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-   -   2010 X5 35D Diesel Exhaust Urea Reservo (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410)

bmwfans 04-13-2010 10:42 PM

2010 X5 35D Diesel Exhaust Urea Reservo
 
I have a 2010 X5 35d with 1200 miles on it. The display came on warning that the count down on restarting had begun. 999 miles left before it will not restart. I reset to warning display using the i-drive to click O.K.
I took it to the dealer today and the Key had no warning on it, and the vehicle status display showed everything was O.K. They said to let them know if the warning came back on because they were sure the Exhaust Urea was full when the car was shipped new two weeks ago.
Any thoughts????????
Thanks:(

fonger 04-14-2010 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwfans (Post 5101717)
I have a 2010 X5 35d with 1200 miles on it. The display came on warning that the count down on restarting had begun. 999 miles left before it will not restart. I reset to warning display using the i-drive to click O.K.
I took it to the dealer today and the Key had no warning on it, and the vehicle status display showed everything was O.K. They said to let them know if the warning came back on because they were sure the Exhaust Urea was full when the car was shipped new two weeks ago.
Any thoughts????????
Thanks:(

Did they double check to see if it still has DEF in it right now or how much is left?

Funf Dreisig 04-14-2010 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonger (Post 5102050)
Did they double check to see if it still has DEF in it right now or how much is left?

Are you :loco: This is a BMW dealer's service department we are talking about. No fault -> no fix :rolleyes:

Funf Dreisig

bmwfans 04-14-2010 06:57 AM

The BMW service Dept. did say it, and no they did not check the fluid level. They said the only way to check it was to fill it. I said so what is the problem???? There is no dip stick.........

Funf Dreisig 04-14-2010 07:11 AM

Seriously, there a only a few things that can trigger the DEF warning at 1,200 miles on a DEF system that is working properly...
1 - The passive tank was frozen for quite a while (e.g. nearly the full 1,200 miles). Pretty unlikely given the time of year. But possible if you were traveling in the mountains for most of the 1,200 miles.
2 - The passive tank on the DEF system was not completely filled. IOW you have consumed the DEF in the smaller active tank and there was/is no DEF in the passive tank to refill it.

AFAIK ALL the other explanations require some DEF system defect/failure, including...
3 - A malfunctioning DEF level sensor in the active tank.
4 - A leak that drained the DEF.
5 - A plumbing defect that kept the active tank from being replenished by the passive tank.

My bet would be #2 or #3. If its #2 then you will get the warning again very soon. If its #3 :dunno:

Funf Dreisig

Funf Dreisig 04-14-2010 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwfans (Post 5102134)
The BMW service Dept. did say it, and no they did not check the fluid level. They said the only way to check it was to fill it. I said so what is the problem???? There is no dip stick.........

FWIW this sounds like a BMW dealer service dept. that is inexperienced with the 35d.

1 - Several people have reported that their dealer WAS able to check the DEF levels via the BMW diagnostic equipment.
2 - Even if they had to fill it to make sure it was not malfunctioning.... Why didn't they fill it just to be sure? Even at BMW's inflated prices, the DEF that should have been consumed in 1,200mi would probably cost less than $100*.

FWIW if at 1,200 mile my dealer had told me that the only way to check the level of the DEF in my tanks was to fill them. I'd have called his bluff and agreeded to pay for the first 1.5 gals of DEF (the amount in the small tank) IFF the dealer/BMW would pick up the tab on the rest of the DEF required and all labor charges :)

Funf Dreisig

* As I've posted several times before - a 35d owner can DIY refill the entire DEF system using Cummins brand DEF for UNDER $50 retail, including the funnel.

bmwfans 04-14-2010 07:42 PM

Thanks for the input......I'll copy these replies and take them to my dealer......
Maybe they will do something.
I'll let you all know what happens.
Thanks

ard 04-14-2010 09:03 PM

I had a DEF warning at around 2400 miles. Went away with the next restart... lasted another 7200 miles.

The did a flush/fill on the DEF with my oil service, but there was no DEF warning- so no idea how much fluid was left.


Food for thought....

Funf Dreisig 04-15-2010 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 5104774)
I had a DEF warning at around 2400 miles. Went away with the next restart... lasted another 7200 miles.

The did a flush/fill on the DEF with my oil service, but there was no DEF warning- so no idea how much fluid was left.....

IIRC You've only had your 35d since sometime in Nov. Was your 9,600 mile oil (and DEF) service 'conditions based'? IOW was it covered under warranty? You also did a DIY oil service fairly early on. Is that correct?

