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-   -   Replaced oil pan gasket (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532166)

Mudbone 04-04-2011 01:38 PM

Replaced oil pan gasket
 
I did it! I changed my oil pan gasket w/o dropping the sub-frame or lifting the motor. I had to cut the gasket to get it in.
I ran the motor for a little while yesterday. NO LEAKS. But time will tell!!
Iíll keep you posted whether it leaks or not.
It was not that difficult of a job. It would be much easier on a lift instead of rolling around underneath on a creeper with only a couple of inches of head room.
I spend most of the time studying where to cut the gasket in order to (1) be able to get it in and (2) have it in a position where it was accessible enough to get a good dose of gasket maker around the cut lines.

bobdmac 04-04-2011 01:47 PM

Nice going. This could save a lot of people (I6 owners--I get to gloat for a moment) a lot of time and pain. Where did you cut it?

edjack 04-04-2011 02:25 PM

The only downside is that you were unable to inspect the bottom of the pan for dead mice, etc.

cn90 04-04-2011 03:19 PM

Hey Mudbone,

So it was worth the $28 experiment, correct LOL?
I had a STRONG conviction that this would work and this was exactly what I suggested to Mudbone to do.
And Mudbone proved it.
Did you have to move the Steering Rack or not?
Any pictures?


------
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdmac (Post 5970754)
Nice going. This could save a lot of people (I6 owners--I get to gloat for a moment) a lot of time and pain. Where did you cut it?

bobdmac,

The issue of where to cut the oil pan gasket was discussed in this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=527228

This was the location that I suggested "Mudbone" to cut:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...hmentid=272291

bobdmac 04-04-2011 03:23 PM

I remember that discussion, cn90, and as I recall, you originally suggested cutting in a different location, but Mudbone didn't say whether he followed your above suggestion.

bluebee 04-04-2011 03:51 PM

Here is the thread that precipitated this wonderful ground-breaking teamwork (cn90 & Mudbone) solution:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Who has replaced their oil pan gasket?

Since this is such a quantum leap in our knowledge, I'm adding this link to the bestlinks because it's the first proof of concept (although ... we really need some pictures of the gasket cut, the gasket with the sealant on it, and the method of 'wriggling' the gasket into place).

- How to identify & fix an oil filter housing (OFH) leak (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to identify an oil pan gasket leak (1) & how to remove & replace the E39 V8 oil pan gasket (1) (2) or the E39 I6 oil pan gasket (1) (2) & hints how to replace the rigid metalized I6 oil pan gasket without removing the subframe (1) (2) & if you do remove the subframe, how to build or buy your own hoist & engine-support tools (1) (2) & how to fix broken or stripped oil drain pan plug bolt threads (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18)

Mudbone 04-05-2011 06:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by cn90 (Post 5971036)
Hey Mudbone,

So it was worth the $28 experiment, correct LOL?
I had a STRONG conviction that this would work and this was exactly what I suggested to Mudbone to do.
And Mudbone proved it.
Did you have to move the Steering Rack or not?
Any pictures?


------


bobdmac,

The issue of where to cut the oil pan gasket was discussed in this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=527228

This was the location that I suggested "Mudbone" to cut:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...hmentid=272291


Whether it was worth it or not will only be answered through time!
Day 2 no leaks!
I did not remove the steering rack. It would have been easier if I had. But I weighed that effort against what good might be gained, and decide to not.
I didn't take any pictures.
i have marked up your picture from your previous post to illustrate where I cut the gasket. I cut it at the green lines.
The harmonic balancer in the front and bell housing in the rear create a problem for getting the new gasket in.

cn90 04-05-2011 07:51 AM

Mudbone,

Thanks for the update. I can assure you that you will have no leak for the next 80K miles. This is because my Volvo oil pan gasket uses what Volvo called "liquid gasket" (basically similar to RTV gasket), and at 110K no leak at all.

I think your fix is a permanent fix.

BTW, let's say you already cut the gasket and know what to do, how long did it take you?
1h or 2h?

Mudbone 04-05-2011 08:08 AM

I believe I could do it again in 2 hrs including raising and lower the car and cleaning up.
If I had access to a lift, I could do it in an hour (not including the note below).

However, if I were to do it again, I would drain the oil the night before and let it continue to drain through the night. That "little bit" of oil that just kept creeping onto the gasket surface was aggravating.

cn90 04-05-2011 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudbone (Post 5972599)
I believe I could do it again in 2 hrs including raising and lower the car and cleaning up.
If I had access to a lift, I could do it in an hour (not including the note below).

However, if I were to do it again, I would drain the oil the night before and let it continue to drain through the night. That "little bit" of oil that just kept creeping onto the gasket surface was aggravating.

Build a wood ramp (using 2x10 lumber, about $10 in cost at Home Depot etc.), as in this Oil Change thread, you will save so much time from jacking up and down etc.
Simply drive it up and down the wood ramps!

DIY: E39 Changing engine oil made simple (how to do it in 30 minutes and not crying!)
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=459141

Mudbone 04-05-2011 09:51 AM

I've done that. That is not high enough to roll around underneath on a creeper. I had my jack stands at their highest level and would love to have had another foot!!

cn90 04-05-2011 10:14 AM

Ahhh,

I drive the car up the ramp and slide myself on top of a cardboard (the UPS shipping box stuff) on concrete floor.
The creeper itself adds height to it (probably another 5-6 inches in height) and that is why I don't use it.
This is why I slide under on top of a cardboard LOL.

bluebee 04-05-2011 10:26 AM

I'm curious why you cut the gasket in two places.

The uninitiated (me) would think that one cut would be sufficient to wiggle it around. I guess the reason is that the metal-reinforced gasket, even cut once, is still too rigid and too large to get around the obstacles.

