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-   -   335d: DTUK CRD-T Vs. JBD box? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607689)

Ligament 03-14-2012 07:53 PM

335d: DTUK CRD-T Vs. JBD box?
 
It seems the DTUK-T is a better option as it is a two channel system controlling fuel throughput as well as turbo boost. DTUK is manufactured by DTE in germany which has years of diesel tuning experience for multiple auto manufacturers. JBD only controls fuel, does not control turbo boost, and JBD makes only one module for this one engine.

I could be wrong, please enlighten me. I have been considering buying both myself.

Stugots 04-17-2012 05:25 PM

This is a tune I've been using for some time now, and it's my tune of choice at this point, fwiw.

Flyingman 04-18-2012 03:15 AM

Stug, which version are you using? They show 3 with the top one controlling both CRD and Boost. They offer 4 different mappings for this version, so which do you choose? How do you order and take delivery stateside?

Curious minds want to know!:thumbup:

3ismagic# 04-18-2012 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingman (Post 6778692)
Stug, which version are you using? They show 3 with the top one controlling both CRD and Boost. They offer 4 different mappings for this version, so which do you choose? How do you order and take delivery stateside?

Curious minds want to know!:thumbup:

Indeed we do.

Stugots 04-18-2012 08:28 AM

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/...ails.php?id=10

And technically, there are 28 maps (each of the 4 maps has 7 different settings).

Regarding ordering, just talk to Andrew/work through the site, and they'll get you taken care of. Tell Andrew that Ronin sent you if you happen to pick one up.

cssnms 04-18-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligament (Post 6702275)
It seems the DTUK-T is a better option as it is a two channel system controlling fuel throughput as well as turbo boost. DTUK is manufactured by DTE in germany which has years of diesel tuning experience for multiple auto manufacturers. JBD only controls fuel, does not control turbo boost, and JBD makes only one module for this one engine.

I could be wrong, please enlighten me. I have been considering buying both myself.

Controls turbo boost? What is this box connected to when installed? I want to see a picture of the installed box.

cssnms 04-18-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stugots (Post 6777792)
This is a tune I've been using for some time now, and it's my tune of choice at this point, fwiw.

Why?

cssnms 04-18-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms (Post 6779247)
Controls turbo boost? What is this box connected to when installed? I want to see a picture of the installed box.

Found this on their site which seems to answer the question.

"Unlike our other common rail modules, GREEN, RED, CRD2, that only connect to the common rail pressure sensor, the new CRD-T also connects to the turbo pressure sensor, allowing us to control and increase the boost settings. This results in an even smoother power delivery, and even lower emissions and even more power and torque."

My question is where is the turbo pressure sensor connection exactly?

Stugots 04-18-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms (Post 6779261)
Found this on their site which seems to answer the question.

"Unlike our other common rail modules, GREEN, RED, CRD2, that only connect to the common rail pressure sensor, the new CRD-T also connects to the turbo pressure sensor, allowing us to control and increase the boost settings. This results in an even smoother power delivery, and even lower emissions and even more power and torque."

My question is where is the turbo pressure sensor connection exactly?

If you're facing the engine from the front of the car, it's at the front of the engine bay (by the firewall), pretty much in line south of where the last cowl screw is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cssnms (Post 6779251)
Why?

It's the only piggyback tune that hooks into the boost sensor, as well, it has 28 maps to choose from (in this respect, DTUK > JBD > VAC), and it feels more powerful than the 3 I have (and yes, I've done back to back to back comparisons).

My next goal, when I can actually find some time, is to dyno the car with each of the 3 modules, and then I'll have hard data to support what the butt dyno is telling me.

Ligament 04-18-2012 05:07 PM

I have nowhere near the experience with other tune boxes as Ronin, however after three weeks or so I am very happy with my DTUK CRD-T tuning box. I have spoken at length with the DTUK GM Andrew, and am pleased with customer care and support. My 2011 335d is doing great.

Subjectively, of course, it appears turbo lag is 90% reduced. Power output feels about 30% better across all RPMs. I have not dyno'd it yet so take my claims with a few grains of salt.

Flyingman 04-18-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligament (Post 6780177)
I have nowhere near the experience with other tune boxes as Ronin, however after three weeks or so I am very happy with my DTUK CRD-T tuning box. I have spoken at length with the DTUK GM Andrew, and am pleased with customer care and support. My 2011 335d is doing great.

Subjectively, of course, it appears turbo lag is 90% reduced. Power output feels about 30% better across all RPMs. I have not dyno'd it yet so take my claims with a few grains of salt.

And some Tequila!:drink:

It sounds fantastic, too good to be true?:dunno:

It certainly makes sense to control both fuel delivery and charge air pressure.

They mention a new model with 3 channels, or am I getting confused already?

Flyingman 04-18-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligament (Post 6780177)
I have nowhere near the experience with other tune boxes as Ronin, however after three weeks or so I am very happy with my DTUK CRD-T tuning box. I have spoken at length with the DTUK GM Andrew, and am pleased with customer care and support. My 2011 335d is doing great.

Subjectively, of course, it appears turbo lag is 90% reduced. Power output feels about 30% better across all RPMs. I have not dyno'd it yet so take my claims with a few grains of salt.

Ligament, how do you boost your NADA?:rofl:

Post your ride already.:tsk:

Flyingman 04-18-2012 06:13 PM

Why don't they show the Dyno graphs for the 335d?

BMW 335D 286PS - 340bhp and 508.5lbft (687nm!!!!)

What are they hiding?

Stugout/Ligament, any codes or limp mode with this?

Stugots 04-18-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingman (Post 6780325)
Why don't they show the Dyno graphs for the 335d?

BMW 335D 286PS - 340bhp and 508.5lbft (687nm!!!!)

What are they hiding?

Stugout/Ligament, any codes or limp mode with this?

Limp mode can happen, yes. Running Map 3 at Stage 7 (30%) will trigger limp almost 100% reliably under WOT. Depending on conditions, Map 3 Stage 6 (20%) will do the same (interestingly enough, only under intense acceleration going from 2nd to 3rd). I can reliably run Map 3, Stage 5 (10%) without concern for limp, and a massive increase in power and torque.

Codes that can pop up (and will, generally, with a tune) when this happens fall along the lines of Rail Pressure Plausiblity, but I've also seen Air Mass Sensor and Gas Pressure Sensor.

Flyingman 04-18-2012 06:46 PM

Last thing I want when trying to spank something is to have the engine go limp! That's embarassing.:eeps:

Do you just have to shut off engine and restart it to reset?

Would a code tool with a reset feature resolve it on the fly?

I emailed Andrew to see if he would send me the Dyno Graph missing from their website.

Looks promising, like the concept vs a reflash of the ECU.

julesandtrish 04-18-2012 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligament (Post 6780177)
I have nowhere near the experience with other tune boxes as Ronin, however after three weeks or so I am very happy with my DTUK CRD-T tuning box. I have spoken at length with the DTUK GM Andrew, and am pleased with customer care and support. My 2011 335d is doing great.

Subjectively, of course, it appears turbo lag is 90% reduced. Power output feels about 30% better across all RPMs. I have not dyno'd it yet so take my claims with a few grains of salt.

A few questions guys:
1. How is the turbo lag reduction on the dtuk compare to the jbd?
2. How easy is the dtuk to install compared to the jbd?
3. Are you able to clear the tuner codes when they are triggered by the dtuk unit?
4. When you say power output feels about 30% better is that compared to the jbd (at which setting on jbd) or stock?


Thanks. :thumbup:

Ligament 04-18-2012 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julesandtrish (Post 6780462)
A few questions guys:
1. How is the turbo lag reduction on the dtuk compare to the jbd?
2. How easy is the dtuk to install compared to the jbd?
3. Are you able to clear the tuner codes when they are triggered by the dtuk unit?
4. When you say power output feels about 30% better is that compared to the jbd (at which setting on jbd) or stock?


