Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/index.php)
-   F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current) (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=153)
-   -   2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously. (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592666)

TJPark01 01-08-2012 01:54 PM

2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.
 
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
Quote:

2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

http://image.motortrend.com/f/361118...quarters-2.jpg

Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...#ixzz1iuFAEVF2

justinnum1 01-08-2012 02:04 PM

First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo

dtc100 01-08-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 6549022)
First of all, the fact that its american, means i would not consider it. Second, only people that should be driving Cadillacs are those with white hair. imo

You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.:)

drive by72 01-08-2012 02:37 PM

This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine

justinnum1 01-08-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive by72 (Post 6549073)
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine

There heritage is how the car drives, and thats to say its the benchmark of its class..

brkf 01-08-2012 03:32 PM

I'll definitely give the turbo and V6 models a look. I've loved my BMWs but they've been... sorta unreliable. If Caddy can deliver 95% of the driving experience for the same or probably less money then that's awesome. Sadly at this point the 3 series still lacks real competitors but I hope this car changes that.

Michael Schott 01-08-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 6549046)
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.:)

I agree :thumbup:

Seeing Cadillac in 2012 as an old man's car shows a lack of knowledge or a phenomenally closed mind. The CTS is a terrific car and we all know the V series cars are world class. I expect the ATS to be a serious player in this class. I had a 2006 CTS and despite a plasticky interior it was a terrific vehicle.

Michael Schott 01-08-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive by72 (Post 6549073)
This looks like this is going to be good. BMW has been dealing with Audi and Merc for years, infinity has been targeting them recently, and now Cadillac is setting their sights on BMW?

The f30 looks like a fine car, but BMW might need to do some 're-heritage-ing' if it plans to remain the ultimate driving machine

The ATS is not news to anyone. I don't see BMW reengineering the F30 to compete with the ATS. They most certainly knew of it while designing it. It already looks to be once again the top of it's class.

Inline Sixer 01-08-2012 03:38 PM

Cadillac is coming out with great enthusiast-minded products lately. CTS-V = that's no grandpa car folks. If the steering feel on this ATS is better than the F30, I'll consider it. (Besides, people might treat me nicer on the road and not give me this douche stereotype crap, LOL)

justinnum1 01-08-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 6549046)
You have just lost a great deal of credibility for any opinions you have about a car.

If GM can manufacture a sport sedan with the 3er's driving dynamics and Corvette like performance, it will be a serious threat. The CTS is still a little too big and heavy, but the ATS seems to be rightfully aimed at the 3.

It is not just the BMW enthusiasts who are saying BMW is moving away from its heritage.:)

They havent yet

pistolpuma 01-08-2012 03:50 PM

Good for Cadillac. They have gotten their act together in recent years with some great offerings. I looked seriously at both the CTS and SRX in recent years. Vast improvements in performance, reliability, fit/finish, and quality of interior materials. But I always walked off the lot impressed but not swayed. I still think they are a half-step behind BMW and others but their effort and the competition it brings tothe market is great for us all.

LS2 MN6 01-08-2012 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inline Sixer (Post 6549151)
Cadillac is coming out with great enthusiast-minded products lately. CTS-V = that's no grandpa car folks. If the steering feel on this ATS is better than the F30, I'll consider it. (Besides, people might treat me nicer on the road and not give me this douche stereotype crap, LOL)

ZF makes both gears (ATS & F30). Unless GM can tune it better than BMW the steering won't be better.

Inline Sixer 01-08-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS2 MN6 (Post 6549186)
ZF makes both gears (ATS & F30). Unless GM can tune it better than BMW the steering won't be better.

Nice to know. What the Cadi doesn't have though is European Delivery. I don't think Detroit Delivery sounds as enticing.

7or8 01-08-2012 04:44 PM

This is a very good thing. Competition will force BMW to stay on their toes. It would be great if another car manufacturer, be it Cadillac, Audi, Merc, or whoever, made a line as good as the E46. You know bmw would be embarrassed if they succeeded, and you know we'd all be getting a baby M3 as the next 3 series if that happened. We all should be proud of Cadillac for setting their goals on making a great drivers car.

justinnum1 01-08-2012 04:51 PM

Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is none of them can offer the driving experience the 3 series can.

7or8 01-08-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 6549288)
Every manufactures goal is the 3series....i have been reading about car company "x" taking aim at the 3 sereis for 15 years now. Fact is none of them can offer the driving experience the 3 series can.

