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-   -   What's with the E60 Rear Turn Signals? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=521358)

bimmerstien 02-20-2011 05:39 PM

What's with the E60 Rear Turn Signals?
 
Had the CPO two weeks and the left turn signal clicks triple-time. I get a bulb symbol on the I-Drive that says left rear turn signal malfunction and sometime I get a break light malfunction.

I pulled the felt liner out and removed the bulb cluster but couldn't figure out how to get to the turn signal section I saw three torx screws and figured they probably had to be removed. I put the bulb cluster back in and the problem went away.

Is there a lamp socket or wiring harness problem these cars are known to have? Everything looked clean to me; no corrosion.

BTW, how do you get to the rear signal light section where the LED's are?

Nube1kenobi 02-22-2011 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerstien (Post 5863059)
Is there a lamp socket or wiring harness problem these cars are known to have?

I had the same issue before except on the opposite side. All the bulbs were good but the connector shell was burnt due to sparking and arcing on the brown and white wire terminal - very high resistance, possibly just barely making contact. The dealer replaced both the male and female connector shell and all is well again. Keep an eye on your issue. Mine started with the turn signal failure, then brake, then reverse light... they kept cycling all over. When I looked, the connector was toast and that brown/white terminal was loose (possibly bad insertion) and burnt. You would think that somethng like that would pop a fuse but never did... and all the bulbs were good.

bimmerstien 02-22-2011 10:32 AM

That's exactly what's happening. I called and made an appointment. I printed out your reply to show the service department in case its new to them or if they can't duplicate the problem.

Thanks.

ArtchredTTU 02-22-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerstien (Post 5863059)
Had the CPO two weeks and the left turn signal clicks triple-time. I get a bulb symbol on the I-Drive that says left rear turn signal malfunction and sometime I get a break light malfunction.

I pulled the felt liner out and removed the bulb cluster but couldn't figure out how to get to the turn signal section I saw three torx screws and figured they probably had to be removed. I put the bulb cluster back in and the problem went away.

Is there a lamp socket or wiring harness problem these cars are known to have? Everything looked clean to me; no corrosion.

BTW, how do you get to the rear signal light section where the LED's are?

Wait i have a question???!!!!! When you press gently on the turn signal, is it suppose to click 3 times?? Like when your changing lanes?? I have to hold mine down or else it clicks once.. If that isn't ok I will take it to the dealer asap!

MRV99 02-22-2011 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtchredTTU (Post 5867574)
Wait i have a question???!!!!! When you press gently on the turn signal, is it suppose to click 3 times?? Like when your changing lanes?? I have to hold mine down or else it clicks once.. If that isn't ok I will take it to the dealer asap!

There is an option in the Idrive which allows you to turn on/off the three blink option for changing lanes. I would bet you don't have it turned on. I believe it is under the lighting section.

Fatespawn 12-24-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nube1kenobi (Post 5866594)
Mine started with the turn signal failure, then brake, then reverse light... they kept cycling all over. When I looked, the connector was toast and that brown/white terminal was loose (possibly bad insertion) and burnt. You would think that somethng like that would pop a fuse but never did... and all the bulbs were good.

Humorous. Mine started with an Engine Malfunction.... well not really I assume, but that's what happened yesterday. Was out driving and got the Engine Malfunction... Reduced power. Bummer, really was looking forward to the Christmas road trip. Anyway, I call the dealer and let them know I'm on my way... limping. Exiting the interstate, I signal right - another chime! Right Rear turn signal malfunction... *expletive* On my way down the ramp I press the brake pedal - another chime! Right Brake Light malfunction *expletive with laugh*. Then when I get to the dealer I pull into the wrong spot, have to back up and.... Right Reverse light malfunction *laugh*.

At least it all happened on the way to the dealer. I'm driving a sweet bare bones 328i now that can't go across state lines. It's like I have another ankle bracelet.

Nube1kenobi 12-24-2011 12:56 PM

Merry Christmas!

It's like I have another ankle bracelet.

