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135 vs EVO

19K views 158 replies 27 participants last post by  ProRail 
#1 ·
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison

Motortrend did a bit of a comparision and for anyone still wondering how good of a track car the 135 is take a look.

The answer? Not good. 10 seconds on a little over a 2 mile course is embarrasing. Not that the 135 is slow but the EVO is otherworldly.

The one thing i also don't agree with is who they compare to the 135. Car magazine are comparing base prices but nearly every real world car is about 3-5k cheaper than a similarly equipped 135. I think lots of people will cross shop the G37 vs the 135 since they are very close in price and power yet Motortrend dismissed that comparison.

anyway, it is an interesting read and the BMW bias is apparent since they chose the slower, 8k more expensive car.
 
#2 · (Edited)
First of all, Motortrend is nothing but a bunch of tools. Second, I wouldn't expect a car that is made as a road car to perform well at the track. That's what ///M cars are for. The EVO is more of a track car that can be driven on the road. The 135i is more of a road car that can be driven on the track. They are both great cars that appeal to pretty wide variety of people. If money were a factor, I'd probably get the EVO. If it wasn't my money, I'd get a 335i coupe, just because it has that "it" factor.
 
#3 ·
Laps times don't necessarily equal good track car. A good track car should be involving, challenging but not punishing, and give you a chance to develop your skills.

A car like the EVO is going to drive itself, which is not what many people want in a track car.

I dunno where the 135i fits in this equation, I'm just making the point.
 
#4 ·
Laps times don't necessarily equal good track car. A good track car should be involving, challenging but not punishing, and give you a chance to develop your skills.

A car like the EVO is going to drive itself, which is not what many people want in a track car.

I dunno where the 135i fits in this equation, I'm just making the point.
By that rational the best track car would a 1992 Cavalier with two busted shocks and a flat tire. That would definitely be challenging!!

The EVO won't "drive itself" but all of the technology will help prevent you from putting it into a wall prematurely. The powerful but less advanced 135 with an open diff can more easily get out of hand and end up wrecked or damaged.

At the end of the tracking day do you want to pass people or be passed? How can anyone make a logical arguement that the 135 is a better track car?? Better car? Perhaps. Better track weapon? Not even close.

Though if track cars are your thing then BMW is the wrong place to look and has been since the debut of the E46 M3. Further from sport and closer to luxury with every model. Look at the E9X 3 series!!
 
#5 ·
#7 ·
They may have had a typo on the version I read. It mentioned a 10 second differential in the article that i read this morning.

While 10 seconds is embarrasing the 3.42 seconds is still a very very big gap of about 300 feet at an average of 60 miles per hour. Every 50 laps the EVO is going to lap you. Even in a 10 lap race you are going to be nearly a half MILE behind the EVO. How is that competitive??
Ask Hamilton, the Ferraris lapped him at Bahrain quicker than that, in a very competitive car. Remove the run flats from the 135i and I bet it's not a big difference, if any. If all you want at the roughly $40k price point is lap times, both cars will be punished by a stock C6 Corvette, which is available after discounts for about the same price as a normally optioned 135i, so just buy one of those.
 
#6 ·
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_bmw_135_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison

The answer? Not good. 10 seconds on a little over a 2 mile course is embarrasing. Not that the 135 is slow but the EVO is otherworldly.

QUOTE]

:dunno:

The article says 3.42 seconds, on page 3 and on the track diagram, on a 2.75 mile track. The last page with the chart has a typo on it.
They may have had a typo on the version I read. It mentioned a 10 second differential in the article that i read this morning.

While 10 seconds is embarrasing the 3.42 seconds is still a very very big gap of about 300 feet at an average of 60 miles per hour. Every 50 laps the EVO is going to lap you. Even in a 10 lap race you are going to be nearly a half MILE behind the EVO. How is that competitive??
 
#9 ·
As a current Evo owner, I would have to agree with "Superstock"s comment. While I have yet to drive the new Evo, my 05 is a 3156 lb track terror that has trounced countless decked out dedicated track cars, I'm talking ferrari challenge, Z0-6's, etc,etc. My friends track Evo (gutted down to 2600 lbs. w/ full cage, KW full race suspension, Alcon 6 piston frnt brakes & 315/40/18's on all four corners) can pas a radical in the corners on Homestead Raceway, there hasn't been a car on the track yet that could out perform it. So saying that the Evo isn't a track car is way off. In addition, the car doesn't "drive itself", it just allows you to start having fun much sooner, as it is very easy to figure out.
I'm so impressed with my wifes 335i sedan that I'm looking at selling my Evo (investing that money)& getting a 135 so I can have a DD & a mild track car. I figure it ought to be a blast with a nice set of wheels & tires, chip, exhaust & intake, maybe a set of H&R springs. But of course I'll have to test drive one 1st!
BTW,
My friend was talking with a guy up in SC who test drives for BMW on thier tracks, he said that he turned in faster lap times with the stock 135 than the stock M-3 and that it was more fun too.
 
