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-   -   Cabin Air Filter Choices - OEM, Bosch, NPN (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544576)

niceguymr 05-27-2011 01:02 PM

Cabin Air Filter Choices - OEM, Bosch, NPN
 
I know this is probably one of the lesser important choices I'll be making for my routine maintenance but ECS offers 3 different choices for the cabin air filter. OEM, Bosch, and NPN. They are all charcoal lined and all look almost identical but the Bosch and NPN are almost half the price of OEM. If it were for anything mechanical, I would not hesitate to spend the money for OEM parts. I'm just curious if anyone has used the Bosch or the NPN filters and can comment on them. I'm leaning toward the Bosch simply because it's the cheapest and the better recognized brand (at least for me anyway).

P.S. The reason I'm limiting myself to these choices is b/c I've used ECS in the past and am about to order some stuff for my next oil change.

Supercourse 05-27-2011 02:32 PM

Had an NPN on the X3 a few years ago, and found that odor from 300D's, Rabbit Diesels, etc. ahead of us didn't get toned down at all.
Discarded it fairly quickly.

I deduced at the time that the charcoal impregnation was fake, and resolved not to buy any more cabin filters made in E. Asia

As it was a few years ago, they could be better now through marketplace forces.

The Bosch option should be safe.
I know they use factories in Europe and Japan for sparkplugs - don't know about their filters.

I'm sure we don't expect too much from cabin filters - just that they do what they are supposed to.
I think the O.E. is a Corteco/Freudenberg.
Unlike a few years ago, lots of choices now in X3 cabin filters:
WIX, Filtertech, Mahle, Meyle, Mann, Fram, Hengst, etc.

ncord 05-28-2011 10:49 AM

I replaced mine with a Bosch and it seems fine.Mann makes a good one as well.

AzNMpower32 05-28-2011 07:23 PM

Bosch is a generally safe choice. For something like that, I wouldn't worry hugely about OEM.

Evlengr 08-28-2011 09:35 PM

Replace Cabin Air Filter
 
Sending my X3 in the shop on Tuesday for rotors and figured after three years they should change the cabin air filter as it is not eliminating allergen's from the air like it used to.

Is this something they should replace without a hassle or is there some little indicator or catch to them doing this (like replacing my rotors had to be worn a certain measureable degree).

It seems to me that the hassle free 4 year warranty always has some little catch here or there (and is not "Hassle Free"). And I want to have an immediate answer should they throw down their typical excuses to get out of it.
Thanks,

EE

Supercourse 08-28-2011 09:47 PM

It's part of a BMW Engine Oil Service,

along with check brake pad thickness, and check parking brake & adjust if necessary.

So every 15K miles or annually - under the no-charge scheduled maintenance.

Hard to believe yours hasn't been changed in 3 years.

Evlengr 08-28-2011 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercourse (Post 6284571)
It's part of a BMW Engine Oil Service,

along with check brake pad thickness, and check parking brake & adjust if necessary.

So every 15K miles or annually - under the no-charge scheduled maintenance.

Hard to believe yours hasn't been changed in 3 years.


Hmm will check my paperwork, but don't recall seeing that on the invoice. Sure you arent talking about the engine air filter?

Thanks,

fivepointnine 08-29-2011 04:50 AM

I want to say its only on the inspections, Ill have to double check....but Im in the process of doing my own inspection II so Im picking up one this week, probably a Bosch

Supercourse 08-29-2011 07:51 AM

Don't know about leaving a cabin filter in for 3 years, but .....

there was an early Frasier episode where Niles (a Mercedes owner) berated Frasier (BMW 7 series) for not having changed his cabin filter in 6 months.

The episode was called, "When bad things happen to good BMW owners".

Frasier comes in, even wetter than before. He angrily shakes out the
skeletal ruin of his umbrella, then drops it in the wastebasket.

Martin: Wow. Frasier, what happened?

Frasier: What happened? I went six months without replacing my pollen
filter in my car, so it was in the shop. Couldn't get a cab,
so I took the bus home. Which splashed me! And I fell down,
missed my stop, and had to walk home ten blocks in this
downpour!

Niles: You went six months without changing your pollen filter?

timfitz63 08-29-2011 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evlengr (Post 6284621)
... Sure you arent talking about the engine air filter?

I seem to recall that BMW's recommended change interval on the engine air filter was something absurdly long; like 50-60k miles...

The cabin air filter, I thought, was every couple years, coinciding with the brake fluid flush...

Supercourse 08-29-2011 09:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Might have changed over the years, and vary between models.

Can't find one specific to the X3, but in this checklist for other 2004 models, it shows a microfilter change as part of the Oil Service.

madurodave 08-29-2011 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfitz63 (Post 6285074)
I seem to recall that BMW's recommended change interval on the engine air filter was something absurdly long; like 50-60k miles...

The cabin air filter, I thought, was every couple years, coinciding with the brake fluid flush...

