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-   -   BMW 325i vs Audi 2.0T Quattro (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100731)

saury316 06-08-2005 09:25 AM

BMW 325i vs Audi 2.0T Quattro
 
Hey guys....
I just found this forum online, and am eager to ask questions and act like a complete newb for a bit....
So I am planning to get a car this week or the next, and am trying to decide between the 2006 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro and the 2006 BMW 325i.
I live in Pittsburgh, PA, and we get our share of snow and IMHO have terrible roads (potholed, and slopes up and down).

First question:- I know this is a BMW forum and all, but simply put, if I stick with the all-season tires on both cars, would anyone have local/regional experience of driving a RWD/AWD car in the winter? Which would you recommend? (switiching to snows is not an option, as I do not have a place to store the tires).

Second:- My aim is to get either car for as close to, preferebly less tha, $35000.
I have been offered $36,794 for a 2006 BMW 325i with the following options:-
Jet Black
Automatic
Premium Package
Cold Package
Park Distance Control
iDrive Navigation

for the audi it is as follows:-
New Audi A4 2.0T Quattro Tiptronic
WPX Premium Package
PND Audio Navigation Plus
PX3 Lighting Package
PSR Audio Package (Sirius) or (XM) <- I don't really care right now as
to which one...
PRV 17" Alloy Wheels with All Season Tires
4X4 Rear Side Airbags
8X1 Headlight Washer
Parktronic Sensors
Bluetooth Connectivity

Right now I am being quoted near 38000 but I havent negotiated the price like I have done with the BMW yet.

So my question was, specifically for the BMW, are there any options that you think I should get rid off? Is leatherette really THAT good that its beeen mistaken for leather??
Also, do you feel I am being quoted a good price for the BMW?
Finally, is it really a wise decision to go with the BMW??

Jalli 06-08-2005 09:35 AM

Stick with the BMW and stick with leather. You seem to have made good choices as far as packages go based on where you live. Don't get me wrong, the Audi is nice, but it really isn't in the same league as the BMW. Drive both cars and figure out which one youuu like better.

Rob325_in_AZ 06-08-2005 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
Hey guys....

Right now I am being quoted near 38000 but I havent negotiated the price like I have done with the BMW yet.

Just curious... You were able to negotiate down the BMW? I kinda figured they'd still be mostly going for MSRP at this point.

As to your question, I agree you should drive both. I have driven neither of the 2006 offerings, but have driven both of their predecessors (Audi 1.8 T with CVT and of course my own e46 325i manual RWD). If the comparison is similar, BMW wins hands-down from a performance standpoint.

They both look to be nice cars though, you couldn't go too far wrong either way. :)

egtlover74 06-08-2005 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob325_in_AZ
Just curious... You were able to negotiate down the BMW? I kinda figured they'd still be mostly going for MSRP at this point.

As to your question, I agree you should drive both. I have driven neither of the 2006 offerings, but have driven both of their predecessors (Audi 1.8 T with CVT and of course my own e46 325i manual RWD). If the comparison is similar, BMW wins hands-down from a performance standpoint.

They both look to be nice cars though, you couldn't go too far wrong either way. :)

You can buy e90 325i or 330i for about $1000~$1500 over invoice.
How do I know? I ordered my 325i for $1100 over invoice and my boss just bought 330i at $1000 over invoice.

pbm317 06-08-2005 09:55 AM

I was almost on the same boat, but driving the 3 and the Audi back to back, I realized how much more of a BMW guy I really am. :) The Audi might have a nice interior, but the 3 definitely was much more of "driver's car" I know the term is pretty worn out, but I think it's the simplest way to put it. Now I've only driven the 330, so maybe it's not apples, to apples.

As far as negotiation, you should be able to get pretty much down close to invoice on the A4, as that's what they've been throwing at me, optioned pretty much like you have except with the sport package and manual transmission.

Rob325_in_AZ 06-08-2005 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egtlover74
You can buy e90 325i or 330i for about $1000~$1500 over invoice.
How do I know? I ordered my 325i for $1100 over invoice and my boss just bought 330i at $1000 over invoice.

Really? Heck, that's as good as I did on my 2003 (and I had to go back and forth between three dealers for that).

