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View Full Version : hmm black handles? and mp3


wingrove
05-23-2005, 03:29 AM
got my new X3 and although i asked for the interior buffed chrome kit at no extra cost (as the car coming from interstate BMW warehouse had a black interior) they have fitted it but i still have black int. door handles. They say that my car is an august 04 build and only in september did they intoduced the chrome handles.
havent taken them to task properly as we are yet to have a face to face about it. But im pretty cheesed off as I was definately buying a new unregistered car and have now been told that I kind of have the 'older' model. After you stare for weeks at the brochure while you wait for your car to arrive you notice things like that. when the brochure shows them in every shot and your new car doesnt have them its something you pick up on. Also although the brochure states that i have MP3 playback on my stereo Ill be damned if any of the million ways ive tried to burn disks has got me playing one yet! Hopefully thats not more evidence of my 'older' model. Must say that its definately taken the edge of the 'first week ecstasy' im in. Still the best car i have ever driven by far and a real buzz.
j

Caesar
05-23-2005, 04:54 AM
got my new X3 and although i asked for the interior buffed chrome kit at no extra cost (as the car coming from interstate BMW warehouse had a black interior) they have fitted it but i still have black int. door handles. They say that my car is an august 04 build and only in september did they intoduced the chrome handles.
havent taken them to task properly as we are yet to have a face to face about it. But im pretty cheesed off as I was definately buying a new unregistered car and have now been told that I kind of have the 'older' model. After you stare for weeks at the brochure while you wait for your car to arrive you notice things like that. when the brochure shows them in every shot and your new car doesnt have them its something you pick up on. Also although the brochure states that i have MP3 playback on my stereo Ill be damned if any of the million ways ive tried to burn disks has got me playing one yet! Hopefully thats not more evidence of my 'older' model. Must say that its definately taken the edge of the 'first week ecstasy' im in. Still the best car i have ever driven by far and a real buzz.
j

What's the VIN -- the 10th digit (or the 9th -- I forget) indicates the model year. Is it a 5 or a 4?

wingrove
05-23-2005, 05:19 AM
WBAPA92020WB33XXX thats the chassis # (is that the same as the vin?)
No 4 or 5 in there!
j

mvandenbos
05-23-2005, 06:34 AM
Apparently mine is an october 04 build date and I have the chrome handles. Mine was "brand new" too ... picked up last week for my birthday. They were upfront with me about it but they also said there were not any differences between my build and one in 05. Haven't tried the mp3 capacity yet ... I'm interstate and my new car is getting some bugs worked I noticed during the first week. It is a sweet ride I'd agree. Beats my old Honda Civic CXi any day ... what a comparison that would make!

JG
05-23-2005, 07:07 AM
WBAPA92020WB33XXX thats the chassis # (is that the same as the vin?)
No 4 or 5 in there!
j

1st character W = country of manufacture (W= Germany although this is technically not correct)

2nd character B = BMW

3rd character A = vehicle type or manufacturing division (this should be and X as far as I know)

4th character through 8th PA920 = features attributes body styles etc.

9th character = 2 Vin check number or letter

10th character model year - yours is 0 and there is no such year code

11th character = assembly plant

12-17th character = sequence of vehicle production as it rolled off the line. The last 4 characters are always numeric.

So there is something wrong with the VIN you indicated. The 10 character (year) is incorrect - should be a 4 or 5, and the last characters B33XXX are not right.

wingrove
05-23-2005, 07:18 AM
Yes I was told no differene in 04 / 05 build. its just that the brochure they gave me has tonnes of pictures of the chrome handle and lists mp3 playback. the brochure and the cars in the showroom is all you have to go by really so when you order a car you expect it to be whats in the brochure. Also when the demo in the showroom that you can drive away today has it, but the car i had to wait two weeks for delivery doesnt, I feel right to be a bit annoyed. Mind you the seperate 'features and prices' brochure also lists chrome window trim and kidney bars as standard but none of the cars actually have it.

Caesar
05-23-2005, 07:28 AM
Yes I was told no differene in 04 / 05 build. its just that the brochure they gave me has tonnes of pictures of the chrome handle and lists mp3 playback. the brochure and the cars in the showroom is all you have to go by really so when you order a car you expect it to be whats in the brochure. Also when the demo in the showroom that you can drive away today has it, but the car i had to wait two weeks for delivery doesnt, I feel right to be a bit annoyed. Mind you the seperate 'features and prices' brochure also lists chrome window trim and kidney bars as standard but none of the cars actually have it.

