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wagonman
05-11-2005, 11:40 AM
for those interested, i priced out an e61 touring (530 xit) vs a comparably equipped x5 3.0. the price difference is 6500 dollars. the touring comes out to 60,650. the x5 comes out to 54,115. since one cannot do ED on an x5, the price differential is even smaller assuming we can do better with ED than not...

rather than compare the x5 to the 5 series touring, how about comporing the x5 to its true competition. the x5 is outdone by the volvo xc90 in my opinion. the volvo is a better designed, safer, more practical suv and its cheaper. the x5 looks better and is bimmer.

for me, the extra 6500 is well worth the exclusivity ( there will be far fewer 530 xit's than x5s) and the functionality.

i completelt understand that i am in the minority though... :dunno:

iateyourcheese
05-11-2005, 11:45 AM
That and it would be silly to have "wagonman" as your username and drive an X5.

:D

I think the e61 looks great. In fact, way better than the sedan.

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 12:14 PM
for those interested, i priced out an e61 touring (530 xit) vs a comparably equipped x5 3.0. the price difference is 6500 dollars. the touring comes out to 60,650. the x5 comes out to 54,115. since one cannot do ED on an x5, the price differential is even smaller assuming we can do better with ED than not...

rather than compare the x5 to the 5 series touring, how about comporing the x5 to its true competition. the x5 is outdone by the volvo xc90 in my opinion. the volvo is a better designed, safer, more practical suv and its cheaper. the x5 looks better and is bimmer.

for me, the extra 6500 is well worth the exclusivity ( there will be far fewer 530 xit's than x5s) and the functionality.

i completelt understand that i am in the minority though... :dunno:

How did you get these prices?

wagonman
05-11-2005, 12:25 PM
off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!! :bigpimp:

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.

wagonman
05-11-2005, 12:26 PM
That and it would be silly to have "wagonman" as your username and drive an X5.

:D

I think the e61 looks great. In fact, way better than the sedan.


apparently, i am not the only one who thinks the wagon looks better than the sedan!

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 01:07 PM
off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!! :bigpimp:

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.

I'm sorry...I'm obviously stupid. Can you please specifically list the options that you are including into the cars. You listed the options that you're excluding from the car and made it inherintly difficult to build the same car as you did. Also, for the sake of consistency, can you select the same color for both cars.

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 01:32 PM
apparently, i am not the only one who thinks the wagon looks better than the sedan!

I completely agree with that statement. I also think the wagon resolves some of the issues with the sedan and I also think it's vastly more versatile than the sedan. MY issue with the E61 is solely based on price. IT'S OVERPRICED. As evidence I offered a comparsion to the X5 3.0.

Here's another price comparison. Take the 530xit, add premium, automatic and xenon (Things that are all standard on a 545)and it's within $300 of a comparable 545i. I don't need the all wheel drive. Winter tires are fine, thank you. Are you kidding me? Also, I may be unusual in this but I forewent the E39 wagon because it wasn't available with the 3.0 liter.

Ågent99
05-11-2005, 01:34 PM
Unfortunately, the BMW touring sedans just aren't all that popular here so you will be severely limited in what is offered. Just look at the sales of BMW's SUV, that is all you need to know what sells here....

gojira-san
05-11-2005, 01:36 PM
Here's another price comparison. Take the 530xit, add premium, automatic and xenon (Things that are all standard on a 545)and it's within $300 of a comparable 545i. I don't need the all wheel drive. Winter tires are fine, thank you. Are you kidding me? Also, I may be unusual in this but I forewent the E39 wagon because it wasn't available with the 3.0 liter.Ow, price is another nail in the coffin I guess. I was bummed that only the xi version would be available on the Touring models. The E60 style still hasn't grown on me either, though I admit it does look better in the Touring model vs the sedan. Well, I plan on driving my E39 touring for another 5 years anyway. ;)

mbforme
05-11-2005, 01:53 PM
another thing tio keep in mind, if you buy an X5, you will still have technology from several years ago.. I ordered a 530xiT to replace a 325xiT. If i would go for the X5, it would have the same navigation system as my old 325xiT!! Also, the 530xiT has the new engine (faster and more gas efficient) thant the current X5 3.0.

And i totally agree with Wagonman... here in the SF Bay Area you so almost as much X5's driving around as you see Honda Accords!!

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 02:25 PM
Ow, price is another nail in the coffin I guess. I was bummed that only the xi version would be available on the Touring models. The E60 style still hasn't grown on me either, though I admit it does look better in the Touring model vs the sedan. Well, I plan on driving my E39 touring for another 5 years anyway. ;)

I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 02:30 PM
And i totally agree with Wagonman... here in the SF Bay Area you so almost as much X5's driving around as you see Honda Accords!!

