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-   -   04-06 Automatic Transmission problems (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273508)

jo-e90 03-27-2008 11:59 PM

04-06 Automatic Transmission problems
 
Post if you have had any issues with your transmission. thanks:)

I see that Rick in Prescott has never been able to get his fixed.

datawx 03-28-2008 12:17 AM

My Wife's X3. A 2005 has started doing some of the things mentioned in the 2007 AT problem posts.

Kicking down from 2000 RPM in light throttle driving the vehicle will start to surge, if you nail it it clears. Also it will hold in gear sometimes at 3000 RPM on flat ground for some time.

Is this all part of this greater AT issue? I see reference to 07's a lot, and the odd 06 but not 05's.

If you feel this is related what is my best course of resolution or as good as it gets fix? It's been to the dealer twice now and it feels some what better tonight but still on occasions will produce the egg shaped wheel feeling

Unfortunately our car is a US vehicle now living in Canada and we own it outright.

Do we know if the 05's had a modified GM A/T??? What were BMW thinking of??? GM parts in a BMW for cripes sake!

Ishniknork 03-28-2008 12:45 AM

Ready... Set... GO!
 
When I took delivery my X3 in July of '05 I did not notice any problems at all. Within the first 1,000 miles I had ONE episode accelerating from a stop trying to cross traffic while making a left-hand turn. I hit the gas and it started to go and then just seemed to die. It didn't die but I hit the brakes and waited for traffic to pass. I think it was the "2nd to 1st" downshift delay problem (what a lot of complainers like to call "hesitation") but it has NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN. I attribute it to the software's learning capability.

The only other problem I've had is the "holding 3rd gear too long after an uphill start". It was mostly happening in the first 10,000 miles. This too has all but disappeared. I think it has done it ONCE in the last YEAR and I now have about 22K on the clock. I have never had ANY updates or reprogramming done for the trans since day one and am perfectly happy with it's performance.

Something I think a LOT of people don't realize is that the software is designed to yeild the best gas mileage possible but will also adjust itself to suit an individuals unique driving style. That takes some time for it to adjust and every time a person has the software updated the process starts ALL OVER AGAIN!

The only real gripe I have with the trans is that it takes too long to apply a downshift when in manual mode. Makes me have to plan ahead about 3-5 seconds more than I would if I had a manual. It may not seem like much but I've driven manuals for over 20 years and can probably perform a downshift in 3/10s of a second.

datawx 03-28-2008 01:04 AM

I believe the learning process is not a protracted period of time. Say 600 to 1000 miles. My egg shaped wheel feeling only happens under low load kick downs never if I'm flooring the throttle. When i starts i can hold it there as long as i like or the road permits.

The dealer has over the last two days checked a bunch of things and replace the air filter and the main brain relay. It's better but still noticeable.

We just want it fixed and get back to beautiful purrrrrring motoring.

Ishniknork 03-28-2008 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datawx (Post 3128773)
I believe the learning process is not a protracted period of time. Say 600 to 1000 miles. My egg shaped wheel feeling only happens under low load kick downs never if I'm flooring the throttle. When i starts i can hold it there as long as i like or the road permits.

The dealer has over the last two days checked a bunch of things and replace the air filter and the main brain relay. It's better but still noticeable.

We just want it fixed and get back to beautiful purrrrrring motoring.

To my knowledge the "learning process" is continuous. How long have you had your '05 and how many miles are on it? Have you ever had the trans software updated? BMW does have a SIB for the "holding 3rd gear too long" thing for the 2004-5 models.

What do you mean by the "egg-shaped wheel" feeling? I suspect you're feeling the "2nd-1st-2nd" gear changes. The X3's auto trans is programmed to start in 2nd gear when in the drive mode to save gas. On an uphill start or just the right throttle percentage it will downshift to first until sufficient speed is attained at that particular throttle setting to shift to 2nd again. Many people perceive this to be hesitation.

noego 03-28-2008 06:07 AM

23k on our '06 and not one problem. could be luck, but i like the X3 and i believe it is exactly as a BMW should be in every measure.

AzNMpower32 03-28-2008 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datawx (Post 3128736)
Kicking down from 2000 RPM in light throttle driving the vehicle will start to surge, if you nail it it clears. Also it will hold in gear sometimes at 3000 RPM on flat ground for some time.

Do we know if the 05's had a modified GM A/T??? What were BMW thinking of??? GM parts in a BMW for cripes sake!

BMW does not make its own transmissions. BMW has used GM-sourced ATs for quite sometime, and they are no more reliable or problematic than other automatics made by ZF. The automatic on a 5-series is no more reliable than one in the X3. The X3 shares its AT with the E46 3-series.

Please explain the bolded part above.......I might be able to tell you why. Kickdown refers to pushing the throttle past the resistance point. I don't see the difference between kickdown and "nailing it" ? :dunno:

There was a SIB for '04-early '06 models where the 3rd or 4th gear will hold too long while going uphill. The fix is a simple software upgrade to the "hills program". I was one of the first to get the fix and it works fairly well now. I prefer the transmission to hold a bit too long, instead of not holding at all (like my mom's 325i). I live in a hilly area, and to me the gearbox works very well.

UncleJ 03-28-2008 08:24 AM

No problems at 28K miles in my '06 X3. The holding gear too long on hill was apparently fixed during my first BMW oil service, it was never a problem as I like to have it hold rather than hunt back and forth between 4th and 5th on hills. Everything works just fine now.

kjboyd 03-28-2008 08:25 AM

1 Attachment(s)
here is a bulletin that might help

datawx 03-28-2008 08:39 AM

Kicking down from 2000 RPM in light throttle driving the vehicle will start to surge, if you nail it it clears. Also it will hold in gear sometimes at 3000 RPM on flat ground for some time.

OK this will get in depth........rolling down the road at 2000 rpm at say 40 MPH and you come to a slight hill or just want to go a tiny bit faster so you ease on the gas and you get what i call a half kick down......the revs seem to do a slow kick down to take the RPM to 3000...if you keep easing on the gas very slowly so the engine is under load and you want it to pull just a little harder the engine feels like its miss firing. He egg shaped wheel feeling. I can hold this feeling right through to 4500/5000 RPM if i keep easing on the gas. Sometimes the feeling is quite violent. It will jerk me in the seat back wards and forwards! (no rude comments please) The feeling is like a miss fire of the engine or a pulsing/surging sensation.

Yesterday after picking the car up from the dealer i thought they had it fixed but this time i was passing another truck at 70-80 MPH and in that half kick down area of the tranni it started again. Now i can re-produce it at the 2000 - 3000 RPM again. The RPM needle will appear to pulse with the feeling.

I have though for a while now that this may be a tranni issue. It's almost as if the engine and tranni are having a battle as to where the shifts should take place......change now....no no hold on a second.....CHANGE NOW......NO NOT YET.

While this jerking is happening in my kinda half kick down phase.....if you floor the gas it will clear instantly and just pull hard as it should or kick own again and be fine.

Hope this make sense and you get my message.

datawx 03-28-2008 08:43 AM

KJ

No Bulletin in your post????

datawx 03-28-2008 08:45 AM

Also.......my holding in 3rd will happen on flat ground after coming out of a hilly section near the house. I can drive sometimes for at least half a mile before it shifts its self. A touch more gas and it will shift too.

PimoX3 03-28-2008 08:58 AM

Never experienced anything like that in my '06. Sure doesn't sound normal...

You may also want to do a quick search for a thread a while back (in the fall maybe?) that provided procedures to manually reset the adaptive transmission learning... it might have an impact on what you're feeling (who knows? :dunno:)

kjboyd 03-28-2008 09:38 AM

yes, the PDF should be there. I can see it anyway.

datawx 03-28-2008 09:50 AM

i see it now KJ Thanks. Also replied to your PM.

AzNMpower32 03-28-2008 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datawx (Post 3129223)
Kicking down from 2000 RPM in light throttle driving the vehicle will start to surge, if you nail it it clears. Also it will hold in gear sometimes at 3000 RPM on flat ground for some time.

OK this will get in depth........rolling down the road at 2000 rpm at say 40 MPH and you come to a slight hill or just want to go a tiny bit faster so you ease on the gas and you get what i call a half kick down......the revs seem to do a slow kick down to take the RPM to 3000...if you keep easing on the gas very slowly so the engine is under load and you want it to pull just a little harder the engine feels like its miss firing. He egg shaped wheel feeling. I can hold this feeling right through to 4500/5000 RPM if i keep easing on the gas. Sometimes the feeling is quite violent. It will jerk me in the seat back wards and forwards! (no rude comments please) The feeling is like a miss fire of the engine or a pulsing/surging sensation.

Yesterday after picking the car up from the dealer i thought they had it fixed but this time i was passing another truck at 70-80 MPH and in that half kick down area of the tranni it started again. Now i can re-produce it at the 2000 - 3000 RPM again. The RPM needle will appear to pulse with the feeling.

I have though for a while now that this may be a tranni issue. It's almost as if the engine and tranni are having a battle as to where the shifts should take place......change now....no no hold on a second.....CHANGE NOW......NO NOT YET.

While this jerking is happening in my kinda half kick down phase.....if you floor the gas it will clear instantly and just pull hard as it should or kick own again and be fine.

Hope this make sense and you get my message.

It sounds like the "half kickdown" is merely the torque converter unlocking. At 40-45mph in 4th gear, the rpm level should be 2250rpm-ish. In D/SD, if you encounter a hill while at this speed, the revs will jump because the torque converter, previously locked, is unlocked to give you more torque. This is normal behaviour for the 5-speed automatic. (does not apply to 6AT)

However, if accelerating at 3500rpm produces unusually rough behaviour from the motor, perhaps you are not using the best fuel available. Or there may be a problem with other internal components (fuel pump? I'm no engineer). Admittedly, 3000-4000 is what I think the roughest part of the rev band for the M54 motor. Try using manual mode and drive around town in 3rd gear (M3). Tell me if the engine is the culprit by running poorly in that rev range. If its a transmission shifting issue, manual mode should solve it because it cannot execute shifts under normal circumstances at that speed.

