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-   -   328i v 335i (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585681)

jackson328xi 12-04-2011 09:59 PM

328i v 335i
 
It seems like the levels of interest in the 328 and 335 have flipped from what they were when the E90 was new. Just wondering what everyone would prefer given the price difference, performance gap, and fuel consumption.

It seems like there is a lot of talk about the N55 not really being a good value next to the N20 (particularly given the potential to tune it) Thoughts?

justinnum1 12-05-2011 05:05 AM

Not gonna lie, i drove the N20 in the Z4(same weight as 328) HOLY ****!!! Cant think why i would need the 335. I have owned 2 35 with the N54 engine, i was really impressed with the toruqe in the N20.

sunny5280 12-05-2011 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson328xi (Post 6480553)
It seems like the levels of interest in the 328 and 335 have flipped from what they were when the E90 was new. Just wondering what everyone would prefer given the price difference, performance gap, and fuel consumption.

It seems like there is a lot of talk about the N55 not really being a good value next to the N20 (particularly given the potential to tune it) Thoughts?

This appears similar to Subaru and their WRX and STI models. My friend just purchased a new WRX. It provides 95% of what the STI does for almost $9,000 less. I can see many people being unable to justify the additional cost of the 335 over the 328 if reviews / comments are to be believed. Especially when one figures in the (alleged) fuel savings.

jgrasty 12-05-2011 02:12 PM

My last BMW was a 2002 325i, 185 hp. That car never felt underpowered, so I can't imagine being disappointed with the 2012 328i at 245 hp.

3ismagic# 12-05-2011 02:26 PM

The marginal utility of the 335i over the 328i has declined in the F30.

tturedraider 12-05-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ismagic# (Post 6481784)
The marginal utility of the 335i over the 328i has declined in the F30.

This is true. But, one of the most basic reasons I drive BMWs is the silky smooth characteristics on the inline six. Even BMW admits in their own official comments regarding the N20 that all their technology has made it ALMOST as smooth as their inline six.

When Merc capitulated and dropped the inline six, for which they had also been famous, and went to the V6 I knew they had quit being a really serious car company. They are now in it ONLY for the money.

I don't think BMW's faithful core would stand for BMW if they discontinued the inline six for the V6.

I have no doubt the N20 is a great little motor. But, something I noticed after I went from my '96 Infiniti G20, which I bought because it was referred to as a Japanese BMW 318i, is that four cylinder engines have to work a lot harder to match the performance of the inline six to perform the same task. And when driven with the same vigor as an inline six they really don't get fuel mileage that is considerably better than the greater displacement six. I have a feeling if N20 owners drive their N20s in the same way they drove their N5x powered cars the real world mileage numbers may not be as rosy as the EPA numbers.

And that's all I have to say about that.

justinnum1 12-05-2011 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 6482223)
This is true. But, one of the most basic reasons I drive BMWs is the silky smooth characteristics on the inline six. Even BMW admits in their own official comments regarding the N20 that all their technology has made it ALMOST as smooth as their inline six.

When Merc capitulated and dropped the inline six, for which they had also been famous, and went to the V6 I knew they had quit being a really serious car company. They are now in it ONLY for the money.

I don't think BMW's faithful core would stand for BMW if they discontinued the inline six for the V6.

I have no doubt the N20 is a great little motor. But, something I noticed after I went from my '96 Infiniti G20, which I bought because it was referred to as a Japanese BMW 318i, is that four cylinder engines have to work a lot harder to match the performance of the inline six to perform the same task. And when driven with the same vigor as an inline six they really don't get fuel mileage that is considerably better than the greater displacement six. I have a feeling if N20 owners drive their N20s in the same way they drove their N5x powered cars the real world mileage numbers may not be as rosy as the EPA numbers.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Have you driven the N20 yet?

johnc_22 12-05-2011 06:11 PM

I voted 328i, but until I can build my own on BMW with desired options, it's hard to say. The 335i does have some stuff standard that could reduce the differential in pricing if you were going too opt for those things on a 328i. Not about to get rid of my current 335i yet, but probably in a year or two when the F32 is available.

tturedraider 12-05-2011 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 6482255)
Have you driven the N20 yet?

No. But, I am familiar with the inherent engineering design differences between an inline four cylinder and an inline six cylinder. When I read BMW's own press that stated their design efforts had made the N20 ALMOST as smooth running as the inline six that said something to me that I consider significant.

I'm not saying the N20 is not a good engine choice. Just that it is not (and can't be by virtue of design) as smooth and silky as its predecessor inline sixes.

justinnum1 12-05-2011 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 6482303)
No. But, I am familiar with the inherent engineering design differences between an inline four cylinder and an inline six cylinder. When I read BMW's own press that stated their design efforts had made the N20 ALMOST as smooth running as the inline six that said something to me that I consider significant.

I'm not saying the N20 is not a good engine choice. Just that it is not (and can't be by virtue of design) as smooth and silky as its predecessor inline sizes.

I drove it and thought it was pretty smooth. The torque reminded me of my N54. You should test drive it when it comes out, or drive a Z4 28i.

kck7 12-05-2011 06:54 PM

I drove the N20 in the Z4 as well. It is NOT smooth like the eye-sixes. What it is, is boisterous, loud(ish) and gives off an aura more of fun than elegance. Which is fine if that's what one is after. The Brit mags' moniker for the 3 series is 'small executive saloon' and the sound and feel of this engine doesn't line up with that image IMO. It might sound different in the F30. But when I looked at the running motor with the hood up that sucker was shaking like it was under an epileptic fit.

Performance was quite good btw. Not sure if the F30 is a heavier car so that could factor (sure someone knows this off the top of their head; am too lazy to look it up).

As others have noted, I expect the F30 with N20 will sell incredibly well despite any of this. Maybe because of this.

justinnum1 12-05-2011 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kck7 (Post 6482347)
I drove the N20 in the Z4 as well. It is NOT smooth like the eye-sixes. What it is, is boisterous, loud(ish) and gives off an aura more of fun than elegance. Which is fine if that's what one is after. The Brit mags' moniker for the 3 series is 'small executive saloon' and the sound and feel of this engine doesn't line up with that image IMO. It might sound different in the F30.

Performance was quite good btw. Not sure if the F30 is a heavier car so that could factor (sure someone knows this off the top of their head; am too lazy to look it up).

As others have noted, I expect the F30 with N20 will sell incredibly well despite any of this. Maybe because of this.

I think the f30 328 is less than 100lbs heavier than the Z4

JonF30 12-05-2011 08:44 PM

My past two cars have had the VW 1.8T and 2.0T. Another good turbo 4 (even a better one) doesn't feel like enough of an upgrade on a car costing 10-15k more.

Inline 6 *is the brand* for this child of the 80s. First ride was in a relative's E28 535i manual. The sound it made while accelerating and the overall feel of the car was... memorable. (My parents had a Subaru).

335i standard feature set is pretty complete for me. Wood, roof, 18s, xenons. Sport Pkg would be nice option, but don't care for the look of the "line". 328 needs options that bring the prices close.

No doubt N20 will be a great engine, and seems the right direction for the 3, as long as they keep the 6 as an option. A little harder to take in 50k Z4 or any kind of 5 series though. I know this is where the world is going, but not ready to modernize my thinking yet.

F30 will be my first Bimmer. You guys have been enjoying the inline 6 while I watched from the sidelines. N20 and ZF 8-speed auto may both be superb, but I don't think psychologically I can let my first BMW have a 4 banger and a slushbox. ;)

accel 12-05-2011 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 6482255)
Have you driven the N20 yet?

I feel that n20 will be very similar to mini cooper's turbo. The engine is very fuel efficient. I recall one of my remarkable drives... Start from SF Bay Area early in the morning with full tank of fuel and have very relaxed drive along coastal hwy 1 towards Hearst Castle, - frequent stops, sightseing... Upon arrival to Hearst i realized - only about quarter tank of fuel was used!

On my way back I wanted to get home quick, so i took 101 and pushed my MCS hard. So It was freeway drive, no stops, but spirited drive above speed limit. Wnen i got home the tank was next to empty.

So if you push it - it'll get thirsty.

justinnum1 12-06-2011 01:05 AM

The N20 feels like it has as much torque as the N55.

16n69 12-06-2011 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrasty (Post 6481757)
My last BMW was a 2002 325i, 185 hp. That car never felt underpowered, so I can't imagine being disappointed with the 2012 328i at 245 hp.

Hey there...funny to see your post (not "funny" as in he,he,ha,ha...lol:D)...
...but my 1st BMW, and get ready for this, the one I would keep if I could ONLY have one car, is the 2002 325i (or any 330i up to 2006).
Your correct, allegedly under 200HP & Torque, but smooth as butter, wonderfull throttle response and never feels under-powered in city-hwy driving. Great mpg's and still lgiht & nimble enough with that magical BMW "balance":thumbup:

If the F30 328 can come close to that overall "feel" & "balance" (not too sure about that...:dunno:, but we will see?)
I prefer the "throttle" response and smoothness of the NA engines, the N52 & the S65 in my M3.
:)

16n69 12-06-2011 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 6482223)
This is true. But, one of the most basic reasons I drive BMWs is the silky smooth characteristics on the inline six. Even BMW admits in their own official comments regarding the N20 that all their technology has made it ALMOST as smooth as their inline six.

When Merc capitulated and dropped the inline six, for which they had also been famous, and went to the V6 I knew they had quit being a really serious car company. They are now in it ONLY for the money.

I don't think BMW's faithful core would stand for BMW if they discontinued the inline six for the V6.

I have no doubt the N20 is a great little motor. But, something I noticed after I went from my '96 Infiniti G20, which I bought because it was referred to as a Japanese BMW 318i, is that four cylinder engines have to work a lot harder to match the performance of the inline six to perform the same task. And when driven with the same vigor as an inline six they really don't get fuel mileage that is considerably better than the greater displacement six. I have a feeling if N20 owners drive their N20s in the same way they drove their N5x powered cars the real world mileage numbers may not be as rosy as the EPA numbers.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Well stated, REALLY well stated...+1x100:thumbup:

16n69 12-06-2011 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonF30 (Post 6482555)
My past two cars have had the VW 1.8T and 2.0T. Another good turbo 4 (even a better one) doesn't feel like enough of an upgrade on a car costing 10-15k more.

Inline 6 *is the brand* for this child of the 80s. First ride was in a relative's E28 535i manual. The sound it made while accelerating and the overall feel of the car was... memorable. (My parents had a Subaru).

335i standard feature set is pretty complete for me. Wood, roof, 18s, xenons. Sport Pkg would be nice option, but don't care for the look of the "line". 328 needs options that bring the prices close.

No doubt N20 will be a great engine, and seems the right direction for the 3, as long as they keep the 6 as an option. A little harder to take in 50k Z4 or any kind of 5 series though. I know this is where the world is going, but not ready to modernize my thinking yet.

F30 will be my first Bimmer. You guys have been enjoying the inline 6 while I watched from the sidelines. N20 and ZF 8-speed auto may both be superb, but I don't think psychologically I can let my first BMW have a 4 banger and a slushbox. ;)

+1, don't do it( the 4 banger )...you will wish you had that somewhat "classic" i6 (somewhat because true classic BEST engine, IMO, is a NA i6).
They are wonderfully balance and buttery smooth:thumbup:

16n69 12-06-2011 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by accel (Post 6482746)
I feel that n20 will be very similar to mini cooper's turbo. The engine is very fuel efficient. I recall one of my remarkable drives... Start from SF Bay Area early in the morning with full tank of fuel and have very relaxed drive along coastal hwy 1 towards Hearst Castle, - frequent stops, sightseing... Upon arrival to Hearst i realized - only about quarter tank of fuel was used!

