What will used e46 prices do when e90's come out?
 

Will the value drop more than usual?

climb!

The price on the E46 Sedans dropped when the E90 came out. The prices on E39 M5's have been declining since the E60 M5 was released. If the price on the E46 coupes drop when the E92's come out (I bet they will), then it's safe to assume the price on the E46 M3 will drop when the E92 M3 arrives. I'm watching this as well. I'm planning to sell my STI in 2 years or so and get an E92 M3, however if the E92 M3 isn't worth the price tag to me for some reason, then I will keep the STI and get an 04 E46 M3 to go with it, so I'm betting that E46 M3 resale values will be very attractive when the E92 335 comes out and especially so when the E92 M3 is released.

Probably not...if used E36 M3 pricing is any indication.

Usual? Define "usual". Old models always drop a lot when the new model comes out. E36 M3 prices dropped a lot when the E46 came out. E39 M5s have dropped ALOT recently (you can pick them up fo the same or not much more then a similar year and mileage E46 M3).

Ummm no...at least not in the Bay Area.

surely drop!
Thats why Im doing my homework now, while I wait to see how the e90/m3 looks and prices are, then I'll catch me one of these e46/M3 falling stars!

With the exception of true classic/vintage cars, All BMW's go down in value. More people desire new over old.

It's not so much the new M3 that will hurt the values of E46 M3's as the new M3's are going to be a lot more expensive and the old ones will look reasonable for those looking to save some money.

The new 335 (twin turbo'd 3.0 liter motor) is what is going to compound the issue of declining values of the current M3's.

Estimated base price of the 335 is going to be 42 to 45K. This car ought to be as fast as an E46 M3 (or pretty damn close). Add a Dinan chip (which I'm sure in already in the works) to kick the boost on the turbos (remember there are two of them) and the 335 is going to be a rocketship.

So, if your in the market to sell an E46 M3, I'd say sell it now. If your in the market to buy one, wait a couple of months if can until the E90 335 and new M3 come out.

Combined these two models are going to kill the used E46 M3 market segment. The hardest hit will be those with E46 Coupes IMHO.

Don't bet on too much of a drop. Look at what happened when Porsche made a drastic change with the 993 to the 996! Huge in value retention and actually went up. Having said this, the S54 motor is one of the best of all time. The E46 M3 is arguably one of the finest in design that BMW has ever produced. The E90 (or 92) ///M is slated to be a V8. If any indication on the present design of the E90 is what the ///M3 will look like, I think it'll be one of those things that bodes well for the E46 ///M3. I guess at the end of the day it's a wait and see, but quite frankly I don't like the E90 design at all. I've driven a sedan for several days as a loaner and it will take time for me to get used to that design. I'm keeping my ///M3 'Vert for a while!

Hmm, so now. Do i wait or not. Bleh....

You'll have quite a bit of time to wait then since it'll be mid-next year before they're available. As it stands for me, if I do want one I'm waiting 'til at least '08 and maybe '09 to get one to make sure it's sorted out and the price levels out of bit. I might even get a CPO if I like it, but no way first year -- they'll go for a premium for sure. On the other hand if it's not to my liking, then in '08 I'll go back to Porsche and get a CPO 997S. Good luck.

If we all get together and refuse to sell our E46 M3's for anything less than $70K, the used price of the E46 M3 will soar. Then, like the dealers, we add another $5K "additional private party markup". Finally when dealers see how much the E46 M3's are selling for, they'll take your used M3 in for trade towards the new E90 M3 and give you at least $10K back just for making the trade.

We'll all be able to get a new E90 M3 and $10K in cash, just for trading in our cars....



....or not....he he

Used E46 M3s
 

Good plan, but I'll settle for $60k!

I can't believe this comparison came up. Not even close to the same thing. As a former owner of my fair share of 911's, the 996 series helped the 993's in many ways:

Water Cooled vs. Air Cooled.
996 did not match the performance of the 993. It became a neutral car rather than a drivers car.
996 had too high of production #'s
996's are made from inferior materials and became more of a mass produced assembly line car.

Porsche screwed up big. The 996 was an example of what not to do and Porsche corrected themselves with the 997. I'm sure BMW watched closely.