#13 · (Edited)
So did i and they are great. The new ones are infinitely better than the earlier NA and NB models built up to 2005. And they make much better track cars than the 135. They are 900lbs lighter!!! Also cheap to buy, fix, insure and modify. The BMW is cheap to do nothing.

They are still best as secondary cars though. I have track car and DD car. I have found that if you try to do both with one car you are going to end up with unacceptable sacrifices in both. You can't have a true jack of all trades. And that is my point about why the 135 is an overly expensive toy.

It isn't good on the track because of weight and open differential and it isn't good on the street because of its size constraints. BMW wanted to make a more "track-ready" car than the 335 but since they borrowed so extensively the weight is still way too high and they didn't truly improve on the handling. They spent the money on marketting instead of the car.

If I was looking for a DD driver i would get the 328 or 335. If I was looking for a BMW track car I would get an older E36 M3 coupe for around 14k and gut it. It would be much better on the track than a DD 135 and I wouldn't worry obsessively about putting it into the wall because I still have my DD.
 
#12 ·
Motor Trend gave the 135i the First place win in this compo. Even though the EVO did better on the track.

The point is that with stiff springs and larger sways the track times can be greatly improved, however with the loss of the DD benefits of the 135i. Simply put the EVO comes with a more track ready setup than the 135i does, but who tracks their cars every day? Sorry but 5 to 10 track days a year do not justify the rough ride of a dedicated track car for a DD.

I setup my 05 Subaru STI as a track car, but still drove as a DD. When I sold the car I removed all of my mods, springs, HUGE sways ect. and was very pleasantly surprised how much better the car felt in stock setup as a daily driver. The main reason I sold my STI was because of the back busting ride every day, which I made much worse by moding the car for the track. Even though I only drove about 10 times a year on the track.

I will never do this again. If I choose to track a car again it will be a dedicated track car only, never a DD setup for the track. IMHO BMW***8217;s are still the best cars at both aspects, road and track, DD.

Red
 
#15 · (Edited)
Motortrend did a bit of a comparision and for anyone still wondering how good of a track car the 135 is take a look.

The answer? Not good. 10 seconds on a little over a 2 mile course is embarrasing. Not that the 135 is slow but the EVO is otherworldly.
Chris it is definitely a typo. Did you see page 3 and the tech sheet?

Tech Sheet:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...35_mitsubishi_evo_mr_comparison/photo_12.html

135i - 156.34 3.42 sec back

Evo X - 152.92

Damn good for a car that is not soley designed around performance, that is wearing runflats, doesn't have a sophisticated AWD system.

For a better comparison.

M3 - 154.2

135i only 2.14 seconds back of the new M3, that cost almost twice as much.

Side note: You seem to be interested in tracking cars. You might want to follow this story.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6629
 
#19 ·
For track purposes, you just can't discount that the EVO comes stock with three limited slip diffs, front, center and rear, with a computer controlling output to all three very quickly. The 135i, well it comes with zero. BMW's aren't good track cars, at least when compared to EVO's, STi's, Porsche's and Vette's, which all come significantly better prepared for track use. They are more comfortable and better suited for daily driver duty and occassional track day use though.
 
#21 ·
For shear driving excitement, Evo owns any BMW, period! Back in the day of a mild re-flash and a few supporting mods, I would eat E-46 M-3's like they were stale toast, I would play with them and then watch them almost spin out (one poor arrogant soul just couldn't get it in his thick head and ended up spinning off the track and kissing the tires @ Moroso Motor Speedway), so I wouldn't bother comparing them, as they're two totally different vehicles. Ones designed with beauty, refinement & pleasure, the other is aggressive road hugging, track dominating excitement, take your pick!
 