It's a Wagon. Nobody will care or notice (outside of the .001% of the population that happens to be in the CCA :) ).

I WISH Honda Accords drove like BMW's (and cost like Hondas). I'd have no problem assimilating into the crowd with my Honda 530i. :thumbup:

be-em-veh-808
05-11-2005, 02:52 PM
I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?

Shabbaman,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the 530 xiT comes with Xenon lights as standard equipment. For US E60/61s, Xenons are $800 options only for 525 and 525xi; standard for all others.

Leather is an optional cost item (standard only on 545i), you're right on there!

wagonman
05-11-2005, 02:55 PM
i agree the 530 xit is expensive. there is no denying it. did anyone ever say bimmers were cheap? :dunno:

if you want to talk value for money. the real deals in the bmw line are the 325i and 525i. same body styles (for better or for worse), better gas mileage (does anyone care?) for a good deal less and for all practical purposes enough power for most uses.

i will get back to you on prices and options on the e61 touring vs the x3.0

i agree that the touring pushes the envelope price wise...i really wanted it though and i only buy 1 car every 6 years or so....maybe next time i will choose something lower priced. i catually saw photos of the upcoming 3 series touring. :thumbdwn:

it had nowhere near the grace and elegance of the 5 series. i am not married to wagons. if the sedan version looks better i go for that :thumbup:

be-em-veh-808
05-11-2005, 02:55 PM
off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!! :bigpimp:

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.

Wagonman,

Sorry if this is a repost, I did not see my first reply to your post.

How/where did you get 530xiT pricing on the bmwusa.com site? I've been checking frequently, but have never found any pricing/option data for the Touring/Estate model on the site.

Please advise

wagonman
05-11-2005, 02:59 PM
I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?

if the touring was 1000 or 1500 would i still consider it? interesting question. i dont know the answer. is it overpriced? the same question could be put to the entire bmw dont you think?

winter tires are a hassle. and, talk about an epense. i want one car that does it all. no snows, no hassles. the e61 is as close as one can get to a do it all vehicle...imho

mbforme
05-11-2005, 03:03 PM
i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...

wagonman
05-11-2005, 03:41 PM
i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...

price comparsons are most appropriate with other like models. your above mentioned comps are accurate as those two vehicles are direct competion.

the prices i obtained from my dealer. they are not listed on bmwusa.com --yet. base price on the 530 xit is 51,100. premium package is 2100, cold weather packae is 900. nav is the same 1800, rear side air bags are 385, sat radio is the same. logic7 is the same.

no doubt it is a very expensive car. IMHO all these cars are a lot of money!! compared to the mercedes 320 4 matic and upcoming audi a6 avant the 530 xit is not out of line..

i do agree with shabbaman about pricing, my only comment is that one could make the argument (quite convincingly) that ALL bimmers are overpriced....



i have been planning to buy the 530 xit for at least 8 months. there was little to no info on it until very recently. i was hoping bmw would bring it out at a base price of 49k or so. i was wrong! :bawling:

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 06:44 PM
i do agree with shabbaman about pricing, my only comment is that one could make the argument (quite convincingly) that ALL bimmers are overpriced....



Wagonman, have you been listening (er...reading) to a word of what I'm saying? I'm directly comparing the 530 wagon to a very similar BMW - the X5 and the 530 wagon is, according to you, $6500 more than the X5. So if ALL bimmers are overpriced to begin with then I guess that makes the 530 wagon insanely overpriced.

If you don't think I'm on the ball, consider this comparison - the X3 2.5 and the 325xit. If you add the sunroof to the X3, the 325 is only $1300 more expensive than the X3.


I'm definately beating a dead horse with my ranting but I'm frustrated because BMW has priced this car right out of its' market and they won't spend any money to push it so the car is relegated to sell on it's own merit. And at the end of the day BMW will turn around and say that the wagon is a failure and the US market is not interested. It's all too bad, though because it's a great car. I truly believe that it blows the sedan away. If you look at my Sig you'll see that I have a child seat in my car so I'm exactly the demographic that's sensitive to this car. I need the space and utility that it offers in a more efficient package than the SAV's. I want somebody from BMW to sell me this car.

shabbaman
05-11-2005, 06:46 PM
i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...


