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-   -   Tire Rotation/Tire Life (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354505)

carman26 03-20-2009 07:07 PM

Tire Rotation/Tire Life
 
What are you M3 owners doing about tire rotation (extending tire life) with the staggered set-up?

With the wheels staggered (the rear wheels and tires are wider than the front wheels and tires), rotating tires is not possible and have heard that switching tires from side to side is not recommended due to the way they wear on BMW's---is this true?

How much life can we expect if there is no rotation (and normal driving)?

Anyone have thoughts on this?

foosh 03-20-2009 08:08 PM

I can't answer for this specific car, because I just took delivery of my E93. However, I can answer for the tire type given years of experience with high performance tires and cars.

You can expect 10-15K miles on these PS2s if you drive within a range of conservative to marginally-spirited. If you like the smell of burning rubber or you are an amateur autocrosser, open-tracker, or, heaven forbid, a street show-off, expect much less.

leeor 03-21-2009 07:00 PM

6k miles is my estimate according to my dealer guy. im at 4k miles and he said im at "5" out 9, and 3 is bad lol

Ajax 03-23-2009 12:52 PM

It really depends on your driving style. My last PS2's (on the E46) had over 12k miles on them at trade in and they were fine. I'm at 6k on the current set and have a long way to go. I'm not exactly babying them either.

quackbury 03-23-2009 01:31 PM

I am hearing some anecdotal evidence that the rears wear much faster than the fronts - makes sense for those who do donuts / burnouts / launch control; wonder if it's true for those who drive their M3's more (ahem) sedately?

I'm thinking about running the PS2's to where they just qualify for lease turn in (3/8ths IIRC?), replacing them with Bridgestones or something else a little more durable / less pricey, then slapping the PS2's back on when the lease is over.

New Motors 03-23-2009 01:52 PM

With all the money you saved on the deal in the first place....
Ya, good idea to save the ones on the car now and then go get a good set that will last.

TLudwig 03-23-2009 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quackbury (Post 4027353)
I am hearing some anecdotal evidence that the rears wear much faster than the fronts - makes sense for those who do donuts / burnouts / launch control; wonder if it's true for those who drive their M3's more (ahem) sedately?

I'm thinking about running the PS2's to where they just qualify for lease turn in (3/8ths IIRC?), replacing them with Bridgestones or something else a little more durable / less pricey, then slapping the PS2's back on when the lease is over.

The tires on the drive wheels (in this case, the rear tires) will wear faster than the tires on the non-drive wheels for all normal drivers, no matter how sedately you drive.

Most bought this car for its incredible handling. Why compromise that with a harder compound tire? In my mind, it's just as much about safety as performance. In non-winter conditions, these PS2s simply grip the road better than just about any other street tire available. On my E46, I got harder compound tires once and regretted it until I went back to the Pilot Sports. The car didn't feel nearly as confident in the dry or the wet. I don't mind spending a few hundred dollars more on tires each year if it helps keep me on the road and the rubber side down.

quackbury 03-23-2009 02:49 PM

Not sure I agree with you about the tire wear. On my E39 540 M Sport, hard cornering wore the fronts down faster than the rears. May not happen on the M3, but it can (and did) happen on the E39.

I couldn't track the vert with BMWCCA even if I wanted to, and highly unlikely I would ever autocross it. (Would rather spend a summer Sunday on my boat than in a parking lot or on an airstrip). Plus I got my fill of track days when I was instructing with PCA.

And while the PS2's are awesome in the dry, last time I checked their wet performance was nothing stellar. (It's been a couple of years, so I may be wrong about that).

Anyway, I'm interested in feedback, so tell me if I'm way off the mark here.

TLudwig 03-23-2009 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quackbury (Post 4027593)
Not sure I agree with you about the tire wear. On my E39 540 M Sport, hard cornering wore the fronts down faster than the rears. May not happen on the M3, but it can (and did) happen on the E39.

I couldn't track the vert with BMWCCA even if I wanted to, and highly unlikely I would ever autocross it. (Would rather spend a summer Sunday on my boat than in a parking lot or on an airstrip). Plus I got my fill of track days when I was instructing with PCA.

And while the PS2's are awesome in the dry, last time I checked their wet performance was nothing stellar. (It's been a couple of years, so I may be wrong about that).

Anyway, I'm interested in feedback, so tell me if I'm way off the mark here.

I'll take your word for it, but it's very, very surprising that the fronts would wear down faster on your E39 unless it was being tracked regularly. The E39 does naturally understeer in stock configuration, but that kind of tire wear suggests to me that the driver was consistently braking too late. :dunno:

I certainly understand that you don't want to track your E93, but I enjoy the extra performance margin that the M offers over the regular 3 series in even daily driving. I feel much safer taking a corner harder in my M3 than I do in the 335 loaner. I don't drive aggressively all the time, but I like feeling comfortable when I choose to do so. When I first bought my E46, I was depressed at how fast the rear tires (Pilot Sports) wore out, so I tried a harder compound tire. I was amazed at how much it negatively affected the handling, even on the street.

Wet performance is very important here in Houston with all the rain we get, so it's certainly a variable I pay a lot of attention to. While overall grip in the wet is crucial, the tire's behavior at the limit in the wet is just as important. I'd much rather have a tire that doesn't grip quite as well in the rain, but gives me more warning before losing traction. The only street tire I've tried that grips as well or better than the PS2 in the rain was the Eagle F1. Unfortunately, it didn't grip nearly as well in the dry. Nor did it give any warning before breaking loose. You can feel the PS2 begin to lose traction before it slips out from under you, which makes it much easier to drive at the limits.

The PS2 is also a relatively quiet and nice riding tire for a max performance tire. I've tried a few others and keep coming back to the Michelins.

quackbury 03-23-2009 06:12 PM

Thanks, T. Regarding the 540: never tracked, and it was really only the left front that wore. Cause: 3 years of perfecting trail braking on the decreasing radius offramp by my house. :angel: Had the same problem with my 911SC back in the day; Lime Rock was my home track, and as you may know, all the meaningful corners are right-handers.

On winding New England roads with limited sight lines, it's unlikely I will ever drive much above 7/10ths. Over the years I've found I can have a blast driving almost any tire to its limits. (I had as much fun with the snow tires on my 550 as I did with my RFT summer tires). And I always liked the wet performance of Bridgestone Pole Positions. But you're right - there's a lot to be said for progressive break-away and "catchability."

But looking on the Tire Rack site, there's very little price difference between the PS2's, the P Zero's and the new Bridgestones. That may change by the time I need new shoes. If not, I may stick with the PS2's after all.

Would be interested to get input from others on this board.

TLudwig 03-24-2009 06:59 AM

Your post made me smile because I have a similar off-ramp on my way into work every morning, and I've been wondering about the effect that it is having on my tire wear. The Pole Positions are a tire that I haven't tried, so I can't comment on them, but it would be good if those who do try new tires on their M3s post their experiences/reviews. I'm not married to the PS2, I just haven't yet found a tire I like better. I was also noticing that the other manufacturers seem to have closed most of the gap on price.

sayemthree 03-27-2009 11:56 PM

my PS2's look real good after 8k miles. I would expect to get 15 or 20k.

XXX555 04-25-2012 04:36 PM

Tire mileage experience
 
How many miles can I expect from my conti 3's?

captbilly 05-05-2012 09:27 AM

I have about 12000 miles on my M3 with competition package, with PS2s. I would guess they will last to nearly 20,000. I will be replacing them with PSSs, which are supposedly significantly more grippy and lest longer as well (in addition the PSS is a bit less expensive, I believe because the PS2 is being phased out since the PSS is better).

Jim in Oregon 05-08-2012 12:23 AM

I run the Pilot Sport Cup tires on the street and I figure on about 5K tops on those tires. They start at 6/32" and taper to 3/32" on the outside edges so there isn't much rubber to start with. In the summer when they are hot, the grip is amazing. They make the PS2's feel like all-season radials. Of course in the cold and wet...forget about them. I don't really recommend them, but I'm a fair-weather driver with my M3. I have a beater car for all the rest.

highyo 05-08-2012 05:26 AM

i get to guess which one of 3 different tires my car is delivered on. i was told that recently they were using Pzeros. but i suppose they can come with those, Contis, or the Michellins. i'm rooting for the ps2s of course

taxguru 05-08-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 6820895)
i get to guess which one of 3 different tires my car is delivered on. i was told that recently they were using Pzeros. but i suppose they can come with those, Contis, or the Michellins. i'm rooting for the ps2s of course

I did my ED at the end of April and my M3 had PZero's on it... I was a little surprised honestly since I thought they only did the Michelins or Contis... Not sure how the Pzero's compare...

highyo 05-08-2012 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taxguru (Post 6820996)
I did my ED at the end of April and my M3 had PZero's on it... I was a little surprised honestly since I thought they only did the Michelins or Contis... Not sure how the Pzero's compare...

according to tire rack, not well

average is 8.1 customer review vs contis at 8.2 and ps2s at 8.7. consistently rated poorly in wet traction especially.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...tition Package

taxguru 05-08-2012 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 6821091)
according to tire rack, not well

average is 8.1 customer review vs contis at 8.2 and ps2s at 8.7. consistently rated poorly in wet traction especially.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...tition Package

Guess that explains why i was slipping a little in the cold rain while I was over there :D

Oh well, I guess I'll just HAVE to drive her a little hard to wear the tires out and get some Michelins on there...

highyo 05-08-2012 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taxguru (Post 6821109)
Guess that explains why i was slipping a little in the cold rain while I was over there :D

Oh well, I guess I'll just HAVE to drive her a little hard to wear the tires out and get some Michelins on there...

hahah yeah i guess the "upside" to the pzeros is that they wear pretty quickly. it's the main reason i won't be too upset if i get any tire. i know they wont last that long anyway

rdollie 05-08-2012 12:12 PM

In my experience (Seattle) PS2s do quite well in the rain. Their grip falls off in cold weather in about the mid to high 20s in my experience. I've run P-Zeros, PS2s, etc. over the years and at this point will just stick to the best Michelin has (which at this point is the PSS which bests the PS2 in ALL categories and is significantly cheaper to boot!) My next set of tires will definitely be the PSS.

groovy_BMW 05-09-2012 05:55 PM

My pzeros lasted all of 10000 Km of pretty conservative driving. I've got a set of PSS's on the way. Much cheaper than the Pirelli's Hopefully they'll last longer.

MMME30W 05-09-2012 06:56 PM

My PO 2009 E92 has the OEM PS1's. With 24K on the odo, the tires are at 2.8mm rear and 5.0 mm front.

I have a pair of PSS on order from Tirerack to replace the rears.

highyo 05-14-2012 02:37 PM

just found out my car has pzeros on it. oh well. they're not going to last long anyway !

foolio 05-25-2012 01:27 PM

Most performance tires are directional. So, if you have a staggered setup, rotation side to side should not be one either.


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