#27 · (Edited)
I'm posting here because I joined after buying a 335 sedan, which I thoroughly love and I thought I would give a different perspective based upon my real world experience. I'm not trashing BMW's in any way, just stating that they are two totally different cars with different end use. The BMW 135 is "the ultimate driving machine", whereas the Evo is the car snobs worst nightmare and the poor mans track equalizer.
BTW, I wasn't intending to trash the Miata, I just didn't like mine as a DD & track car. I hope I didn't offend anyone with any of my comments, just a different perspective.
 
#30 ·
The BMW 135 is "the ultimate driving machine", whereas the Evo is the car snobs worst nightmare and the poor mans track equalizer.
The new EVO is almost $40k though, so it's not a poor man's car. I do like it, but that's some serious money.
 
#33 ·
Ah ok, so blamo has a 335...

Between his post and his listed car as an evo, I wasnt sure if he was just a evo driver who registered to bash on BMWs.

Sorry 'bout the harsh post blamo. It sounded worse than I meant it.

Probably right anyway. None of the new BMWs are getting top marks we all think BMW should have been shooting for. I would have been surprised to see the 135 beat an Evo.
 
#41 ·
In the past, the MR was slower than the standad Evo going around the track, as the suspension was softer than the standard version. When I bought my 05, I paid $29500 OTD and then Mitsu gave me 2K in free gas, that dropped me down to $27500, I've since put about 10-12000 into the car, parts & labor, 3 sets of tires & wheels(2 track, 1 street), so my total cost is about 37-39K car included. It's a great car for what it is, but it will never be in the same league as the BMW, it's just not a valid comparison, in my opinion as someone who owns both cars.
 
#42 ·
You are right about the old car but the new EVO is leagues above the 05. It feels much more solid and well built without the constant reminders that you are in an 15k economy car with a 15k engine. The styling is much more grown up though I still don't like the monster rear wing.

I don't think people will cross shop a EVO vs. 335 but it is definitely in the same category as the 135. They are both pocket rockets and are approximately the same price with the same options. One is 4 door AWD and one is 2 door with 1 wheel drive. Do you want the perceived BMW status or the additional capabilites of AWD and 4 doors? In daily driving they are really close in acceleration and feel. (I know the BMW has boost at 1500 rpms vs 3000 rpms but the cars are geared entirely different. They feel very similar.)

The truth is that the success of both of these cars will come down to the success of their cheaper siblings. Both will sell in very small quantities and their continued existence depends on how many Lancers and 128s are actually sold and if they can make money from them.
 
#43 ·
I just test drove the new Evo, I thought maybe I might like it, boy was I disappointed! No way in the world I would pay 34-35K for that slug! The 335 sedan would spank it off the line, stock for stock! The handling was somewhat numb, although I really couldn't give it my usual flogging, so maybe that's not a fair comparison (I recently took my BMW salesman for a ride in my 05 Evo and my wife says I scared the crap out of him based on the look on his face when we got back). To get the new Evo up to my Evo would take quite a bit of work, although I'm sure that once the power is brought up on line the suspension would likely exhibit stellar performance if what I***8217;ve heard is true. As a final conclusion, I would say the new Evo looks very nice, especially the new Areo kit that you can order, but I couldn***8217;t justify the steep climb over the Evo VIII or IX.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Superstock, I just re-read your comment about the new Evo being "leagues above the 05" and I'm thinking to myself, wow, how could you have come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just can't see how you could***8217;ve arrived at that conclusion. Keep in mind that it seems the majority of evo owners modify their cars, so you***8217;re not likely to have a stock to stock comparison. I***8217;m not sure that this new Evo will be as ***8220;Add on friendly***8221; as its predecessors and therefore may not be able to live up to the reputation of the original model as they responded extremely well to basic ***8220;bolt ons***8221;. Once you***8217;ve driven or rode in a properly set up & tuned 05 Evo VIII or a IX, then you will know what I***8217;m talking about, as they are able to do things on the road that few other cars can come close to. When I was driving it, I couldn***8217;t help but thinking, ***8220;this thing feels much slower than the time I took my 05 out for a test drive, they want HOW much for this thing?!***8221; From the initial test drive, I wasn***8217;t impressed, but It might be a different story on the track. One other note: if you***8217;re in a stock 135 or 335, in the DS mode and you nail it from a stoplight with the stock 08 Evo, you should definitely pull ahead substantially. JMO
 
#48 ·
Superstock, I just re-read your comment about the new Evo being "leagues above the 05" and I'm thinking to myself, wow, how could you have come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just can't see how you could've arrived at that conclusion. Keep in mind that it seems the majority of evo owners modify their cars, so you're not likely to have a stock to stock comparison. I'm not sure that this new Evo will be as "Add on friendly" as its predecessors and therefore may not be able to live up to the reputation of the original model as they responded extremely well to basic "bolt ons". Once you've driven or rode in a properly set up & tuned 05 Evo VIII or a IX, then you will know what I'm talking about, as they are able to do things on the road that few other cars can come close to. When I was driving it, I couldn't help but thinking, "this thing feels much slower than the time I took my 05 out for a test drive, they want HOW much for this thing?!" From the initial test drive, I wasn't impressed, but It might be a different story on the track. One other note: if you're in a stock 135 or 335, in the DS mode and you nail it from a stoplight with the stock 08 Evo, you should definitely pull ahead substantially. JMO
Not sure what Superstock was talking about but i have to agree that Stock to stock the new EVO is better than the old EVO IX. I have never driven a highly modified EVO like it sounds yours is but I have autox a friend's stock IX. The power delivery in the EVO has been smoothed out and i can imagine that is going to piss off quite a few turbo lovers. Instead of that nothing.....BANG! power deliver it is much more linear feeling. It is no doubt slower FEELING, but on a track i am confident that the progressive power will be much more controllable. It also looks and feels better than the incredibly cheap looking EVO IX interior.

I am sure EVO was going for a more upscale market and perhaps even people who had the money to afford their car with the new EVO X. Mitsubishi went thru a rough patch in the late 90s due to so many owners defaulting on their loans. They agressively went after the young and tuner market to their eventual dismay. It is like selling things to hippies; eventually you realize you can't make money because THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY.

You can't evaluate a car like the EVO from a dealer test drive; the straightline pull isn't as aggressive as it used to be. (This is WHY I bought the 335, I figured any car with that kind of straightline pull would be fun. Too bad it is such a heavy highway cruiser.) The handling abilites are what sells the EVO and they can't be tested on public roads safetly. If I was looking into getting that car then I would wait for one to show up at a track day or autox and beg or pay for a ride/drive in an environment where you can see what the car is capable of.
 
#50 ·
+1 on the telescoping steering wheel, i couldn't get comfortable because my knee hit the wheel everytime i came off the clutch.

But the car is more than just numbers. It is the total feel of the vehicle. The EVO X feels more complete and more solid than the IX. Even if the IX is capable of going around a particular track .53 seconds faster (a VERY small difference) that doesn't mean it is a better car.

The EVO X is more grown up, for better or worse. It no longer has the furious feel and the rental car interior; it is two steps up.
 
#51 ·
The EVO XIII/IX felt like Touring Cars to me - and either you wanted a race car feel or you didn't. Many who wanted one couldn't afford it, that was the problem.

I'm not sure what the EVO X is though - those who want a race car for the road may feel it's too soft and refined, while those who want a bargain M5 may feel it's too cheap and unrefined.
 
#53 ·
That's the problem with Mitsubishi's EVO X - it's the performance of an M5, at less than half the cost - that should sell, right?

But who's the target audience? Not M5 buyers, they won't touch it. Ricers probably can't afford $35k, and if they could, the EVO is probably too upmarket in feel. Track junkies probably don't want a 3600 lb car.

Lots of people like me will say "yeah, the EVO is cool," but we won't buy it. I wonder who's going to actually buy it?
 
#59 ·
Alright, allow me to try to clarify a few points I was making. I stated very clearly, or at least I thought I did, that I couldn***8217;t get a real feel for the Evo X handling potential in a test drive, and that maybe on the track its true potential could be realized. Although I have no hard evidence, my memory and my BDM (Butt Dyno Meter) indicated that the Evo X was slower in it***8217;s off the line and midrange acceleration than my stock 05. The fact that the 08 has traction control that was turned on initially may have contributed to the overall slouch sensation (why they have that on an Evo I don***8217;t know). To the best of my knowledge, Auto cross is a short course that is set up primarily with cones and does not involve multiple cars on the course at the same time, but is primarily a race against the clock, whereas road course racing is a much more challenging and stressful event on both the driver & car. I***8217;ve never auto crossed, so I cannot speak from experience, but I have an extensive amount of road course racing experience and have successfully completed the Dragon at high speeds with great success numerous times. All my experience has been based on actually owning and driving my own car, not barrowing someone else***8217;s car, as the Evo drives totally different than a RWD vehicle, it would take you a day or two to realize the cars full driving potential, IMO. I hope this helps.
 
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