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-   -   $10k off MSRP too much to ask for new '09 30i? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458845)

marcw 05-27-2010 09:00 PM

$10k off MSRP too much to ask for new '09 30i?
 
So I'm interested in a new '09 sDrive30i at a semi-local dealer (2 hr drive) and was wondering if my invoice math is correct. The car was punched on 8/09 to take advantage of the $5k incentive at the time. It has 125 miles on it and is considered a demo. Never titled. The car comes with premium package, metallic paint, through-loading, and wood trim.

Base sDrive30i...........$42090
Metallic paint..............$ 500
4UT (through-loading)..$ 175
4BN (wood trim)..........$ 455
ZPP (premium)...........$ 3550
Destination.................$ 825
Training service...........$ 180

Total invoice..............$47775
BMW incentive...........-$ 5000

Total cost to dealer.....$42775
Now here's where the $10k comes in. On the dealers own website the following is stated:
"This is a brand new untitled BMW Z4 with the Coral Red Kansas Interior. This is another unique interior combo you would expect from BMW. Save over $10,000 off of MSRP."

I asked the dealer to give me a quote on this car and the best he is willing to do now is $8500 off MSRP. He is telling me that yes they punched the car to get the incentive and were willing to discount this car $10k at the time they punched the car. However, they had two '09s and decided to split the discount they got for punching this car between the two cars. The other car was sold last week. So the way I see it they are not being true to their own advertising on their own web page. So is $10k off too much to ask?

I get that erdoran's deal is one of those once in a lifetime deals and pretty much too good to be repeated. But that was $17k off. I'm 'only' asking for $10k. Though I guess if my math above is correct the dealer would take a loss at $10k off msrp ($51700 - $10k = $41700).

Should I move on and keep looking if $8500 off is their final offer?

Thanks,
-Marc

erdoran 05-28-2010 04:40 AM

BS-they get a discount PER CAR, they shouldn't have to split it. At a MINIMUM if you push for it you'll get their advertised price, and you may well do better, especially considering the punch date. In addition to my deal, three other guys on this board got similar deals, look them up in this topic--Jim Patterson, Rafale, and rolf-dieter. You can find everyone I think in the "sanity check" topic, or search their posts for their deals.

$10k off is the MINIMUM you should expect and you may be able to do better. Talk to Jim Patterson, he's in your area, he might have seen other deals. My dealer in CT had a couple of other Z4s similarly discounted, worth checking their website too, or look in the "blowout prices" topic for a link to their ad.

Because of the punch date, you should also expect them to extend the warranty by 3 months/5k miles; this is often done for a car with an already-running warranty. You hold the cards here, the longer the car sits on the lot with the clock running on the warranty the less valuable it is. Punching it really jump-starts depreciation!

HospiceDoc 05-28-2010 05:32 AM

Absolutely they should stick to their advertised price, at a minimum! If not, find another dealer.

FWIW, I got 5K off MSRP for my soon-to-be-delivered 2011- so I would think you can do at least double that for a car that is going to be two model years behind before long.

Z4luvr 05-28-2010 05:54 AM

Like erdoran said, that split the rebate talk is BS. You should call him on that and ask to see the paperwork. Look at the other threads mentioned. You should be getting much more than $10K off MSRP. If he won't do $10K off MSRP tell him "no thanks, and good luck moving that car. Maybe you could sell it if you didn't just flat out lie to people."

SARAFIL 05-28-2010 05:55 AM

My old boss (a wise man) used to tell me this whenever I asked his opinion about what I should do with aged new or used inventory: "Forget what you own the car for, figure out what it is worth now and get as close to that as you can." In other words, it doesn't matter if they only got the market allowance for one car and decided to split it. This car is worth what it is worth as a leftover 2009, and seeing as how the 2011s are basically out and about already they should be willing to price this car to sell if they want to move it. In my opinion, $8,500 is not enough off for that car and I'm not even sure if $10,000 is either. It's a pretty basic car... the first number of your selling price should be a "3".

SARAFIL 05-28-2010 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z4luvr (Post 5217938)
Like erdoran said, that split the rebate talk is BS. You should call him on that and ask to see the paperwork.