Back to the M3, A lot of E46 M3's were made and this never helps on price. While I can't find a total production run of E45 M3's, BMW made 10,000 E39 M5's for the US market. One can olny guess that 15 to 20K E46 M3's were made for the US. Right now, there are 1500+ E46 M3's for sale on Autotrader alone. Imagine how that number will increase when the new M3 comes out and people start trading in their E46's. Currently the average for sale price on autotrader is $46,000. I bet with the new M3 and 335 introduction, this drops to 39K or less.

I believe that with the V8, the price is going way up (I bet a base model will come in at 55K) and production will go way down. That's why they are introducing the 335. They need a car to fill that gap from the 330 to the M3. Additionally the 335 is going to be a tuners dream. Do a google on the # of companines that sell chips for turbo'd cars. I bet you'll see more tuners come into the BMW market because of the 335. In the end the 335 will match or exceed the performance of the E46 M3's. With that, one who is looking to buy will opt for a new 335 vs. a used M3 for the same price.

WHAT! :rofl: I Believe the comparison I made is valid and bang on. I'm glad you've owned your "fair share" of 911's and you're not the only one on the block. As I said, I've owned the cooled and the 996. You can't be serious about the performance you've stated!?! You are not IMO properly informed and you're incorrect. First, I am a BIG TIME FAN of the air-cooled version, BIG, but in no way whatsoever does the air-cooled even come close to the performance of the 996, NO WAY. Outside from the actual numbers, did you ever see a 993 in the RSR form go up against the 996 when they came out? I recall it very clearly in all of the major racing series from Speed GT, AMLS, Gand Am, Club Racing, etc., and the 993 was in no way a match for the 996 - not even close - from a handling perspective to the outright performance! Heck, the base 996 has 300 HP and it's handling characteristics had all the advances Porsche could throw at it. You don't have to take my word for it, just look at any issue since the introduction of the 996 in the Market Updates in Excellence Magazine (assuming you're familiar with this) and you'll see what Mr. Anderson has to say about your claim - NOT RIGHT! If you want to compare the 993 Turbo, it was/is fast for its day, but that baby with AWD weighs a lot and the 996 would eat it up on the track plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, when I had the 996 it felt more like a touring car stock than the 993 did, but IMO for you to make these claims tells me you've probably not owned a 996 or know much about their peformace (no disrespect intended).

With regard to my comparison, the 993 to the 996 was a major change and would be analogous to the S54 to the V8 for the BMW. Obviously they're both water-cooled, but the I6 to the V8 is a mjor change just the same, and the model change from E46 to E90 (or 92) is major. Production numbers aside, my comparison is based on shear difference in models and the impact that has on the former model (vis-a-vis 993 to 996 values).

CIAO.:thumbup:

Funny how your bringing up race cars to compare the two models. A 996 race car is not even close to the 996 they sell to the consumer. I know, I've sat in one and seen one taken completely apart including the engine. A 996 has 1/2 the technology the race cars have.

Additionaly, street car to street car (what you buy and drive), the 996 lost the core values that 911 owners loved. You said it yourself "it feels like a touring car". Your right I have not owned a 996. While I've test driven many and came close to buying a couple of times, I've always ended up with an air cooled Porsche. The 996's just doesn't do it for me and they don't most Porsche owners. That's why the market is flooded with 996's. Look on Ebay or autotrader, there are tons of them and they are cheap. A $70K 996 sells for 45K after 3 years. That's terrible.

Back to the M3, the new V8 does one thing good that we know of, MORE POWER. that's what everyone wants. Now if BMW takes away the balance of the M3 and softens the supspension, slaps an i-drive in the thing and add 1,000lbs of wt to the car, then yes, your M3 will hold it's value like a 993 porsche did. Because BMW would loose it's core values and it core customer and start attracting a new customer base like Porshce did.

However, BMW is not stupid. Every M3 has done nothing but get better and better, unlike Porsche who had great early cars, a crappy mid year, the unstoppable SC/Carrera years, the troubled 964 era, the great 993 era, the confused 996 era and now the remarkable 997.

My main point is the new M3 will most likely be awesome. Look what it has to contend against. The RS4, E55, 997, Z06 to name a few. The new 335 will be great too. Neither will help the values of the E46 M3.

Okay, I'll stay away from the "race car" comparison even though that's Porsche's development stage for what they sell. All I'm saying is that with a change in models as drastic as Porsche had with the 993 to 996, you may get the same with the I6 to V8. You say "BMW is not stupid", however, it's no secret that BMW took a major hit in sales when they introduced the new 5-series with it's granny-glasses headlights and general design. It hasn't/didn't go over well and they learned from it, somewhat. Given the new design of the E90 there are many who don't like the design flatout. I am one of them. I can tell you that if the new M looks anything like what I've seen in spyshots I won't be buying one. Now, I'm only one of millions I'm sure, but looking at the response on numerous forums I'm not alone. I don't think you can say the same thing when the 3-series went from the design of the E36 to the M46, and certainly the S54 engines is a world-class and top rated engine, perhaps best of all time - still at the top of it's class as old as it is. So, my analogy I think may be valid.

With respect to the air-cooled to water-cooled version, I can say that I owned one and I admit I love the air-cooled cars, in particular the 930, one of my all-time favorite cars ever. Nothing I've ever seen as sexy in a car. Having said that, I had a '78 911SC Euro. I had everything sorted out with an upgraded suspension, engine with oversized Mahle pistons, web cams, SSI, and a list to long and meaningless for my point. I loved the car but was ready to move on. That car, as raw as it was, was nothing at all compared to the performance of the 996 I had, not even close. I didn't just test drive it, I owned and raced it some as a PCA member. Head-to-head I think I'd lap my older SC as much as I loved it. Was the SC more fun to drive - yup! Did I like the sound of it better - yup! Did it look better - you bet! Was it easier to work on and maintain - yup! Did it handle and perform better - NO WAY. That's it.

OK, I'm done. The 993 vs. 996 comparo has now turned into a 911 SC vs 996 comparo. That's a 20 year spread vs. a one year spead. Of course the 996 will blow away an SC. It only has 180 HP and still had torsion bars.:rofl: Even bored out it couldn't have had more than 200 HP unless you changed the compression ratio too.

Anyway, I agree with you on the 5 and that is why I think the new M3 won't be a flop. It's biggest downfall will be price, just like the new M Coupes (now at around 53K:yikes: ). The S54 engine is great and I love mine every time I drive it.:D

I'm really interested in the new 335 when it gets here. That car will be the best bang for the buck IMO and really it will hurt sales of the 330 and the new M3.

Only time will tell.

OK, look I only brought up the "SC" because you went into the history of Porsche as it relates to the 996. A stock SC had 180, not mine (hence mods mentioned and then some). In fact I never had it dyno'd but it was in the upper 250 - 275 range but what was more impressive was it's torque. I raced a Boxster S (early model) and beat it. Suspension was worked too. It was a relational thing only because you compared the 996 to the air-cooled P-cars.

I'm glad you're so certain the new M won't be a flop as with the 5, but then you're the one who said BMW wasn't "stupid". In fact, many of the styling aspects of the new 3 are similar and I'm not a fan. I'm waiting to see what the new M3 will be like baring the V8 since I may get one a year or so after it's been released (I don't buy brand new). Depending on that I may get a 997S or the M3. Based on the styling so far of the new 3 it'll probably be the former, not the latter.

We can agree to disagree and I hope I haven't offended, but, I'm not convinced the E46 M3 is going to take a nose dive as with the E36 M3, although that's still a fine car. Peace.

Back the turnip truck up there buddy. Some will argue the M3 went downhill after the E30 M3. For joy of driving the E30 M3 is the best of the bunch. It doesn't have the most power, but power isn't everything.

Yes, I am biased. And yes, I am putting a Euro 3.2 in my E30 M3. Thank you for asking.

You are delusional or in denial if you think that statement is correct. The E60 is outselling the E39.

5 series sales in the US:
2000 39,703
2001 40,005
2002 40,842
2003 E39 35, 249 E60 11,535
2004 45,499 (E39 negligible)
2005 52,717
2006 14,099 (thru March 06)- extrapolate out that will put yearly sale at 56,396 for the year. That is getting to be 50% more volume than the BEST year for the E39.

Explain to me how the E60 has been a flop? It is the same story for the 7 series and the new 3 series. The new cars are flat out outselling the outgoing models. They are doing something right...might not please the enthusiasts, but they are doing what they are supposed to do- sell cars!

Underpowered for sure - figures you're putting in the 3.2