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View Full Version : After market brake pads.


niktee
04-20-2005, 05:06 AM
I really like the outstanding brakes on my 5-Series, but I've had it with the noise and the never ending dust. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding replacing O.E.M's with some good after-market pads, perhaps ceramics? Thanks!

Ågent99
04-20-2005, 08:54 AM
Go no further than Mr. Dave Zeckhausen:

www.zeckhausen.com (http://www.zeckhausen.com)

Ask him for the Axxis Deluxe+ pads and you'll be all set. I have Axxis front brake pads and I love them!

Tell him Agent99 sent you his way. Dave is a great guy! He is also not terribly far from you (Maplewood, NJ) and it is worth it to visit him in person with some fancy beer and you'll get premium service!

AsianImage
04-20-2005, 09:47 AM
Agreed....I just replaced my front brakes, new rotors and new pads...I installed the Axxis Deluxe...and LOVE IT.

Will never go back to stock again! My rims after 2 weeks still look relatively OK....ALOT better than stock. Huge difference. You wont be dissapointed.

arnolds
04-20-2005, 10:07 AM
Go no further than Mr. Dave Zeckhausen:

www.zeckhausen.com (http://www.zeckhausen.com)

Ask him for the Axxis Deluxe+ pads and you'll be all set. I have Axxis front brake pads and I love them!

Tell him Agent99 sent you his way. Dave is a great guy! He is also not terribly far from you (Maplewood, NJ) and it is worth it to visit him in person with some fancy beer and you'll get premium service!

Hey Agent, I seem to remember our 545's didn't have that much brake dust on them after 1200 miles. Maybe it was the rains that washed it off.

Ågent99
04-20-2005, 10:36 AM
True...we were talking about that. I guess we'll see when they arrive. Have you noticed if many E60s have dirty looking wheels?

roxnadz
04-20-2005, 10:45 AM
Will have to agree re: the assessment on Axxis+ brake pads. They are kick-ass. I've had them on for well over a year with no problems.

Presley348
04-21-2005, 08:54 PM
True...we were talking about that. I guess we'll see when they arrive. Have you noticed if many E60s have dirty looking wheels?



My e60 530i with never ending brake dust, and I need some new brake pads like you guys are talking about, but every place I try say they do not make them for the e60 yet.

As soon as the make them for my 530i e60, I will buy a set quickly! I am sick and tired of cleaning my BMW OEM Style #71 rims on a daily basis, and I refuse to use the Kleen wheels like I once did, (I got tired of seeing the pie plates instead of my rotors, that I now use the Kleen wheels pie plates for freebies! jk LOL)

I welcome any links you might have for your dustless brake pads.

Thanks in advance!

niktee
04-22-2005, 06:36 AM
One would assume the engineering giants at BMW could come up with a solution to such a simple problem. After all, they brought us iDRIVE, and a myriad of electronic/digital whizzbangs to absolutely dazzle and amaze us. WHY NOT FREAKIN" GOOD BRAKES WITH DUSTLESS PADS?

Presley348
04-22-2005, 07:02 AM
Hi niktee:


About you last post about BMW brakes! LOL, Good Point, you know I bet 100% of all Bimmer owners agree with you on the extra excessive Brake dust, and why BMW does not choose to do something about it first, (before the iDrive and all its wonders BMW has done just in the last couple of years), and before all the wonders that Mr. Chris Bangle and his BMW design team does to perfect this well oiled machine (The e60!)! :thumbup:

One would think Chris and his staff would make this one of their priorities to get this age old excessive brake dust issue fixed once and for all! :bawling:

In conclusion: Even when my e60 gets dirty from a little rain, after the award winning E39, I get more complements on my new e60 530i body style design, all but the same old excessive brake dust on my new 71 rims, and then they laugh a little, saying some things will never change at BMW, huh? :dunno:

Sincerely,

R. Eddie Presley

Ågent99
04-22-2005, 09:39 AM
Sorry, I failed to notice that you had an E60 (yes, I know you posted in the E60 forum so I guess even I am still getting used to the split! :) ). Keep pounding on Dave to see what he finds. If anyone can find a good brand of dustless pads for the E60, Dave is the guy!

dste0713
05-25-2005, 06:56 AM
I have a 2000 528i E39. I have had continuous brake rotors and brake pad problems. I the rotors continuouly warp. I now have Brembo Rotors and Axxis Deluxe semi-metallic pads. The rotors warped again within 30 days, and the pads have the most horrible sound that I have ever heard when coming to a stop. Sounds like a big truck. I am going back to the original BMW rotors and pads.

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-25-2005, 06:59 AM
One would assume the engineering giants at BMW could come up with a solution to such a simple problem. After all, they brought us iDRIVE, and a myriad of electronic/digital whizzbangs to absolutely dazzle and amaze us. WHY NOT FREAKIN" GOOD BRAKES WITH DUSTLESS PADS?
Because there is no such thing.

The Axxis Deluxe Plus severely compromises heat resistance and braking torque in exchange for dust free operation. I'm willing to make this sacrifice on the street, but the Deluxe+ would disintegrate inside a couple laps on the tracks, and can't even withstand aggressive driving in the twisties.

Ågent99
05-25-2005, 09:21 AM
The Axxis Deluxe Plus severely compromises heat resistance and braking torque in exchange for dust free operation. I'm willing to make this sacrifice on the street, but the Deluxe+ would disintegrate inside a couple laps on the tracks, and can't even withstand aggressive driving in the twisties.
The Axxis Deluxe Plus is not a track pad. To take it out on hot laps and subject it to 1200 degrees would result in fading and severe pad deposition. Why even mention the performance under such conditions? It holds up just fine on the street.

The Deluxe Plus has slightly less cold bite than stock. Although this is mitigated by doing a good bedding session and many people report better than OEM cold bite but that's probably because they never knew to bed in their stock pads so it's not really a fair comparison.

Paraphrasing from Dave Z.:
I have well over 1,000 sets of Axxis Deluxe Plus pads out there, including on the E46 M3, E39 M5 and even the Z8. The universal response is that they love it. Very low dust. OEM level performance.

Finally, the good news. The Axxis Deluxe Plus is now available for the front of the E60 530i and 545i. Still nothing for the rear, but it's a start. Contact Dave Z. if you want a set! I already placed my order with him.

:thumbup:

roxnadz
05-25-2005, 10:32 AM
Agent: You are saying what I was thinking. I love my Axxis pads. I never had any delusions of taking them out on the track. They've worked great with both regular and panic stops. My rims look great, even after a couple weeks of driving. Now if I could just keep myself from freakin' scraping them along the sidewalk :mad:

SS
05-25-2005, 10:35 AM
Agent: You are saying what I was thinking. I love my Axxis pads. I never had any delusions of taking them out on the track. They've worked great with both regular and panic stops. My rims look great, even after a couple weeks of driving. Now if I could just keep myself from freakin' scraping them along the sidewalk :mad:

Malcolm!!!

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-25-2005, 10:38 AM
The Axxis Deluxe Plus is not a track pad. To take it out on hot laps and subject it to 1200 degrees would result in fading and severe pad deposition. Why even mention the performance under such conditions? It holds up just fine on the street.

The Deluxe Plus has slightly less cold bite than stock. Although this is mitigated by doing a good bedding session and many people report better than OEM cold bite but that's probably because they never knew to bed in their stock pads so it's not really a fair comparison.

Paraphrasing from Dave Z.:
I have well over 1,000 sets of Axxis Deluxe Plus pads out there, including on the E46 M3, E39 M5 and even the Z8. The universal response is that they love it. Very low dust. OEM level performance.

Finally, the good news. The Axxis Deluxe Plus is now available for the front of the E60 530i and 545i. Still nothing for the rear, but it's a start. Contact Dave Z. if you want a set! I already placed my order with him.

:thumbup:
1) He wanted a BMW pad like the Deluxe Plus. Not really possible.
2) People do take them out on the track. They learn very quickly just how dumb this is, but that doesn't mean they won't.
3) It's not hard to fade them out on the street.
4) Normal operating bite isn't as good as stock.

My experience with the Deluxe Plus is that it gives significantly lower brake torque, significantly lower fade resistance, and significantly lower dust than OEM. I run them on my M3 because I'm willing to accept that compromise, but I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they are as good as the stock pads. They aren't.

Ågent99
05-25-2005, 11:22 AM
...but I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they are as good as the stock pads. They aren't.Well, we could try and take a poll and see what people's opinions are on how well the Axxis D+ pads compare to stock pads.

