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-   -   Blue smoke at start up (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540496)

Doulos 05-10-2011 10:23 AM

Blue smoke at start up
 
I have a 1997 r1100rs it has 50k miles and on start up it has been billowing out blue smoke and was curious how normal it is or what can be done to repair. I have also noticed that after 200 or so miles i was low on oil, the owner before used synthetic if that helps

Thanks

BeemerMikeTX 05-11-2011 08:43 PM

I assume you mean that it smokes when first started and then it eventually stops smoking. Some of that is not uncommon, although you need to explain more of the details before we can advise if yours is abnormal.

1. How long (time/miles) have you owned the bike.
2. How do you know it is using oil and how much is it using, including how do you check the oil level.
3. Does it smoke every time you start the bike, or only some times.
4. How have your ridden the bike and how did you park it right before episodes of smoking.
5. How long does it take to stop smoking.

The more info the better.

Doulos 05-12-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX (Post 6059789)
I assume you mean that it smokes when first started and then it eventually stops smoking. Some of that is not uncommon, although you need to explain more of the details before we can advise if yours is abnormal.

1. How long (time/miles) have you owned the bike
2. How do you know it is using oil and how much is it using, including how do you check the oil level.
3. Does it smoke every time you start the bike, or only some times.
4. How have your ridden the bike and how did you park it right before episodes of smoking.
5. How long does it take to stop smoking.

The more info the better.

Thanks for reply
1. Have had bike for 2 weeks and put around 250 miles on it
2. when i got the bike from previous owner the oil view window was near full and a few days ago it was at the bottom of window on stand and level ground.
3. it only smoke at initial startup and seems to go away after that, i will let warm up for min. 2 or 3 minutes before i ride off
4. generally on back roads riding as i have been getting used to the handling and recently in town going to work (less than 10miles). Im not heavy on the throttle in either riding, park on level ground with kickstand
5. usually goes away with idle.


New information since post would be it is idling rough about every 30 second it dips a bit and the throttle seems really touchy or jumpy making it an uncomfortable ride. especially slow cornering as i increase or decrease speed going into and out of the corner almost like if i where to intentionally try to sputter the front end.

thanks again this is great

BeemerMikeTX 05-12-2011 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doulos (Post 6060760)
Thanks for reply
1. Have had bike for 2 weeks and put around 250 miles on it
2. when i got the bike from previous owner the oil view window was near full and a few days ago it was at the bottom of window on stand and level ground.
3. it only smoke at initial startup and seems to go away after that, i will let warm up for min. 2 or 3 minutes before i ride off
4. generally on back roads riding as i have been getting used to the handling and recently in town going to work (less than 10miles). Im not heavy on the throttle in either riding, park on level ground with kickstand
5. usually goes away with idle.


New information since post would be it is idling rough about every 30 second it dips a bit and the throttle seems really touchy or jumpy making it an uncomfortable ride. especially slow cornering as i increase or decrease speed going into and out of the corner almost like if i where to intentionally try to sputter the front end.

thanks again this is great

1. OK, so you're new to the bike and are still getting used to what is "normal".
2. The correct way to check the engine oil level on an R1100 ("oilhead") is to ride the bike long enough to get the oil up to operating temperature. Then turn the bike off and put it on the sidestand (not the centerstand) for about 10 minutes. This ensures all the oil drains down to the sump and doesn't hang up in the oil cooler. Then put the bike on the centerstand, on a level surface, and read the oil level in the sight glass after a couple of minutes. This method will help ensure that you get consistent level readings. Assuming your sight glass still has the red circle (mine doesn't), the general consensus "correct" oil level is somewhere between the center dot and the top of the red circle (which is about 2-3 mm from the top of the sight glass). The oil should NOT completely fill the sight glass, which indicates the engine is overfilled with oil, and may promote start-up smoking. IIRC the oil amount from the top of the red circle to the bottom of the red circle is about 0.5 quart.
3. No need to let the bike "warm up" for 2 to 3 minutes before you ride off. As soon as the engine starts and runs smoothly (less than 30 seconds), ride away but be easy until the engine oil warms up. That's a better use of the 2 to 3 minutes to warm up the engine.
4. Some smoking at start-up is not uncommon, especially if you park the bike on the sidestand. I believe the suspected cause is a little oil leaking (or being drawn) past the rings on the left cylinder and then having to be burned out of the engine. Try parking the bike on the centerstand and see if this reduces the episodes of smoking. My K75S is very bad, and erratic,about this. Nine times out of ten when parked on the sidestand it will start up without any smoke, but then that 10th time it will smoke like a mosquito fogger for several minutes.
5. If the smoking stops right after start-up, and it does not smoke under acceleration or engine braking, then I don't think you have anything worth trying to repair. With only 50k miles on the engine, it is not worn.

As for the rough idling and touchy throttle, it sounds like to need to check the throttle body synchronization and idle adjustment. This is a common issue with the oilheads. To do correctly, you need to check/replace the spark plugs, check/replace the air filter, adjust the valves, and then do a TB synch and idle adjustment.

Good luck.

