P0411 Error Code -- Secondary Air Injection System
Hello everyone, I've recently acquired a P0411 secondary air injection system code and have been troubleshooting it. I've researched the problem on the other forums, as well as followed the do it yourself troubleshooting from BavAuto.com
The question I have for anyone, is that when I took the injection tube off the control valve on the exhaust manifold, I found clear fluid in the fitting, my guess is water. Is that what has potentially ruined my valve?? I looked up the part number on the valve and noticed is has changed at some point?? Possibly a new revision that works better than the original?? No warranty on that BMW?? or recall. Thanks alot. :mad: Getting ready to dump the Bimmer for a Bemmer if repairs continue draining my bank account.
Any ideas out there on the subject??
whats a Bemmer?
IF this is like theE39 system which I would presume it is this system only works for 90 seconds or so after a cold start up with outside temps below 40 or so as I recall.
I am assuming you have located the vacuum controlled valve. It should have a large hose and a small tube attached to it. The large tube is incoming air from the secondary air pump. If you detach this tube within the initial 90 seconds it should be blowing a lot of air. If not and/or this is the tube with water then the secondary air pump may be shot. Or, perhaps the other end of this hose could have come detached from the pump. On the E83 I don't know where the pump is located but in the E39 it is in the right fender well behind the wheel liner thus subject to salt/water etc.
It this large hose is blowing air pull the smaller tube. You should be able to feel a vacuum as the vacuum is what opens the valve. If you don't have suction then you have a vacuum issue which is most likely a problem with the oil separator and or hoses/lines attached to it. The oil separator was the result of some sick German design contest to see how complicated and difficult to repair a simple crankcase ventilation valve could be made. It is unbelievable.
If you have vacuum on this line the valve itself could be bad. Remove it (but go buy a new gasket first) and suck/blow on valve to see if the diaphram is working properly. Another possibility is that if you have had a valve cover gasket replaced and the tubes are routed in a similar manner to the E39 it is real easy to pinch one with a valve cover I was recently told.
Here is the secondary air pump system- http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=11&fg=50&hl=1
Here is the crankcase ventilation system to which I believe the above is attached http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=15&hl=52
- valve gets stuck in the open or partly open position instead of closing after 90 secs. or so
- exhaust gases (containing water vapor) get through valve on permanent basis
- water gets into pump which is in no way corrosion resistant
- pump starts to rust
- clanking sounds may be heard while pump is in operation
- pump eventually disintegrates
So you are doing the right thing by verifying that the valve is not doing its job, and planning to replace it before the pump is compromised.
How much water you found may be important, as any CEL does not necessarily mean that something needs to be replaced.
It could be that some water is condensed during the 90 sec. normal operation of the valve.
Not sure on that.
Maybe the revised valve is meant to avoid the sticking problem.
At least in the X3, the valve and pump look to be more protected from the elements than in some other BMW models.
Tucking it in behind the windshield washer tank might be only a packaging decision,
but it is much more accessible for servicing than, say, the CVV on the other side of the engine.
Thanks everyone for the responses. Just to clarify for a couple of you; Cubed, a bemmer is a BMW motorcycle which has exceptional longevity. X3emist, on the X3 secondary air system EGR valve, there is no vacuum line to test the functionality of the valve, that kind of sucks.
It appears that my valve is stuck closed, it has yet to open to my knowledge. The fan definitely blows for about 10 seconds on a cold startup, and the thing sounds like a wicked fast hair dryer. Thankfully the questionable part EGR valve is only $100. The fan module is $400 !!! Don't let those things fail. If they do I think you could trick the system with jumpers and quite possibly remove this ridiculous system. I will let you all know the final Dx when I put in the right part and everything works properly.
Okay, I broke down and bought the stupid POS control valve. It DID fix the problem !! I also came up with a home diagnostic situation to prove to anyone that the old one was bad. Take the new valve and throw it in the freezer when you get home. After 30 minutes take it out and blow into the input side (where the tube connects from the fan) and blow hard, air should go through it a little bit to the output side that connects to the exhaust manifold. Warning, don't freeze your lips to the cold metal, trust me, it could happen. This proves the new one works, now put it on a heat register in your house and get it warmed up, now blow into it, nothing should come out.
I put the new valve in, and tried the above procedure with the old valve, and trust me, no matter how hard you blow, it doesn't let air through. So I cut it open to see why the POS failed. Below is a picture of the actuating shaft that is on the exhaust side of the valve. See the corrosion !! BMW, do you see it !! That's why they seize up and don't work, it's not lubricated or sealed and protected from exhaust heat and junk !!!
Anyway, I just thought everyone would like to see what the final end result was thanks to our wonderful emmission standards, thanks California, now fall off into the ocean already.
fantrider=favorite new forum member.
Thanks for taking time to explore this issue
This is the kind of post that potentially benefits everyone here. Thanks for exploring the issue and reporting back your findings.
Sorry to raise this from the dead...but I have a similar problem. Also, wanted to make a correction to the term "bemmer", it's actually bEEmer, for the motorcycle version. :thumbup:
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