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-   -   Nos help (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=547901)

Cubiricanpapi 06-11-2011 06:51 PM

Nos help
 
Hey I was looking to install a bottle of nitrious to my 540i v8 4.4.any body have hints n tips for me

bimmerteck 06-11-2011 07:19 PM

Start shopping for a spare motor now, it will help reduce the down time when it goes pop.

Seriously though, find a experienced installer in your area, who also knows BMWs. It will be hard but will likely come out much cheaper in the long run.

bluebee 06-11-2011 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerteck (Post 6125794)
Start shopping for a spare motor now

I wonder if cold fusion works better than n20 (nitrous oxide) to super power your bimmer?

Anyway, a quick search finds this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540indiana (Post 5858567)
+1 Unforunately there is no cheap way to gain hp on our bimmers. $100 for every 10hp gained I believe is the equation. I would lean towards cooling system

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdmac (Post 5858528)
I think it's time for us to realize that used BMW's have gotten down to a price level that people can afford to buy them just so they can screw around with them, whether that means performance or cosmetic mods. This is no different than what the original hot rodders did to all sorts of vehicles back in the day––Lincolns, Cadillacs, you name it. Clearly, some of the recently initiated BMW owners have different priorities than the preponderance of those who bought them new or as CPO's.

For that reason, flaming the OP's ability to figure out what makes sense doesn't really accomplish anything.

Of course, having said all that, as a new 540 owner myself, I think he's freakin' nuts.

But, that's his business, and we can decide whether we want to help him or ignore him, but at least he's asking questions and trying to learn (I think).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mancho (Post 5858469)
Why waste time w this mod, unless your racing, it makes much more sense to just to just buy a higher hp car. But whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by five.two.five (Post 5857561)
TFM34: Adding a N2O system to your car will provide you a temporary horse power gain, but it is something that needs to be thoroughly researched before doing it. There are a few things to taken into consideration before purchasing a kit. Do you want direct port, wet or dry, electronic or manual bottle opener, bottle warmer, throttle switch or button activation, fuel pressure regulator, how many degrees to retard the timing, etc. Besides all of that, what do you want to achieve?

Check out these websites and submit an inquiry to one or all of these companies for accurate advice.
NitrousExpress.com
Zex.com
Edelbrock.com
Holley.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98540iA (Post 5857550)
OP, I suggest you ask folks at places that sell automobile NOS products about your questions. The e39 forums are typically populated by enthusiasts who would not consider NOS, me included. For a powerful mod, I would consider forced induction (supercharger) but that is very expensive and would also require brake and suspension mods also. There are probably other cars out there better suited for a NOS mod, but I'm sure some folks have done this with a 540 in the past. If you do go the NOS route, I would suggest brake upgrade also since you will have a heavy and fast torpedo that the stock brakes were not meant to deal with.
My gut feeling is that it is NOT safe to use NOS with this car if you want to keep the car going for an extended period of time. I don't know much about NOS but I believe it is very hard on the engine and will probably eat it alive quickly...... just my thoughts.


bimmerteck 06-11-2011 09:28 PM

Well, I don't know that I'm against nitrous oxide, It's just that nitrous like so many "go fast goodies" is usually way more expensive than most people realize to set up properly on a BMW. The M5 I put a system on totaled up close to $4k before it was complete but it made for a fun ride. To get it where the nitrous was really usable required a full day on the dyno, custom mapping of the fuel enrichment, changing to a racelogic traction control system to interface with the nitrous system, and quite a bit of fabrication for the install.

It is a classic example of an old Hot Rod adage - Speed costs money, how fast does your wallet want to go?


FMU is the closest shop I know of to you that has the type of facility to properly set up and tune a quality nitrous setup on an OBD-II BMW. There might be a shop like them in your state, but if there is I don't know of it. Below is are a few pics of their install on a customers e46 M3, and a link to their site and Wizards of NOS, the european outfit they source their BMW systems from.



http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-co...s5-625x415.jpg

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-co...s5-625x415.jpg

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/

http://www.noswizard.com/

bmw_n00b13 06-12-2011 10:53 AM

Don't do drugs.

JimLev 06-12-2011 11:51 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubiricanpapi (Post 6125753)
Hey I was looking to install a bottle of nitrious to my 540i v8 4.4.any body have hints n tips for me

Ah....so many responses from all of those arm chair quarterbacks.
If done right it will cost you any where from $500 to $1500 depending on how much HP you want. A 40-50 HP system (1 nozzle) will be a quick and easy install on a 540.
I've been using a dual stage setup on my 540 for the last 8 years, got 133k on her now, same engine and it still runs like the day I drove it off the BMW showroom.
The 1st stage is port injected (125HP), the 2nd stage (50HP) sprays into the intake manifold from both ends for better coverage. I also have a water methanol system to ensure there is no pre-detonation.
I've helped a number of guys put smaller 1 injector systems on their cars.
If your serious about doing this I can email you more info. No remapping of the DME is necessary. I've dynoed my car, the air/fuel mixture was well within limits.