I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they aren't as good as the stock pads. They are.

;)

roxnadz
05-25-2005, 11:30 AM
Malcolm!!!

Hey dude, LTNS...where ya been?

SS
05-25-2005, 11:43 AM
Hey dude, LTNS...where ya been?

Yeah...I have been busy as HECK! I don't really have time to surf the boards any more. How have you been? You need to send me your website link again; we've gotta do some swapping!

SS

SS
05-25-2005, 11:45 AM
Well, we could try and take a poll and see what people's opinions are on how well the Axxis D+ pads compare to stock pads.

I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they aren't as good as the stock pads. They are.

;)
I, personally like mine much better than stock. I do not track my car, but those of you on here who've met me know I am an enthusiastic driver! I wouldn't trade my Axxis Deluxe for the stock pads ever!

BillP
05-25-2005, 12:03 PM
Well, we could try and take a poll and see what people's opinions are how well the Axxis D+ pads compare to stock pads.

I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they aren't as good as the stock pads. They are.

;)

I've had the Axxis Deluxe brake pads on my 2000 540 for about two years:

* Dust - 80%+ less dust than stock
* Bite - not as good as stock, but something you easily learn to
compensate for with a bit more brake pedal - it is definitely
disconcerting at first, but you get used to it - I actually like it
* No squeal/noise/whatever
* No "warping"
* No issue with fade in aggressive street situations (i.e. one big brake
every minute or so)

The only time I had fade in my brakes was with the original pads (one occurrence). I have had subsequent high-speed braking situations with no noticeable issues.

I highly recommend these pads. Should they be billed as "exactly the same as OE pads"? Probably not, but that isn't what was said. Agent99 quoted DaveZ as "OEM level performance" and I agree with that statement.

BTW, if you take your car on the track with road pads/tires you are asking for trouble. Get track pads and a separate set of wheels/tires. We shouldn't hold back product recommendations because that product could be misused by the ill-informed.


Bill

bigredexpy
05-25-2005, 12:17 PM
Very nice wheels, but they must be a PITA to clean.

These's are BWM stock wheels ?

roxnadz
05-25-2005, 02:46 PM
Yeah...I have been busy as HECK! I don't really have time to surf the boards any more. How have you been? You need to send me your website link again; we've gotta do some swapping!

SS

Hey man,

Check my public profile for all the website details, you can PM me as well. I haven't been on many boards all that much either, posting both here and on Roadfly once every week ro two on average. In case you didn't know, the Roadfly boys miss ya. ;) < /sarcasm >

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-25-2005, 02:49 PM
Well, we could try and take a poll and see what people's opinions are on how well the Axxis D+ pads compare to stock pads.

I also have strong objections to people spreading the illusion that they aren't as good as the stock pads. They are.

;)
OK, how are they as good as stock pads?

Fade resistance is much less.
Brake torque is less.
Cold bite is less.

I fail to see how you can claim that they are equal to the OEM pads. I have no objection to people using them, and I use them myself, but I can't understand why you want to perpetuate the delusion that you aren't giving something up in exchange for low dusting.

Kaz
05-25-2005, 03:07 PM
BMW brake dust is a function of a TUV requirement for graphite content, and can, and most likely is, independent of performance; i.e. dust doen't equal good performance. In fact, graphite can and is used as a lubricant so its presence or absence can't possibly be a singular measure of performance in any way.

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-25-2005, 03:19 PM
BMW brake dust is a function of a TUV requirement for graphite content, and can, and most likely is, independent of performance; i.e. dust doen't equal good performance. In fact, graphite can and is used as a lubricant so its presence or absence can't possibly be a singular measure of performance in any way. I don't dispute that. I've had track pads that dust less than OEM. It doesn't change the fact that dustless pads are inherently compromised.

Ågent99
05-25-2005, 03:33 PM
OK, how are they as good as stock pads?

Fade resistance is much less.
Brake torque is less.
Cold bite is less.

I fail to see how you can claim that they are equal to the OEM pads. I have no objection to people using them, and I use them myself, but I can't understand why you want to perpetuate the delusion that you aren't giving something up in exchange for low dusting.I fail to see how you can still make your claims unless you haven't read any other posts here.

Each question you ask or claim you make I can turn right around on you but it gets us no where.