Did not know what to make of that last... another one?

Fatespawn 12-25-2011 10:48 AM

Just trying to keep my spirits up! Off we go on the road trip in the minivan :(

bimmerstien 12-26-2011 09:21 PM

I had the same problem with my pre-owned certified two weeks after purchasing it, and three mos or so, after that. Each time they had to replace the wiring harness.

The problem is that BMW is using dissimilar metals between the male and female connectors and they corrode each other. When this happens the current has to fight to get to ground and the result of this is "heat". Similar to using aluminum wires on a wall receptacle with copper or brass terminals.

I told the SA this but for some reason the Electrical Engineers at BMW are not getting it.

ronmexico 02-28-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nube1kenobi (Post 5866594)
I had the same issue before except on the opposite side. All the bulbs were good but the connector shell was burnt due to sparking and arcing on the brown and white wire terminal - very high resistance, possibly just barely making contact. The dealer replaced both the male and female connector shell and all is well again. Keep an eye on your issue. Mine started with the turn signal failure, then brake, then reverse light... they kept cycling all over. When I looked, the connector was toast and that brown/white terminal was loose (possibly bad insertion) and burnt. You would think that somethng like that would pop a fuse but never did... and all the bulbs were good.


I just had this problem bite my right side. Just like you said, the harness (female) part is melted, and 2 of the leads are loose.

One of them is the "Brown" the other looks like the brown/white you allude to

No way I'm letting the dealer fix this, no telling how much they charge. I'm certain I could do this myself but I have 2 questions:

1) I saw in another thread you mentioned one of these problematic leads is the ground. Which one? Could I just break that one lead out of the harness and ground it somewhere in the trunk?

2) Am I going to have this same problem on the driver's side? Anything I can do to prevent it?

Nube1kenobi 02-28-2012 06:24 PM

The brown wire; you can break it out or bypass the connector as some have done. Remember that bulb still need ground.

ronmexico 02-29-2012 09:14 AM

I guess you mean to say that if I remove the brown wire from the harness, to be sure I ground it, and not leave it free?

I'm kind of confused by the 2nd part "bulb needs ground" . Would grounding the brown wire separate from the harness still require I ground the bulb assembly somehow?

Nube1kenobi 02-29-2012 09:53 PM

Here you go...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=22

dbond698 02-09-2013 03:49 PM

Ran into a similar issue with my '04 545. I had to remove the front right headlight assembly to replace the angel eye bulb which was quite the PITA. About a day after fixed, I had the right turn signal malfunction error and the hyperactive signal inside. I had read about the bad connection so removed the headlight unit once again (pleasure) and removed both wire connections. I sprayed both (female and male ends) with electronic parts cleaner and worked them back and forth (plugging together) to work out any corrosion that might exist. After wiping the residual cleaner and letting them dry for awhile, I plugged them back together and tested it out - all working! We'll see how long it lasts but had been malfunctioning 2 days straight before.

jim165 02-09-2013 10:59 PM

Just had the reverse lamp bulb out error error today and hastily checked the bulb holder and harness, praying that it had not caused any damage. Bulb was fine and the bulb holder and harness were pristine on both sides. I'm assuming this is the beginning of the grounding issues, so being proactive, I'm going to install a ground wire tomorrow!

2chill 02-09-2013 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim165 (Post 7371520)
Just had the reverse lamp bulb out error error today and hastily checked the bulb holder and harness, praying that it had not caused any damage. Bulb was fine and the bulb holder and harness were pristine on both sides. I'm assuming this is the beginning of the grounding issues, so being proactive, I'm going to install a ground wire tomorrow!

Before you do all that, why don't you just try changing the bulb first? The bulb may have started working again when you opened up everything...

jim165 02-10-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2chill (Post 7371569)
Before you do all that, why don't you just try changing the bulb first? The bulb may have started working again when you opened up everything...

Changed both bulbs but didn't have a chance to drive the car to see if the errors will come back. I just don't want my harness or tail lights destroyed by this fault, so just to be on the safe side I went ahead and supplemented the ground wire. Only cost $14 and 5 minutes of my time...

[IMG]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps7d475de1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psdbe1e490.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psb8e9150f.jpg[/IMG]

HPIA4v2 02-11-2013 07:50 AM

Yeah this problem seems to be on all older BMWs. I just take the bulb holder and put a thin layer of solder and it always fix it. overtime the bulb holder looses spring tension and contacts point develop oxidation, enough to create this problem.

German Steel 02-25-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim165 (Post 7372656)

Hey Jim....It looks like your contact points for your ground are on your car's body and then to a splice into the brown ground wire .

To take the load off of the brown wire ground circuit, I think you need to rig a ground from the car body to a new ground point on the rear light fixture ( not splice a new ground to the same old brown wire).

I think that is what I see in uour pics, forgive me if my vision is distorted. :dunno:

I am going to rig a supplemental ground wire from the car body to a ground point on the rear light fixture to prevent too much current from running throught the brown wire ground circuit.

jim165 02-26-2013 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by German Steel (Post 7404803)
Hey Jim....It looks like your contact points for your ground are on your car's body and then to a splice into the brown ground wire .

To take the load off of the brown wire ground circuit, I think you need to rig a ground from the car body to a new ground point on the rear light fixture ( not splice a new ground to the same old brown wire).

I think that is what I see in uour pics, forgive me if my vision is distorted. :dunno:

I am going to rig a supplemental ground wire from the car body to a ground point on the rear light fixture to prevent too much current from running throught the brown wire ground circuit.

Yes, that is the way it is connected...ground wire spliced to another wire that is grounded to the body. I was following the method that the e46 guys were using in the link above, but we don't have a ground tab on our light fixture. I was afraid attach to any of the many metal points in the bulb holder for fear of damaging something so I grounded it to the body. Something's working because I don't have anymore bulb or lamp errors...seems like its still relieving that wire of some of the current.

German Steel 02-26-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim165 (Post 7405711)
Yes, that is the way it is connected...ground wire spliced to another wire that is grounded to the body. I was following the method that the e46 guys were using in the link above, but we don't have a ground tab on our light fixture. I was afraid attach to any of the many metal points in the bulb holder for fear of damaging something so I grounded it to the body. Something's working because I don't have anymore bulb or lamp errors...seems like its still relieving that wire of some of the current.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...59&postcount=5

The proper way to hook it up is per above link's pics where the brown wire gets an extra connection point to the light fixture. Too bad if you do not have tabs on the light fixture to attach the brown ground splice to. You are gonna have to fiqure how to attach new contact point on fixture if not.

When the weather improves I'll be pulling my tailamp fixture to look for a tab on my 08 535xi Otherwise I'm gonna have to fiqure......

ntocamping 02-26-2013 02:11 PM

Would an issue like this be covered by the CPO?

jim165 02-27-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by German Steel (Post 7406362)
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...59&postcount=5

The proper way to hook it up is per above link's pics where the brown wire gets an extra connection point to the light fixture. Too bad if you do not have tabs on the light fixture to attach the brown ground splice to. You are gonna have to fiqure how to attach new contact point on fixture if not.

When the weather improves I'll be pulling my tailamp fixture to look for a tab on my 08 535xi Otherwise I'm gonna have to fiqure......

Well, when you figure out where to attach the additional ground on the fixture, let us know:) I'm not randomly attaching it to any points on the light fixture and running the risk of shorting something out without knowing for sure the ground point is correct.
Your fixture is just like mine, so good luck finding that grounding tab...

NoQuarter 02-27-2013 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntocamping (Post 7406379)
Would an issue like this be covered by the CPO?

My SA seemed to act like it was "questionable" initially but retracted that and repaired mine with the $50 deductible.

NoQuarter 02-27-2013 10:35 AM

This is not some sort of current/amperage problem where a new wire is providing ability to carry more current. If it were a current problem the wire would show it and not a disintegration of the much more current capable metal contact spade plug.


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