Mudbone: Having done it, do you still recommend TWO cuts? Why?

Also, in this thread, there's no mention of what 'gasket sealer' mudbone used (cn90 discussed "liquid gasket"). Mudbone: For future reference, I'm trying to anticipate the questions while the answers are still fresh in your head.

Mudbone: What gasket sealer do you recommend, if any?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1302040055

Mudbone 04-05-2011 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebee (Post 5972959)
I'm curious why you cut the gasket in two places.

The uninitiated (me) would think that one cut would be sufficient to wiggle it around. I guess the reason is that the metal-reinforced gasket, even cut once, is still too rigid and too large to get around the obstacles.

Mudbone: Having done it, do you still recommend TWO cuts? Why?

Also, in this thread, there's no mention of what 'gasket sealer' mudbone used (cn90 discussed "liquid gasket"). Mudbone: For future reference, I'm trying to anticipate the questions while the answers are still fresh in your head.

Mudbone: What gasket sealer do you recommend, if any?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...7&d=1302007963h


Bluebee your assumption is correct. I could not get the new gasket in place with one cut. It is one of those "you had to be there" moments. The locations were selected by observation.

Yes I believe two cuts are required (see above).

As far as recommending a gasket sealer goes, I'm going to wait to see if it leaks before I recommend anything. But for the record I used "Permatex Ultra Copper".

559eddie559 04-05-2011 12:50 PM

the tasate of victory never tasted so good right mudbone?!

cn90 04-05-2011 01:21 PM

Many people may not realize the significance of this thread.

1. To do it the "kosher" way, it is 9-10h of pain:
- Support engine through the hook (engine hoist needed = crane or wood support etc.).
It is difficult to find a hoist, you can rent it but it costs money.
- Remove subframe (this is a BIG job because a lot of nuts and bolts need to be removed).
- After the oil pan gasket is done, re-install the subframe.
- A wheel alignment is strongly recommended = more money

2. Doing it this way (Mudbone's way = cutting the gasket in 2 places and use RTV sealant) saves tons of time and money.
It may not sound "kosher" but it works great.

I have every confidence this will hold up very very well with time.

So Mudbone, if we don't hear from you for the 10 years, we know it is good news.
No news = good news LOL.


PS: That "Permatex Ultra Copper" is very good stuff, it will hold up at least 8-10 years, been there done that.

rrtec 04-05-2011 04:09 PM

If you are going to cut the gasket anyway is there really any benefit to the gasket at all? Or would one be just as well served to use an oil resistant gasket maker for the entire bead?

bobdmac 04-05-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrtec (Post 5973933)
If you are going to cut the gasket anyway is there really any benefit to the gasket at all? Or would one be just as well served to use an oil resistant gasket maker for the entire bead?

Trying to create a consistent bead around the entire perimeter could get messy, I think. With this method, you only need to apply a couple of dabs.

bluebee 04-05-2011 04:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdmac (Post 5973940)
With this method, you only need to apply a couple of dabs.

You guys inherently have a feel for what to use (e.g., why not "Sealant HYLOMAR 100 g Tube for Oil Pan Gasket E39"?) and how 'much' to put on (like, what's a 'couple of dabs anyway').

Personally, I generally smear stuff on as thickly as I can (but, I suspect that would be wrong in this case).

I understand Mudbone didn't take pictures; so, may I ask the NEXT person who does this oilpan gasket repair to snap some PICTURES of the cut gasket and the sealant so we (who have never done it) get an idea of the steps to success.

Also, what sealant is best for the double-cut metal:rubber I6 oil pan gasket?
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1302043561

PS: I clued in the E46 (M54 engine) crowd just now with this thread:
- You 'can' replace the M54 I6 oilpan gasket WITHOUT disconnecting the subframe!

cn90 04-06-2011 08:40 AM

Mudbone,

You will be happy to see this thread, the RTV sealant trick holds up past the 150K in this E30:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...57&postcount=5

Quote:

..."m123":...I did the same thing my old e30 just used sealant in the cut b4 bolting it down and it worked fine drove it another 150k never leaked again; I made just 1 cut in the side middle area between 2 bolt holes.

BMR01530 04-06-2011 08:52 AM

wow.. I was just under the car last night for another issue and was looking at this problem. This is fantastic..
- Job = $28
- value = priceless

This is the true value of the internet and forums...

Route 66 04-06-2011 09:02 AM

Good info Thanks for sharing.

pleiades 04-06-2011 10:22 AM

Is it still a PITA cleaning old seal off the mating surfaces?

bobdmac 04-06-2011 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebee (Post 5974032)
You guys inherently have a feel for what to use ...and how 'much' to put on (like, what's a 'couple of dabs anyway').

Personally, I generally smear stuff on as thickly as I can (but, I suspect that would be wrong in this case).

Bluebee, just for you, I've been struggling to come up with a definition for a "dab," an inherently vague term, and so here's my stab at it:
dab: A small amount of a non-discrete substance that is sufficient for its intended purpose without being excessive.

Mudbone 04-07-2011 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pleiades (Post 5975830)
Is it still a PITA cleaning old seal off the mating surfaces?

It actually was not. I was very concerned about that. I figured that the rubber portion of the gasket had failed and that is why I was leaking. With that said, it made sense to me that the rubber would be stuck and or separated from the metal portion of the gasket. Neither was true. The rubber portion of the gasket was still pliable and intact.

Like I mentioned in thread #9, if I were going to do it again, I would drain the oil the night before and let it drain through the night and start on the job the next morning. It was very aggravating to have a little bit of oil continually dripping/running on to the gasket interface surfaces.


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