It might not be BS (I've seen dealers do stuff this this before), but it doesn't matter to him. The car is worth what it is worth at this point, as it is almost 2 model years old. How the dealer handles the accounting of their rebate is irrelevant, they need to realize that they need to price the car properly if they want to sell it-- that is all he should care about.

Z4luvr 05-28-2010 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 5217939)
My old boss (a wise man) used to tell me this whenever I asked his opinion about what I should do with aged new or used inventory: "Forget what you own the car for, figure out what it is worth now and get as close to that as you can." In other words, it doesn't matter if they only got the market allowance for one car and decided to split it. This car is worth what it is worth as a leftover 2009, and seeing as how the 2011s are basically out and about already they should be willing to price this car to sell if they want to move it. In my opinion, $8,500 is not enough off for that car and I'm not even sure if $10,000 is either. It's a pretty basic car... the first number of your selling price should be a "3".

Correct - the real issue is what the car is worth. The reason it is still on his lot is that he is asking too much. I don't think $10,000 off MSRP is a good deal, but I know only $8500 off is a bad deal.

marcw 05-28-2010 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdoran (Post 5217857)
Because of the punch date, you should also expect them to extend the warranty by 3 months/5k miles; this is often done for a car with an already-running warranty. You hold the cards here, the longer the car sits on the lot with the clock running on the warranty the less valuable it is. Punching it really jump-starts depreciation!

They are extending the warranty by 3 months/5k miles. Thanks for the input. I agree that in the end the deal should start with a "3". I had thought we'd start negotiating at $10k off and go from there. His first offer was $6700 off and when I told him he isn't even in the ballpark he came back with $8500.

-Marc

Rolf-Dieter 05-28-2010 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdoran (Post 5217857)
BS-they get a discount PER CAR, they shouldn't have to split it. At a MINIMUM if you push for it you'll get their advertised price, and you may well do better, especially considering the punch date. In addition to my deal, three other guys on this board got similar deals, look them up in this topic--Jim Patterson, Rafale, and rolf-dieter. You can find everyone I think in the "sanity check" topic, or search their posts for their deals.

$10k off is the MINIMUM you should expect and you may be able to do better. Talk to Jim Patterson, he's in your area, he might have seen other deals. My dealer in CT had a couple of other Z4s similarly discounted, worth checking their website too, or look in the "blowout prices" topic for a link to their ad.

Because of the punch date, you should also expect them to extend the warranty by 3 months/5k miles; this is often done for a car with an already-running warranty. You hold the cards here, the longer the car sits on the lot with the clock running on the warranty the less valuable it is. Punching it really jump-starts depreciation!

Erdoran and BS. Just to clarify I am in Canada and the $53,550- Price I paid was in Canadian Dollars.

My car is a 2009 Z4 Sdrive 3.5i it had 5500 KM on it and came with the following installed options;

$53,550 Body style 2 door Convertible, Engine 3.0 Liter, Transmission Automatic, Ext. Color Bronze Int. Color Black

Comments
The price above was an internet special price of $53,550. Regular price of the vehiclve is $56,900. Executive Package - Heated Steering Wheel - Alarm System - Wind Deflector - Power Folding Mirrors - Compass Mirror - SIRIUS Satellite Radio Tuner - LOGIC7 Sound System - USB Audio Integration Sport Package - 19" Cross Spoke Alloy Wheels Performance Run-Flat Tires - Sport Seats - Anthracite Roof Liner

Options - AM/FM Stereo Air Conditioning Alarm Alloy Wheels Anti-Lock Brakes Anti-Theft Auto Dimming Mirrors CD Player Cruise Control Driver Air Bag Dual Air Bag Dual Climate Controls Fog Lights Heated Mirrors Heated Seats Intermittent Wipers Keyless Entry Leather Interior Memory Seats Passenger Air Bag Power Locks Power Mirrors Power Seat Power Steering Power Windows Premium Audio Premium and/or Oversized Wheels Rain Sensor Wipers Rear Defroster Side Impact Air Bag Stability Control Sunroof Tilt Steering Traction Control Xenon Headlights