I guess, in the end, all we have are claims by folks who have used the pads and no real, concrete proof.

Shall we agree to disagree? :dunno:

Or, shall we banter around "OEM-level performance" vs. "as good as or equal to OEM." It could be a semantics issue here....

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-25-2005, 03:51 PM
I fail to see how you can still make your claims unless you haven't read any other posts here.

Each question you ask or claim you make I can turn right around on you but it gets us no where.

I guess, in the end, all we have are claims by folks who have used the pads and no real, concrete proof.

Shall we agree to disagree? :dunno:

Or, shall we banter around "OEM-level performance" vs. "as good as or equal to OEM." It could be a semantics issue here.... You know damned well that most of the other people here have no idea what the limits are, and probably wouldn't even know if they passed them. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't even have an idea of where the limit is and how to reach it, there's no real value in your opinion of the performance limits of a specific component. Just to be clear, this is NOT an attack on anyone.

It's not a semantics issue here. They offer significantly LESS than OEM performance.

For most people, including me, this is an acceptable trade-off. I can't comprehend why it is that people refuse to admit that they are doing this. The Axxis Deluxe Plus offers good enough performance for the street. I will even state that most people won't be able to discern how it is an inferior braking solution to the stock pads. That does not mean, however, that it is as good as stock.

Edit: Anyway, I've said my piece. The Deluxe Plus is inferior to the stock pads. If you are willing, like me, to make that trade for little dust on the street, then it is an excellent solution. Just don't delude yourself.

SS
05-25-2005, 03:53 PM
Hey man,

Check my public profile for all the website details, you can PM me as well. I haven't been on many boards all that much either, posting both here and on Roadfly once every week ro two on average. In case you didn't know, the Roadfly boys miss ya. ;) < /sarcasm >


LOL!!! I haven't been on there for quite some time. I've got too many positive things going on in my life to deal with all that negativity. Plus, I'm far too busy now for another addiction; you can't just check that site then walk away!

I'll give you a shout later.

Ågent99
05-25-2005, 04:20 PM
They offer significantly LESS than OEM performance.
Where is your proof? All you are doing is making absolutes with zero to back it up. Significant? How can you say that? Bad word choice.

Offer up some facts and I'll be happy to change my tune. Until then, it is just your opinion...not a fact.

You have your experiences to judge this on, I have mine plus some good field experience by Dave Z.

Nick325xiT 5spd
05-26-2005, 08:37 AM
Where is your proof? All you are doing is making absolutes with zero to back it up. Significant? How can you say that? Bad word choice.

Offer up some facts and I'll be happy to change my tune. Until then, it is just your opinion...not a fact.

You have your experiences to judge this on, I have mine plus some good field experience by Dave Z.
If you want me to go perform scientific tests, I'm not going to. I have, however, faded them out a few times (not on track). They don't have the bite that the stock pads on the M3 had, and my 323i (with those tiny little 15" wheel brakes) stops at least as well as the M3 does now.

Ågent99
05-26-2005, 08:50 AM
Nick,

:thumbup:

We're cool. I'll agree that they do not have the exact same bit as stock pads...however, I just don't agree that it is significantly worse. But, again, we may define significant differently...that is why I think it is semantics partly.

Zippycar
06-01-2005, 09:11 AM
I just took delivery of a Silver Gray Metallic 545i Sport with a 6MT. Yahoo!

I tend to spend a lot of time at the race tracks - my other car is a heavily modified 350Z. 455whp and totally tweaked for road courses. But, eventually I will want to take the 545i out once and a while and while there is not much in the way of upgrades yet for improving an already excellent car, the one area that I think I could improver is the Brakes. New pads and SS lines and Dot 4 Fluid - heck even a BBK upgrade.

Dose anyone know what type of brake pad the front wheels use. Model #. I would like to upgrade to Pagid Blues at all four corners. I can get the rear pad but I am having the hardest time trying to locate the spec for the front. Can anyone help?

Or would it be easier to just call Zeckhausen???

Ågent99
06-01-2005, 01:02 PM
Dave can help you out...absolutely...give him a call or send him an email.