Yeah, ED is the way to go. Unfortunately, most people don't take advantage of it.
:tsk:

wagonman
05-11-2005, 09:53 PM
i realize the e61 is expensive. i dont know the hows and whys of bmws thinking regarding pricing. my understanding is that the wagon will be a limited production vehicle.

i dont think that bmw expects to sell alot of them. i hope you are wrong regarding the car being a failure and subsequently discontinuing the model.

bmw wagons have something of a cult following (albeit small). i think as long as audi, and mercedes have a wagon, bmw will have one as well.

i see your point shaba man, regarding price differentials. no disrespect to you at all...

it's true, i wish the base on this car was below 50k. but as a consumer the choice is always our to make. if not for ED and additional 4% discount. i can guarantee you i would not be buying the car. this the absolute most i would pay for any car...and i agree wholeheartedly it is a great deal of money...

i have had moments of nervousness about it thinking, shoot i should have boughta 330i for 14k less! at this point i am just looking forward to the car and hope i enjoy it!

gojira-san
05-12-2005, 04:35 AM
i have had moments of nervousness about it thinking, shoot i should have boughta 330i for 14k less! at this point i am just looking forward to the car and hope i enjoy it!I am looking forward to your review of the car when you get it. :)

It's too bad the the station wagon gets such a bad rap here in the US. Maybe with the increased gas prices we'll see a wagon renaissance. :thumbup:

andy_thomas
05-12-2005, 06:24 AM
Wagonman, have you been listening (er...reading) to a word of what I'm saying? I'm directly comparing the 530 wagon to a very similar BMW - the X5 and the 530 wagon is, according to you, $6500 more than the X5. So if ALL bimmers are overpriced to begin with then I guess that makes the 530 wagon insanely overpriced.

If you don't think I'm on the ball, consider this comparison - the X3 2.5 and the 325xit. If you add the sunroof to the X3, the 325 is only $1300 more expensive than the X3.

Where is the X5 made? Where is the 5er touring made (and the 3er touring and X3 for that matter)? What is the current €/$ FX rate? All these questions and more :)

I'm definately beating a dead horse with my ranting but I'm frustrated because BMW has priced this car right out of its' market

Do you mean the market for luxury European station wagons? It appears to be right in the middle. I don't know about the US market, but in most other places the SUV and station wagon markets don't have a lot to do with each other.

Here (UK) the 530d estate is quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent X5. Truth be told more people buy the X5 because of the size, height and bling factor; they wouldn't be interested in a boring old wagon that could run rings around the X5 in every objective factor except the ability to cross a muddy field (which they wouldn't appreciate anyway). This is a much bigger deal for importers than any pricing issue.

mbforme
05-12-2005, 09:32 AM
It's a Wagon. Nobody will care or notice (outside of the .001% of the population that happens to be in the CCA :) ).


That's the great thing of a wagon... it's like having an IWC watch, most people won't notice, but it's that .001% that notice that will make your day!
:)

shabbaman
05-12-2005, 10:15 AM
That's the great thing of a wagon... it's like having an IWC watch, most people won't notice, but it's that .001% that notice that will make your day!
:)


I hope you will be very happy with your wagon

wagonman
05-12-2005, 10:37 AM
i will be sure to post a detailed review of the car when i get back from europe. :)

Ågent99
05-12-2005, 01:34 PM
i will be sure to post a detailed review of the car when i get back from europe. :)
:thumbup:

Look forward to it! Enjoy your time there, it is so cool!

shabbaman
05-12-2005, 06:03 PM
Where is the X5 made? Where is the 5er touring made (and the 3er touring and X3 for that matter)? What is the current €/$ FX rate? All these questions and more :)
.

It's irrelevant where the cars are made since one of the benefits of placing your factories in different geographic regions is to allow for hedging against specific currency fluctuations and volatility. But, to answer your question - the X3 is made in Austria, the X5 in America, the 5 and the 3 are made in Germany.


you mean the market for luxury European station wagons? It appears to be right in the middle. I don't know about the US market, but in most other places the SUV and station wagon markets don't have a lot to do with each other.

Andy, unlike you guys, we don't have several 5 series wagons to chose from. While you have the RWD wagon or the 525 wagon or the 545 wagon (and let's not forget that silky diesel) ALL we have is a 530i with all wheel drive. That's it. And it's expensive. In America the wagon and the SUV markets have everything to do with each other. SUV's became popular because they were a viable (and 'cool') alternative to wagons. There's definately a correlation between the two. Again, my main point was that even though both vehicles have very similar technical specifications - same engine, drive system, interior accomodations, both are 5 series chassis, warranty, etc... the wagon costs almost $10000 more than the SUV.



Here (UK) the 530d estate is quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent X5. Truth be told more people buy the X5 because of the size, height and bling factor; they wouldn't be interested in a boring old wagon that could run rings around the X5 in every objective factor except the ability to cross a muddy field (which they wouldn't appreciate anyway). This is a much bigger deal for importers than any pricing issue



Could you imagine how many more would buy the X5 if the 530d cost 3000 pounds more (sorry, US keyboard, no pound sign :dunno: ). And again THAT is my point when I say that the wagon is priced out of the market range.

shabbaman
05-12-2005, 06:09 PM
i will be sure to post a detailed review of the car when i get back from europe. :)


Take lots of pictures and be sure to post. And be sure to give us the 'stability report' at 150 miles per hour. :thumbup:

wagonman
05-12-2005, 09:15 PM
Take lots of pictures and be sure to post. And be sure to give us the 'stability report' at 150 miles per hour. :thumbup:

dont know about the 150 mph stability report :dunno: will do my best though :thumbup:

Ågent99
05-13-2005, 09:08 AM
dont know about the 150 mph stability report :dunno: will do my best though :thumbup:
My 545i is rock solid at max speed...152 mph was the best I could do in it.

