Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/index.php)
-   F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current) (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=161)
-   -   535xi GT Pricing? Edmunds? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607223)

starryeyed 03-12-2012 07:18 PM

535xi GT Pricing? Edmunds?
 
I'm trying to decide what to do. I have a 2008 535xi Wagon with 48.5K miles - Sport Package, NAV, etc. I'm out of warranty. I've fixed the standard issues, but I'm concerned about reliability and cost going forward. I'm thinking about trading the car in.

So, I started looking at a 535xi GT. What is the 7.5% that the sales person mentioned under his breath? Do I pay invoice? I priced the configuration in which I'm interested on Edmunds and the pricing info said people around me are paying about $3K LESS than invoice. Why would that be?

HELP. I'm very price-sensitive and I don't want to pay more than I absolutely have to.

starryeyed 03-13-2012 12:10 PM

I'm also looking into the Costco Auto Program, but I'm not sure if that's the best bottom line. Anyone have any experience?

Can anyone out there give me an idea of what I should expect to pay for a 2012 535xi GT relative to invoice? Does it make a difference if I order one vs buying one off the lot?

gmblack3 03-13-2012 12:46 PM

Have you considered doing a European Delivery? You can order what you want, the standard discount is 7%, but there are forum sponsors that will do better then that.

Adrian is my salesperson and I can highly recommend him.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/member.php?u=3576

wchewbaka 03-13-2012 01:31 PM

I don't think there is any simple advice to your question. Pricing is very dependent upon particular dealer situations, local economy, and any incentives in place.
I found the best thing to do is to visit as many dealers as you can. If you can get quotes you can play them off of each other.
Negotiate hard and WALK AWAY at least once no matter how much the dealer will try to convince you it is their best deal.
I have not heard anything recently, but late last year dealers were easily selling close to their invoice price. Invoice is really not their cost as there are other financial considerations to the dealer from BMW including "hold backs".
A dealer may be willing to deal harder on a car in their inventory. You may have to compromise on options, obviously.
In my area there are very few GTs in inventory. It is not a big seller here. Luckily I was able to find a dealer willing to seriously deal on an order. Plus he seemed to care that I had purchased my previous car from him.
As suggested earlier, consider the ED option if you order. There is a discount to start, but you will have to pay for the trip (worth it). I did not do it because it would have been a longer delivery, I would have had to pay upon order (not delivery), and I would have had the wrong tires on the car in the dead of winter in Europe.
Also, since your current car is not that old, you may want to consider a lease. Price it out and you may be surprised.... I keep my cars a long time so it was better for me to buy.

starryeyed 03-13-2012 01:57 PM

Unfortunately, European Delivery isn't even remotely feasible for me right now. Wouldn't that be wonderful! I'll just dream about the day.

Yes, so I stopped into a dealer that had a GT with a bunch of options I wasn't interested in, which added $5K to the bottom line. Do dealers price cars on the lot more aggressively than ones they have to order? Is there an incentive to sell what they have?

They also told me about one that is currently in production in Germany that is closer to my wish list, and about 4 weeks out. Can I get a better deal by going with something on the lot or by taking one currently in production? I'm not so time-sensitive, other than the miles I add to my 2008 while waiting.

Oh, and I thought BMW doesn't do holdbacks????

I'm thinking $500 over invoice + MACO + Training. Is that fair? that is, if I even buy one right now, at all!

wchewbaka 03-13-2012 02:56 PM

Again, it is what you can negotiate. I had one dealer who only wanted to deal on a car on his lot and was not that interested in ordering a car. Another dealer did not have a car and insisted that a car ordered would not be anywhere near invoice. Then my closest dealer while disappointed that I was not interested in the car on his lot - was willing to deal hard on an order.

Dealers will negotiate harder on a car on the lot since he already has an investment in it.

You will find that most of the owners on this board are very particular about the options on their cars - so as a consequence they have ordered their GTs.

The car they are pointing at "four weeks away" may not arrive much sooner than a car you place an order on. Most of the time is transit, not production. Price both...

Just talk a lot to the dealers....

However, $500 above is a pretty good starting point. Again, conditions change in the economy and incentives...

avus9 03-13-2012 03:55 PM

I have noticed, from past experience, that Edmunds #s aren't always accurate.
You can't beat TrueCar.com for pricing. It shows MSRP, Invoice, and Dealer Cost. Plus, average transaction paid in your geographic area.
Make sure you build your car with the options you want for the most accurate price.
Good stuff.

starryeyed 03-13-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avus9 (Post 6699201)
I have noticed, from past experience, that Edmunds #s aren't always accurate.
You can't beat TrueCar.com for pricing. It shows MSRP, Invoice, and Dealer Cost. Plus, average transaction paid in your geographic area.
Make sure you build your car with the options you want for the most accurate price.
Good stuff.

