engine
1/4 mile
skidpad
engine

G35 beat the 330i in

braking 60-0
braking 80-0
interior styling
luggage space
price

The categories that bmw won in were by a margin by less than a point in each category, while the categories that the G35 won in were quite astounding except for interior styling. It destroyed it in price from 31K to 39,5K

this was a more fair comparison that included cars such as the

Audi 3.0 Quattro
Cadillac CTS
SaaB 9-3
BMW 330i
Infiniti G35
Lexus IS300
Jaguar X-type 3.0
Acura TL-S
Lincoln LS V6
Mercedes 320

and for some reason I can't remember the 11th car.

[TD]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


The steptronic I can live with but the lack of sport package on the 330i is uncalled for. The sedan does not come stock with the sport suspension but the coupe does.

330i SEDANS do come standard with the sport SUSPENSION.

[Rufus330Ci]

Not to change the subject, but what is the braking from 100-0 and 60-0 on an M3??

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by TD


330i SEDANS do come standard with the sport SUSPENSION.

I wouldn't necessarily call the stock suspension on the 330i sport. It's way too floaty still compared to the sport package, a 1200 dollar option compared to 600 for the coupe. Granted the stock suspension for the 330i is sporty compared to other sedans but no where near as good as the sport suspension of that of the stock coupe which can be acheived with the sport package.

[sshuit]

I think that the G35 coupe is really going to hand us our lunches when it comes out.

I'm still a BMW fanatic that loves the whole package only a BMW can provide but I think we can look forward to MANY mags and Autojournalists happy to finally crown a new king of the "sports sedan / coupe"

BMW has a 7 year product cycle and it shows when near the end you see how much more car you can buy from a different manufacturer. I mean the G35 is really a 5-series sized car at a 3 series price point.

[TD]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


I wouldn't necessarily call the stock suspension on the 330i sport. It's way too floaty still compared to the sport package, a 1200 dollar option compared to 600 for the coupe. Granted the stock suspension for the 330i is sporty compared to other sedans but no where near as good as the sport suspension of that of the stock coupe which can be acheived with the sport package.

Since 4/01 production, the sport package and non-sport package suspensions are identical and both use the sport suspension. Fact.

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by TD


Since 4/01 production, the sport package and non-sport package suspensions are identical and both use the sport suspension. Fact.

Then why haven't the prices changed for the sport package from sedan to coupe. Coupe height of the suspension is lower which enables it to handle better.

[BiGGieStuFF]

Maybe the misunderstanding is this. coupe and sedan come with the same suspension. sedan and coupe come with the Strut-type front suspension with forged-aluminum lower arms and Multi-link rear suspension with cast-aluminum upper transverse arms, but they are tuned differently from non-sport compared to sport package equipped vehicles.

[The HACK]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF
Maybe the misunderstanding is this. coupe and sedan come with the same suspension. sedan and coupe come with the Strut-type front suspension with forged-aluminum lower arms and Multi-link rear suspension with cast-aluminum upper transverse arms, but they are tuned differently from non-sport compared to sport package equipped vehicles.

NO.
THEY'RE.

NOT.

All 330s, except for the Xi's, have the same identical suspension components and are tuned exactly the same, PERIOD. Since 04/01 like TD said. That's a fact.

Ask Shafer, he works at a dealership and knows this kind of stuff.

By the way, the reason sedan sports package cost more is because it includes the 3 spoke sports steering wheel, which cost about $300 more plus another $600 for the airbag, where as on the coupe the 3 spoke steering wheel is STANDARD.

[The HACK]

By the way, there is NOTHING tune-able on the BMW sports suspension. You can not adjust height, spring tension nor swaybar stiffness or shock rebound. NOTHING. So if the components are the same (same springs, same shocks, same control arms) then the car will handle the same.

[ronrich]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


his was a more fair comparison that included cars such as the

Audi 3.0 Quattro
Cadillac CTS
SaaB 9-3
BMW 330i
Infiniti G35
Lexus IS300
Jaguar X-type 3.0
Acura TL-S
Lincoln LS V6
Mercedes 320

and for some reason I can't remember the 11th car.


it was the volvo

[JPinTO]

So bottom line it was a FAIR comparison of sport suspensions+auto tranny equipped vehicles.

The R&T 11 car comparo with the stick shift 330 barely squeeked out a win (before pricing) over the G35 AUTO. I think that's material... let's wait for stick vs stick comparisons to come out shortly.

If the G35 Sport Coupe comes out with the hot cam 3.5L with an extra ~20hp, then that should walk away from a 330CI.

Competition is good... but BMW will still sell every car they make, because how many people do you really see DRIVING their BMWs? Not many!

