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-   -   x5 4.4i v8 smoke problems PLEASE HELP! (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578791)

maxsarubbi 11-02-2011 04:32 AM

x5 4.4i v8 smoke problems PLEASE HELP!
 
Hi all!
Iím new in this forum. I bought an x5 4.4i v8 sport a month ago, the vehicle is flawless. But last week I noticed that if the engine is on, without accelerating for about 5 minutes it starts to blow white smoke from the exhaust, if you start driving the smoke disappear, it has like 83000miles on it. The pre owner told me that the car was sitting in the garage without use for some time I changed the oil two days ago to see if the problem stops but it doesnít. I took all the sparks out to see if any is wet with oil but all sparks where clean and dry. Can somebody help me with ideas of what the problem can be?
Thanks a lot!!
maxsarubbi

HPIA4v2 11-02-2011 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxsarubbi (Post 6415885)
Hi all!
Iím new in this forum. I bought an x5 4.4i v8 sport a month ago, the vehicle is flawless. But last week I noticed that if the engine is on, without accelerating for about 5 minutes it starts to blow white smoke from the exhaust, if you start driving the smoke disappear, it has like 83000miles on it. The pre owner told me that the car was sitting in the garage without use for some time I changed the oil two days ago to see if the problem stops but it doesnít. I took all the sparks out to see if any is wet with oil but all sparks where clean and dry. Can somebody help me with ideas of what the problem can be?
Thanks a lot!!
maxsarubbi

You may want to check this one thread on 545i:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=576644

no tsure bit could be a variety of things, like oil-separator/CCV, valve lifter etc
Hard to say.

maxsarubbi 11-02-2011 12:37 PM

Thank you!

chasz17 11-05-2011 05:34 AM

BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!

maytag 10-14-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasz17 (Post 6422132)
BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!

Hello all:
my first post here.... I'll go introduce myself elsewhere in a minute.

I recently purchased an '05 X5 4.4i, and it quickly developed a smoking-problem, which is how I came to find this thread.
I think I've got the smoking issue under control.... but I'm curious about the post directly above, that I've quoted here.

Could somebody expound on that idea?

Surely this must be BMW's attempt at environmental-responsibility? It can't be a mechanical requirement of the drive-train, can it? I've never heard of such a thing, and would be suspect of any claim that a modern vehicle is not capable of even extended time sitting at idle. :dunno:

This is important to me, because of the primary use of this vehicle for me. So an explanation is appreciated.

TIA! :thumbup:

made217 10-15-2013 06:05 PM

OK.... you guys have me worried now. I just bought an X5 a few days ago. And yes, I see the white smoke pouring out of the driver's side exhaust. A month ago, I bought a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee and it was doing the same thing. When I took it back to the dealership, they kept it a week then said it was bad. Something about the oil pan in that year's model being turned around and allowing oil to seep into the pistons. So they took it back. Now, I'm obviously concerned it's the same problem. And as far as the idling thing goes.... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Cars idle! In driveways, at stoplights, to check things.... I don't get the "Don't let it idle" thing.

maytag 10-18-2013 10:11 AM

Made217, it looks like you and I are on our own here. It seems that if we're not bitchin' about Obama, then our posts on this forum will fail to attract any attention.

The only comfort I take in this is that since it only smokes at idle, I can rule-out most mechanical-failures, like valve guides/seals, piston-rings, etc etc. It must certainly be attributable to the CCV / Oil Separator system.

I'm working on it this weekend, and I'll update then.

made217 10-18-2013 10:51 AM

Hey... Thanks Maytag, and yes, I too thought this was a BMW forum and NOT an Obama forum.
Appreciate your comments, man. Let me know what you find out!

A B Able Truck 10-19-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 7905266)
Made217, it looks like you and I are on our own here. It seems that if we're not bitchin' about Obama, then our posts on this forum will fail to attract any attention.
The only comfort I take in this is that since it only smokes at idle, I can rule-out most mechanical-failures, like valve guides/seals, piston-rings, etc etc. It must certainly be attributable to the CCV / Oil Separator system.
I'm working on it this weekend, and I'll update then.

This issue has been beaten to death - there are many opinions - but in my opinion you start with the obvious - a quick search on any forum will bring up all kinds of info (the N62 is in 545s,550s,650s,750s and more - all with the same issue) But here's some links:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=718963

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/member.php?u=346089

http://forums.5series.net/e60-parts-...p-pics-133703/

maytag 10-19-2013 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A B Able Truck (Post 7907236)
This issue has been beaten to death - there are many opinions - but in my opinion you start with the obvious -

'preciate that..... but you didn't read my question, did you?
Because your links do not have ANYTHING to do with BMW's supposed directive as cited above: "BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!"

A B Able Truck 10-19-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 7907456)
'preciate that..... but you didn't read my question, did you?
Because your links do not have ANYTHING to do with BMW's supposed directive as cited above: "BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!"

Sorry, didn't catch that -
But I've read a ton of info on this issue and have not run across any documentation or "expert" opinion to the posters assertion.

desertviking 11-12-2013 08:50 PM

x5 4.4i v8 smoke problems PLEASE HELP!
 
You are not going to like this.
Mine did the same exact thing. It was the dreaded valve stem repair. ($3600) at indie garage. As soon as I mentioned it to my mechanic he knew what it was.
I asked him if I could just put it off since it ran fine. He advices that the extra smoke can mess up the catalytic converter. What I did was that I trusted the little indicator regarding oil change. I think that was a mistake in that I drove way too long between oil changes.
Hope that helps you.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

maytag 11-14-2013 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertviking (Post 7953501)
You are not going to like this.
Mine did the same exact thing. It was the dreaded valve stem repair. ($3600) at indie garage. As soon as I mentioned it to my mechanic he knew what it was.
I asked him if I could just put it off since it ran fine. He advices that the extra smoke can mess up the catalytic converter. What I did was that I trusted the little indicator regarding oil change. I think that was a mistake in that I drove way too long between oil changes.
Hope that helps you.

My problem has been completely resolved with the oil-separator replacement (both sides). Much less expensive than the repair you did. (and my dealer did it for free, since it was clearly an existing condition when I purchased the car)

ADVer 11-15-2013 07:39 PM

x5 4.4i v8 smoke problems PLEASE HELP!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chasz17 (Post 6422132)
BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!

I think this is just a tongue-in-cheek comment. He's just being funny.
I wouldn't worry about it.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Keepittrill 11-15-2013 08:13 PM

x5 4.4i v8 smoke problems PLEASE HELP!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ADVer (Post 7959660)
I think this is just a tongue-in-cheek comment. He's just being funny.
I wouldn't worry about it.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Actually, no. In my manual, it said the same thing.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

wmgerlach 02-19-2014 02:33 PM

I also have been reserching this issue, because I have 2005 x5 with the 4.4. with 130000miles and been smokeing for the past 30k. But it also will effect the catalytic convertors if I don't fix this issue, soon or they will need to be replaced also. What I have learned from this is more than likely it is valve seals. If you have checked the ccv by all means first check your ccv, then probally the dreaded valve seals. Granted I am not a expert bmw technician, but I do work with diesel engines and build engines in the past. This issue is prone to the 4.4,4.6 and,4.8 all v eight engines. If you go to allgermanauto web site they have a tool kit to replace seals while not removing heads or cams. But what they don't mention is valve stem or guid wear. From research the stem ca have up to .019 they call it tilt clearance, measured from the cylindar side wwith the valve partially removed but not all the way. That is a lot of clearance so it may be posible to change seals and not remove the cylidar heads or cams, cheaper than removing heads and have then sent to machine shop. Which this job would not be for the typical diy. You would need some experiacne in my opinion. My x5 is a love hate relationship. Great to drive untill the bmw issues come up. Oil leaks seals failing etc. Lastly I would like to hear from someone that has replaced seals and did it work and for how long sice it was done. Over all I come to expect less from bmw, they were smart they built a auto with the idea sell another within the 50k mile range and its all new and under warranty. Best of luck to you.

QSilver7 02-20-2014 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 7897028)
...I'm curious about the post...that I've quoted here.

Could somebody expound on that idea?

Surely this must be BMW's attempt at environmental-responsibility? It can't be a mechanical requirement of the drive-train, can it? I've never heard of such a thing, and would be suspect of any claim that a modern vehicle is not capable of even extended time sitting at idle. :dunno:
Quote:

Originally Posted by chasz17
BMW specifically states that once you start the engine to begin driving immediately. Do not let it idle!!!


Your original assumption was correct. Not sure why many owners hear of...or read this info in the owners manual and fall off the deep end of the pool. In hindsight, it probably should have been written as "no need to let the engine idle"...instead of the strongly worded "DO NOT LET IT IDLE!!!"

With most modern cars having direct fuel injections and catalytic converters. ...and the build tolerances are much better now than 50 years ago...there's no need to idle (to let the car warm up). There's even a cold engine warm up cycle the engine will automatically choose if oil temp is low enough...that helps warm up the engine and catalysts (see info below).