In my 2.5iA, slight hills at freeway speeds will also trigger a 5-4 downshift, often frequently due to the modest power of the engine. I have driven at 90mph up mountains where this occurred, and the transmission still dropped to 4th @ 4500rpm........for miles on end. I have also driven up 15% grades at 50mph where the transmission kicked down to 3rd at @5250rpm and held that for 3 miles. The important thing is: The engine is built to withstand abuse.. If you want to drive around all day at 6000rpm, the engine will not self-destruct.

Keep in mind, at higher engine speeds, shifts are usually not as smooth. When the transmission engages the Hill program and selects a downshift at 2750rpm, it is not that noticeable (this even occurs when I'm coasting sometimes). But ask it to do the same at 4250rpm, you will probably get a firm nudge.

Ishniknork 03-28-2008 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datawx (Post 3129223)
Kicking down from 2000 RPM in light throttle driving the vehicle will start to surge, if you nail it it clears. Also it will hold in gear sometimes at 3000 RPM on flat ground for some time.

OK this will get in depth........rolling down the road at 2000 rpm at say 40 MPH and you come to a slight hill or just want to go a tiny bit faster so you ease on the gas and you get what i call a half kick down......the revs seem to do a slow kick down to take the RPM to 3000...if you keep easing on the gas very slowly so the engine is under load and you want it to pull just a little harder the engine feels like its miss firing. He egg shaped wheel feeling. I can hold this feeling right through to 4500/5000 RPM if i keep easing on the gas. Sometimes the feeling is quite violent. It will jerk me in the seat back wards and forwards! (no rude comments please) The feeling is like a miss fire of the engine or a pulsing/surging sensation.

Yesterday after picking the car up from the dealer i thought they had it fixed but this time i was passing another truck at 70-80 MPH and in that half kick down area of the tranni it started again. Now i can re-produce it at the 2000 - 3000 RPM again. The RPM needle will appear to pulse with the feeling.

I have though for a while now that this may be a tranni issue. It's almost as if the engine and tranni are having a battle as to where the shifts should take place......change now....no no hold on a second.....CHANGE NOW......NO NOT YET.

While this jerking is happening in my kinda half kick down phase.....if you floor the gas it will clear instantly and just pull hard as it should or kick own again and be fine.

Hope this make sense and you get my message.

Ah, yes it does make more sense now. I know that point you're talking about. That's the point, right about 40 mph, that the torque converter will lock up if there is little load on the engine.

AzNM hit it on the head:
Quote:

Originally Posted by AzNMpower32
It sounds like the "half kickdown" is merely the torque converter unlocking. At 40-45mph in 4th gear, the rpm level should be 2250rpm-ish. In D/SD, if you encounter a hill while at this speed, the revs will jump because the torque converter, previously locked, is unlocked to give you more torque. This is normal behaviour for the 5-speed automatic.

I'm not saying you don't have a problem, sounds like you do. You seem to be able to "teeter-totter" right on the break point of the converter lock and un-lock. That's very odd indeed :confused: What really gets me is it doing that while passing at 70-80 mph when the converter should be locked. I'm thinking it could be a software problem or maybe the electronic throttle control is malfunctioning.

I'm going to try and duplicate this behavior in my X3 just to see if I can. I know a long, gentle hill to try it on. I'll let you know what happens.

Skottoman 03-28-2008 08:20 PM

You didn't happen to notice this large print BOLD sticky at the top of the X3 forum page that says...

******** 2007-2008 X3 Automatic Transmission Problem Master Thread! ?

datawx 03-28-2008 09:11 PM

We did notice Mr Driller Killer but this thread is about my Wifes 05 X3 Auto.

jo-e90 03-28-2008 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skottoman (Post 3131308)
You didn't happen to notice this large print BOLD sticky at the top of the X3 forum page that says...

******** 2007-2008 X3 Automatic Transmission Problem Master Thread! ?

You didn't happen to notice, Skottman, this thread is Titled:04-06 Automatic Transmission problems.

People who want to avoid the '07-'08 model may be looking at buying an earlier model and would like to know if the transmission problems, if any, exist in those years to decide weather to buy an X3 at all. That is why I started the thread. I learned much already.
I guess I should have put this thread in bold too. My bad.

keithsimp 03-28-2008 10:27 PM

Quote:

I am trying not to start any other threads, instead trying to stick with same subjects.
No one needs to respond anymore to this thread on my account.
thanks
(posted by OP in another thread)

Just how many threads do you intend to start before you purchase? :dunno:

datawx 03-29-2008 06:43 PM

OK further info for y'all to chew on. I can reproduce the jerky, surging feeling in D S/D and manual mode. All ways seems to be in the same rev range 3000 to 4750.

Just wired, real wired.

kjboyd 03-29-2008 08:33 PM

trust me.. i had both the 06 and the 07 and what you are feeling in the 05 is NOT the problems the 07s and 08s are having.

sfca-325i 03-29-2008 10:03 PM

04 and no tranny issues.

FireFly 03-31-2008 11:57 AM

Our 2005 holds 3k rpm's BUT only when you first start the vehicle and I believe this is for emissions reasons. Once the vehicle is warmed up the AT works flawlessly.


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