ENTERTAINMENT FEATURES - Steering wheel mounted audio controls CD player Radio data system Diversity antenna Wireless connectivity MP3 decoder AM/FM radio

SEATS AND TRIM - Power passenger seat Sport steering wheel Power driver seat Front seats: bucket Front centre armrest Leather upholstery Leather shift knob Rear seat centre armrest Heated front seats Max seating capacity: 2

CONVENIENCE FEATURES - Power windows Auto-dimming rearview mirror Remote keyless entry Power trunk closing assist Passenger door bin Passenger vanity mirror Driver vanity mirror Residual heat recirculation 1-touch down Memory seat Automatic temperature control Front beverage holders Emergency communication system Telescoping steering wheel Illuminated entry Speed control 1-touch up Driver door bin Air conditioning Garage door transmitter Front dual zone A/C Tilt steering wheel

BODY EXTERIOR - Power door mirrors Glass rear window Power convertible roof Bumpers: body-color Heated door mirrors Convertible roof lining Door mirrors: body-color Convertible hard top

LIGHTING, VISIBILITY AND INSTRUMENTATION - Front reading lights Front fog lights Low tire pressure warning High intensity discharge headlights Rain sensing wipers Speed sensitive wipers Delay-off headlights Outside temperature display Fully automatic headlights Tachometer Rear window defroster Headlight cleaning Trip computer Variably intermittent wipers

SAFETY AND SECURITY - Brake assist Electronic stability Dual front impact airbags Knee airbag Occupant sensing airbag Panic alarm Dual front side impact airbags Traction control Ignition disable ABS brakes Perimeter/approach

marcw 05-28-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdoran (Post 5217857)
My dealer in CT had a couple of other Z4s similarly discounted, worth checking their website too, or look in the "blowout prices" topic for a link to their ad.

I contacted them via their online contact form and got an email back from Stephen Zavatski Internet Sales Manager. He told me all of their '09s are gone. Not sure if this is true as their current add shows only two of the four '09s as sold. One of them your car. I was really interested in the orion silver version of your car as it comes with everything I want including heated seats. I send a message to Ed-CT, but he hasn't been back to that dealer since you got your car so I'm not sure if they were lying about the other two being sold as well.

-Marc

BlueZ4AZ 05-28-2010 10:14 AM

One way to analyse it...
The value for this same car USED, Privare Party, with 1000 miles on it Edmunds.com is $41 - $42k. We know most cars sell for a little less than this value. A used one might sell for $39k. Purchasing brand new from the dealer has some value, so tack back on $1k - $2k. Based on this analysis, the fair price of the new 2009 would be about $41k.

Another way to analyse it...
You've got to knock off about $5000 of extra depreciation from the purchase price since you would be buying this car some 10 months after others were buying it. That's $500/month of depreciation to deduct. Back 10 months ago when the car was first released, an average purchase price on a Z4 with an MSRP of $48k was maybe $44k - $45k. Just an educated guess. People got better deals, but this is just an average.

$44.5 - $5k = $39.5k

So, the value of this car is about $39.5k - 41k. Somewhere in that $1500 range

$10k off the MSRP of $48k seems like better than average deal if that is all the dealer will do.

erdoran 05-28-2010 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcw (Post 5218585)
I contacted them via their online contact form and got an email back from Stephen Zavatski Internet Sales Manager. He told me all of their '09s are gone. Not sure if this is true as their current add shows only two of the four '09s as sold. One of them your car. I was really interested in the orion silver version of your car as it comes with everything I want including heated seats. I send a message to Ed-CT, but he hasn't been back to that dealer since you got your car so I'm not sure if they were lying about the other two being sold as well.

-Marc

I've found them to be very honest and up front, at least with me, which is rare in a dealership. My guess is that Steve is telling the truth...never hurts to check, but I'll be surprised if he's lying, because, regardless of my personal experience, he has nothing to gain by it nor does the dealership.

marcw 05-28-2010 12:14 PM

Well it seems this dealer doesn't want to play ball. I have made it clear to them that I saw the $10k off as a starting point for negotiations. His reply was basically.. good luck and thanks for your interest in one of our vehicles. Oh well, the search continues.

-Marc

erdoran 05-28-2010 12:19 PM

exactly---keep ED in mind, you can really get good prices that way, you can order exactly what you want and you'll have current MY...meanwhile watch the board, who knows what deals will be posted!

marcw 05-28-2010 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdoran (Post 5218951)
exactly---keep ED in mind, you can really get good prices that way, you can order exactly what you want and you'll have current MY...meanwhile watch the board, who knows what deals will be posted!

Yeah I know about ED. I bought a 3 series that way back in 1999. And since I'm originally from Germany it gave me a way to visit with the folks too :)

Maybe Kuni wants to play ball on their 09 CPO.

-Marc

erdoran 05-28-2010 02:20 PM

Check out ebay, maybe that's a way to find other dealers with leftover '09s, and then you can email them to negotiate price!

rafale 05-29-2010 12:29 AM

Marc,

2 hours from Portland... I am guessing BMW of Eugene? I am with all the boys here. The asking price is too high. You can easily find better on the net. Even Kuni has a basic 30i for about 38k...

marcw 05-29-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafale (Post 5220236)
Marc,

2 hours from Portland... I am guessing BMW of Eugene? I am with all the boys here. The asking price is too high. You can easily find better on the net. Even Kuni has a basic 30i for about 38k...

Actually I was talking to Carrera Motors in Bend. I found a 30i in Cleveland for $10k off MSRP. However, buying out of state is always such a hassle for us because of the sales tax.

Jim Patterson 05-29-2010 02:08 PM

new 09 Z4
 
Marc: Both BMW of Salem and BMW of Eugene have new 09 Z4s( both black with red interior, stick, PP) The former gave us $10K off sticker price on the one we just bought (after we bargained hard); both might do the same for you. Eugene is a better, more professional, dealership, but go for the best price and take its warranty anywhere.

Jim 2006 X-3; 2009 Z4 PP, SP, heated seats, and more, black/black. New warranty. Love it!

Jim Patterson 05-29-2010 02:12 PM

new09
 
Or, Marc, spend $202 (RT fare) to fly PDX-DEN on Frontier, take van to Ralph Schomp BMW at Highlands Ranch, buy their stick Orion/black full warranty Z4, get CO transit sticker, drive it home, and register it in OR with no sales tax issues.

erdoran 05-29-2010 02:25 PM

Jim, if it's the '09 demo at schomp, that isn't anywhere close to $10k off! http://schomp-bmw.ebizautos.com/webd...px?iid=4544637

marcw 05-29-2010 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Patterson (Post 5221222)
Or, Marc, spend $202 (RT fare) to fly PDX-DEN on Frontier, take van to Ralph Schomp BMW at Highlands Ranch, buy their stick Orion/black full warranty Z4, get CO transit sticker, drive it home, and register it in OR with no sales tax issues.

Actually I was really excited about that particular car since it isn't black and has the cold weather package. I spoke with somebody down there yesterday, however Schomp is a no haggle dealership and the only price he was willing to give me for that car was $44970 a measly $7455 off MSRP. Not good enough. Since they don't haggle at all that was that unfortunately. The nice thing about that car is that is has not been punched and comes with full warranty.

-Marc

Jim Patterson 05-29-2010 04:01 PM

Car for Marc
 
OK Mea culpa. I hate no haggle dealerships, and won't deal with them. Unfortunately for you, the one at BMW Eugene doesn't even have heated seats, and it's black. But keep trying.

rafale 05-29-2010 11:02 PM

Here is one with the CWP and 10k off very close to you http://www.bmwportland.com/detail-20...d-5392533.html. I think it is a demo and has 5k miles on.

erdoran 05-30-2010 05:40 AM

:thumbdwn: Only has CWP, nothing else.

As you see a deal, compare it to what you could get a 2011 for via ED--if nothing else, that is a good yardstick to use. If you can get the SAME car, 2 yrs newer, for the same price with ED then why not do that?


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