The comment in the owners manual gets taken out of context or blown out of proportion when not considered in where its printed in the owners manual (about cold starts of the engine). It is not a MANDATE to never idle (that would be totally impossible in large urban areas that have daily rush hour traffic slow downs & city grid lock).


(the page below is from my e38's owners manual...but is written in most BMW's owners manuals)

http://bimmerboard.com/members/q/ori...d%20Engine.jpg

http://bimmerboard.com/members/q/ori...Up%20Cycle.jpg

Again, common sense and simple understanding can go along way in interpreting what the owners manual intent is. Some think itís easier on the car to let it sit and gently warm up, but there's some good reasons doing so is not that good for the car. Most importantly, it does waste gas...and it can eventually be bad for the catalytic converters.

Our BMWs use electronic fuel injection. When the carís engine is cold, the computer tells the fuel injectors to stay open longer, allowing more fuel into the engine to help it run cold. As the engine warms up, the injectors let in less fuel and everything returns to normal, so to speak.

A problem with letting your car sit and idle is...it's the slowest way to bring it up to operating temperature because itís sitting in your drive at just above idle speed. This method to warming up can invite other problems. Remember that modern cars are equipped with a multitude of devices to help them run clean, including a catalytic converter ... that works to burn off unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream. A cold engine emits a far higher percentage of unburned hydrocarbons than a warm engine. Unfortunately, the average catalytic converter canít process 100 percent of unburned hydrocarbons even in the best of times. Importantly, the catalytic converter needs high exhaust temperatures to work properly. Throw in a cold engine emitting a high percentage of unburned hydrocarbons, repeat several hundred times, and you can end up with whatís called a ďpluggedĒ converter. In a nutshell, the converter becomes overwhelmed and literally ceases to function. This wonít happen all at once but over time, the end effect is the same: poor mileage and significantly dirtier exhaust.

The best bet? Even when itís 10 degrees F outside, start your car, let it run for 30 to 60 seconds to get all the fluids moving, then drive off gently. Your engine will warm up faster, your exhaust system will get up to temperature faster so the catalytic converter can do its thing, and youíll use less fuel.

This is the perspective of the statement in the owners manual to "start up engine & drive off immediately at a moderate engine speed". :)

wmgerlach 02-23-2014 07:05 PM

Smoke. Bmw
 
So what does no idle on start up have to do with sitting at a stop light ?dont overfill with oil also helps , but again what does that have to do with sitting at a light? So you say shut engine off at all lights? Short warm up at least give the oil a chance to get to the lifters before you drive.

FREE100KSECRET 02-25-2014 08:04 AM

Do Not Idle At Start????
 
I read this and had to laugh, it surely is stated in books because BMW knows full well about their crap valve seal issues, so they want to prolong the discovery until warranty expires so they can rip you off for thousands to repair. It is called programed failure in the auto industry, and they all do it. lol For those who traditionally let their vehicle warm up before driving off, it would be pretty obvious to see the huge smoke cloud they leave when backing out of driveway.

Think about it, this do not idle at start is total BS, anyone can tell you that low RPM is critical in a stone cold motor when oil is not properly lubricating engine until warm, so the most friction and damage happens during cold starts. The same holds true for transmissions, so cold weather is the enemy, but the BMW bible doesn't say anything about the weather, and it has been stone cold throughout U.S. this year. Why do you think engines are noisy during first start in stone cold weather, lack of lubrication, that's why, so BMW is total BS on subject of do not idle on start as I have learned.

I have owned a dozen BMW's over the years, and I always let my vehicles warm up first before hitting road. I have a 528i with 276K on it and it doesn't use a drop of oil in the 5K to 7K intervals between oil changes, doesn't even leak a drop, and I used Mobile 1 and have never had any part replaced in engine, other than oil filters obviously, and alternator finally went, belt and tensioner were replaced, not even water pump has gone bad, nothing else motor wise, so go figure. Best car I ever owned.

Good luck,

bmwubble 03-30-2014 06:01 AM

oil
 
What grade of Mobil 1 ?

FREE100KSECRET 03-30-2014 04:59 PM

I used 10-30 weight Mobile 1.

bmwubble 03-30-2014 07:05 PM

Different strokes for different folks
 
I am running Castrol Edge 5w40 in my 2004 x5 4.4 and my mate runs Castrol Edge 10w 60 in his 4.6is x5 otherwise we have oil leaks every where . Here on the mid north coast south of Brisbane the coldest day in winter is 24 C and around 38-44 C summer. Cheers !!!


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