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-   -   X5 35d Performance Chips... (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570869)

Emission 09-25-2011 10:46 PM

X5 35d Performance Chips...
 
Another thread was discussing performance chips for the X5 35d. Understandably, the chip is interchangeable with the 335d...

I'm hoping to install the $279 piggyback from Burger Motorsports:

http://www.burgertuning.com/BMW_JBD_...ance_chip.html

"Gain up to 60+ horsepower and up to 100+ torque to the wheels by simply adding the JB Diesel (JBD) with no other modifications. In addition to power and torque gains throttle response is dramatically improved making your juiced BMW much more fun to drive. Simple plug and play installation and does not hurt fuel economy during normal driving."

I had my '07 335i chipped with a "Juicebox" and never had any issues. Hoping to do the same with my X5!

Questions, comments, experiences?

- Mike

335i 09-25-2011 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emission (Post 6340340)
Another thread was discussing performance chips for the X5 35d. Understandably, the chip is interchangeable with the 335d...

I'm hoping to install the $279 piggyback from Burger Motorsports:

http://www.burgertuning.com/BMW_JBD_...ance_chip.html

"Gain up to 60+ horsepower and up to 100+ torque to the wheels by simply adding the JB Diesel (JBD) with no other modifications. In addition to power and torque gains throttle response is dramatically improved making your juiced BMW much more fun to drive. Simple plug and play installation and does not hurt fuel economy during normal driving."

I had my '07 335i chipped with a "Juicebox" and never had any issues. Hoping to do the same with my X5!

Questions, comments, experiences?

- Mike

If you have a mod-friendly service advisor, go for it!

After looking back at all of the issues the N54 had with fuel pumps, I decided not to get one for my 335i. I seem to remember reading somewhere that BMW had figured out how to track the installation of these "tuner" chips with new software upgrades in the N55.. which keeps me from putting one on my wife's X5d. (I'm not sure factually where this stands - can anyone accurately verify? Can BMW actually track a tuner chip?)

The risk of being responsible for an engine because of a tuner chip is enough to deter me from doing so until it's backed by a warranty or BMW, though. I do realize that the juicebox was a hit with many, and I seem to remember mostly good feedback from those that used it..

I actually went looking at what the transmission could handle (to gauge how the transmission could handle the extra power), since the vehicle already has 425 lbs of torque.. but I couldn't find anything on what it was rated for. I'd be interested to see what it's actually rated for, and how that plays into BMW's "lifetime" transmission fluid, powertrain warranty, etc.

The car would definitely come to life a bit more with an increase like above :thumbup: It would also probably give my wife more opportunity to get into speeding trouble though :rofl:

Emission 09-25-2011 11:45 PM

I believe the transmission in the X5 35d is a ZF 6HP28 (formerly 6HP26 TU).

http://www.obitet.gazi.edu.tr/techno...F%20SHIFTS.htm

It is rated at 700 Nm, or 520 pound-feet of torque!

Now, the chip does not void your warranty any more than a cell phone voids your warranty. True, if your Bluetooth gets fried and they determine your aftermarket cell phone did it they will deny the warranty coverage... but the rest of the car is still covered. Likewise, if you burn out a turbo and they determine you had an aftermarket chip it is your problem... but every other system on the vehicle is still covered. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Truth is, most chips "trick" the ECU into delivering more boost... normal boost that would normally be used at high altitude, hot operating conditions, etc... nothing that far out of the ordinary. As a result, the rest of the engine's systems compensate with more fuel, unique timing, etc...

- Mike

ard 09-26-2011 12:54 AM

My bias it this:

On a new car, stuff happens- if a car is modded and a defect totally unrelated to the mod occurs, BMW will likely deny any driveline claim due to the mods. This is their policy once the technician says "modified".

I'd give it 10-20k to shake out, then take the plunge.

I do not believe most owners can afford to be protected by Moss magnussen... Mike, with all due respect, your interpretation of 'voiding of warranty' and the practical aspects of how this will be enforced with BMW is not 'misinformation'. Operating a motor at higher outputs CAN adversely affect every other component in the driveline- rods, crank, transmission, etc. To think a 'chip' can only result in a 'blown turbo' is quite simplistic. Practically speaking many owners are stuck with the choice to litigate with BMWNA over a $20k repair where the cost of the lawsuit will be over $50k (I'm not saying with diesels, but just mods in general). The arguments you cite may be correct, but you will not be able to have an arbiter decide if your position is correct until you've spent way more that the repair on discovery, legal fees, arbitration, etc, etc.

now, if you don't care and are willing to pay your own way, I strongly believe that the best 'chip' is actually reprogramming the DME and not the piggy back stuff- remap it and be done with it.

I did it on my TT at 24k and couldn't have been happier.

A

PS No chip is 'undetectable'. You can clear the the 'codes' but the DME retains operating range data- if an engine blows up, BMW may send the DME back east to do a forensic exam....they look for this stuff. Burger and others sure do dance around about this, but you will find they only speak of 'clearing codes' and not the op data.

PPS Bottom line? Only do it if you are willing to pay to play...on the unlikely case you DO have an issue. Unlikely but possible.

Emission 09-26-2011 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 6340446)
My bias it this:

On a new car, stuff happens- if a car is modded and a defect totally unrelated tot he mod occurs, BMW will deny any driveline claim due to the mods.

I'd give it 10-20k to shake out.

I do not believe most owners can afford to be protected by Moss magnussen... Mike, with all due respect, your interpretation of 'voiding of warranty' and the practical aspects of how this will be enforced with BMW is not 'misinformation'. Operating a motor at higher outputs CAN adversely affect every other component in the driveline- rods, crank, transmission, etc. To think a 'chip' can only result in a 'blown turbo' is quiteMany owners are stuck with the choice to litigate with BMWNA over a $20k repair where the cost of the lawsuit will be over $50k. The arguments you cite may be correct, but you will not be able to have an arbiter decide if your position is correct until you've spent way more that the repair on discovery, legal fees, arbitration, etc, etc.

now, if you don;'t care and are willing to pay your own way, I strongly beleive that the best 'chip' is actually reprogramming the DME and not the piggy back stuff- remap it and be done with it.

I did it on my TT at 24k and couldn't have been happier.

A

PS No chip is 'undetectable'. You can clear the the 'codes' but the DME retains operating range data- if an engine blows up, BMW may send the DME back east to do a forensic exam....they look for this stuff. Burger and others sure do dance around about this, but you will find they only speak of 'clearing codes' and not the op data.

PPS Bottom line? Only do it if you are willing to pay to play...on the unlikely case you DO have an issue. Unlikely but possible.

What you say is true, no arguments there. :thumbup:

However, I've chipped several of my cars (VW 1.8T Passat, BMW 335i, etc...) and never had even a bit of an issue. I did my homework to ensure nothing "out of the ordinary" would happen. Plus, I didn't screw with anything (crank up boost, etc...).

Both of my BMW service advisers are running Burger Motorsports tunes on their 335d, without worry. When they tell me they have never seen an issue (other than a CEL), I believe them. I'm not in a position to gamble with my warranty, but I also realize that BMW (and every other manufacturer) is very conservative with their factory tune. For example, BMW just introduced its own "power package" for the 335i... we call that an expensive Juicebox. :thumbup:

I see tons of complaints on Autoblog, and I rarely hear about issues with chips and tunes... never from people who leave their tunes stock.

- Mike

UncleJ 09-26-2011 08:30 AM

Mike, I'm with ARD on this one. I would do nothing to my new car for the first 10K miles just to make sure that everything is working like it should (especially the urea system!).:angel: BTW, nice review/story on Corolla. I kept looking for a Corolla amongst the herd he had in the garage, but no joy.

Emission 09-26-2011 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJ (Post 6340698)
Mike, I'm with ARD on this one. I would do nothing to my new car for the first 10K miles just to make sure that everything is working like it should (especially the urea system!).:angel: BTW, nice review/story on Corolla. I kept looking for a Corolla amongst the herd he had in the garage, but no joy.

I agree on waiting, as I always do. I'll likely wait a full six months (7,000 miles) before chipping mine.

Carolla is an interesting character. ;)

- Mike

ard 09-26-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emission (Post 6340755)
Carolla is an interesting character. ;)

- Mike

Big fan of the podcasts from day one, including carcast.

Emission 09-26-2011 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 6341091)
Big fan of the podcasts from day one, including carcast.

I'd met him on the set of The Car Show, but this was the first time going to his home. He doesn't talk as much in person as he does in front of a camera (or mike, for that matter). Nice guy, but I had to keep the conversation going... I thought he'd open up easily. Never did.

He likes BMWs (he had die-cast models of them on his shelves). :thumbup:

- Mike

OneFastX5 09-26-2011 02:35 PM

I just ordered and installed the JBD chip last week set at default settings.
Yes the engine feels a little stronger than before. The notice that came with it says "off road use only" so you may want to take it of for service and smog check if there is (do they smog diesels now?).
Not sure about the mileage yet, I only drove a quarter tank since I installed it. Do others see better, same or worse mileage ?

Emission 09-26-2011 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneFastX5 (Post 6341455)
I just ordered and installed the JBD chip last week set at default settings.
Yes the engine feels a little stronger than before. The notice that came with it says "off road use only" so you may want to take it of for service and smog check if there is (do they smog diesels now?).
Not sure about the mileage yet, I only drove a quarter tank since I installed it. Do others see better, same or worse mileage ?

Since the tune only affects the boost peak, mileage should be nearly identical except for those seconds you hold it full throttle.

For some reason, my mileage increased on my 335i with the tune (maybe the engine broke in?).

- Mike

ChuckGr 09-26-2011 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneFastX5 (Post 6341455)
(do they smog diesels now?).

Yes, diesels require smog checks in California now.

Chuck

alphaod 09-26-2011 07:04 PM

I've read through the thread and it looks like the main reason to not do the mod is because it would be detected by the DME and therefore void your warranty.

So why don't you clear whatever error codes you have and replace the DME if your engine blows up?

Sorry, not very knowledgeable on this….

ard 09-26-2011 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaod (Post 6342006)
I've read through the thread and it looks like the main reason to not do the mod is because it would be detected by the DME and therefore void your warranty.

So why don't you clear whatever error codes you have and replace the DME if your engine blows up?

Sorry, not very knowledgeable on this….

Error codes are only part of the issue- these can be reset, but the murkier issue is can BMW detect operational parameters and surmise that the car was modified?

Also, you don't just 'pop in' a DME (actually a DDE) like it is a spark plug: It must be programmed. And even if somehow you got it programmed, the operating history would be blank and BMW may deny.

Two truths:

1. BMW holds the gold, if they want to deny you are stuck in an expensive challenge.

2. There is a low likelihood of failure, and there is much you can do to minimize risk (risk of a failure due to the programming, risk of detection wherein an unrelated failure is blamed on the flash)... but not totally eliminate it. Just recognize that at the end of the day there is residual risk.

I flashed my 996TT with 24k miles, still under warranty, and have enjoyed it ever since. (and some other goodies too):thumbup: Given the use of the X5d will be horse saddles and groceries, I'd likely not bother with it...

Emission 09-26-2011 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 6342067)
Error codes are only part of the issue- these can be reset, but the murkier issue is can BMW detect operational parameters and surmise that the car was modified?

Also, you don't just 'pop in' a DME (actually a DDE) like it is a spark plug: It must be programmed. And even if somehow you got it programmed, the operating history would be blank and BMW may deny.

Two truths:

1. BMW holds the gold, if they want to deny you are stuck in an expensive challenge.

2. There is a low likelihood of failure, and there is much you can do to minimize risk (risk of a failure due to the programming, risk of detection wherein an unrelated failure is blamed on the flash)... but not totally eliminate it. Just recognize that at the end of the day there is residual risk.

I flashed my 996TT with 24k miles, still under warranty, and have enjoyed it ever since. (and some other goodies too):thumbup: Given the use of the X5d will be horse saddles and groceries, I'd likely not bother with it...

+1

What he says is true.

I've found one of the most important deciding factors on whether or not to chip is your relationship with the dealer. I am on very good terms with my service team, and I have discussed the pros/cons, so I have very little concern.

Oh, yes you can clear codes... but that is fraud. I'm too damn honest to cheat about that.

You flashed a 996TT? What kind of psycho are you??? :rofl:

- Mike

tonka858 09-26-2011 10:50 PM

check out 6speed web site they drop 150 on a new 911 turbo and drive it to a shop for 50k in mods

335i 09-27-2011 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emission (Post 6342344)
+1

What he says is true.

I've found one of the most important deciding factors on whether or not to chip is your relationship with the dealer. I am on very good terms with my service team, and I have discussed the pros/cons, so I have very little concern.

- Mike

This is my biggest area of concern, and makes/breaks my decision. My old SA was open to mods.. but he has since moved on, and I'm not yet 100% trusting of the new one. We've had the initial service done on the X5d, but haven't had the need to interact any since. I never had to question the old SA, but the "new guy" wanted to ignore the squealing right rear brake, and blamed it on my bald tires claiming it was traction control engaging (WTF?? This was at a super slow parking lot crawl) Turned out to be the hill assist feature not adjusted correctly.

So for now, no JBD for me.. until my SA can gain some trust.. :rolleyes:

ard 09-27-2011 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i (Post 6343485)
This is my biggest area of concern, and makes/breaks my decision. My old SA was open to mods.. but he has since moved on, and I'm not yet 100% trusting of the new one. We've had the initial service done on the X5d, but haven't had the need to interact any since. I never had to question the old SA, but the "new guy" wanted to ignore the squealing right rear brake, and blamed it on my bald tires claiming it was traction control engaging (WTF?? This was at a super slow parking lot crawl) Turned out to be the hill assist feature not adjusted correctly.

So for now, no JBD for me.. until my SA can gain some trust.. :rolleyes:

Really good point.


Good luck with the SA... did you ask the old SA who he'd recommend? I'd developed a relationship with the master mechanic who worked with my old SA (on the E39 under warranty)...when the time came to return to BMW warranty world, I asked the mechanic "who should I be talking to"..they know. He put in the word for me and my SA has been nothing short of perfect. Hard to believe, eh?

:)

A

335i 09-28-2011 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 6344377)
Really good point.


Good luck with the SA... did you ask the old SA who he'd recommend? I'd developed a relationship with the master mechanic who worked with my old SA (on the E39 under warranty)...when the time came to return to BMW warranty world, I asked the mechanic "who should I be talking to"..they know. He put in the word for me and my SA has been nothing short of perfect. Hard to believe, eh?

:)

A

It's funny - I actually ran into my old SA at the Mini dealership next door (he's the head of service over there) during the BMW drive event.. I did ask about it, since I was just "assigned" someone for the next service. I took his suggestion (not as though I have a huge selection with a smaller dealership, though), but the brake issue with the 335i had me concerned (and irritated - I had to make another appointment 2 weeks out to have the dumb brake checked again, whereas my old SA would have had me come right in after a service and have it checked). I warned the new SA that all 5 stars would be hard to give in the future if I'm having to make repeat appointments for items that I clearly documented in the initial visit. . Since then, he does enough to get by, but not generally any more than required.

I don't purchase my cars from that dealership, as they are horrible with sales - but they seem to keep track of these kinds of details. When the M3 goes in for the initial service, I plan to visit a bit with the master mechanic and get a better relationship established (and possibly a bit more seasoned SA), as I will likely be adding a few goodies to the M3, and would like a pleasant and hassle free warranty experience. A service advisor that cares and enjoys the job makes all the difference sometimes.


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