Hey, thanks for the tip. The configured price on TrueCar.com was about $500 higher than Edmunds' True Market Value. Interesting, especially how they also addressed the likelihood of finding a dealer willing to go below the target price. Unfortunate for me they said pretty much "unlikely" on the GT.

starryeyed 03-13-2012 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wchewbaka (Post 6699093)
Again, it is what you can negotiate. I had one dealer who only wanted to deal on a car on his lot and was not that interested in ordering a car. Another dealer did not have a car and insisted that a car ordered would not be anywhere near invoice. Then my closest dealer while disappointed that I was not interested in the car on his lot - was willing to deal hard on an order.

Dealers will negotiate harder on a car on the lot since he already has an investment in it.

You will find that most of the owners on this board are very particular about the options on their cars - so as a consequence they have ordered their GTs.

The car they are pointing at "four weeks away" may not arrive much sooner than a car you place an order on. Most of the time is transit, not production. Price both...

Just talk a lot to the dealers....

However, $500 above is a pretty good starting point. Again, conditions change in the economy and incentives...

Thanks for your advice wchewbaka. I checked out bmwconfig.com, but my system isn't compatible. Aargh!

Wardman 03-13-2012 07:41 PM

Suggestion - you might want to start a new thread with what you are looking at option wise, price, and buy or lease. That would help us judge and tell you what we are paying.

I leased a 2012 535GT with the Comfort seats, and heated front seats as the only two options - put down about 18K, got 15K miles a year, and am paying $290 month. I did add $1200 for new tires right away also - got rid of the RFT since I thought they were harsh riding.

Hope that helps.

Wardman

mpress 03-13-2012 08:03 PM

Starry,
Chewy and others have given you great info...pricing is dealer specific and BMW incentive timing can alter that... True the majority here builds their cars to spec and we don't mind paying a few extra dollars to get exactlynwhatbwe want...

Time of month amount of cars a dealer has sold that month can also play into pricing...

I have leased a new BMW every year for the past 10 years between myself, my wife and daughters.. And there is always something that can alter what you think...

Three years ago I built an x5 to my spec only to have my dealer find me the exact car but it also had third row and HUD yet he was able to get it from a dealer that really wanted to trade him for a car he had on his lot... Somehow I got a car with 2500 dollars of extra features for $80 a month less...

So you never know...

You do not list where you live on this site many of us have our preferred dealer that always takes good care and we trust to do the right thing... Start there WHERE DO YOU LIVE? Someone will recommend a dealer... My dealer has never not been the lowest quote for anyone I have ever sent to him and I'm sure many festers will say the same...

Also as chewy mentioned return customers and BMW loyalty program also effect price so don't assume that you can get the same pricing as some people here....although you do already own a BMW......

Lastly you picked the wrong model to look for deals... The gt is not well stocked dealers do not buy a lot of up front gts and the car has recently become much more in demand then it was as recently as six months ago..

My dealer had two in his inventory both a few months old and in the two days that my carbon black m sport gt sat in his showroom he sold them both.......

Build the car you want suck it up and pay what you need to then go enjoy the ultimate driving machine!!!!!

Good luck
Mp

starryeyed 03-15-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wardman (Post 6699788)
Suggestion - you might want to start a new thread with what you are looking at option wise, price, and buy or lease. That would help us judge and tell you what we are paying.

I leased a 2012 535GT with the Comfort seats, and heated front seats as the only two options - put down about 18K, got 15K miles a year, and am paying $290 month. I did add $1200 for new tires right away also - got rid of the RFT since I thought they were harsh riding.

Hope that helps.

Wardman

Of course it's always FUN to talk about options (more later)! I priced out the car with Edmunds and then compared with the Costco Auto Program pricing. They are the same.

I am speaking with 3-4 dealers right now. One is trying to sell me a 2010 550GT that just came off of lease. I would prefer a 535. Another dealer has an Alpine White with Black interior, no MSport, which makes it a deal killer.

So one dealer has re-directed a car currently in-production to his lot. This car is pretty close to perfect for me. This dealer won't give me what I want for my trade, otherwise I'd do the deal. Not sure if he really re-directed, but that's what he claims. He says that because my car just ran out of warranty, his dealership can't certify it, so it's worth less. Is that true?????

