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-   -   What engine combinations are known to work in the E39 when the need arises to replace (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526617)

bluebee 03-13-2011 08:39 PM

What engine combinations are known to work in the E39 when the need arises to replace
 
I'm trying to collect, for future users with a suspected blown 'engine', what options they have ...

One option, is to replace the entire engine, as eloquently stated by cn90 here:
- Anyone have info/advice for DIY head gasket repair on 2003 525i E39?

Once they decide to 'replace' the engine (as opposed to fixing it as stated here) ...
- My E39 overheated & I need a new head gasket (1)

They then have the option of 'upgrading' to a different engine.

So the question arises, which upgrades are practical?

bluebee 03-13-2011 08:40 PM

This response to that question is a great start in providing details as to what engine upgrades are feasible in a typical E39 'blown-engine' scenario:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmys 530i (Post 5915701)
I have installed a 3.0 into a 525i. I used the existing intake manifold, exhaust manifold, etc and it worked just fine. If you want to use the 3.0 accessories, you will have to buy a lot of extra parts like airbox, maf, engine computer, and align the DME to the key so it will start.
Here is a list of what can be done without a problem to the e39

1999-2000 323i e46 to 2001-2003 525i
2001-2005 325i e46 to 2001-2003 525i
1998-2001 Z3 2.3i e36/7 to 2001-2003 525i
2004-2005 525i to 2001-2003 525i

1999-2000 328i e46 to 1999-2000 528i

1996-1998 328i e36 to 1997-1998 528i

2001-2005 330i e46 to 2001-2003 530i
1999-2006 X5 e53 3.0i to 2001-2003 530i
2001-2002 Z3 e36/7 3.0i to 2001-2003 530i
2004-2005 530i e60 to 2001-2003 530i

2000-2003 X5 e53 4.4i to 1999-2003 540i
1999-2001 740i e38 to 1999-2003 540i

You can upgrade your engine, but you cannot easily go from single VANOS to dual VANOS, you have to stay with what you have. If you have a 2001 525i, you can upgrade to a 3.0, but you have to use all of your existing 2.5 accessories if you do not want to go with the hassle of getting your DME aligned to your key.

If you have a 528i, you cannot really upgrade unless you swap over the wiring, engine computer, transmission, transmission computer, and get the electronics aligned to your car. It is doable, but not really worth it.


bluebee 03-13-2011 08:57 PM

Over here, is some engine swap information (M52B20->M52B25) ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takechan (Post 5915238)
I'm in the middle of preparing for an engine swap (M52B20->M52B25).

As i'm going to replace the VCG (it's kinda leaky) i'm not sure if I should do this before or after i've swapped the engine. While it's easier before installing the new engine, i'm afraid the hoist if lifted from engine hook (near vanos) will stress the gasket/seal?

Oh and another thing, the rear diff is 3,46 now but the engine came from a 523 that supposed has 3,23 or in special cases (3,46) - what would it mean if I drove around with a 3,43 ratio (higher) than normal spec? I assume revs / speed will be unchanged?


franka 03-13-2011 09:22 PM

www.bavengine.com is another alternative.

Jimmys 530i 03-14-2011 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franka (Post 5916194)
www.bavengine.com is another alternative.

That's weird, they do not have any of the newer style engines like the 3.0 or the 2.5, they only have the 2.8.

Mack 03-14-2011 03:47 PM

Interesting thread. I was wondering the other day if my engine blew how hard it would be to have a shop toss in a 3.0? Probably better just to stay with a 2.5 though.

pleiades 03-14-2011 03:55 PM

Does the transmission type of the donor/recipient car matter at all? Do they need to be identical?

franka 03-14-2011 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmys 530i (Post 5917879)
That's weird, they do not have any of the newer style engines like the 3.0 or the 2.5, they only have the 2.8.

I have spoke with them in the past about other issues. I can't comment on what you call newer style. How new could it be in an E39? Maybe you meant size?

Call them and ask, they are friendly and can answer all your questions. Mack's and Pleiade's questions too.

Jimmys 530i 03-14-2011 06:23 PM

Oh, I should have been more clear. I did not see any engines for the 2001+ used or rebuilt. I will call them soon, I have another customer with a 330i that overheated the heck out of his engine. He drove until the engine hydro locked from water getting inside the cylinders.

franka 03-14-2011 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmys 530i (Post 5918420)
Oh, I should have been more clear. I did not see any engines for the 2001+ used or rebuilt. I will call them soon, I have another customer with a 330i that overheated the heck out of his engine. He drove until the engine hydro locked from water getting inside the cylinders.

Hydrolock happens almost instantaneously when water gets into the intake system and then into a cylinder. Since water is not compressible the engine stops immediately. If the revs were very slow at the time, and the water was from an external source, the engine may not be damaged. If it happend at speed then there is probably a bent rod or more like a bent crank and a broken piston head.

If the coolant broke into the cylinder, by any path, and at higher rpms, then the engine is toast. But this is very unusual for hdro lock

Are you sure it was hydrolocked? Maybe what happened was that the cooling system lost water and the engine got so hot that it seized. That means that the piston and cylider walls welded themselves together. It you are driving the car it will slow before is seizes. If that is what happened the engine is also probably toast. But it can be rebuilt.

Seizing and hydrolocking are two different failure models. Both invole water (or coolant with 50% water)

reb78 03-15-2011 02:40 AM

When speaking to garages when i thought my head gasket had definately failed, the reccomended replacement for my 528 engine was a 525 engine. I was told that it would bolt straight to my current auto box and not require a change in ECU - apparently that only needed to be changed if you increase capacity of the engine. I've no idea if this is accurate, just what i was told by a BMW indy on the phone.

Jimmys 530i 03-15-2011 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franka (Post 5918935)
Hydrolock happens almost instantaneously when water gets into the intake system and then into a cylinder. Since water is not compressible the engine stops immediately. If the revs were very slow at the time, and the water was from an external source, the engine may not be damaged. If it happend at speed then there is probably a bent rod or more like a bent crank and a broken piston head.

If the coolant broke into the cylinder, by any path, and at higher rpms, then the engine is toast. But this is very unusual for hdro lock

Are you sure it was hydrolocked? Maybe what happened was that the cooling system lost water and the engine got so hot that it seized. That means that the piston and cylider walls welded themselves together. It you are driving the car it will slow before is seizes. If that is what happened the engine is also probably toast. But it can be rebuilt.

Seizing and hydrolocking are two different failure models. Both invole water (or coolant with 50% water)

The head gasket blew, and a lot of water got inside the cylinder, and bent the rods like pretzels. Not only that, there are visible cracks on the cylinder head and the block is also warped with the threads pulled out. I tore down the engine about 3 weeks ago, and the customer decided to go with a new engine since his will take a lot of work to repair.

reb78, what year is your car? If it is a 1999-2000, it may be possible. I have never done or heard of anybody doing that swap.

reb78 03-15-2011 04:13 AM

Yep. Mine is a 1999. I was dubious about the swap TBH as i think it will make the insurance more difficult and the car harder to sell at a later date. Much better to replace with a good 2.8 (i.e. one with a warranty) and ensure that the cooling system is good so the problems dont recurr!

Jimmys 530i 03-15-2011 04:18 AM

Interesting, why take out a 2.8 and put in a 2.5 which is a smaller engine and has less power. I would stick with the 2.8 since that would be downgrading your car. If anything, why not a 3.0? If a 2.5 will fit, a 3.0 will too, the two engines are very similar.

reb78 03-15-2011 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmys 530i (Post 5919169)
Interesting, why take out a 2.8 and put in a 2.5 which is a smaller engine and has less power. I would stick with the 2.8 since that would be downgrading your car. If anything, why not a 3.0? If a 2.5 will fit, a 3.0 will too, the two engines are very similar.

They were probably trying to flog me whatever they had in stock! I agree though - at least upgrade!

The reason they gave me was that the 2.5 was 'bulletproof' - their words....i dont know if thats true. They gave me the impression that the 2.5 rarely went wrong.

GSXRYDER 03-15-2011 07:15 AM

try?
 
Any Car Part

franka 03-15-2011 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reb78 (Post 5919285)
The reason they gave me was that the 2.5 was 'bulletproof' - their words....i dont know if thats true. They gave me the impression that the 2.5 rarely went wrong.

I'm not a six guy but maybe its is true that there are less problems with the 2.5. 'Bullet proof' maybe be a bit too strong a word for any BMW six with the head gasket problems and all. Then again many engines that are well taken care of have no problems. That statements may bring the house down on me. Fire suit on.

Maybe some that can speak with authority will comment and give us all the straight dope. Where's Mr Bluebee?

Mack 03-15-2011 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franka (Post 5919483)
I'm not a six guy but maybe its is true than there are less problems with the 2.5.

Maybe some that can speak with authority will comment.

I have heard the same from a few BMW indy's here in town. I'm at almost 160k now and it feels as strong or stronger than it did when I bought it with 80k on it. Stronger because of the upgrades I guess. Not as strong as a v8 though :D

edjack 03-31-2011 10:13 AM

franka,

bluebee is a Ms.

doru 03-31-2011 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franka (Post 5916194)
www.bavengine.com is another alternative.

Hello Frank.
Those guys claim you need to adjust the valves every 15 k miles and replace the timing belt every 50 k miles.
Our cars have chains, how serious are these guys? If they mean the chain - I am not sure about that.
Also, maybe the valves need adjustment every so often, but I never heard anyone doing it except when they rebuild an engine.
What's your take on this?

granlund 03-31-2011 11:03 AM

They are probably referring to the M20 engine of 80's vintage.

Shires 03-31-2011 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mack (Post 5918068)
Interesting thread. I was wondering the other day if my engine blew how hard it would be to have a shop toss in a 3.0? Probably better just to stay with a 2.5 though.

If it has a manual transmission you'd also need a gearbox, ancillaries (shift linkage, airbox, MAF etc) and driveshaft.

On the other hand a 2.2 engine would drop straight into a 525i and vice versa. ;)

Jimmys 530i 03-31-2011 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shires (Post 5961095)
If it has a manual transmission you'd also need a gearbox, ancillaries (shift linkage, airbox, MAF etc) and driveshaft.

On the other hand a 2.2 engine would drop straight into a 525i and vice versa. ;)

I have done a 2.5 to 3.0 swap before. I have actually used the existing accessories, and it works great, no codes. However, it is best to go ahead and get the bigger maf, intake, airbox, and computer. Everything else is the same. The manual gearbox is the same from a Z3 2.3i to a 530i, as long as it is a 6 cylinder, it will work. You can even put a 6 speed transmission from a e46 330i ZHP in as long as you can get the driveshaft to work.

franka 04-05-2011 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doru (Post 5960997)
Hello Frank.
Those guys claim you need to adjust the valves every 15 k miles and replace the timing belt every 50 k miles.
Our cars have chains, how serious are these guys? If they mean the chain - I am not sure about that.
Also, maybe the valves need adjustment every so often, but I never heard anyone doing it except when they rebuild an engine.
What's your take on this?

Someones got their wires crossed up. Bav has done a lot of engines and knows whats up and whats down.

bluebee 04-05-2011 05:04 PM

For the cross-link record, this thread today has some interesting information:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > --Engine swap--


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