[Jeff_DML]

I see people driving BMW's, to bad they are talking on the cell-phone while drinking a starbuck's latte at the same time:D

Jeff

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by The HACK
By the way, there is NOTHING tune-able on the BMW sports suspension. You can not adjust height, spring tension nor swaybar stiffness or shock rebound. NOTHING. So if the components are the same (same springs, same shocks, same control arms) then the car will handle the same.

So how do you account that the coupe sits lower than the sedan? example. If you change out the springs for H&R lowering springs the sedan has more of a drop than if you change it out on the coupe. The sedan with no sp has different springs than the coupe.

[nate]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


So how do you account that the coupe sits lower than the sedan? example. If you change out the springs for H&R lowering springs the sedan has more of a drop than if you change it out on the coupe. The sedan with no sp has different springs than the coupe.

The coupe has slighly shorter springs, I believe...

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by nate328Ci


The coupe has slighly shorter springs, I believe...

This is what I believe also due to the numerous questions about H&R race springs and what kind of drop they would give that I hear non-stop on the E46fanatics board. IF that is truely the case then no the sedan does not come with the sport suspension that is included in the sport package.

[The HACK]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


So how do you account that the coupe sits lower than the sedan? example. If you change out the springs for H&R lowering springs the sedan has more of a drop than if you change it out on the coupe. The sedan with no sp has different springs than the coupe.

On the older sedans (up to 4/01) without sports package the springs are longer than with sports package. After 04/01 ALL, I mean ALL E46 330i/Ci/Cic/iT has the same IDENTICAL SPRING and the same ride height REGARDLESS of package since it's got the identical SUSPENSION. All the parts. PERIOD. No ifs, ands and buts about it.

Ugh if only I can pull up the spring specs on the ETK to school you.

[TD]

Originally posted by nate328Ci


The coupe has slighly shorter springs, I believe...

Thanks for muddying things, Nate.

[nate]

Originally posted by TD


Thanks for muddying things, Nate.

?

[nate]

Originally posted by The HACK


On the older sedans (up to 4/01) without sports package the springs are longer than with sports package. After 04/01 ALL, I mean ALL E46 330i/Ci/Cic/iT has the same IDENTICAL SPRING and the same ride height REGARDLESS of package since it's got the identical SUSPENSION. All the parts. PERIOD. No ifs, ands and buts about it.

Ugh if only I can pull up the spring specs on the ETK to school you. '

I looked up the PNs, they are different between i, Ci, etc...

[JPinTO]

AS Hack said, There is only 1 BMW sport suspension that is identical on coupes or sedans. The only issue is whether a specific vehicle has the sport suspension or not. Older 330i's didn't have it STANDARD --- current 330i's have it standard. ALL current and previous 330CI's have the sport suspension standard.

And let's not even get into sport suspension II which isn't available in the US at all and has very limited Canadian availability.

[Rufus330Ci]

While you mentioned it how is it different then our suspension :bigpimp:

[BiGGieStuFF]

Originally posted by JPinTO
AS Hack said, There is only 1 BMW sport suspension that is identical on coupes or sedans. The only issue is whether a specific vehicle has the sport suspension or not. Older 330i's didn't have it STANDARD --- current 330i's have it standard. ALL current and previous 330CI's have the sport suspension standard.

And let's not even get into sport suspension II which isn't available in the US at all and has very limited Canadian availability.

That still does not explain the height differences from current sedans compared to the coupes and why sport package for sedan still includes sport tuned suspension. I don't doubt the sedan comes with a sport suspension, it's just not as aggressive as the coupe unless the sp is ordered. Until you find me proof bmw's website is the bible and the sedan w/o sp does not have the same tuned suspension the coupe has.

[JPinTO]

Originally posted by BiGGieStuFF


That still does not explain the height differences from current sedans compared to the coupes and why sport package for sedan still includes sport tuned suspension. I don't doubt the sedan comes with a sport suspension, it's just not as aggressive as the coupe unless the sp is ordered. Until you find me proof bmw's website is the bible and the sedan w/o sp does not have the same tuned suspension the coupe has.

On Bmwusa.com, 330i standard equipment lists "sport tuned suspension" as standard! I think you are confused because the sport PKG also lists the exact same thing as being part of the sport pkg.

As explained to you by many people and the bmwusa website, the sport suspensions on the 330i sedan are standard. The simple explanation is that the bmwusa website is showing conflicting information... although it's true that the sport pkg gets you a sport suspension also. So either way you go on a 330i, or 330i SP--- you get the sport suspension.

As for different ride heights, post some examples.

[CaliChris]

I think this thread has been jacked...