DZeckhausen
06-08-2005, 02:45 PM
Dose anyone know what type of brake pad the front wheels use. Model #. I would like to upgrade to Pagid Blues at all four corners. I can get the rear pad but I am having the hardest time trying to locate the spec for the front. Can anyone help? The Friction Materials Standards Institute (FMSI) (http://www.fmsi.org/FMSI/about/about.asp) designation for the front pads on your 545i is D918. You can use that number to cross reference pads from any manufacturer. I don't know if Pagid makes the RS421 (Blue) in that shape yet, but I do know you can get the Axxis Ultimate, which is a better pad at a lower price. The Axxis part number is 107-09180. According to my latest Hawk spreadsheet, they do not have a part number for this application yet.

heezyo2o
06-08-2005, 08:00 PM
So all together, how much would some axxis deluxe pads cost. With the actual pads, shipping and install?

DZeckhausen
06-08-2005, 08:44 PM
So all together, how much would some axxis deluxe pads cost. With the actual pads, shipping and install?That's going to vary tremendously, depending on where you buy the pads and on who you pay to install them for you.

I've had very good luck with Avus Autosport in Glendale. Call (818) 500-7663 and speak with Andrew. They're a Dinan shop and really know their stuff.

Ågent99
06-09-2005, 08:48 AM
Folks,

Dave Zeckhausen happens to be a retailer of Axxis pads (and a myriad of other performance products for cars) so understand that he cannot answer questions about prices nor make strong recommendations--he is a rare vendor with high moral/ethical fiber. Just contact him for that information off of the board and he will take care of you! :thumbup:

abqhudson
06-09-2005, 05:41 PM
I paid around $90. for my front Axxis pads from Dave and installed them myself. I am still using the OEM rears as they do not cause as much dust as the fronts. Working just fine for me.

YMMV.

Jim

Ågent99
06-10-2005, 09:20 AM
I paid around $90. for my front Axxis pads from Dave and installed them myself. I am still using the OEM rears as they do not cause as much dust as the fronts. Working just fine for me.

YMMV.

Jim
I did exactly that on my 2001 530i...now the rears need replaced and I gotta find that secret hiding spot where I placed the rears I bought from Dave in 2003!!! :mad:

Nick325xiT 5spd
06-10-2005, 09:26 AM
I did exactly that on my 2001 530i...now the rears need replaced and I gotta find that secret hiding spot where I placed the rears I bought from Dave in 2003!!! :mad:
See, that was the thing that really convinced me that the Axxis has much less brake torque than stock. When you really drive the car hard, you'll find that the brake bias has shifted to the rear. I drove like that for a couple of weeks, and I had monster ABS insterference when trailbraking.

DZeckhausen
06-10-2005, 11:22 AM
I did exactly that on my 2001 530i...now the rears need replaced and I gotta find that secret hiding spot where I placed the rears I bought from Dave in 2003!!! :mad:Did you try checking inside the box that's propping open your bathroom door? ;)

Ågent99
06-10-2005, 11:23 AM
Nick, I think you misunderstood my post.

I put the Axxis D+ pads on the fronts maybe 2 years ago...just now (57k), the rears need replaced...they are still orginal.

On the other hand, now that I have an E39 with Axxis D+ fronts, stock OEM rears, and an E60 with stock OEM fronts and rears, it sure seems that the E60 stops much quicker than the E39 and with less brake effort.

DZeckhausen
06-12-2005, 07:51 PM
Nick, I think you misunderstood my post.

I put the Axxis D+ pads on the fronts maybe 2 years ago...just now (57k), the rears need replaced...they are still orginal.

On the other hand, now that I have an E39 with Axxis D+ fronts, stock OEM rears, and an E60 with stock OEM fronts and rears, it sure seems that the E60 stops much quicker than the E39 and with less brake effort.Have you put the new pads on your E60 yet? If so, did you find the new clip design on the outboard pad to be interesting?

Ågent99
06-13-2005, 09:59 AM
Have you put the new pads on your E60 yet? If so, did you find the new clip design on the outboard pad to be interesting?I haven't yet done it but I will post comments when I do! You've certainly piqued my interest...got pics on your site? :)

DZeckhausen
06-13-2005, 10:09 AM
I haven't yet done it but I will post comments when I do! You've certainly piqued my interest...got pics on your site? :)Not yet. The outboard pad has a pair of clips that hook into the caliper. I expect they are designed to damp out vibration and cut down on either squealing or rattling. As soon as I perform an installation of a BBK on an E60 5-Series or an E65 7-Series, I'll know.