That's about right. Too long an interval for my location but easy enough to change.

spokelizard 08-29-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfitz63 (Post 6285074)
I seem to recall that BMW's recommended change interval on the engine air filter was something absurdly long; like 50-60k miles...

The cabin air filter, I thought, was every couple years, coinciding with the brake fluid flush...

My recollection is that the official interval is cabin filter at each Inspection, or roughly every 30K miles (for me Inspection I was at 34K miles) and the engine air filter at Inspection II, or roughly every 60K miles (I haven't hit Inspection II yet).

In the personal maintenance schedule I've set up, I halved the intervals to 15K and 30K.

Then when I came back from the desert in July (lots of unpaved dusty roads) I replaced both even though I hadn't reached even 15K on either one. Started a new 15K/30K replacement cycle (or sooner if I go back to the desert.)

Evlengr 08-30-2011 06:54 PM

Ok so get this. I drop the car off today. They agree to replace for the second time the worn/torn rubber finish on my steering wheel.

However they tell me that the rotos cant be done as the min spec 23.40 and my rotors are 23.47.

Well 3 months ago I brought them in and they told me they were 23.46. So they are either inaccurate in their calibrations which they swear by or my rotors are now getting thicker than thinner.

Or if the several 100'ths of an inch is not so big a deal then they should have done them three months ago in the first place.

This is why I never trust them.

madurodave 08-30-2011 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evlengr (Post 6288556)
Ok so get this. I drop the car off today. They agree to replace for the second time the worn/torn rubber finish on my steering wheel.

However they tell me that the rotos cant be done as the min spec 23.40 and my rotors are 23.47.

Well 3 months ago I brought them in and they told me they were 23.46. So they are either inaccurate in their calibrations which they swear by or my rotors are now getting thicker than thinner.

Or if the several 100'ths of an inch is not so big a deal then they should have done them three months ago in the first place.

This is why I never trust them.

So your finish came off again? You don't actually touch the steering wheel trim, do you? Sorry - a little BMW humor.

I don't think the .01mm will do much. Just technician inaccuracy or they picked up more of a raised area.

So were you trying to get them replaced under warranty and the said they are still in spec?

It is frustrating!

Evlengr 08-30-2011 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madurodave (Post 6288661)
So your finish came off again? You don't actually touch the steering wheel trim, do you? Sorry - a little BMW humor.

I don't think the .01mm will do much. Just technician inaccuracy or they picked up more of a raised area.

So were you trying to get them replaced under warranty and the said they are still in spec?

It is frustrating!


Yes I want them replaced under warranty which runs out in 8k miles. i don't think .01 is much as .05 but that is why they are arguing they can't replace them. So if they want to split hairs I figure it is only fair for me to bust their chops over it.

They are reporting that after three months of wear with new brakes that the rotors are actually the same or more in thickness. C'mon what kind of BS is that.

Probably going to a seperate ASE shop and ask them to measure them. If they are 23.40 or less which they argue is the point they will replace them, I am going to raise the roof on this one. :mad:

Something you don't play games with is braking.

Supercourse 08-30-2011 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evlengr (Post 6288754)
They are reporting that after three months of wear with new brakes that the rotors are actually the same or more in thickness. C'mon what kind of BS is that.

I'll play Devil's advocate here .......

Rotors do build up a microscopic layer of pad material, because of the nature of disc brakes and the heat involved.

They are both sacrificial components, but not independent of each other.

This is why bedding in of new pads can be important - to get that initial transference as evenly distributed as possible.

And it's why using old pads with new rotors is not normally advised, because the old pads are not likely to be worn perfectly evenly.

Using new pads with old rotors is more acceptable, but also not optimal, regardless of min. rotor thickness considerations.

New pads and new rotors provide the best starting point for establishing long-term braking performance.

So, after a few months with new pads on old rotors, could the rotor thickness really have increased?

Nah, not really - but other that inaccuracies in measuring, they could be measuring now at a spot that has a high point of pad material transfer (as already mentioned by madurodave).

So that could account for the 0.01 mm. but the point is that there is still a way to go until min. thickness is reached.

More than measuring inaccuracy I would say, so in hindsight it might have been best to wait until closer to the 8K miles remaining under no-charge scheduled maintenance.

If an independent measurement finds min. spec. reached, would this really lead to the dealer readily coming up with new rotors?

Or more time-consuming back and forth discussion?

Scuff up the rotors with emery cloth for a fresh start, do the belated bedding in process, and try the dealer again in a few months?

Evlengr 08-30-2011 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supercourse (Post 6288883)
I'll play Devil's advocate here .......

Rotors do build up a microscopic layer of pad material, because of the nature of disc brakes and the heat involved.

They are both sacrificial components, but not independent of each other.

This is why bedding in of new pads can be important - to get that initial transference as evenly distributed as possible.

And it's why using old pads with new rotors is not normally advised, because the old pads are not likely to be worn perfectly evenly.