Doulos 05-13-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeemerMikeTX (Post 6060873)
1. OK, so you're new to the bike and are still getting used to what is "normal".
2. The correct way to check the engine oil level on an R1100 ("oilhead") is to ride the bike long enough to get the oil up to operating temperature. Then turn the bike off and put it on the sidestand (not the centerstand) for about 10 minutes. This ensures all the oil drains down to the sump and doesn't hang up in the oil cooler. Then put the bike on the centerstand, on a level surface, and read the oil level in the sight glass after a couple of minutes. This method will help ensure that you get consistent level readings. Assuming your sight glass still has the red circle (mine doesn't), the general consensus "correct" oil level is somewhere between the center dot and the top of the red circle (which is about 2-3 mm from the top of the sight glass). The oil should NOT completely fill the sight glass, which indicates the engine is overfilled with oil, and may promote start-up smoking. IIRC the oil amount from the top of the red circle to the bottom of the red circle is about 0.5 quart.
3. No need to let the bike "warm up" for 2 to 3 minutes before you ride off. As soon as the engine starts and runs smoothly (less than 30 seconds), ride away but be easy until the engine oil warms up. That's a better use of the 2 to 3 minutes to warm up the engine.
4. Some smoking at start-up is not uncommon, especially if you park the bike on the sidestand. I believe the suspected cause is a little oil leaking (or being drawn) past the rings on the left cylinder and then having to be burned out of the engine. Try parking the bike on the centerstand and see if this reduces the episodes of smoking. My K75S is very bad, and erratic,about this. Nine times out of ten when parked on the sidestand it will start up without any smoke, but then that 10th time it will smoke like a mosquito fogger for several minutes.
5. If the smoking stops right after start-up, and it does not smoke under acceleration or engine braking, then I don't think you have anything worth trying to repair. With only 50k miles on the engine, it is not worn.

As for the rough idling and touchy throttle, it sounds like to need to check the throttle body synchronization and idle adjustment. This is a common issue with the oilheads. To do correctly, you need to check/replace the spark plugs, check/replace the air filter, adjust the valves, and then do a TB synch and idle adjustment.

Good luck.


Wealth of Knowledge !
Thank you for that information, I have gone through your checklist and oil was overfilled the smoking is now reduced by half.

I have a haynes and clymers and noticed the spark plugs are a bit oily or rich with fuel also the fuel jets had a bit of build up on them, I just did a dry cloth cleaning. Then I adjusted the idle adjustment and it seemed to help, I noticed the previous owner made a small marks for proper placement, i placed the marks back together and it idles much better.

Thanks once again for your help!
Stuart

Steamer 05-15-2011 12:50 PM

May be worth the time to check valves and sinc out the carbs, both can be accomplished easily with minimal tools, this will get the idle to be smooth and help the motor run better

BeemerMikeTX 05-17-2011 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doulos (Post 6063456)
Thank you for that information, I have gone through your checklist and oil was overfilled the smoking is now reduced by half.

I have a haynes and clymers and noticed the spark plugs are a bit oily or rich with fuel also the fuel jets had a bit of build up on them, I just did a dry cloth cleaning. Then I adjusted the idle adjustment and it seemed to help, I noticed the previous owner made a small marks for proper placement, i placed the marks back together and it idles much better.

Glad the smoking has improved.

I'm not sure what you mean by "small marks for proper placement". Most of the idle speed and synching adjustments are made using a vacuum measuring tool of some sort (TwinMax digital or "CarbStix" type manometer). If you are not really sure of the maintenance history of your bike, it may be worth the effort to start from the beginning and reset the baseline.

1. New spark plugs.
2. Have the fuel injectors (I assume this is what you mean by "fuel jets") checked and ultrasonically cleaned. This is not critical (you could also just run Techron or similar cleaner through the fuel system for a couple of tanks), but then you would know that your injectors are working properly.
3. New air filter.
4. Adjust the valves (and check/replace the alternator belt while you are doing it).
5. Adjust the idle speed and synch the throttle bodies. I'm not sure if your bike has the single throttle cable to the left TB with the jumper cable to the right TB (like mine) or has the "Y" type throttle cable to both TB's. The adjustment method differs between the two, but the basic idea is the same. You will need some sort of vacuum measuring device to do this properly.

These bikes run much better if maintained and adjusted properly, and tend to have running issues if not (e.g., surging). Most of the adjustments can be done by a reasonably competent DIY with a minimum of tools. The vacuum measuring device is the only really specialized tool, and you can either borrow one or buy one for about $100.

boxer259 11-16-2011 06:19 PM

smoke
 
They tend to do that if placed on side stand.

TRASHCAN 02-16-2012 07:30 PM

I always park on the center stand just to avoid the blue smoke... I also thought it worth mentioning that a old fuel filter will cause the surging you described. The first time it happend to me was in a very slow tight turn and I almost dropped the bike, after many weekends of tinkering and looking searching and adjusting a buddy at work suggested fuel filter. It had not been that long since I had changed mine so It didnt even dawn on me to check it... I must have had some crap fuel or something because when I took it off and turned it over black fuel came out! I replaced the filter and only days later my other bike (almost same bike as the first) that I had been riding in lue of my LT started the same studder and strange idling. Same thing with the fuel filter and ever since I have bought my fuel at a different station and no probs since. Its Cheep enough and easy enough to check so I thought I would mention it.


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