On my way back I wanted to get home quick, so i took 101 and pushed my MCS hard. So It was freeway drive, no stops, but spirited drive above speed limit. Wnen i got home the tank was next to empty.

So if you push it - it'll get thirsty.

Nice...but alas, we don't buy BMWs for "fuel efficiency":D...:roundel:
;)

cajun335d 12-06-2011 02:27 PM

The photo's of the instrument panel of the 328i in the Car & Driver road test article indicate the car has so far averaged fuel consumption of 12.6l/100km. This is equivalent to around US 18.7mpg. This is likely due to all of the hard running a press car gets, but it is a window into the potential lower-end of the fuel mileage we can expect to see out of this 4 cylinder BMW....

jackson328xi 12-06-2011 04:01 PM

I don't know anybody that gets up in morning and pushes their 'ultimate driving machine' to the limit on the way to work every day. 90% of the time when I see a 335 or an M3 or even a Ferrari it is in traffic beside me doing the same exhilarating 40 mph as the rest of us. I think that means the EPA numbers are very important to the vast majority of consumers (even those of us who like to enjoy our car's potential when the opportunity arises). The only people I know that actually drive that aggressively on a daily basis are 16.

I think we would all take the N55 in a world of unlimited resources.

I have not driven the N20 yet, but I am excited that BMW is finding ways to improve efficiency, and still give us more and more powerful cars.

accel 12-06-2011 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrasty (Post 6481757)
My last BMW was a 2002 325i, 185 hp. That car never felt underpowered, so I can't imagine being disappointed with the 2012 328i at 245 hp.

Also, 4 cyl. engine looks like it completely fits behind the front axle - i.e. this really is mid engine car like Miata or S2000. My e90 328i I6 looks like it has 1.5 cylinders in front of the front axle.

It's not the turbo... It's DI that makes me worried. Our MCS spent 2 weeks on engine de-carbonization under warranty and I'm not buying another DI car where intake valve deposits issue is not addressed. Some of them might get into critical condition just like our MCS and require towing and engine head machining, some might be driveable, but the engine would not develop specd power\torque.

sunny5280 12-06-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16n69 (Post 6483334)
+1, don't do it( the 4 banger )...you will wish you had that somewhat "classic" i6 (somewhat because true classic BEST engine, IMO, is a NA i6).
They are wonderfully balance and buttery smooth:thumbup:

Cripes the two of you (tturedraider) sound like audiophiles arguing albums versus CDs. While you go on and on with the details of mounting and aligning a cartridge to a Dual turntable the rest of the world is taking advantage of the benefits of the CD.

tturedraider 12-06-2011 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny5280 (Post 6484179)
Cripes the two of you (tturedraider) sound like audiophiles arguing albums versus CDs. While you go on and on with the details of mounting and aligning a cartridge to a Dual turntable the rest of the world is taking advantage of the benefits of the CD.

The fact of the matter is you can't dispute the laws of physics. And I'll refer you to my first post.

The fact, whether appreciated by the majority of individuals, is the the inline six cylinder design is inherently balanced and the inline four cylinder is not, cannot and never will be a naturally balanced design. That sounds to me more like the characteristics of the album with the inline six matching more closely the characteristics of the CD.

tturedraider 12-06-2011 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16n69 (Post 6483341)
Nice...but alas, we don't buy BMWs for "fuel efficiency":D...:roundel:
;)

And, as 16n69 puts it so well, we don't buy BMWs for fuel efficiency. If that's what I wanted in a fun, more fuel efficient car I'd buy a Mazda3. Which is what I did for a number of years.


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