The website for the Wizard of NOS is in England, the owner (Trev) can be a pretty abusive guy especially if you question him on anything.
He calls every NOS manufacture here in the US an idiot.
His parts are the "best" just ask him. Everybody else sells junk.
I've got email from a few of their forum members warning me about his temper and the problems they have with some of his systems.

bluebee 06-12-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLev (Post 6126776)
Ait will cost you any where from $500 to $1500 depending on how much HP you want. A 40-50 HP system (1 nozzle) will be a quick and easy install on a 540

Since there were no pointers for N2O systems in the bestlinks, I added this one:
- How to gain horsepower with a bottle of N20 NOS nitrous oxide (1)

The strategy is to have at least one 'canonical' thread for each topic to refer others to.

Which thread is chosen to be canonical doesn't matter as much as how much information is in that thread, whether directly, or cross linked.

So, I ask others to add insight to this thread or link to others that do have insight - so we can refer others to this thread in the future.

To the OP:
When you add that bottle of N20, please write up the pictorial DIY and keep us informed as to your complete progress ... (that's your payback ... and how you gain respect).

Thanks.

chelseafc 06-12-2011 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubiricanpapi (Post 6125753)
Hey I was looking to install a bottle of nitrious to my 540i v8 4.4.any body have hints n tips for me

Yes, don't do it.

cdawg246 06-12-2011 01:41 PM

Save ur money and get in on the group buy for vf engineering supercharger system--then the xtra hp will always be there plus drivability

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Bimmer App

Burning2nd 06-12-2011 01:44 PM

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...3&d=1307904011

ok who sprinkled the crack cocaine in the engine again?


on the strength unless you do it like this forget about it... and even this guy engine on stand by... its my old say nothing new comes from nos
blow it, boost it, don't juice it

you will be parting your car out b4 your even done hitting that first button

you wanna have fun with juice... build a cREX, 87 honda crx gutted with a cz swap.. 100 shot all day and night... fun as hell and when we blew it up it only cost 400 bucks for a new motor :D thing was so fukin fun.. we would blast nos off the line, around corners and just to pass people... and the car was gutted.. two seats a cluster a steering wheel.. and a HUGE nos bottle stapped to the center rear of the car where the spare should have been

killed it finally with a 200 shot... she ejected a piston

JimLev 06-12-2011 02:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
On standby??? I don't think so. I've had it on this engine for the last 8 years.
200HP on a Civic, bet it would have had a better chance of surviving if you had a progressive controller.

Bluebee, you wanted more info.

I've been using Nitrous since 1990 and haven't had any problems.
The key is not to abuse it with too much boost for the size engine you have.
Summit Racing sells them. I got an NOS kit for my 300ZX back in 1990 and when I sold the Z I kept the NOS for my 540.
A turbo or supercharger will cost you big bucks to buy and install, and will decrease your mileage because it is always available and you will use it more than you think.
When you sell the car your supercharged/turbo is gone, your need to start all over. NOS can be moved from car to car.
I went the N2O route because it was less than 1/10 the price of the other methods and much easier to install.
I don't use it that much in the 540 because it has adequate HP without it, but the more HP the better has always been my motto!
The only down side is you have to get the bottle refilled when it runs out. In MA it costs ~$50 to refill a 10 lb tank. There are 15 and 20lb tanks that come with some kits now. I bought a 20Lb tank.
There are wet and dry kits. Wet injects gas and nitrous into the intake. A dry kit uses just nitrous and fools the injectors into dumping more gas into the cylinders to keep the air/fuel ratio within reason.
I prefer the wet kit, as you don't need to tap into the computer or fool the fuel pressure regulator to get the injectors to spray more fuel. With the wet system it’s easy to change either jet to get the ratio correct.
The extra power comes from the extra gas that get delivered into the engine, the nitrous is just there to supply O2 to burn the extra fuel and to cool down the intake charge.
You only use nitrous when the gas pedal is floored. For a 528/530, a 40HP boost is real safe. My 300ZX had a 3-liter V-6 and I was using a 60HP boost. (After 180K miles on this engine I took it apart to add ISKY cams, head and intake porting and polishing, etc. I miked all the bearings, rings, journals, etc. and all were still in spec, granted on the low side of in spec, but still OK. The engine still didn’t burn oil).
The fogger nozzle has small jets that you can change to vary the HP level, a 2-minute job.
If you’re looking for bigger boosts a 2-stage method is advisable, as you will limit the sudden jolt of power to a smoother transition, which is much better for the drivetrain. I have my initial boost set at 50HP which then ramps up to 125HP in 1.5 second. Then if I have the second stage enabled another 50HP comes on, for a total of 175HP.
Another thing to know is that the bottle needs to be warm to keep the pressure up. In the winter it is just too cold for even a full bottle to deliver adequate pressure, so you may need to get a 12V bottle heater (~$120) if you want to use in the winter. I don't drive my car in the winter so that isn't an issue, but I added a heater for those cold spring and fall days. If the pressure is down you won't get all the HP you would with a warm bottle, not enough O2 to burn the extra fuel. ZEX has a kit that touts a nozzle design that says it delivers the correct fuel for any bottle pressure, and they say that they control the fuel delivery by measuring the N2O bottle pressure. All of the different manufactures use a similar nozzle design. ZEX does have a nice kit, they are just marketing it to a different crowd than NOS. ZEX is big with the import crowd and has packaged their product better than NOS. ZEX has the solenoids in a box, you don’t see most of the plumbing.
One last comment, nitrous doesn’t like advanced timing, as most chips and software downloads do as part of the “program” to get more HP. As a general rule the timing should be retarded 1° for every 75HP boost. I was running the stock DME software and have no problems with a 100HP boost. When I went to the 175HP level I added water/methanol injection and used NGK iridium plugs (1 range colder) to prevent pre-detonation.
I don’t know what the degrees of advance are on the various stages of software upgrades, but BMW engines do have knock sensors on them to retard the timing if pinging is detected. I always 93 octane fuel and have no issues. 92 Octane is recommended. I’m now up to 175 HP boost using an NOS Progressive controller. I also have Dinan engine software, no pinging has been detected.