Funf Dreisig

ard 04-15-2010 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig (Post 5105195)
IIRC You've only had your 35d since sometime in Nov. Was your 9,600 mile oil (and DEF) service 'conditions based'? IOW was it covered under warranty? You also did a DIY oil service fairly early on. Is that correct?

Funf Dreisig

Yes, Oil was condition based although I personally did an 'interstitial' change after break in. Frankly I was surprised to get an oil warning at 9500.

They did the DEF without prompting. FYI the work order listed "2.5 bottles" of DEF- apparently they are about 2.5 gallons, so it takes ~2.5x2.5=6.5 gallons

I did not reset my oil service when I did the change (duh)

I am awaiting UOAs on both oils, will post up when done

A

Funf Dreisig 04-15-2010 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 5105846)
.....Frankly I was surprised to get an oil warning at 9500...

Have you been driving that baby like it was stolen? :tsk: :rolleyes:


Funf Dreisig

cablue 04-20-2010 08:31 AM

My countdown showed up early, maybe 1,200 mi., but I was traveling in a snowstorm. It went away on its own. It's now back, at 10,800 mi. I also needed an extra quart of oil at 6,400 mi. I'll be bringing it in soon for the fill.

ard 04-20-2010 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig (Post 5105968)
Have you been driving that baby like it was stolen? :tsk: :rolleyes:


Funf Dreisig

No, actually. In fact I rarely drive it.

Wife drives it and is VERY easy on cars. I don't think she's every pressed the accelerator hard enough to kick it down a gear.

Just a LOT of rural roads.

A

tharris48 04-27-2010 05:01 PM

My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.

fonger 04-27-2010 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharris48 (Post 5139556)
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.

Is your dealership making you pay? If so how much and what's the dealership name? I'm in VA as well and is concerned about this as well. If it's expensive then you might want to fill it up yourself, from what I read the stuff isn't expensive(non-bmw branded).

Penguin 04-27-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharris48 (Post 5139556)
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.


The DEF flush and fill at the time of indicated oil changes should unquestionably be covered under the BMW free maintenance. And at 11K you should be close to an oil change. If they wanted to charge me, I would just fill the easily-reached small secondary tank myself and wait for the oil change to get a free "full" refill.

ard 04-27-2010 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharris48 (Post 5139556)
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.

As mentioned BMW will absolutely cover a full flush and refill IF IT IS DONE WHEN THE CAR SAYS "Oilservice".

HOWEVER, BMW will cover these on a 'case by case' basis. Here's the deal: the legal language they've used in the manual and in the "Maintenance and Warranty" document is defective- and they know it. However there are not many people that will challenge them on this...if you can mount a cogent challenge they will cover it.

tharris- did you sign anything agreeing to pay a dime? If not, refuse to pay for it. Especially effective if they went ahead and did it and now seeking payment.

The issue is that they say in the legal agreement: 'DEF will only be covered it done when the car tells you it is necessary'. BMW has 'redefined' this to mean "when the oilservice warning comes on'. But the legal agreement has no such distinction- in fact the owners manual clearly describes the DEF warnings and service process- and when the 'fill DEF' message comes up, it does in fact meet the terms in the policy.

How did this happen? Some lazy BMW lawyer-flunky just copied the same text they use to restrict the maintenance to only when the CBS requires it. So they say 'oil changes outside the oilservice warning will not be covered'. This makes sense. We all know they only cover the oil change when the car says change oil...unfortunately (for them) they just replaced 'oil' with 'DEF' and used the same text to address the DEF fills... problem is they didn't realize the DEF has it's own independent warning! and the DEF warning is, in fact, a "condition based service" warning.

My 2 cents. It will take some research, a letter and a conversation with BMWNA back in jersey, but based on my experience I think it likely they will cover it.

A

Funf Dreisig 04-27-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin (Post 5139675)
The DEF flush and fill at the time of indicated oil changes should unquestionably be covered under the BMW free maintenance. And at 11K you should be close to an oil change. If they wanted to charge me, I would just fill the easily-reached small secondary tank myself and wait for the oil change to get a free "full" refill.

I agree.

At 11k a 35d must be due for a condition based oil change real soon now. Adding DEF to the small "active" tank would probably be cost effective even if you purchased the DEF from BMW in their fancy 'no spill' bottle.

Of course, the next step would be to find a competent BMW service department -- ASAP.