Thanks. :thumbup:

I have no experience with the JBD so cannot comment on 1-2.

Yes I've been able to clear the codes.

Power increase compared to stock. I have not dyno'd the car with the DTUK so be careful how you interpret my subjective reports of increased power.

Flyingman 04-19-2012 07:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is their Dyno Graph on a 335D. I assume this may be a EU Spec, not US Spec.

Still reseraching asking questions. Comments?

Attachment 321515

Flyingman 04-19-2012 07:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
DTUK also sent me the four programming profiles for the US Spec version of their tuner.

Not sure I understand it but here it is.

Ligament 04-19-2012 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingman (Post 6781259)
DTUK also sent me the four programming profiles for the US Spec version of their tuner.

Not sure I understand it but here it is.

Ok, so this is the MAP profile I have. I am using Map 1 at +20% currently.

I suspect Ronin and I have our MAPS stored in different banks.

Flyingman 04-19-2012 08:05 AM

I can't really read the maps very well.

What are the other three maps then if the first is 20%?

Do you know what the red and yello lines represent? I'm assuming one if fuel rack position and the other is turbo boost.

Flyingman 04-19-2012 10:13 AM

Here is the response from DTUK.

The four settings represent 10%, 20%, 30% and 40% gain on the output signal to the fuel delivery and turbo boost. Signal is in 0.1V (volt) increments.

Sounds simple enough.

So, is it any better than what the others are offering? :dunno: Cost is around $550 delivered.


"The 4 programmes are what the box adds when the setting is set on zero.

horizontal axis is the range that the sensors work within.

red line is extra fuel, yellow is extra boost.

when you move to + 1(10% or 2(20%) ure actually adding 0.1v to the additional voltage already added by the system on zero setting."

Stugots 04-19-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julesandtrish (Post 6780462)
A few questions guys:
1. How is the turbo lag reduction on the dtuk compare to the jbd?
2. How easy is the dtuk to install compared to the jbd?
3. Are you able to clear the tuner codes when they are triggered by the dtuk unit?
4. When you say power output feels about 30% better is that compared to the jbd (at which setting on jbd) or stock?
Thanks. :thumbup:

1. Turbo lag reduction is about the same in 1st and 2nd, but the DTUK seems to pull stronger throughout the range overall. There is still a hint of lag on WOT from a dead stop, though, and that is consistent across all of the piggybacks I've tried.
2. Because of where the boost sensor is, it really isn't all that difficult. You just have to thread the second part of the cable so that it's not restricting anything end not in the way of moving parts.
3. Never had a problem clearing codes with my BT
4. He's comparing to stock. The difference between JBD and this probably isn't that dramatic, but without solid #'s, that's a hard question to answer otherwise.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingman (Post 6781601)
Do you just have to shut off engine and restart it to reset?

Would a code tool with a reset feature resolve it on the fly?

Yes, but you can shut off the engine while driving and start the car back up (press and hold your Start/Stop Engine button for about 3 seconds to shut off the car, then press it again to start the car again...limp mode gone, but if an SES is triggered, that will remain).

I don't think any code tools reset on the fly (could ask Mike at N54 about whether or not the Can Tool does).

Stugots 04-19-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingman (Post 6781163)
Here is their Dyno Graph on a 335D. I assume this may be a EU Spec, not US Spec.

Still reseraching asking questions. Comments?

Attachment 321515

I'd be interested to know which map that's on, actually. The reason I ask is because I've had the car dynoed (HP only) with the DTUK tune, and I peaked at just over 365HP.

jashearer 04-19-2012 12:17 PM

Was the 365hp using a guestimated parasitic loss to get back to crank hp? Surely that wasn't at the wheel???

If so I need one of these ASAP :D

Jay


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