Yes, in theory, because they say it in marketing literature. But, in reality I don't think their engineering depts are given the latitude to really try. Audi?.. seems to only try on their S4. Merc? ...tries more on comfort and luxury on their competing line. Porsche? ..no sedans in the same price range. Caddy? ..seem to be trying. Acura? ..hasn't seemed to figure out yet what they want to be. Lexus? ..nope. Volvo? ..I don't even wanna..

Marketing, and actual attempt, is a very different thing. Audi has been very successful in what they've been doing..but what they've been doing is not really trying to compete head on with the 3-series. Same goes for Merc.

bmwarchitect 01-08-2012 05:39 PM

Cadillac is also gearing up its brand cache, with new high end designed showrooms.

Inline Sixer 01-08-2012 05:57 PM

It seems the only company that can finally foil the 3-series is BMW itself, if it chooses to ruin it.

dtc100 01-08-2012 06:01 PM

It is not just Caddy but GM in general has done some good things lately.

Their new Cruze Eco is easily the most fuel economical petrol-only car, and the most fun to drive in its class too.

GM definitely has the engineering capability, the only thing they need is the will. Now they had sorted out the financial issues maybe they will finally have a real focus.

Competition is good, but meaningful competition is better.

PhillyNate 01-08-2012 06:12 PM

Though not my cup of tea, I think that car as well as others will be seriously worthy adversaries for the 3-series. I think manufacturers are getting tired of getting their teeth kicked in by the 3-series. This only makes BMW step up their game apparently. Thank god.

7or8 01-08-2012 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 6549408)
It is not just Caddy but GM in general has done some good things lately..

..GM definitely has the engineering capability, the only thing they need is the will. Now they had sorted out the financial issues maybe they will finally have a real focus.

Competition is good, but meaningful competition is better.

Totally agree.


Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyNate (Post 6549427)
... I think manufacturers are getting tired of getting their teeth kicked in by the 3-series. This only makes BMW step up their game apparently. Thank god.

^--- this too.

TJPark01 01-08-2012 06:41 PM

I have to give Cadillac some props for building this car. They definitely have their act together. Look at them versus the quagmire that is Lincoln. But seriously, unless pricing is at a substantial discount, why would anyone considering a 3 series take a gamble on a new GM model? Infiniti G, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, Volvo S60,Lexus IS... the segment is crowded with mature proven models and none of the aforementioned have been able to knock BMW 3 series off it's gilded pedestal. If I was looking to save a few bucks and still get a great car a G37 would be up there, but a Cadillac ATS? I guess since so many people lease now a days, if the lease pricing is aggressive this thing may rent well.

dtc100 01-08-2012 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJPark01 (Post 6549497)
I have to give Cadillac some props for building this car. They definitely have their act together. Look at them versus the quagmire that is Lincoln. But seriously, unless pricing is at a substantial discount, why would anyone considering a 3 series take a gamble on a new GM model? Infiniti G, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, Volvo S60,Lexus IS... the segment is crowded with mature proven models and none of the aforementioned have been able to knock BMW 3 series off it's gilded pedestal. If I was looking to save a few bucks and still get a great car a G37 would be up there, but a Cadillac ATS? I guess since so many people lease now a days, if the lease pricing is aggressive this thing may rent well.

Even Infiniti has to seriously undercut in price. I agree ATS must be very price competitive.

On the other hand we have Buick already making their compact sport sedan's price at the level of Toyota and Honda.

The lease programs for the CTSs were very aggressive as well, at the level of the 3 series, but the CTS is in the same category as the 5.

Red Lined 01-08-2012 07:36 PM

I understand that crystal red is a classical Cadillac color, but I also do not think it is a coincidence that they chose this color to market initial press of the vehicle. BMW has chosen melbourne red as its marketing color and so Cadillac went right after them.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...9S-blog480.jpg

It sure is a very nice car, and the interior has been vastly improved over the CTS (imo). If I hadn't been driving a Cadillac for 6 years now, I would definitely be considering this vehicle. If pricing is competitive, BMW will have their hands full as this car has what some would perceive a better engine and more refined interior. The "lines" may very well come to bite BMW NA in the ass if Cadillac offers more flexibility in ordering.

dtc100 01-08-2012 08:01 PM

Other than the interior, 50/50 weight, I think the ATS will have an edge on the suspension.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms