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-   -   Looks like i Finally discovered BMW V8 secret!!! (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591741)

N62b44 01-04-2012 09:56 AM

Looks like i Finally discovered BMW V8 secret!!!
 
Guys,
I was working on my 745i for 2 months to fix the issue with slight hesitation on low rpms.
Recently replaced:
Vcg
Coils
Spark plugs
Compression test is perfect
Fan clutch

And still no effect, just may be a little better.
Inpa, Gt1 are not showing anything, like everything is perfect.
Later some guys came over and I tested their cars with less miles, and guess what??? Same exact issue:
It's slow from pickup, also if you rev the engine you can feel vibration like a small misfire smth.but idling is perfect.
Recently my friend from Europe finally proved my theory about vanos:
He replaced all 4 units with new ones, and now it's day and night!!! It drives like new!!! Awesome torque from low rpms!!!
He disassembled old ones though they are not fixable:( he says it's same exact sh**Ty issue, as was going on and is going on with M62, m54, m52tu etc!!! Every vanos engine comes with those shty seals, which shrink and cannot move the piston to adjust the timing!!!
I used to have 530i 2003 a year ago, after replacing everything, I was recommended to replace vanos seals with beisan ones!! The result was awesome, and it still drives great.
In other words the ignition is off on low rpms, the piston is pushed for high rpms setting and that's why it drives crappy from low rpms.
I also found here lots of ppl with newer engines complain about exact same issue. Dealer says: your car has no issues, so get last.
Try To rev your car to 3-4rpms and you'll fell slight vibration.
I'm upset with BMW vanos design, so aftermarket seals last 100k miles. And they have had this issue from 90xx and they still install it???
My friend from BMW dealer told me that they replace those units for newer leased cars so they can sell those. Unfortunately they don't last at all!!!! Is it a BMW joke??? Some companies designed sprint booster so you don't have to floor it that much;) lol
Some ppl think it's okay, but come on 333hp and shty low end torque?? It's still good on the highway, but city mpg is horrible. And if compression test is great on every cylinder, everything is new and no errors, there should be an explanation, right? Saying that my car is old is not explanation at all. So now it's explained.
Simply go to the dealer, ask for a test-drive any new BMW v8, and you'll feel the difference. The throttle response should be instant, it will remind you driving any Toyota, they are nice from low rpms bc their vvti never fails, even after 200k miles.

dommm 01-04-2012 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N62b44 (Post 6540740)
Guys,
I was working on my 745i for 2 months to fix the issue with slight hesitation on low rpms.
Recently replaced:
Vcg
Coils
Spark plugs
Compression test is perfect
Fan clutch

And still no effect, just may be a little better.
Inpa, Gt1 are not showing anything, like everything is perfect.
Later some guys came over and I tested their cars with less miles, and guess what??? Same exact issue:
It's slow from pickup, also if you rev the engine you can feel vibration like a small misfire smth.but idling is perfect.
Recently my friend from Europe finally proved my theory about vanos:
He replaced all 4 units with new ones, and now it's day and night!!! It drives like new!!! Awesome torque from low rpms!!!
He disassembled old ones though they are not fixable:( he says it's same exact sh**Ty issue, as was going on and is going on with M62, m54, m52tu etc!!! Every vanos engine comes with those shty seals, which shrink and cannot move the piston to adjust the timing!!!
I used to have 530i 2003 a year ago, after replacing everything, I was recommended to replace vanos seals with beisan ones!! The result was awesome, and it still drives great.
In other words the ignition is off on low rpms, the piston is pushed for high rpms setting and that's why it drives crappy from low rpms.
I also found here lots of ppl with newer engines complain about exact same issue. Dealer says: your car has no issues, so get last.
Try To rev your car to 3-4rpms and you'll fell slight vibration.
I'm upset with BMW vanos design, so aftermarket seals last 100k miles. And they have had this issue from 90xx and they still install it???
My friend from BMW dealer told me that they replace those units for newer leased cars so they can sell those. Unfortunately they don't last at all!!!! Is it a BMW joke??? Some companies designed sprint booster so you don't have to floor it that much;) lol
Some ppl think it's okay, but come on 333hp and shty low end torque?? It's still good on the highway, but city mpg is horrible. And if compression test is great on every cylinder, everything is new and no errors, there should be an explanation, right? Saying that my car is old is not explanation at all. So now it's explained.
Simply go to the dealer, ask for a test-drive any new BMW v8, and you'll feel the difference. The throttle response should be instant, it will remind you driving any Toyota, they are nice from low rpms bc their vvti never fails, even after 200k miles.