Burning2nd 06-12-2011 03:53 PM

200 lol try 400, as i said we blew it up on purpose..

but respect to you for juice a 5, sick

chelseafc 06-12-2011 06:03 PM

I don't know, Nitrous just seems like a low grade way to produce power. Go turbo or blower. I think of boy racer, import garbage when I think of Nitrous. Maybe I can't get over Vin Diesel yelling 'NOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS' in F and F.

bimmerteck 06-12-2011 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLev (Post 6126776)
Ah....so many responses from all of those arm chair quarterbacks.
If done right it will cost you any where from $500 to $1500 depending on how much HP you want. A 40-50 HP system (1 nozzle) will be a quick and easy install on a 540.
I've been using a dual stage setup on my 540 for the last 8 years, got 133k on her now, same engine and it still runs like the day I drove it off the BMW showroom.
The 1st stage is port injected (125HP), the 2nd stage (50HP) sprays into the intake manifold from both ends for better coverage. I also have a water methanol system to ensure there is no pre-detonation.
I've helped a number of guys put smaller 1 injector systems on their cars.
If your serious about doing this I can email you more info. No remapping of the DME is necessary. I've dynoed my car, the air/fuel mixture was well within limits.

JimLev- your setup looks great, very well planned out, and IMHO your 2nd stage would be an excellent starting off point for someone looking to get a taste of nitrous.(it's very addictive :D )

For those looking at my figures vs. Jim's remember to keep in mind that labor (if you can't install all the parts yourself) adds up quick @$95 an hour My customer with the M5 was running alpha-N and velocity stacks already(and is a performance nut with a large budget) so his install was rather complex compared to the more typical system JimLev is running

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLev (Post 6126776)
The website for the Wizard of NOS is in England, the owner (Trev) can be a pretty abusive guy especially if you question him on anything.
He calls every NOS manufacture here in the US an idiot.
His parts are the "best" just ask him. Everybody else sells junk.
I've got email from a few of their forum members warning me about his temper and the problems they have with some of his systems.

Wow, thanks for the heads up, I haven't dealt with them myself(and may not go out of my way too after hearing that) but I was very impressed with Fluid's install of their kit on s54 in the M3. (made my s62 install look quite cluttered) I have installed several systems from NOS and ZEX over the years and while I wouldn't call either junk I do believe there is room for improvement on some of the I've worked with. but I can say the guys at NOS have been great anytime I've called them with a tech question.

JimLev 06-12-2011 08:14 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Bimmerteck, the NOS guys have always been great for me too when I had questions. I should have added that I installed my system which did save a ton of money.
Originally I had a one injector setup, but then it became a 2 inj setup, then added the progressive controller, then the M5 LSD to get all the power to the ground.....it just kept snowballing to what I now have. This is it, I want it to stay together.
I got the idea from a Gene Fulton article I saw in Hot Rod magazine a few years ago, he had 5 stages of juice and a much bigger motor. I spoke with him to get a few pointers.
If your into "over the top" power it's an interesting article.

bimmerteck 06-12-2011 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerteck (Post 6127570)
JimLev- your setup looks great, very well planned out, and IMHO your 2nd stage would be an excellent starting off point for someone looking to get a taste of nitrous.(it's very addictive :D )

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimLev (Post 6127607)
Originally I had a one injector setup, but then it became a 2 inj setup, then added the progressive controller, then the M5 LSD to get all the power to the ground.....it just kept snowballing to what I now have.


Did I mention that it's addictive. :thumbup:

JimLev 06-13-2011 06:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerteck (Post 6127622)
Did I mention that it's addictive. :thumbup:

Yes you did.........and like any (good) addiction it needs to be tended to properly.
I got tired of going to the speed shop for a refill so I got my own setup.
That's not acetylene in the tank, it's just part of the supply companies name.


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