One dealer has a real beauty, pimped out way beyond what I would need, but it made my heart skip a beat when I saw it. He will give me a good deal on my trade, but his pricing is high compared to Edmunds. Not to mention there's about $4-5K of options I'm not sure I need. Maybe this dealer will get more aggressive in his pricing as the car sits?

I'm getting so frustrated with the whole thing that I'm almost resigned to keep driving my current car.

wchewbaka 03-15-2012 04:21 PM

Too bad for your frustration...

However, my suggested starting point is to configure your ideal car. Then you will be able to determine how much of a compromise an existing car is, in both price and options.

I used this site: http://www.bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/Config.aspx

I found that it matched the dealer's own documents.

This configuration and invoice pricing was vital in comparing my ideal with what was available. It told me how much I was wasting on an option I did not want, and how much I was missing by not having an option I did want...

In the end I told the dealers in no uncertain terms that I would not take a car off the lot and shopped for the best price on the production of my ideal car, options, exterior and interior color. Then the dealer competition is all very easy and straight forward. Even playing field...

Every time I look at - and drive my car, I congratulate myself on not compromising.

I spent a lot of money on my car (more than my first house) - so I purchased EXACTLY what I want in a car.....

Downside was waiting 8 weeks for delivery of my car to the West Coast. Drove me crazy!

jadnashuanh 03-15-2012 05:23 PM

One thing to consider if you were to order a car verses take one off the lot - BMW will let you choose some things on a vehicle a customer is ordering that are only available in a package when ordered by the dealer. So, say one thing you really want is part of a much larger package, if you order it, you may be able to just get that item. They don't allow the dealers to do this for 'stock' items, but it is allowed when purchased directly by a customer. Doesn't help if you want everything in the 'package', and sometimes, especially if you want more than one item, the package is cheaper than the 'parts'. It's not anywhere near as flexible as those living in Germany have it where nearly everything is available a la carte, but it's better than nothing.

wchewbaka 03-15-2012 06:33 PM

Really? I did not know that. Next time I will keep that in mind. The packages are too confining in terms of take it all or leave it...

That's why I never pulled the trigger on a 2011. The packages all had the wrong combinations for me.

stancv 03-15-2012 08:26 PM

Starry, I just got delivery of a 535ix GT and can share some of my experience in the Dallas area. It seems that you are already doing your homework, thoroughly researching your options, but as others mentioned, I will say that even if I went with multiple dealers, the flexibility in price negotiation was not large. I also suggest to configure your ideal car on the BMW website, to determine what options are a necessity for you and what you can live without, as that will help you especially if you pick a car new/used off the dealers' lots.

I started with the Costo & Sams dealers and negotiated other local ones against them. I was lucky to find a good salesperson at Autobahn in Fort Wort, who worked with me to reach a great price. As others mentioned, choosing the 'right' options for me was more important than getting the car in a hurry, so I waited ~ 10 weeks for the car, but it was worth it to have it configured exactly how I want it, without options of little use for me. However, if you do want to order it, don't expect huge discounts. For a 550GT that one dealer had on the lot for a while, they were willing to drop $8,000 off MSRP (sticker) but the options just did not work for us. Good luck on your quest to find the perfect one, I know I did.

stancv 03-15-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh (Post 6704499)
One thing to consider if you were to order a car verses take one off the lot - BMW will let you choose some things on a vehicle a customer is ordering that are only available in a package when ordered by the dealer. So, say one thing you really want is part of a much larger package, if you order it, you may be able to just get that item. They don't allow the dealers to do this for 'stock' items, but it is allowed when purchased directly by a customer. Doesn't help if you want everything in the 'package', and sometimes, especially if you want more than one item, the package is cheaper than the 'parts'. It's not anywhere near as flexible as those living in Germany have it where nearly everything is available a la carte, but it's better than nothing.

I tried to do this but was unsuccessful. I wanted to keep the chrome trim when I added the Sport package, but could not get the otherwise very helpful salesperson to put it in this system, try as he might. Actually, the car looks good with the black trim, however, trying to break up a package for me was a no go; it was either all components in a package or none.

jadnashuanh 03-16-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stancv (Post 6704946)
I tried to do this but was unsuccessful. I wanted to keep the chrome trim when I added the Sport package, but could not get the otherwise very helpful salesperson to put it in this system, try as he might. Actually, the car looks good with the black trim, however, trying to break up a package for me was a no go; it was either all components in a package or none.

I did say SOME things...by no means do you have a la carte like they do in Germany. If I remember, they are listed as type 1 options...