Using new pads with old rotors is more acceptable, but also not optimal, regardless of min. rotor thickness considerations.

New pads and new rotors provide the best starting point for establishing long-term braking performance.

So, after a few months with new pads on old rotors, could the rotor thickness really have increased?

Nah, not really - but other that inaccuracies in measuring, they could be measuring now at a spot that has a high point of pad material transfer (as already mentioned by madurodave).

So that could account for the 0.01 mm. but the point is that there is still a way to go until min. thickness is reached.

More than measuring inaccuracy I would say, so in hindsight it might have been best to wait until closer to the 8K miles remaining under no-charge scheduled maintenance.

If an independent measurement finds min. spec. reached, would this really lead to the dealer readily coming up with new rotors?

Or more time-consuming back and forth discussion?

Scuff up the rotors with emery cloth for a fresh start, do the belated bedding in process, and try the dealer again in a few months?

I agree on all accounts. I wouldn't even bring up the point if they weren't so dogmatic about their approach. Kind of live by the sword, die by the sword. If you are going to belabor the point over a 100'th of a mm, then you better be darn sure you are correct.

If a private ASE cert mechanic comes back and say hey man these are 22.xx, then yes I will make them measure them right in front of me as braking is not something you argue over. I'd rather crack the engine than find out my brakes won't work the way I expect them to.

If he says eh 23.xx then I will wait a bit and come back in Feb.

So far BMW has lied to me more than told the truth so I think everything they do is subject to scrutiny. Chances are I will borrow a micrometer from work and check myself as well.

Gwos25 08-31-2011 09:29 AM

I just picked up a 2005 X3 and am doing some research. My plan is to give it a complete tune up/service including all fluids and fitlers. My question, in keeping with the original topic of this thread, is will the carbon type filter fit in the X3 without climate control? I found two listings for cabin filters, the carbon type for vehicles with climate control, and a simple paper element for those without. Anyone know if they are interchangable?
Thanks!

spokelizard 08-31-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evlengr (Post 6288754)
Yes I want them replaced under warranty which runs out in 8k miles. i don't think .01 is much as .05 but that is why they are arguing they can't replace them. So if they want to split hairs I figure it is only fair for me to bust their chops over it.

They are reporting that after three months of wear with new brakes that the rotors are actually the same or more in thickness. C'mon what kind of BS is that.

Probably going to a seperate ASE shop and ask them to measure them. If they are 23.40 or less which they argue is the point they will replace them, I am going to raise the roof on this one. :mad:

Something you don't play games with is braking.

I fully agree that standard practice should be replace rotors with the pads, and that the rigid BMW policy is silly.

That being said, if you really feel that strongly about this being a safety issue, I'd suggest just paying for new rotors yourself, and if necessary new pads (again) to bed them properly.

Not worth dancing with the dealer for 3 more months, standing on principle while you have a constant safety concern, then having them win the staring contest and you've got to pay for it anyway.

Supercourse 08-31-2011 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwos25 (Post 6289548)
Anyone know if they are interchangable?

Yes, they are.

Don't know why they would be listed as different - not seen that on any supplier sites I have used.

Evlengr 09-02-2011 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokelizard (Post 6289581)
I fully agree that standard practice should be replace rotors with the pads, and that the rigid BMW policy is silly.

That being said, if you really feel that strongly about this being a safety issue, I'd suggest just paying for new rotors yourself, and if necessary new pads (again) to bed them properly.

Not worth dancing with the dealer for 3 more months, standing on principle while you have a constant safety concern, then having them win the staring contest and you've got to pay for it anyway.

Told them I would be back in three months. I will take an emery cloth to them 3 days prior and measure them myself.

If they try to reneg at that point I will ask to see them measure them with me standing there. If they refuse I will take to an ASE mechanic have them measure them (if they are 23.40 or lower) and then sue BMWNA and dealership for breach of contract.

I don't like being bs'd and BMW does this kind of thing way too often.

trader37 10-08-2011 12:18 PM

Is the Cabin Airfilter something one can do on their own? Does it need a lot of elbow grease? Can anyone tell me where it's located on a 2004 X3 and I would go about changing it?

madurodave 10-08-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trader37 (Post 6367139)
Is the Cabin Airfilter something one can do on their own? Does it need a lot of elbow grease? Can anyone tell me where it's located on a 2004 X3 and I would go about changing it?

Very easy to do. Open hood, look towards windshield. There is a plastic cover that runs along windshield. I believe there are 2 attachment points on ends. Turn 1/4 turn, lift off cover. Voila! There it is. Lift out, vacuum out, inspect inside for water, debris, wear. Insert new filter, cover on, turn screw attachments. Close hood, open beer, pat self on back for job well done!

trader37 10-08-2011 12:42 PM

Lol, sounds easy to do....

Do I order the carbon or the paper? I have a basic stock x3 without automatic controls...


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