In the U.S. -- the 2005 models have (which the 2004s don't):

1. a chrome/metallic step-on plate with BMW on it on the floor when you open the door

2. Interior door handles are brushed aluminum (not black plastic)

3. Stock CD player plays .mp3 files

I think that's it for the main differences.

Note that the chrome window trims and grills don't apply in the U.S -- but they do in Canada. Don't know if they would apply on 2005 X3s in Australia.

Caesar
05-23-2005, 07:33 AM
WBAPA92020WB33XXX thats the chassis # (is that the same as the vin?)
No 4 or 5 in there!
j

Here's my VIN:

WBXPA93405WD11615

My 10th digit is a "5" -- which indicates 2005 model year.

I got my VIN off of the BMW Owner's Circle -- if you financed through BMW, you should be able to get your VIN from that site (pull up your account info).

By the way, this site has all the VIN info you could need, including how to find it on a BMW:

http://www.autohausaz.com/bmw-auto-parts/bmw-vehicle-identification-numbers.html

Once you find it, use the online VIN decoder here (enter your VIN and press search):

http://www.carfax.com/

Here's the info it returned on my VIN:

VIN: WBXPA93405WD11615
Year/Make/Model: 2005 BMW X3 3.0
Body Style: 4 Dr. Wagon/Sport Utility
Manufactured In: GERMANY

wingrove
05-23-2005, 01:04 PM
Funilly enough the dealer says according to his brochure i can have chrome window grills and kidney bars for $260, the brochure he gave me says its all standard! (but ive bever seen ANY ONE with it) there is more than a little confusion and i feel im educating my dealer on all this a little. Told him i had two weeks to study it and if id seen chrome widows and kidneys for only $260 i would have gone for that!

Hmm class begins students.

SabreXray
05-23-2005, 01:17 PM
1st character W = country of manufacture (W= Germany although this is technically not correct)


Why do you say that? All the X3s are built here in Germany. My dealer assures me delivery is 3-5 days after it rolls off the factory floor to here in Bavaria (Bayern). I was thinking about an X5 and she says delivery for the X5 is 35-45 days. (Kinda funny I would have to "import" a German car to Germany). Short delivery time is one of the reason I want an X3.

JP

Caesar
05-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Why do you say that? All the X3s are built here in Germany. My dealer assures me delivery is 3-5 days after it rolls off the factory floor to here in Bavaria (Bayern). I was thinking about an X5 and she says delivery for the X5 is 35-45 days. (Kinda funny I would have to "import" a German car to Germany). Short delivery time is one of the reason I want an X3.

JP

Technically, the X3 is built in Austria ( a separate country, at least since the end of WWII) at the Magna Steyr assembly plant:

http://www.autoindex.org/maker.plt?no=139

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_magna_steyr_lands/

The plant is in Graz, Austria (the home town of Arnold Schwarzenegger):

Magna-Steyr
Plant Models
Graz BMW X3, Chrysler Voyager, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Mercedes-Benz E class 4Matic, G class, M class, Saab 9.3 convertible

SabreXray
05-23-2005, 01:37 PM
I looked it up myself after I asked. THe X3 isn't technically a BMW. Austria borders Bavaria so I am guessing the transit time for the trucks isn't much longer than from the BMW factories here in Germany.

I passed 3 car carrier BMW trucks a few days ago (A70 near Bamberg traveling direction Schweinfurt) . One was all X3s, the other two were mixed cars, no SAVs. All traveling together. I thought it was kind of strange. But hadn't realized the X3 came from a different factory. I guess the X3 truck had met up with the other two somewhere and were heading together somewhere. They (the X3s) all had the bubble wrap on them so I am guessing they were straight from the factory.

JP

Caesar
05-23-2005, 01:42 PM
I looked it up myself after I asked. THe X3 isn't technically a BMW.

JP

Sure it is -- just not built in a plant owned by BMW -- instead, the assembly is contracted out. However, the concept, design, etc. are all BMW.

I believe other BMWs have been contracted out for assembly in the past.

pipo
05-23-2005, 02:49 PM
I'm not certain about this, but I believe the plant switched from 2004 production to 2005 production in September 2004. If so, that would make your X3 a 2004. In any case, if you recently placed your order, why are they giving you a vehicle produced in 2004?