One thing I really could have done without was the panoramic sunroof - that's an option in Germany, and you can get a vehicle without one there (it's about a 1700 Euro option!). I'd much rather have the increased headroom, less weight on the roof, and could easily live without it. But, no, not in the cards at all. As an example, when I bought mine, if you wanted the comfort access entry, the dealer couldn't order it without the comfort package, but by me ordering the car, it was available as a standalone option. Kind of pricey, but I didn't want the other things and had gotten used to never taking the fob out of my pocket, so I bit the bullet and chose just that option. There were other, limited things available that way, too, but I don't remember now the extent.

starryeyed 03-16-2012 07:18 PM

Chewy, I tried to use bmwconfig.com, but it won't work on my Mac - too old an OS. Thanks for the tip though - I'll try it on another machine.....

I am pretty soft when it comes to options. Do I need ceramic knobs? No, but they look and feel soooo nice. Do I need the MSport package? Well, that's probably a YES! Do I need all that stuff in the Dynamic Handling package? Beats me, but it sounds good. I wouldn't mind a cool posterior in the summer, but do I need it? I thought the same thing about a heated steering wheel until it came in a package and now I can't live without it.

If I were to get a great deal on a loaded car, I might be willing to pay a little more if the savings off MSRP is there, but I'm guessing that will only be the case if that car has been sitting around for a while.

What ever happened to BMW Loyalty? Do they only run that at certain times of the year? Any idea when to expect incentives? This seems to be a rotten time of year to buy a car.

wchewbaka 03-16-2012 08:31 PM

I actually did not know that "BMW Loyalty" was some kind of official program. However, my dealer did mention the fact that as a repeat customer I was getting some kind of consideration. (That's what this forum is for - I learn stuff).

As far as incentives are concerned - I am of the opinion that incentives can cause a dealer to not have to work as hard to negotiate a deal. You have the opportunity to work the price angle much harder when there is no incentive in place.

I was extremely lucky with my car. I negotiated a pretty good price in the absence of incentives. I live in an area of very high BMW concentration so the Bimmer dealers are sitting pretty - and getting a good price takes some work around here.

BUT then, as I was waiting for delivery for my car (forever!) BMW put the 0.9% financing and $1000 credit incentives in place just before my car arrived. I got the incentives on top of the negotiated price. (Very happy when I signed the papers!)

I am of the belief that had the incentives been in place at the time I negotiated my deal I would have been in about the same place on my final cost. I think the incentive is actually more money in the dealer's pocket.

So, all I am saying is that there is no replacement for hard bargaining.

FWIW some are of the belief that dealers will deal harder at the end of the month when they are worried about allocation and sales figures. If you are not in a hurry consider your timing too....

starryeyed 03-17-2012 08:10 AM

Chewy, that's a fabulous story! You must have felt so good to walk away with another $1000 in your pocket. I guess that's the advantage to ordering. What time of year was this?

wchewbaka 03-17-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyed (Post 6707970)
Chewy, that's a fabulous story! You must have felt so good to walk away with another $1000 in your pocket. I guess that's the advantage to ordering. What time of year was this?

ordered the car at the end of September - it was delivered Thanksgiving week. The incentives were put in place early November.

I suppose you could try to guess when incentives will be put in place on a seasonal basis, but I think it is a crap shoot.

Now that I think about it, if I had a quicker delivery than the 8 weeks that it took I would not have gotten the incentives.

Just dumb luck.

starryeyed 03-17-2012 07:18 PM

Ok, I did it. No ordering, no waiting. Picking up my new GT, off the lot, on Tuesday. Just my luck, they'll come out with incentives on Wednesday.

Here's what I'm getting:

535xi GT, Titanium Silver, Ivory/Black interior, Ash Trim
MSport package
Dynamic Handling package
Ceramic Controls (gorgeous!)
Heads Up Display
Driver Assistance package
Cold Weather package
Premium Sound package
Value package

Oh man, all of the packages, but what a great deal. Of those packages, I don't feel I need DA, nor Heads Up, but I'm done. Who knows, maybe I won't be able to live without them a month from now.

I almost went for a model coming off production right now that is Carbon Black, MSport, Ivory/Black with Fineline Matte Trim, but I didn't care for the Matte against the polished black finish around the shifter. I wish the Matte were continued around the shifter and then it would have been a no brainer. Less money too, but probably not a better value.

It's all very surreal.....

wchewbaka 03-17-2012 07:47 PM

congratulations
enjoy

starryeyed 03-18-2012 07:19 AM

For the record, Invoice + MACO + Training + $800. Plus $1500 more on my trade than 3 other dealers. That's good, right?

We chuckled that the State makes more on the deal that the car dealer!


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms