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-   -   Another Speaker Thread (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410413)

shamernj 11-06-2009 02:17 PM

Another Speaker Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
OK, I have finally given up on Bavarian Soundwerks ever producing an X3 specific speaker. They've been saying "soon" for the past two years.:thumbdwn:

I came across the Rockford Fosgate T142 and the mounting holes look like it might actually work with the X3 without any modification or additional bracket being required.

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...n_US&p_status=

Attached (assuming I did it right) is the cutout for the speaker giving diameter etc. Anybody out there measured their original speaker and can comment on the likelihood of these fitting? The depth is 1.79 inches which looks good but not sure about the sensitivity of 86 dB using the current amps though - I like my music loud. The speakers can be obtained for much less than the $199.99 on the website.

evlengr - just in case you're wondering I don't think your reputation was at all tarnished by that other thread and your opinion here would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Stuart

Evlengr 11-06-2009 03:02 PM

Thanks,

preciate the comment. I have the speakers in a box at home so I can give you exact measurements and a picture later on if that will help. Probably this evening some time.

EE

shamernj 11-06-2009 03:06 PM

that would be great - thanks,

Stuart

Evlengr 11-07-2009 04:56 AM

4 inch door speakers
 
4 Attachment(s)
Sorry long week, fell asleep last night. The speakers I installed had a depth of 1 7/8" and were 4" in diameter. Attached are pictures of the stock speakers. Look closely and you can see I took pictures of inner and outer ring as well as top shots.

Hope that will give some guidance. Sorry I never took pictures of original door installs as I was focusing on the project and a little nervous. Actually pretty easy as long as you use a plastic or nylon pry tool set as to not chip the wood inserts. And never never tear those darn vapor barriers. Lol.

codog2 11-07-2009 08:47 AM

Are those for the front doors? I assume you are keeping the head unit and amplifier stock? Let us know how much of a difference the just replacing the speakers make

Also those Rockford's are two way speakers? Will that work - aren't the factory speakers just one way? Is there a crossover from the factory to direct the sound to the tweeters on the dash?

General questions about removing the door panels. What precautions do you have to make about the side airbags? Are they in the front doors themselves?

shamernj 11-07-2009 10:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks. I took the two pictures, scaled them and then superimposed them. It looks like the holes match up but not sure about the depth. The attached picture shows the total depth to be 2.5 inches with 0.7 inches of that sticking out into the car.

Also concerned about the specs - primarily the 86 dB sensitivity. Anybody tried using speakers of this sensitivity with the stock amps?

They're two way with an internal crossover so I don't think there would be any issues from that perspective in getting them to work.

Thanks,

Stuart

Evlengr 11-07-2009 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamernj (Post 4663851)
Thanks. I took the two pictures, scaled them and then superimposed them. It looks like the holes match up but not sure about the depth. The attached picture shows the total depth to be 2.5 inches with 0.7 inches of that sticking out into the car.

Also concerned about the specs - primarily the 86 dB sensitivity. Anybody tried using speakers of this sensitivity with the stock amps?

They're two way with an internal crossover so I don't think there would be any issues from that perspective in getting them to work.

Thanks,

Stuart

The spl sensitivity is pretty low. I'm not sure they will give you the improvements you are looking for. I would suspect in the low 90's is much better.

Co-ax speakers are fine.

Let me do some quick research and get back to you.

Evlengr 11-07-2009 05:59 PM

Ok, here's what I have come up with based on experience. I couldn't find the specs for the internal amplifier. The business cd sound system is what I have so that is my base line.

It seems to me that it is a low level amp because the "subs" are set to 2 ohms and the door speakers are 4 ohms. For those who want to know the long winded engineering reasoning pm me. This is the abridged non sleepy version.

IMO the speakers you have selected will work with some minor exceptions:
  • Very tight fit because of the deep magnet on the back and the extruding tweeters
  • Low spl will work, but will overdrive the amp and at higher volumes may cause distortion
  • These will sound much better with an outboard amp.
  • You can add an outboard amp later without changing the H/U
  • This is what one board member recommended and looks great on paper http://www.crutchfield.com/p_236REQ5...428&tab=review

What most people don't realize is that you can upgrade your sound system in stages until you achieve the quality you like. An old saying applies: Plan your work, and work your plan.

If you only plan to do the speakers than I recommend a higher spl and different speaker. If not than go with them and plan on an amp that will work as a 2x1. Meaning one that will handle both bass and full range seperately. Alpine makes anumber of good amps from $200 to 600 that will do a good to great job.

If you are doing the work yourself and want to keep the original H/U expect to spend $800 to $1600 for a full system.

That speaker is good but a bit overkill without an external amp.

Give some thought to these as they will be very efficient, but you will need to do both front and back to keep the amps impedance balanced.

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_1...9i.html?tp=102

I have to warn you --they are bright on the highs. Some people love them and others hate them. Kind of like our X3's, Lol.

If you can listen to them somewhere I would. Technically speaking they would work much better then the RF and are cheaper.

shamernj 11-08-2009 11:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks Evlengr. I found the attached diagram of the Kappas online. It looks like the total envelope is almost identical to the Rockfords so they should fit. I'm not a fan of ultra bright speakers.

As for future upgrades I was hoping to change out the speakers only but I'm willing to install an amp if necessary to get the sound I want. Do you know of any amps that would fit in the same space as the factory amp or would I have to mount it where yours is?

Another change I would like to make is replace the "sub" woofers in the floor but that can wait. I imagine that would need an amp upgrade so maybe I could do that at the same time as adding an amp for the mains if required.

Thanks,

Stuart.

Evlengr 11-08-2009 03:05 PM

I would suggest mounting it where mine is, but using a PDX-5 Alpine Amp. This will make returning your sound system to factory much easier should the need arise, less to remove and the amp I suggested will mount very easy without bloody knuckles or the Yosemite Sam cursing that comes with many jobs. I kept my bmw 8 inch subs for almost a year before changing them out and the added power made them sound so much better until I upgraded.

They are now down to $450.00 which is quite the price reduction. It is actually two amps in one.

4 channel for the doors. x 75 watts

1 channel for the subs x 300 watts.

Although this may seem like overkill it is inherently the same idea as our engines. It will be a very rare day that you hit 137 mph, but having all that power in check means never having to work your x3 hard to get up to highway speeds of 80.

Your amp will always deliver smooth sound without ever running hot. And heat equals distortion.

thinset 11-08-2009 05:33 PM

I've been searching for some advice about upgrading the factory stereo for quite some time and just came across this post.

The plan is to keep the stock head unit, replace the front door speakers and add a sub, both of which will be powered from an Xtant 403a amp that has been gathering dust for way too long. The great thing about the Xtant 403a is that it accepts speaker level/ balanced inputs. Based on what I have read in a few other forums it seems that the factory Business CD puts out a fairly clean line level to the factory amp, so at this point I'm not expecting to add a JL Audio type clean sweep.

Has anyone come across any information for the wiring layout at the factory amp in the rear quarter panel? I plan to tap these plugs for the line level/ signal inputs, and again for the front speaker wiring.

The options presented for the front speakers don't seem too promising, is the main concern mounting depth? Does anyone have any info on the depth available? I've noticed that MB Quart makes a shallow coax that may be the ticket.

Lastly, what is the general consensus on keeping the 8" under the seats powered? Depending on the ohm load, I could wire them in parallel/ series with the fronts. Perhaps replacing these with some shallow Pioneer subs and powering from the amp may be sufficient enough reason to not need a sub box. Not looking for neighborhood waking bass, but certainly cleaning everything up at higher volumes.

Thanks in advance for all the help. I will be photographing the install to help future DIYers as well.

Evlengr 11-09-2009 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinset (Post 4666982)
I've been searching for some advice about upgrading the factory stereo for quite some time and just came across this post.

The plan is to keep the stock head unit, replace the front door speakers and add a sub, both of which will be powered from an Xtant 403a amp that has been gathering dust for way too long. The great thing about the Xtant 403a is that it accepts speaker level/ balanced inputs. Based on what I have read in a few other forums it seems that the factory Business CD puts out a fairly clean line level to the factory amp, so at this point I'm not expecting to add a JL Audio type clean sweep.

Has anyone come across any information for the wiring layout at the factory amp in the rear quarter panel? I plan to tap these plugs for the line level/ signal inputs, and again for the front speaker wiring.

The options presented for the front speakers don't seem too promising, is the main concern mounting depth? Does anyone have any info on the depth available? I've noticed that MB Quart makes a shallow coax that may be the ticket.

Lastly, what is the general consensus on keeping the 8" under the seats powered? Depending on the ohm load, I could wire them in parallel/ series with the fronts. Perhaps replacing these with some shallow Pioneer subs and powering from the amp may be sufficient enough reason to not need a sub box. Not looking for neighborhood waking bass, but certainly cleaning everything up at higher volumes.

Thanks in advance for all the help. I will be photographing the install to help future DIYers as well.

Keep meaning to get speaker wiring layouts brown and yellow comes to mind when I recall using the existing wiring.

The MB quarts will work, but I have my concerns with the front mount and not the depth of these. As it appears that the seperate tweeter in the center of the driver extrudes a bit and may press up against the door grill. I never measured that distance.

Sub under the seat are driven at 2 ohms as opposed to the doors at 4 ohms.

They sound fine powered by a single Alpine amp, but I have never settled on just fine. They lack the bottom end frequency response below 200Hz that gives the nice punch to classical, dance, and rock alike. Not talking about the whump whump that the unknowledgeable use. Also, I recommend NOT using a ported box for your sub. If you want a nice tight punch to the bass this is the way to go, imo.

Hope that answers more than asks questions.

EE

SpartanGA 11-09-2009 09:59 AM

where do you mount the amp and how readily accessible is the speaker wiring to where you mount the amp?

Evlengr 11-09-2009 11:47 AM

SmithS,

I would say look it up, but I can't even find where I posted the pictures, hahahaa.

In other words, no problem give me til tonight when I can access my files at home and post pics.

One of these days I am going to take advantage of home file server and set one up. Cheap as all get out and allows for even video sharing remotely.

Cheers,

EE


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