I would investigate this aggressively, and if it turns out that you have a 2004, they should either offer you a steep discount acceptable to you in your discretion, or give you an entirely new X3.

adc
05-23-2005, 04:05 PM
I'm not certain about this, but I believe the plant switched from 2004 production to 2005 production in September 2004. If so, that would make your X3 a 2004. In any case, if you recently placed your order, why are they giving you a vehicle produced in 2004?

I would investigate this aggressively, and if it turns out that you have a 2004, they should either offer you a steep discount acceptable to you in your discretion, or give you an entirely new X3.

I subscribe to this view - if you paid for a NEW vehicle, then you should get a 2005 model. Any leftover 2004 model should carry a steep discount, because it's value as a used car will be diminished.

I truly think you should obtain:
- a BIG discount that will take care of the added depreciation
- free retro-fit of 2005 specific items (door handles, MP3 player etc.)
- groveling apologies for the misrepresentation

Otherwise I'd sue to have them buy back the vehicle.

adc
03 330 ZHP

b-y
05-23-2005, 06:09 PM
Many different things are being mixed up here. As background, all of the following are correct:

1. The X3 is a BMW.
2. It is assembled by Magna Styer in Graz, Austria.
3. BMW has several assembly plants, including ones in Germany, South Africa, USA.
4. As a German-based company BMW often uses "W" to indicate Germany as country of manufacture, even for vehicles assembled in other countries.
5. So far "Country of Manufacture", country of final assembly, and country of origin all can (note: not "must") be different, although there are rumors this may change.
6. The model-year switch over does not have to occur at the start of a month, so there may be a final assembly month with two model years.
7. Trim in the US changed between MY 2004 and MY 2005.
8. Trim for MY 2005 is different in the US and in Canada.
9. The model year, by law in the US, must agree on the Certificate of Origin (which final consumers generally do not see), the window sticker, the vehicle identification number (the 10th digit referred to above), and the title. Many states will not accept documents where these do not agree unless there is a valid reason noted on a Certificate of Exception or a similar document.
10. Trim can differ from what is in the pre-release brochures and the vehicles as actually built and delivered. Similarly, trim can be changed during the model year without notice. There are usually disclaimers in every sales brochure pointing this out.

Hope this helps clear things up rather than adds to the confusion.

torzeck
05-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Here in the USA:
Other things to look for:
- The 2005 X3 has a one piece front fender vs. The 2004 X3 has a two piece front fender {there is a part line just back of the front wheel.

- The 2005 X3 has a black center console vs. the 2004 has a basalt grey center console

I have no idea what theAustralia spec is, but Good luck!

JG
05-23-2005, 07:34 PM
Sure it is -- just not built in a plant owned by BMW -- instead, the assembly is contracted out. However, the concept, design, etc. are all BMW.

I believe other BMWs have been contracted out for assembly in the past.

The plant in Graz has a very high rating (see current JD Power ratings for the X3). Graz also assembles other vehicles such as:

Mercedes E and J class and Saab 9-3.

The engines are manufactured in Germany as are other parts. Graz does some design and engineering work on contract.

The detailed vehicle concept worked out by BMW engineers was forwarded to MAGNA STEYR for serial development and production at Graz.

This year - Graz has outdone the X5 plant in the U.S.

Excellent for a vehicle in only it's second year of production.

Having said that - the JD Powers 2005 report for the Saab 9-3 sucks!

I guess you can only put a good vehicle together if it is designed correctly in the first place.

wingrove
05-23-2005, 09:11 PM
yes i got a great deal, prices i originally was given showed i couldnt afford a new car with the extras i wanted so looked around and found a 6 month old demonstrator that had 10k on the clock but i all the options i couldnt originally afford, rang back the original dealer to say thanks for your help but ive found a demo but they said give us an hour, rang me back and offered me a new car for the same money. They may have chatted about 04 / 05 but they thought they were essentially the same car with no changes, Now that ive brought it to their attention they realise they were wrong. They are being pro active and escalating the issue with bmw HQ and internally as i stressed to them that it was never made clear to me that i was gettting anything but the latest model.

Look, I love the car and apart from the mp3, door sills and interior door handles its essentailly an 05. I got the 3.0L i really wanted with all the options on my shopping list and for the price of a six month old demo. BMW is a very very prestigous brand here in oz and the dealers can get really roasted by HQ for not doing right by their customers. I like my dealer and they are being pro active about what i beleive at this stage to be a genuine mistake.

We'll see what pans out i guess but i wont let it go as i will fight hard for the principal of the thing. Anyway in the meantime im having a blast with it.

pipo
05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
yes i got a great deal, prices i originally was given showed i couldnt afford a new car with the extras i wanted so looked around and found a 6 month old demonstrator that had 10k on the clock but i all the options i couldnt originally afford, rang back the original dealer to say thanks for your help but ive found a demo but they said give us an hour, rang me back and offered me a new car for the same money. They may have chatted about 04 / 05 but they thought they were essentially the same car with no changes, Now that ive brought it to their attention they realise they were wrong. They are being pro active and escalating the issue with bmw HQ and internally as i stressed to them that it was never made clear to me that i was gettting anything but the latest model.

Look, I love the car and apart from the mp3, door sills and interior door handles its essentailly an 05. I got the 3.0L i really wanted with all the options on my shopping list and for the price of a six month old demo. BMW is a very very prestigous brand here in oz and the dealers can get really roasted by HQ for not doing right by their customers. I like my dealer and they are being pro active about what i beleive at this stage to be a genuine mistake.

We'll see what pans out i guess but i wont let it go as i will fight hard for the principal of the thing. Anyway in the meantime im having a blast with it.

What does your purchase documentation say? If it says 2005, they owe you a 2005. If it says 2004, did they try to slip it by you, knowing that you believed you were getting a 2005, but hoping you wouldn't notice so they could close the deal? Even if they didn't believe there were any changes between 2004 and 2005 (suspicious), a 2005 is worth more than a 2004, and if they promised you a 2005, that's what you should get.

The counterpoint, of course, is that you received excellent pricing regardless of what they did or didn't do, so perhaps that is the saving grace. Let us know how you make out.

wingrove
05-24-2005, 01:40 AM
had a quick look at the paperwork yesterday, will check again but first glance didnt mention or have a field for model year.
j

Caesar
05-24-2005, 04:53 AM
had a quick look at the paperwork yesterday, will check again but first glance didnt mention or have a field for model year.
j

Look for that VIN -- should be on the dashboard area near the windshield. Left side in the U.S -- maybe right side in Australia?

Do you have an "owner's card" -- in Pennsylvania the VIN is on our Owner's card?

Do you have financing documents from a bank or something -- generally the VIN is on the documents?

pipo
05-24-2005, 09:00 AM
The way I see it, there are several different issues:

1. Did the dealer explicitly agree to sell you a 2005, in writing or verbally? If not, and you were comparison shopping a 2004 demo, and their "mistake" was limited to suggesting that there were no changes between the model years, they may at most owe you a couple of freebie retrofits and sincere apologies, but not a new 2005. If you were comparison shopping a 2005 demo, and they knew it and sold you a 2004 without informing you, I view that as a fraudulent transaction, and the fact that the model year isn't noted on the purchase documents as evidence of their cover-up.

2. Did you receive a 2005 or a 2004? I suspect I know the answer, but the VIN will confirm. If you got a 2005, start the celebration cuz you got a great deal. If not, it still sounds like you made out very well from a pricing standpoint, but that's an issue you should research.

3. In the meantime, enjoy your X3. One way or another, you will be driving an X3 for the forseeable future (whether a 2005 or a 2004), and that by itself is reason enough to be happy! Good luck.

wingrove
05-25-2005, 01:14 PM
Ok its Aug 04 build so yes its the last month of the 04 MY. Dealer is apologetic, werent aware of the subtleties. They cant do anything about the handles, well they can but basically BMW HQ puts disclaimers all over the brochures, they said I or they can take it up with them if i like and I could get a result but then your dealing with removal of door panel and possible inroduction of squeeks etc. Im not interested. Yes MP3 playback is an 04/05 thing and they offered to replace my head unit, but I said I wasnt that fussed as I wanted an Ice Link Plus. So theyve ordered me one AND will install it for me when it arrives and it if they cant get it to work theyll supply and fit a BMW iPod adapter instead ! they will also order and install the door sill chrome plates but to be honest I hadnt really noticed those. They have also assured me that thats the only updates in the 04/05 MY changeover which to be honest was my biggest concern. Funny thing is the VIN is exactly what I posted earlier,WBAPA92020WB33XXX its whats on the local compliance plate and on the BMW branded vin plate above the firewall wierd. no 4's or 5's in it.
Anyway Im happy and black interior handles is all I had to compromise to get the car i wanted at a great price and I love it!

Caesar
05-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Ok its Aug 04 build so yes its the last month of the 04 MY. Dealer is apologetic, werent aware of the subtleties. They cant do anything about the handles, well they can but basically BMW HQ puts disclaimers all over the brochures, they said I or they can take it up with them if i like and I could get a result but then your dealing with removal of door panel and possible inroduction of squeeks etc. Im not interested. Yes MP3 playback is an 04/05 thing and they offered to replace my head unit, but I said I wasnt that fussed as I wanted an Ice Link Plus. So theyve ordered me one AND will install it for me when it arrives and it if they cant get it to work theyll supply and fit a BMW iPod adapter instead ! they will also order and install the door sill chrome plates but to be honest I hadnt really noticed those. They have also assured me that thats the only updates in the 04/05 MY changeover which to be honest was my biggest concern. Funny thing is the VIN is exactly what I posted earlier,WBAPA92020WB33XXX its whats on the local compliance plate and on the BMW branded vin plate above the firewall wierd. no 4's or 5's in it.
Anyway Im happy and black interior handles is all I had to compromise to get the car i wanted at a great price and I love it!

There were some other interior minor changes in colors of dash and arm rest and things like that on the '05. Additionally, supposedly they corrected seals on doors and/or pano roof, for leaks and/or noise.

If it were me, I would demand they take it back and give me an '05. Cause you will have less value on resale.

Plus that VIN can't be right:

CARFAX Check Results

The Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) you entered, WBAPA92020WB33XXX, is invalid. Please check the number for accuracy and try again below.

Australia has a unique VIN data dot marker (invisible to the naked eye). You should see if you local police will confirm your VIN by looking at the "data dots" sprayed on the car.

http://www.ica.com.au/corpaffairs/mediareleases.nsf/0/0337a7a5551e8e414a256a95000a4037?OpenDocument

The new system was supposed to cover all BMWs as of 2002:

http://www.ica.com.au/corpaffairs/mediareleases.nsf/0/0337a7a5551e8e414a256a95000a4037?OpenDocument

JG
05-25-2005, 01:44 PM
WBAPA92020WB33XXX its whats on the local compliance plate and on the BMW branded vin plate above the firewall wierd. no 4's or 5's in it.


There still seems to be something wrong with that VIN. It is an international standard and I believe there is no choice for the manufacturer - but to locate the year number in the correct location in the sequence. Also from all I have read the XXX part is supposed to be a number. Maybe they do something different in Aussie - but I don't think so since the VIN are all factory applied.

It's almost like a partial VIN that might be used for a pre-production samples or something odd like that. :dunno:

Given that they sold you an 04, when given the time you ordered should have been an 05, I would investigate this further.

There were a good number of changes from 04 to 05. I also saw - and someone posted somewhere on this list a couple of pages of 'minor problem fixes' including some mentioned here by others - seals, computer and shock settings etc.

Also your re-sale value (if you purchased) will be a year less than an 05 - How much that makes up for the deal you got - I don't know.

climrgrl
05-25-2005, 02:44 PM
Here are some part numbers for door handles, I think perlglanzchrom probably means chrome.

DOOR HANDLE, INSIDE LEFT PERLGLANZCHROM 1 09/2004 51413415579
DOOR HANDLE INNER RIGHT PERLGLANZCHROM 1 09/2004 51413415580

The "shiefergrau" ones are $14 USD, so the chrome ones shouldn't be too much more than that. Do what you want, but I don't think it would be too much trouble for the dealer to replace them. They might not even have to take the entire door panel off -- possibly only the plastic piece around the handle (which comes off with a screw). I'm not sure about that, though.

pipo
05-25-2005, 02:55 PM
I have an August 2004 built X3, and I believe the early 2004 production kinks had been ironed out by then (e.g., creaky door seals; idiosyncratic moonroof). Personally, I prefer the interior touches of the 2004 to the 2005, but of course, I'm biased. Also, BMW softened the base suspension for 2005 (not sure about the Sports suspension).

It sounds like you're thrilled with your X3 and relatively pleased with your dealer's response. Happy motoring!

mvandenbos
05-25-2005, 08:09 PM
Don't worry too much about the VIN number issue. My car seems to lack the 4 which it 'should' have and it's an aussie build too.