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-   -   X5d or 35i Premium (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=574497)

Yukon2008 10-12-2011 07:16 AM

X5d or 35i Premium
 
Trading in my '08 535xi (like an old Fiat, great when it runs, but . . . ) for an X5, most likely 35i Premium. Why are the diesels so popular on this board? I wonder if I should rethink. I thought no diesel because:
  • reliability (probably most important after the HPFF and injector problems on the 535. I don't have time to deal with another tempermental car)
  • slower (already giving up a some speed moving from the 535)
  • fewer stations with diesel (I often drive to the last drop and spend lots of times in remote mountain areas with few stations)

Against those, the pluses for the diesel seem to be:
  • better for the environment
  • better fuel economy (and less fill-ups)
  • greater torque (but I don't tow anything)

Am I missing something? Thanks for any insight.

Matt_UKTX 10-12-2011 07:32 AM

I had the same dilema, in the end I went for the diesel. I'm leasing so one factor for me was that the diesel had a lower residual, but monthly payment was the same due to all the credits. This will help me at the end of my lease if I either want to buy the car, or trade it in. I nearly always prefer to trade it in to get the sales tax credits (we have to pay sales tax on the full amount of the car in Texas, not just the payment).

Also, I liked the idea of the torque (makes the car feel faster than it is), plus I do mostly highway driving, so fuel economy will be better.

I was tempted by the 35si with the new eight speed transmission, but the six speed transmission in the dielsel is bulletproof. I had a 535i before this car (very similar to you) and also had HPFP issues. I thought that engine was great in the 535i, but the X5 is MUCH heavier, so I figured the extra torque would give the car more pep. You can also buy a chip for the diesel for under $300 that will give you another 60hp. Not bad.

Finally, it's just something different. I've been wanting to get a diesel car forever just to try it. Worst case, if I don't like it, I just have to get through 3 years (or 2.5 years with pull ahead programs) so no big deal.

hotbox99 10-12-2011 07:37 AM

I supposed to take delivery of my 35D soon, so I can't speak to the reliability issue, but the other two pros (economy and environment) outweigh most everything else for me (diesel fuel seems to be sold everywhere around here, too). With the rebates currently available, that made the diesel all that more attractive.

Since you are in remote areas a lot, the added range of a tank of fuel in the diesel should probably be listed as a pro as well.

And even though you don't tow anything, the added torque should give you quite a bit of value in mountain driving.

Just my 2 cents....

SeanL-PA 10-12-2011 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon2008 (Post 6374485)
Trading in my '08 535xi (like an old Fiat, great when it runs, but . . . ) for an X5, most likely 35i Premium. Why are the diesels so popular on this board? I wonder if I should rethink. I thought no diesel because:
  • reliability (probably most important after the HPFF and injector problems on the 535. I don't have time to deal with another tempermental car)
  • slower (already giving up a some speed moving from the 535)
  • fewer stations with diesel (I often drive to the last drop and spend lots of times in remote mountain areas with few stations)

Against those, the pluses for the diesel seem to be:
  • better for the environment
  • better fuel economy (and less fill-ups)
  • greater torque (but I don't tow anything)

Am I missing something? Thanks for any insight.

One thing you might want to take into consideration: diesel is noticeably louder at idle.

Matt_UKTX 10-12-2011 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL-PA (Post 6375158)
One thing you might want to take into consideration: diesel is noticeably louder at idle.

I really don't think it's a huge difference, plus I actually like the sound. That's just my two cents. To me, the diesel sounds meaty... Almost angry, like it's ready to tear up the road. I agree the sound of the X5si is more refined, but on a "Sports Activity Vehicle" I'm not sure that's a plus. Also, the diesel is actually quieter at cruising speed on the highway.

kugasman 10-12-2011 08:17 PM

For about the same price, it's hard to not go with the diesel unless you have a problem with the engine sound or really can't find a diesel gas station.

Slower: 35d is 0.3-0.4s slower 0-60, but likely faster 30-80mph.

Reliability: I'd personally take my chances with the M57 diesel engine and 6sp transmission over the 35i adn 8sp. Hard to make a convincing argument either way.

Fuel Economy/Eco Friendly: No arguing here and this was a big factor for me. Significantly better fuel economy with very very little sacrifice in performance (if any, see above). That in itself is amazing.

It's a personal decision and in the end you have to make YOU happy, not us. Either is a great choice.

Good luck!

gcaa 10-13-2011 12:52 AM

You should keep the diesel as an option IMHO (no need to limit your options). As far as personal feedback, we passed on the diesel for two reasons:

1) It's a bit tougher to find diesel and I wanted my wife to have the convenience of gas. The mpg in the 35i is not stellar but it's better than I expected. Our 35i will get up to 24 mpg highway if I keep it at around 70 mph. Keep in mind that diesels tend to get great mpg on the highway but less so if you do mostly city driving.

2) If I choose to keep the vehicle passed the warranty period, I would rather not have to worry about all the extra components BMW has to add to make this vehicle a clean diesel (heaters, pumps, sensors etc). Checkout the technology, it's not rocket science but it's not simple either.

I terms overall reliability, if you actually keep either long enough, the electronics and other components will have problems far sooner than the engine will so that is a non-issue in my opinion. In the end, they are both great cars. Definitely test drive both back to back and see which you like better. Some people have complained about the noisier diesel engine so that's something to pay attention to during the test drive.

Matt_UKTX 10-13-2011 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcaa (Post 6376389)
You should keep the diesel as an option IMHO (no need to limit your options). As far as personal feedback, we passed on the diesel for two reasons:

1) It's a bit tougher to find diesel and I wanted my wife to have the convenience of gas. The mpg in the 35i is not stellar but it's better than I expected. Our 35i will get up to 24 mpg highway if I keep it at around 70 mph. Keep in mind that diesels tend to get great mpg on the highway but less so if you do mostly city driving.

2) If I choose to keep the vehicle passed the warranty period, I would rather not have to worry about all the extra components BMW has to add to make this vehicle a clean diesel (heaters, pumps, sensors etc). Checkout the technology, it's not rocket science but it's not simple either.

I terms overall reliability, if you actually keep either long enough, the electronics and other components will have problems far sooner than the engine will so that is a non-issue in my opinion. In the end, they are both great cars. Definitely test drive both back to back and see which you like better. Some people have complained about the noisier diesel engine so that's something to pay attention to during the test drive.

Great summary...

Are you buying or leasing? If leasing, you can actually get the 50i on lease right now for less than the 35i and 35d, because the residual is much higher.

spencer842 10-13-2011 08:31 AM

Yukon2008,

I recently purchased a 2012 X5 35i Premium. I traded a 2011 335xi that was as temperamental as a mid 80's Peugeot. I considered the diesel very carefully as well. I certainly recommend you test drive then both. I have owned a few diesels in the past. A 1978 300D MB, 1984 Peugeot 505s TurboDiesel, a 1988 6.2 litre Suburban and a 2005 VW Jetta TDI. So, I'm a huge fan of diesels. The X5 diesel was a strong contender for me, but with the modest fuel economy gain, more pronounced turbo lag, a urea injection system that has been known to act up on occasion, less than stellar cold weather performance (I live in Denver), I opted for the 35i. The 35i is a very refined smooth engine and the 8sd is great in the mountains. I average 17.2mpg in all city driving and 24mpg on highway (road trip to Moab,UT).

Hope this helps!
Spencer

RPsX5d 10-13-2011 12:02 PM

Heavy Steering Wheel - no active steering for diesels
 
1 Attachment(s)
One more thing to keep in mind . . . gas version come with the "active steering" option, diesels do not. If steering load is critical, active steering is a must.

Yes the steering is heavy on the non-active-steering version I have (2011 diesel).

I always liked slightly heavy steering versus the "Cadillac feel", so this was a non-issue for me.

Not sure why diesels cannot have active-steering, here is one of my other posts talking a bit more about why diesel does not have active steering - Steering Wheel. Note - this info is a bit dated!

Matt_UKTX 10-13-2011 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPsX5d (Post 6377310)
Not sure why diesels cannot have active-steering

It's because there is not enough room for it in the engine bay. I believe the diesel engine takes up all the space. I remember reading a post about this that stated something similar.

I'm also with RP. I don't like the wonky "Active" steering. I love the heavy planted feel of regular BMW steering.

jarppis 10-14-2011 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_330i (Post 6377332)
It's because there is not enough room for it in the engine bay. I believe the diesel engine takes up all the space. I remember reading a post about this that stated something similar.

I'm also with RP. I don't like the wonky "Active" steering. I love the heavy planted feel of regular BMW steering.

In Europe you can get the active steering with diesels, so it's not an space issue.

0428 10-14-2011 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarppis (Post 6378748)
In Europe you can get the active steering with diesels, so it's not an space issue.

Americans are fatter than Europeans, so that's why there's less space on US models. :D

RPsX5d 10-14-2011 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarppis (Post 6378748)
In Europe you can get the active steering with diesels, so it's not an space issue.

Does the European diesels have the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) tanks inside the engine bay? I noticed mine has two DEF tanks inside the engine bay - one each on passenger and driver side.

I too find it hard to believe lack of space is the reason BMW is not offering active steering on U.S. diesels.

jarppis 10-14-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPsX5d (Post 6379194)
Does the European diesels have the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) tanks inside the engine bay? I noticed mine has two DEF tanks inside the engine bay - one each on passenger and driver side.

I too find it hard to believe lack of space is the reason BMW is not offering active steering on U.S. diesels.

Not sure about the DEF tanks. I just looked from the EU spec sheet, what are the available options for a X5 diesel (30d and 40d)

Collie1 10-21-2011 11:36 AM

You should scout out the gas stations in your area to see who has diesel gas. When you see how convenient it will be to fill up...then you can cross that concern off your list. I love my x5d. Test drive one before you buy because it is a stiffer ride. It is louder on idle, but I have driven other non-diesel BMWs and I don't think my d is any louder then the regular gas in drive. Go for it! You will love it!

AutoUnion 10-21-2011 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPsX5d (Post 6377310)
One more thing to keep in mind . . . gas version come with the "active steering" option, diesels do not. If steering load is critical, active steering is a must.

Yes the steering is heavy on the non-active-steering version I have (2011 diesel).

I always liked slightly heavy steering versus the "Cadillac feel", so this was a non-issue for me.

Not sure why diesels cannot have active-steering, here is one of my other posts talking a bit more about why diesel does not have active steering - Steering Wheel. Note - this info is a bit dated!

Why would you want the neutered active steering? It, IMO, ruins the whole point of the X5. It has superb steering feel, even though it might be heavy. One of the reasons why I got the BMW.

AutoUnion 10-21-2011 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarppis (Post 6378748)
In Europe you can get the active steering with diesels, so it's not an space issue.

EU has diff't engines. They have the 30d and 40d, both different engines from the US spec 35d. Not to mention, I don't think the EU mkt cars have urea. Not sure though

hyde 10-21-2011 01:19 PM

I always thought we couldn't get a diesel passenger vehicle in New York City unless it is registered under a business with commercial plate, so I never even looked at a Diesel model.
Another reason I always passed on diesel was because there was no benefit at the pump. $3.69/gal vs $4.29/gal in the city when comparing to regular unleaded. But since X5 uses premium, the difference becomes minimal at pump, but beneficial at mpg.
Also the choices will be limited, you won't be able to easily get diesel fuel in the city, and if you do, you might have to wait for the truck to fill up before it is your turn since they almost always have single pumps. Out of city is a different story, though.. If you are in Boston, I am not sure how this will affect you.

RPsX5d 10-22-2011 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 6393849)
Why would you want the neutered active steering? It, IMO, ruins the whole point of the X5. It has superb steering feel, even though it might be heavy. One of the reasons why I got the BMW.

Agree with you - the non active steering is indeed one of the things I like about BMW steering . . . but I have come across several folks who actually love everything about the car except the steering load - they HATE it! Seriously doubt those are the types active on this forum! :)

As I understand it (I have not actually done this comparison), the active part only kicks in at lower/parking lot speeds . . . at hwy speeds, both (with and without active steering) should feel about the same. i.e. the "spirited" driving you can do with a heavy steering is still doable with active steering installed.

RPsX5d 10-22-2011 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 6393851)
EU has diff't engines. They have the 30d and 40d, both different engines from the US spec 35d. Not to mention, I don't think the EU mkt cars have urea. Not sure though

Looks like EU X5s may not have them (not very sure) . . . here is a one-liner that says they don't need them until 2014.

AutoUnion 10-22-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPsX5d (Post 6395444)
Looks like EU X5s may not have them (not very sure) . . . here is a one-liner that says they don't need them until 2014.

Yeah, on the UK site, there is no mention of the urea system on the 40d spec sheet.

AutoUnion 10-22-2011 09:58 AM

Why I picked the diesel over the 35i:

1. better, more usable power in every day life
2. significantly better MPG
3. better range (that "Diesel stations are hard to find" excuse is just pure ****)
4. higher residuals (diesels are holding value much more than the 35i)
5. costs about the same
6. rarer
7. better on the highway than the 35i
8. more reliable. it's a proven powertrain that's been in use overseas for a long time.

RPsX5d 10-22-2011 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyde (Post 6394010)
. . . Another reason I always passed on diesel was because there was no benefit at the pump. $3.69/gal vs $4.29/gal in the city when comparing to regular unleaded. But since X5 uses premium, the difference becomes minimal at pump, but beneficial at mpg.
Also the choices will be limited, you won't be able to easily get diesel fuel in the city, . . .

This is just my opinion . . .
  • Oil companies will strive to price diesel such that "btu parity" is preserved. i.e. they rather not "give away" BTUs. Sometimes local supply/demand situations get in the way and diesel/petrol prices flip. Some countries tax petrol a lot more, so petrol ends up being more expensive. IMO, don't buy diesel just for some small savings on your monthly fuel bill, buy it for other reasons.
  • For me, the 425 ft-lbs at 1,750 rpm was the BIG winner - I launch from the traffic light like an 8-cylinder, but I also enjoy the 6-cylinder mileage - sort of - have one's cake and eat it too!
  • Yes improved mileage is easy on the wallet . . . but the bigger advantage for me was - fewer visits to the gas station! I rather spend that saved time to put an extra shine on my black sapphire! :D
  • For most people, your credit card bill will show, for a given month, you purchased fuel from no more than two or three gas stations. So check to see if your two or three stations carry diesel, chances are you will find one within a three mile radius from your house/work or other places you frequent regularly. This is a non issue if you are on a hwy . . . all truck stops have diesel. Okay you will look a tad puny parked next to an 18-wheeler! :)

Karen A Smith 10-28-2011 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 6393851)
EU has diff't engines. They have the 30d and 40d, both different engines from the US spec 35d. Not to mention, I don't think the EU mkt cars have urea. Not sure though

EU does have some cars (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Volkswagen) that use the Urea injection (official product name for urea in automotives is "AdBlue" in EU and "Diesel Exhaust Fluid" (DEF) in US. EU Heavy duty vehicles have been using it since 2006.


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