:thumbup:

BillP
05-14-2005, 08:20 AM
My 545i is rock solid at max speed...152 mph was the best I could do in it.

:thumbup:

I have notified my lawyer ... again!

;-)

One thing I don't get. There is talk of the E61 being $6500 more than the comparably equipped X5 and talk of the delta being $10K. Which is right?

BTW, if you want the vehicle for storage space, the wagon kicks the snot out of the SUV/SAV. Square footage is the key - height is of little use to most people and those who really need it (i.e. bikes) use a roof-rack anyway.


Bill

bouteill
05-14-2005, 03:47 PM
But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?

I agree it's overpriced but I must admit that, given how high the price point is already, they can easily squeeze a few more $K out of us wagon fans. :dunno:
I'm certainly willing to pay for it! I ordered one through ED and I can't wait! :) This is a unique vehicle which combines cargo capabilities and the handling of a sport sedan. The fact that it is not common makes it only more appealing to me.

wagonman
05-14-2005, 04:21 PM
I agree it's overpriced but I must admit that, given how high the price point is already, they can easily squeeze a few more $K out of us wagon fans. :dunno:
I'm certainly willing to pay for it! I ordered one through ED and I can't wait! :) This is a unique vehicle which combines cargo capabilities and the handling of a sport sedan. The fact that it is not common makes it only more appealing to me.

very well said by bouteill. i am in total agreement. regarding pricing differential between the e61 touring and the x5 3.0 here goes: i priced the x5 with the following options: cold weather package, steptronic, heated steering wheel (standard in the e61 cold pack), auto dimming ligghts (standard on the premium package on the e61), premium packake, xenons (standard on the e61), nav, premium sound, halogens( i believe these are standard on the wagon). the price is compared to the msrp on my e61 which i ordered with the following: cold weather pack, premium package, premium sound, rear side aig bags, nav, satt radio. i did not see sat radio offered on bmwusa.com for the x5. so, i deducted that from my e61 price. also, i did not see rear side aig bags either so i will dedeuct that as well. the e61 comes out to 59,670. the x5 53,770. a price difference of 5900. when one factors in ED this spread narrows even further. so, unless my math is off, or i didnt add thye right options, we have far less than a 10k spread between the two cars. the base price is 10k apart but when optioned out that narrows considerably. now, does the e61 look overpriced relative to the x5 3.0? i dont think so. although i certainly respect those who feel an msrp of 60k is a helluva lot of $$$!

sportsnut10
05-20-2005, 04:26 PM
I am thinking of purchasing a 530xit but I need to know the dimensions. Does anybody know what the height is from the deck sill to the top inside door and the width at the top of the door where it is the narrowest?

sportsnut10
05-20-2005, 04:28 PM
I am thinking of purchasing a 530xit but I need to know the dimensions. Does anybody know what the height is from the deck sill to the top inside door and the width at the top of the door where it is the narrowest?

bmwxdrive
05-20-2005, 04:43 PM
for those interested, i priced out an e61 touring (530 xit) vs a comparably equipped x5 3.0. the price difference is 6500 dollars. the touring comes out to 60,650. the x5 comes out to 54,115. since one cannot do ED on an x5, the price differential is even smaller assuming we can do better with ED than not...

rather than compare the x5 to the 5 series touring, how about comporing the x5 to its true competition. the x5 is outdone by the volvo xc90 in my opinion. the volvo is a better designed, safer, more practical suv and its cheaper. the x5 looks better and is bimmer.

for me, the extra 6500 is well worth the exclusivity ( there will be far fewer 530 xit's than x5s) and the functionality.

i completelt understand that i am in the minority though... :dunno:
I dont know about the design and the safety but the practical part, the XC90 takes it. Also the X is a better performer!

uter
05-20-2005, 04:48 PM
I am thinking of purchasing a 530xit but I need to know the dimensions. Does anybody know what the height is from the deck sill to the top inside door and the width at the top of the door where it is the narrowest?

Here's the brochure link with diminsions (http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/A7806DB2-D591-432F-B32F-CE2C2C363C65/0/530xiT_broch.pdf)

I thought the bmw.com website listed dimension, but I think the little video only shows volume of storage space.