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-   -   Is BMW fixing/improving production on the go? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503423)

blackhawk_pilot 12-05-2010 02:12 AM

Is BMW fixing/improving production on the go?
 
My car goes into production next Monday (week 49), and I can't help but wonder if their QC department is tweaking glitches that are being reported on the go, or do they just wait till next year to address these. I'm inclined to think that perhaps 30% of faults reported are due to people reading forums and looking too much into it, sort of an excuse at times to actually find something wrong (no matter how perfect a piece of equipment is, if you look hard enough you'll alway find a glitch).
So, should I expect my car to come my way with most of these glitches fixed from the factory or what?

sambb 12-05-2010 04:31 AM

I would consider delaying your order/cancelling until the 2012 model, which may see improvements in QC and sportiness.

tdepetra 12-05-2010 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot (Post 5672870)
My car goes into production next Monday (week 49), and I can't help but wonder if their QC department is tweaking glitches that are being reported on the go, or do they just wait till next year to address these. I'm inclined to think that perhaps 30% of faults reported are due to people reading forums and looking too much into it, sort of an excuse at times to actually find something wrong (no matter how perfect a piece of equipment is, if you look hard enough you'll alway find a glitch).
So, should I expect my car to come my way with most of these glitches fixed from the factory or what?

I think some problems were corrected with September builds. My 535 X drive was one of the first dozen or two made in September for USA shipment and has been a zero defect car after nearly 5,000 miles. It is a non-sport model.

blackhawk_pilot 12-05-2010 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sambb (Post 5672918)
I would consider delaying your order/cancelling until the 2012 model, which may see improvements in QC and sportiness.

WOW! Is the situation that bad????

pharding 12-05-2010 05:19 AM

No, it is not that bad. The September builds definitely have the steering issues fixed. The number of problems has been grossly over-stated IMO. BMW makes QC changes on a rolling basis. They take it as far as making changes at the VPC if a fix is identified to QC problem. BMW is extremely conscientious about addressing QC issues. I personally do not see how they could be better at doing this. This is one of the reasons that I buy BMW's. My fully optioned 550i has been problem free except for one minor problem. My car has comfort access and it had one bad sensor in the door handle. The fit and finish of my 550i has been amazing also. Including my constructive criticisms, I am extremely happy with my 550i. It is a great car today.

I personally believe that BMW will address Sports concerns. However the big question is "when?". I doubt that it would be at anything other than a model year change or possibly with the LCI. It may be never for the F10. Everything that BMW does is carefully evaluated and tested to the Nth Degree. They listen to what the auto magazines have to say and what BMW Enthusiasts post here and elsewhere. However ultimately they decide what is best and when to implement it. When the E60 came out there were many constructive criticisms along with the usual destructive criticisms. I was amazed at how many constructive criticisms were addressed with the F10. I am currently on BMW number 4 for me personally plus my son has a 330. I am amazed about BMW's commitment to quality control and customer satisfaction while building very innovative automobiles with the inherent risks that comes with that. Given the complexity of today's automobiles, in my opinion they are finest manufacturer of anything in the world. BMW is absolutely amazing.

kocsis 12-05-2010 06:18 AM

With all my carping and philosophizing, I agree with pharding. Great car today.

eyesight1 12-05-2010 06:52 AM

I am awaiting my first BMW to be delivered in January in SC. I have read all the threads on this forum and others and firmly believe that Pharding is absolutely correct. I have moved to BMW for the inherent characteristics of the car itself as well as BMW's fantastic reputation among those who know and understand cars. Read or listen to the evaluation of the new 5 series in Automobile Magazine. So, yes, BMW makes necessary changes along the way. We will all love and completely enjoy our cars. Of course as with any complex machine there may be a small glitch or two, but BMW will strive 100% to make it right.

That said, I am one who is looking forward to the F10 and its more luxury character than some of you want. I have a Corvette to play with in the warmer months. The F10 will be a daily driver and a car to take on long trips with my wife. I want excellent handling and reasonable performance. The 535i X drive I ordered will fit my needs perfectly. So, to me, it is the sweet spot that other brands have not found. Others are either too soft or too much like a race car.

mujjuman 12-05-2010 07:32 AM

F10 would be a great hwy cruiser

jsf1993 12-05-2010 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyesight1 (Post 5673119)
I am awaiting my first BMW to be delivered in January in SC. I have read all the threads on this forum and others and firmly believe that Pharding is absolutely correct. I have moved to BMW for the inherent characteristics of the car itself as well as BMW's fantastic reputation among those who know and understand cars. Read or listen to the evaluation of the new 5 series in Automobile Magazine. So, yes, BMW makes necessary changes along the way. We will all love and completely enjoy our cars. Of course as with any complex machine there may be a small glitch or two, but BMW will strive 100% to make it right.

That said, I am one who is looking forward to the F10 and its more luxury character than some of you want. I have a Corvette to play with in the warmer months. The F10 will be a daily driver and a car to take on long trips with my wife. I want excellent handling and reasonable performance. The 535i X drive I ordered will fit my needs perfectly. So, to me, it is the sweet spot that other brands have not found. Others are either too soft or too much like a race car.

As a 2011 535i X-drive owner, I am completely confident that you'll be thrilled with your new car. It's a fantastic automobile and my car has been problem free from day 1. By the way, it was built during the week of September 20.

schnell525 12-05-2010 11:25 AM

i had a new 2010 MB E350 that i was not happy with. first year models always have problems, and my MB was not living up to expectations, so it went away.

i looked heavily at getting an F10 a couple months ago--great car. but, having come off a first model with problems, i decided that i didn't want to jump back in. i think the 2012 models should have the kinks ironed out. first year roll out betas are just turning out to be too much of a headache IMO.

markl53 12-05-2010 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schnell525 (Post 5673608)
i had a new 2010 MB E350 that i was not happy with. first year models always have problems, and my MB was not living up to expectations, so it went away.

i looked heavily at getting an F10 a couple months ago--great car. but, having come off a first model with problems, i decided that i didn't want to jump back in. i think the 2012 models should have the kinks ironed out. first year roll out betas are just turning out to be too much of a headache IMO.

My base 535i was built on 8/17. The only issue I had was a slightly mis-aligned sunroof panel and funny, the horns needed to be replaced -- it's going in to swap them out next week. Absolutely zero problems otherwise so far and I don't expect any.

Could it be your MB just wan't the car you thought it would be? I found it underwhelming when I test drove it. Quiet ride but seriousy underperforming in relation to the F10, IMO

GHOST PROTOCOL 12-05-2010 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsf1993 (Post 5673306)
As a 2011 535i X-drive owner, I am completely confident that you'll be thrilled with your new car. It's a fantastic automobile and my car has been problem free from day 1. By the way, it was built during the week of September 20.

+1 Week 37 build 535i x drive.

B-1 Pilot 12-05-2010 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sambb (Post 5672918)
I would consider delaying your order/cancelling until the 2012 model, which may see improvements in QC and sportiness.

Seriously WTF? It's one thing to keep espousing your view (one that is not shared in its extreme by anyone else on this forum)
its another to tell a guy he should cancel his order... you are just trying to cause problems, and its disgusting.


Blackhawk, check out the reviews from people who have owned the car for 1000-4000 miles and read their reviews... All but the a couple with the unfortunate DHP-ARS block issue are very, very happy with their cars.

Most of the valuable critiques come from what I would call "BMW Advocates." People who know the brand well, know how to drive well, and can give objective praise and criticism. These people give great reviews because they not only appreciate the good in the vehicle, but can also see areas for future improvement.

The other thing I look at as what car they are coming from... last version 5 owners inevitably have some reason to not like the new one (when the true reason is usually centered around their pocketbook), and 3-series owners find the F10 too big.

Remember that your car come with a robust warranty, your in Germany (I assume), and all that really matters is if it fits you:thumbup:

marin222 12-05-2010 02:57 PM

I wonder if SAMBB even owns a BMW? I find it very irritating to have anyone tell another member to cancel their order. This is my first BMW and I ordered the car 4 weeks ago 535i fully loaded with all the options in Graphite. After ordering I read the posts and have been astonished by the repeats of the same complaints. Those that are constantly complaining should stay off the forum and just not buy the car. NO CAR WILL BE PERFECT. Every car has pros and cons and from what I can tell the car is almost there on everything. It might not have the drive that some sport enthusiasts want so they should either setlle for all of the other positives or go shop for another car. Let's give it a break. For a new member like me I find it amazing that there is so much focus on some of the weaknesses over and over and over again.....

markl53 12-05-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marin222 (Post 5673916)
I wonder if SAMBB even owns a BMW> I find it very irritating to have anyone tell another member to cancel their order.

Sambb does not own an F10, he states that a "family member" has one. I'm not sure what his agenda is, but it is becoming a nuisance. Is constant thread disruption a cause for banishment from the forums?

dunccfp 12-05-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot (Post 5672954)
WOW! Is the situation that bad????

No it's an uninformed remark.

eyesight1 12-05-2010 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marin222 (Post 5673916)
I wonder if SAMBB even owns a BMW? I find it very irritating to have anyone tell another member to cancel their order. This is my first BMW and I ordered the car 4 weeks ago 535i fully loaded with all the options in Graphite. After ordering I read the posts and have been astonished by the repeats of the same complaints. Those that are constantly complaining should stay off the forum and just not buy the car. NO CAR WILL BE PERFECT. Every car has pros and cons and from what I can tell the car is almost there on everything. It might not have the drive that some sport enthusiasts want so they should either setlle for all of the other positives or go shop for another car. Let's give it a break. For a new member like me I find it amazing that there is so much focus on some of the weaknesses over and over and over again.....

We are on exactly the same page. A constructive discussion of an issue with a detailed description to see if others have the same experience and possible solutions is positive. Continually whining is negative and not really worth reading.

marin222 12-05-2010 03:50 PM

I am in full agreement. If he reads this thread I would like to put him on notice that his remarks are not appreciated and if he wants to whine about the car go elsewhere. If he has some constructive thing to say then say it and move on.

tdepetra 12-05-2010 04:44 PM

I can't read SAMBB's posts anymore. My 535Xi has been flawless. I'll be doing a detailed 5,000 mile review soon.

GHOST PROTOCOL 12-05-2010 05:13 PM

Sambb admitted on another thread that he does not own an F10, however, he claims that a family member (he does not state the nature of the relationship) owns an F10 which he further claims to have driven over 700 miles (doubtful unless it is his wife). I feel that this calls into question the credibility of the negative commentary that he is continuously making.

I also find it disappointing that Sambb is attempting to define "Buick" as meaning something negative. Not all of us have the means to afford an F10. For example, my dad, who worked very hard during his life, expended a great deal of his resources on me, which enabled me to become a self employed attorney. While I can afford an F10, my dad can not. Instead, my dad has purchased many Buick vehicles during his life time and he has enjoyed driving them. I have also ridden in my dad's vehicles. There is nothing wrong or negative about owning and driving a Buick.

SANguru 12-05-2010 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl53 (Post 5673937)
Sambb does not own an F10, he states that a "family member" has one. I'm not sure what his agenda is, but it is becoming a nuisance. Is constant thread disruption a cause for banishment from the forums?

I'm not sure if he's even old enough to drive by himself. Typical troll. :confused:

sambb 12-05-2010 07:10 PM

It is common to have 1st year glitches, nothing wrong with pointing that out - has been done on several cars over several forums here! MY 335i is an '07 and I am still struggling with the HPFP which i had hoped was just a first year issue. I do think BMW gets it right over time however, for example: SMG leaks, etc. early on.

sambb 12-05-2010 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot (Post 5672954)
WOW! Is the situation that bad????

Well, I dont know for sure, only BMW knows. But there are lots of issues in cars (generally) in the first year. Dont know if it applies to the f10.
I also would anticipate that BMW will respond to the sports sedan issue, based on reviews by car and driver and consumer reports of the f10.
Based on these 2 things, one may want to reconsider the car. On the other hand, if you really like the car, then you may be the ideal target and you should buy (provided you dont get scared off by first year model year issues).
One could also consider a short term lease, so one is not committed to the car. There are options.

I have driven the f10 about 700 miles, the longest stretch was a 350 mile highway drive. Haven;t had reliability issues in my family member's car, except some steering grind, which we haven't really gone to the dealer for.

nosnoop 12-05-2010 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot (Post 5672954)
WOW! Is the situation that bad????

No, it is not bad at all.
And you can pretty much ignore whatever sambb posted here or in any other threads.

sambb 12-05-2010 07:18 PM

Well, we dont have any data on how bad it is actually, but we do know that BMW quality ha slipped. I am not sure that there are stats on the f10 reliability, but there certainly have been problems reported here from steering, to pulling right, to grinding, and of course the handling issues as well. Those have been reported by others, not me.


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