I have also noticed a slight hesitation on low rpms on my 750i/2008. Above you said "He replaced all 4 units with new ones". Please excuse this stupid question but what units did he replace? tia

N62b44 01-04-2012 03:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dommm (Post 6541480)
I have also noticed a slight hesitation on low rpms on my 750i/2008. Above you said "He replaced all 4 units with new ones". Please excuse this stupid question but what units did he replace? tia

Yep, believe me you're not the only one here, just bc engine is big and car is heavy, ppl think it's okay, but damn it shty Toyota tundra with 4.0 v6 picks up better than 5,0? I'm just too picky about engines, and if smth does not work right I cannot sleep;))
It's called vanos adjustment units.
When you replace it low end torque will be awesome, and no hesitation.
8 cars I've tested none of them worked without that vibration.
In other words wrong timing leads to poor combustion and therefore Higher temp inside the camera, it explains valve steam caps and other problems with V8....

N62b44 01-04-2012 03:42 PM

Honestly it sounds like a huge recall to me. But if course they don't gv a sht. Beisan has seals for m62, I'm wondering if they are the same? After I rebuilt vanos on m54b30 I was amazed how car with 160 miles can run, tranny also started shifting better on lower rpms, needless to say city mpg changed a lot: 15-17 to 20-22. If tranny is not getting enough power from the engine the turbine won't spin as it should, so the tranny program will change as well, so for ex it won't shift to higher gear bc there is not much torque, it will even downshift when you go uphill.

So here we get ****ty shifting, shty mpg, slow pickups. Valve cover gaskets die too often, it's all bc of wrong early timing.
One guy told me:"new bimmer runs nice 3-4 yrs or before it reaches 40-60 miles on the clock. This is actually a reason why ppl get rid of their bimmers after 3-4 yrs, bc they don't run the same eventhough dealer says everything is fine.
Kinda sucks bc piston rings and bearings are still perfect after 200k
Miles when all toyotas start smoking.

dommm 01-04-2012 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N62b44 (Post 6541519)
Yep, believe me you're not the only one here, just bc engine is big and car is heavy, ppl think it's okay, but damn it shty Toyota tundra with 4.0 v6 picks up better than 5,0? I'm just too picky about engines, and if smth does not work right I cannot sleep;))
It's called vanos adjustment units.
When you replace it low end torque will be awesome, and no hesitation.
8 cars I've tested none of them worked without that vibration.
In other words wrong timing leads to poor combustion and therefore Higher temp inside the camera, it explains valve steam caps and other problems with V8....

Wow. I just goggled "vanos adjustment units" & it looks like a big & expensive job!!
http://www.bmwz8.us/pdf/Z8_replacing_Vanos.pdf

M4XBMW7 01-04-2012 03:57 PM

Good info man , so any idea on how much it would cost to replace the vanos adjustment units ???

kmorgan_260 01-04-2012 04:12 PM

The vanos seals issue with these engines is well documented but this is the first I heard of the problem with the vanos adjustment unit. Have you tried replacing just the seals to see how much each component contributes to the problem?

N62b44 01-04-2012 05:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmorgan_260 (Post 6541581)
The vanos seals issue with these engines is well documented but this is the first I heard of the problem with the vanos adjustment unit. Have you tried replacing just the seals to see how much each component contributes to the problem?

??? Vanos seals are located in those adjustment units;)) And BMW wants us to buy the whole unit, bc it's not repairable. In m54 engines you can disassemble those.

Look at this pic: seals are flat, so think about the pressure it would create??? The vanos piston will stay in one position.... This pic explains everything

DarkLord 01-05-2012 12:45 AM

yep i have this issue , what cost is involved if a indy does it ?

MOPAULY 01-05-2012 03:04 AM

Doesn't look like that bad of a job, I definitely need to look into this. Where did you get the seal kit?

N62b44 01-05-2012 05:24 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLord (Post 6542432)
yep i have this issue , what cost is involved if a indy does it ?

I'm wondering who doesn't??
Ppl think it's okay to drive like this.
But as I explained before it's not only slows the car... This is what I'm thinking:
Wheep hole
Valve stem caps
Vcg
Premature spark plugs and coils failure
Etc.
Higher coolant pressure

It's all related to higher temp inside the combustion camera.

There are no seals yet for these engines. So far it's 320$*4 plus tons of labor and tools. Sounds like a good job for keif to try and get a new engine performance?? Only problem that even new units won't last more than 40-60 kmiles. It's a shame that BMW engines fail just bc of these seals inside vanos units.