Were these numbers for ED?

pbm317 06-08-2005 10:18 AM

Can you share dealer info?

brkf 06-08-2005 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob325_in_AZ
Really? Heck, that's as good as I did on my 2003 (and I had to go back and forth between three dealers for that).

Were these numbers for ED?

No, man. ED people are getting 1k over ED invoice, not dealer invoice.

If my dealer is down in the $400 range when I start looking into purchase maybe I'll avoid ED. Doubt it though...

saury316 06-08-2005 12:26 PM

Hi guys....thanks for all the replies.
I have scheduled test drives with a dealer for both cars. However, the thing is that none of the dealers around pittsburgh (and I am talking about a 25 mile radius) ahve either car with navigation and the transmission I want.
The only work around I have found so far is to test drive the 5 series with navigation for a feel on the iDrive and then test drive the 3 w/o navigation for a feel of the car. Is that a good idea??
FOr the Audi, the dealer has kindly contacted a clinet of his who both the A4 with navigation, and she is willing to give me a ride in it, and then I can acutally test drive the A$, again w/o navi.

Back to my question, are there any people with expereinces of driving their 3 (this or the E46) in the snow, or in the winter in the Pittsburgh area (even better)? How about the Audi?

Also, so I should go for the premium w/leather??

timmerweb 06-08-2005 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
Hey guys....
I just found this forum online, and am eager to ask questions and act like a complete newb for a bit....
So I am planning to get a car this week or the next, and am trying to decide between the 2006 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro and the 2006 BMW 325i.
I live in Pittsburgh, PA, and we get our share of snow and IMHO have terrible roads (potholed, and slopes up and down).

First question:- I know this is a BMW forum and all, but simply put, if I stick with the all-season tires on both cars, would anyone have local/regional experience of driving a RWD/AWD car in the winter? Which would you recommend? (switiching to snows is not an option, as I do not have a place to store the tires).

How is NOT getting snow tires an option? Both cars you're looking at are performance cars, which means you want well-performing tires, which means these tires will offer close to zero traction in snow (all-seasons will not get you good snow performance either, and you'll end up with mediocre summer performance). Driving an expensive car like an Audi or BMW in snow without snow tires there is just too great a risk that your day will end in tears. Do you really want to see your nice new piece of German engineering on the back of a tow-truck next snow storm?

Most places that sell tires also offer storage, sometimes even for free. Or find a friend with some extra garage space to store the tires for you. And remember you're prolonging the life of your summer tires this way, so the cost isn't that high.


-Tim

ed325i 06-08-2005 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
...Back to my question, are there any people with expereinces of driving their 3 (this or the E46) in the snow, or in the winter in the Pittsburgh area (even better)? How about the Audi?

Also, so I should go for the premium w/leather??

If you go with the Bimmer, I would recommend winter tires. I don't think 4 seasons will cut it. I would recommend winter tires for the A4 as well. Marketing aside, traction has less to do with drive configuration, than with the tires. Quattro definately, will not help with stopping!

Ed

jboo 06-08-2005 01:21 PM

Driving the 5 series will give you a good idea of how iDrive works, but the driving style will be a little different.

batmanwagon 06-08-2005 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed328Ci
If you go with the Bimmer, I would recommend winter tires. I don't think 4 seasons will cut it. I would recommend winter tires for the A4 as well. Marketing aside, traction has less to do with drive configuration, than with the tires. Quattro definately, will not help with stopping!

Ed

I agree entirely! A couple of years ago Tirerack tested FWD, RWD and AWD cars with all-season tires and snow tires. Their findings were that FWD and RWD cars with snow tires handily outperformed AWD cars with all-season tires in the snow, and that AWD cars with snow tires outperformed FWD and RWD with snow-tires in the snow. The latter is hardly revelatory, but what is is that the presence of snow tires was far more important for snow traction than AWD.

So, to echo other people's comments: go for snow tires if you live in a region that has a significant amount of snow.

saury316 06-08-2005 02:10 PM

Thanks guys....snow tires werent option simply because I have no place to store them. I will be parking most likely on the street or in a lot/multi-story garage.
Also, if anyone is familiar with Pittsburgh, we have really huge swings in weather (it was 90 in mid-April and then snowed near the end of april. I have heard that using snow tires in warm weather is really bad as well....if any one familiar with Pittsburgh weather can tell me what they do that would be really great!

alpinewhite325i 06-08-2005 03:06 PM

Welcome fellow Pittsburgher!!

Your answer is very very simple.

Since snow tires are not an option, DO NOT GET THE BMW.

Without a set of dedicated snows, you will get nowhere fast.

saury316 06-08-2005 03:22 PM

Hi apline....***** thats quite disappointing...i was hoping the all-seasons would help a bit.
So I am assuming you got snow tires....for example this year...when did u put them on and take them off?

batmanwagon 06-08-2005 04:23 PM

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say "don't get it" - good all-season tires make it possible to drive on snow and in slushy conditions. While PA may have snow, how often do you have to drive on snow-covered roads? Can you wait for them to be plowed?

saury316 06-08-2005 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batmanwagon
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say "don't get it" - good all-season tires make it possible to drive on snow and in slushy conditions. While PA may have snow, how often do you have to drive on snow-covered roads? Can you wait for them to be plowed?

Most roads that I have seen in Pittsburgh are slush...there has been quite a bit of slush at times....
on a few rare occasions the road has yet to be plowed (as far as I have seen...)
what i wanted to know is that are the all-season run flats bmw gives good enough...as you suggest?

AG 06-08-2005 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
Thanks guys....snow tires werent option simply because I have no place to store them.

Talk to your dealer or sales advisor. Maybe they offer a tire storage service. My dealer up in MA did and it worked out nicely. Much cheaper than renting a small storage locker.

bmw325 06-08-2005 05:19 PM

If you're willing to wait a little bit, you could buy an AWD e90-- I think they'll be available in the fall. I think that's what I would do in your situation. I really like the smoothness and sound of BMW's inline 6 vs Audi's 4 cylinder. And, I prefer the balance that comes with a RWD-based platform. The Audi has most of its weight hung out front, and I just don't like the feel of that. I also think that hte e90 looks better than the Re-designed A4 w/ its awkward front grille.

CC 330i 06-08-2005 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
Hi guys....thanks for all the replies.
I have scheduled test drives with a dealer for both cars. However, the thing is that none of the dealers around pittsburgh (and I am talking about a 25 mile radius) ahve either car with navigation and the transmission I want.
The only work around I have found so far is to test drive the 5 series with navigation for a feel on the iDrive and then test drive the 3 w/o navigation for a feel of the car. Is that a good idea??
FOr the Audi, the dealer has kindly contacted a clinet of his who both the A4 with navigation, and she is willing to give me a ride in it, and then I can acutally test drive the A$, again w/o navi.

Back to my question, are there any people with expereinces of driving their 3 (this or the E46) in the snow, or in the winter in the Pittsburgh area (even better)? How about the Audi?

Also, so I should go for the premium w/leather??

Hey there,

My company is based in Uniontown, PA (near Pittsburgh) and I have extensive experience driving in that area. I would have to say that even though I bought a e90 330i over an Audi S4, part of the reason I did so was because I live in California. Since I drive mostly dry roads and it doesn't snow where I live, I opted for RWD and better gas mileage. (I was considering an S4 though, not an A4). The handling of the 325i is definitely better than the A4 (and probably the S4 too) ON DRY ROADS, but as you know things get icy in PA.

The person in this thread that said that BMW is more of a drivers car and is "not in the same league" as Audi has never driven their car (and then driven an Audi) in the snow! I think their attitude would quickly change if they did so. I have done both and I can tell you that AWD is a definite blessing in HILLY Pittsburgh. Certainly I would take an Audi A4 (QUATTRO) over my 330i in the Winter in PA. I wouldn't even take the 330i out of the garage unless I had winter tires all around, and you said that is not an option. The A4Q could mean the difference between having to put on chains or not to get up a driveway or hill, and in my book, that qualifies the Audi as being in A LEAGUE ALL OF ITS OWN. If you have ever had to put on and take off tire chains 3 times in one day just to get to work and back, you would not even think twice about buying the Audi.

My recomendation would be this, if you must have a brand new car:

Get the A4 Quattro, no leather, no navigation. Get cold weather package and the upgraded stereo. Also get MANUAL TRANSMISSION if you can. Nothing else. I'll bet that this combo will price out well below the BMW 325 (comes to about $32,000 list price actually), and you will get some standard features that the BMW doesn't have, like an alarm, folding rear seat, heated headlight washers, AWD, etc. The new 2.0T engine is really really good. It's not as good as the 325/330i engine, but it's very very good.

I used to think that leather was really important, but I actually really like the leatherette in my BMW. I still can't believe a car that cost that much doesn't have leather, but I don't really miss leather. Most people think it is leather anyway, and $1500 is $1500. I can only spend the money once, and I am spending it on the tires that I am going to wear out in 10,000 miles! :p . The car still handles the same with leatherette, in fact the seats are grippier! The leather in the Audi costs about $2000, so figure about $34,000 list price with leather for the A4). I am not really familiar with the cloth interior in the Audi because all the S4s I drove had only leather.

I can understand that you may want Automatic, but I drove the Steptronic in the new 330i and I had a VW Passat with Tiptronic, and there is no nice way to say it except that they both suck. I never ended up using the "manual" shift feature because it was so slow to switch gears. The Audi DSG tranny in the A3 is a whole different ball game, so if the A4 came with that, (and it probably will soon) then it would be a no brainer to get the A4 with DSG. DSG A3s are actually QUICKER than the manual transmission A3s. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that a MT A4 might be quicker to 60 mph than a 325i with Automatic. (I could be wrong, but I will say that the Manual would be more fun to drive).

One cool thing about the 325/330i is the hill hold brake feature which I am loving. You might benefit from this in Pittsburgh. It works seamlessly, and I almost wish I had to take off from more hills so I could take advantage of how cool it is. Make sure your test drive includes stopping on a hill with a Manual Transmission 325. Depending on how you agree with my RWD versus AWD argument, you may choose to opt for the 325 if you drive hilly areas a lot. It makes having a manual transmission car in the hills almost as easy to drive as an Automatic.

If you can wait for it to come out, the 325ix might be a really good choice for you too.

CC 330i 06-08-2005 05:46 PM

Oh, by the way, I paid about $1200 more for my 330i with sport package than you are being quoted for your loaded 325i. I guess you can figure that I don't think that $37,000 quoted for the 325 is a very good deal based on what I think is important in a car. Options are the killer!

alpinewhite325i 06-08-2005 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saury316
Hi apline....***** thats quite disappointing...i was hoping the all-seasons would help a bit.
So I am assuming you got snow tires....for example this year...when did u put them on and take them off?

I know it's not the answer you wanted, but it's the honest truth.

I put mine on right around Thanksgiving and took them off the first weekend of March.

I think we had one day after that where there was an inch or two of snow. I took my wifes Sequoia and left the Bimmer in the garage.

Good luck in your decision!!

alpinewhite325i 06-08-2005 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batmanwagon
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say "don't get it" - good all-season tires make it possible to drive on snow and in slushy conditions. While PA may have snow, how often do you have to drive on snow-covered roads? Can you wait for them to be plowed?

While we have had fairly mild winters the last two years, the potential is there for copious amounts of snow. When that happens, you will go NOWHERE with allseasons.

saury316 06-08-2005 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpinewhite325i
While we have had fairly mild winters the last two years, the potential is there for copious amounts of snow. When that happens, you will go NOWHERE with allseasons.

Being a Pittsburgher....just out of curiosity...do you know anywhere in Pittsburgh where I could store teh tires...really cheaply?
Becasue as has been said...I just find the interior/exterior of the BMW a lot better than the Audi.
The only thing actually holding me to the Audi is the AWD and the fact its slightly cheaper. Waiting for the 2006 BMW 325xi is just going to be a while, casue I have checked with dealers and they expect Sept to OCtober....also I think with the 325 already this pricy...the x will simply be out of my budget.
I am really looking forward to the test drives this Saturday....unfortunately there is no snow...lol...but there is predictions of rain....not the same by far...but better than a dry sunny day ...


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