Funf Dreisig

tharris48 04-28-2010 07:10 AM

Thanks so much for your input. I am supposed to pick up my vehicle today and even though my service rep thinks it is crazy that BMWNA has even suggested that I am responsible for the in between DEF fills, he says that the newest service bulletin states that the owner is responsible. I again, now with the input received here on the forum, I will try and get them to cover the costs. I appreciate all the info I have read online here and now know that this is something my husband can easily do at home with some Cummins DEF himself (luckily he is very mechanically inclined). On that note, the question came up about resetting this warning. Does it reset itself once the DEF is refilled or is it one of those things that you need a reset tool to do? Please advise...............

tharris48 04-28-2010 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonger (Post 5139575)
Is your dealership making you pay? If so how much and what's the dealership name? I'm in VA as well and is concerned about this as well. If it's expensive then you might want to fill it up yourself, from what I read the stuff isn't expensive(non-bmw branded).

I have been told it would cost $140 for the fill. I am going to question how much was used to actually fill the DEF and go from there. The dealership in question is CASEY BMW in Newport News. We bought our X5 from Checkered Flag in VA Beach but they are just too far for us to go to for service (about an hour and a half). CASEY BMW is closest (about 45 min away) for our service needs. I regret to say that we have had to bring the truck in for several maintenance concerns in the 10 months we have owned it but CASEY has always provided us with a decent loaner car and been very good about keeping us abreast of what is going on with our vehicle.
But now that I have learned about refilling the DEF ourselves, we are definately going to approach this maintenance ourselves in the future. It doesn't sound too complicated and my husband is very capable of handling this himself. Overall, we LOVE this vehicle, it has just required more trips to the dealership than we thought we would be having to do.........................

Funf Dreisig 04-28-2010 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharris48 (Post 5140758)
... On that note, the question came up about resetting this warning. Does it reset itself once the DEF is refilled or is it one of those things that you need a reset tool to do? Please advise...............

I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've read, the warning resets itself soon after the sensor realizes that the smaller "active" tank has enough DEF. Several people have reported having the sensor come on and go off by itself (e.g. ARD).

Note: the manual explains how an owner can top up the small tank DIY. So this is an 'approved' DIY maintenance item when you use the special BMW DEF filling bottle. OTOH I don't see how BMW could ever know whether you used Cummins or BMW DEF since it is a generic product.

Funf Dreisig

0428 04-28-2010 10:31 AM

Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.

Penguin 04-28-2010 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0428 (Post 5141359)
Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.

Depends.


My X5 has 8,000 miles on it with no problems or issues whatsoever.

It has loads of power for passing, gets about 26-27 mpg, and with the eco credit and tax credit was a couple of grand cheaper than the lower performance gasoline six.

Great deal for me so far...

twssas 04-28-2010 11:27 AM

Today 2200 mile DEF warning
 
Driving home today, got a 999 mile warning. Low DEF levels. 2200 miles of relatively easy driving. Got home shut vehicle down....restarted a couple of times, remembering that I had read here that others had the warning, shut down, restarted, and then it cleared, without any additional problems. My warning stayed on.

After I wrote a couple of threads on Bimmerfest, thought I would go ahead and run over to the dealer.....started the vehicle for the 3d time (after receiving warning), and low and behold, it had cleared. No more warning. Shut it down again, restarted. Still no warning. Went to the idrive functions, checked systems....reported all system OK. Did this twice.

So.......guess I will just monitor for now. I remember bmwfans posted they took their vehicle to the dealer after a similar incident, and the dealer could not even find where there had been a message with a warning.

Just wondering....any other similar experiences here? I really didn't want to start the process with the dealer about the addition of fluid......:thumbdwn:

ard 04-28-2010 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharris48 (Post 5140758)
, he says that the newest service bulletin states that the owner is responsible. .......

Like I posted above, it is a legal issue- BMW can put out all the service bulletins they want- it doesn't correct the defect in the language in the warranty. I am sure the dealer hasn't a clue to the crux of the issue either. They, like most owners will just say "Oh, it must be true, BMW has a document".

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0428 (Post 5141359)
Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.

Again with the diesel bashing dude... you and Craig... ever since his lexus got pulled off the road, he's fallen silent. What's it gonna take with you?:dunno: Is it that your city dwelling, sophisticated sensibilities somehow offended by the unwashed hordes of BMW diesel owners??:thumbup:

:angel:

I got the diesel for performance and the sound, BTW.



twssas- I had a warning at 2000 miles or so- cleared with the next restart. Made it to 9600 miles when I had an oilservice done (based on the CBS indicator) and they did a flush and fill of DEF. 6.5 gallons


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