Swif 01-05-2012 07:46 AM

Could it be that the seals are bad design and the fact that oil changes are so far inbetween that this porblem happens?

N62b44 01-05-2012 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swif (Post 6542826)
Could it be that the seals are bad design and the fact that oil changes are so far inbetween that this porblem happens?

It's not bc of oil, but I've seen one bimmer with 138miles running 5w30 mobil 1. Surprisingly vanos was alive there... Don't know why, but lots of ppl complain about castrol oil. Could be the issue with oil quality, but now it does not matter.

Swif 01-05-2012 09:14 AM

Just read some infor from beisansystems and it seems it is what the o-ring is mad out of. Then throw in the fact that the o-ring is not the best for use with oil.

I emailed them to see were they are with this system and if they have figured a way to repalce the seals yet.

I have the same concern at 60k and can feel the trans shifting a little harsh at low RPM. Plus I have a the rattle and slight ruff idle at times.

N62b44 01-05-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swif (Post 6543055)
Just read some infor from beisansystems and it seems it is what the o-ring is mad out of. Then throw in the fact that the o-ring is not the best for use with oil.

I emailed them to see were they are with this system and if they have figured a way to repalce the seals yet.

I have the same concern at 60k and can feel the trans shifting a little harsh at low RPM. Plus I have a the rattle and slight ruff idle at times.

Yeah, his name is Raj, a good guy, knows the stuff. We really need them to design those seals and return our cars to the new engine state.
My neibour has 530 2002, I helped him to replace it. Now it drives awesome, very nice pickup from low rpms. If smbdy interested you can stop by and test drive it. Before it drove like piece of st 160kmiles, only bc we have big v8s we don't feel it that bad, but do a new BMW test drive and you'll know what I mean. In the city it's very very big difference, even highway is different. In any way the engine with perfect compression and no errors should not be shaking on revving.
Ps. Remember old V8 m60b44???
It does not have vanos, and it runs always nice if everything is good, in 99 they put intake vanos and after 60 miles it's slow as dog;( rattles etc.

MOPAULY 01-05-2012 10:09 AM

Not much to be done here if they are not making the seals...I'm not going to spend that kind of $$ and a day of my labor to replace the existing units with new.

Swif 01-05-2012 10:47 AM

Also checking with Mr. Vanos for a kit.

N62b44 01-05-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swif (Post 6543297)
Also checking with Mr. Vanos for a kit.

They buy seals from beisan and rebuild it for you;) X2 price

N62b44 01-05-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOPAULY (Post 6543208)
Not much to be done here if they are not making the seals...I'm not going to spend that kind of $$ and a day of my labor to replace the existing units with new.

Yep, I'm thinking the same way;((
But I really want that fixed. Still don't understand BMW: to design state of the art engine and put those seals which are designed not to last

Swif 01-05-2012 11:10 AM

Rajai justed emailed me back say seal kit should be out in about a month. they have been testing on these.

N62b44 01-05-2012 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swif (Post 6543357)
Rajai justed emailed me back say seal kit should be out in about a month. they have been testing on these.

Hmm he said they have it for m62, did you mention N62???
If so it's great news! Who's the first?? Keif?? I will need cam tools for that.

pauliehcfr 01-08-2012 05:12 PM

I researched some vanos rebuilders and they claim the V8's vanos are problem free. However, I too am experiencing some issues that I believe are vanos related. I have a 2004 545. When cold, it feels like it is surging, almost as if I can feel the vanos making slight adjustments. I also get really crappy take offs. It feels as though there is no throttle response at times and I have to give it more gas while releasing the clutch. Did anyone find a seal repair kit for these?

alleng39 01-08-2012 05:38 PM

Just purchased a new 2012 B7 will I be having the same problem soon?

down19992000 01-08-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N62b44 (Post 6542576)
I'm wondering who doesn't??
Ppl think it's okay to drive like this.
But as I explained before it's not only slows the car... This is what I'm thinking:
Wheep hole
Valve stem caps
Vcg
Premature spark plugs and coils failure
Etc.
Higher coolant pressure

It's all related to higher temp inside the combustion camera.

There are no seals yet for these engines. So far it's 320$*4 plus tons of labor and tools. Sounds like a good job for keif to try and get a new engine performance?? Only problem that even new units won't last more than 40-60 kmiles. It's a shame that BMW engines fail just bc of these seals inside vanos units.

What is a combustion camera? Sure you dont mean combustion chamber?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Bimmer

pauliehcfr 01-11-2012 12:52 PM

Just spoke to Beisan and they said the only issues with the N62 motors vanos is that the solenoids get clogged and need to be removed and cleaned....


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