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-   -   N52 vs. N20 328i dyno comparison, and tuned N20 dyno (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612769)

Terry @ BMS 04-06-2012 12:01 PM

N52 vs. N20 328i dyno comparison, and tuned N20 dyno
 
Hey guys,

Took a few hours today to do some N20 dyno testing and tuning. For those that have been living under a rock for the past few months the N20 is a 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo and motors replaces the N52 motor used in the 328i, among other cars.

We only have around 200 miles on the car but so far first impressions are very positive. Compared to the previous 328i N52 motor the N20 is much more responsive and has excellent low end torque characteristics. In addition it has much more power to redline. It also delivers better fuel economy. In short, it really blows the N52 away in all categories. Below is an N52 vs. N20 dyno comparison.

With regard to tuning BMW definitely left some room for improvement with the N20. Unfortunately, they changed around the DME so none of the CAN stuff we've developed for the N54 and N55 motors is compatible. It's back to square one there.

But doing the tuning on a JB3 platform using an OBDII logger for advance and throttle, and the dyno for AFR and output, we were able to make some nice tuning improvements. I still think there is another easy 10hp in there with more work. But very pleased at the results so far. On the road the tuning feels much more responsive and almost as fast as an OEM 335i now.

We'll continue working on the software end and expect to have an N20 Stage1 BETA system ready in the near future.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1333415682

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1333415682

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1333415682

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1333690421

Verts4Ever 04-06-2012 01:28 PM

Thanks for the update, Terry.

The 0-60 runs of 5.1 sec with the tune are impressive. I imagine we'll be seeing easy sub-5 (4.7, 4.8?) runs once the tune is optimized and with bolt ons.

LegendsNeverDie 04-06-2012 01:44 PM

Very impressive numbers! :thumbup: The N52 numbers seem a bit low (your last dyno test resulted in 199 hp and 185 trq with 89 octane http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=384728). Other Dynojets show the N20 at 222 hp and 245 trq (at the wheels) definitely underrated.

chris328 04-06-2012 01:46 PM

doesnt the n52 have 230hp/200 ft-lbs? why does the image show max power 179 and torque 173

thekurgan 04-06-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris328 (Post 6754521)
doesnt the n52 have 230hp/200 ft-lbs? why does the image show max power 179 and torque 173

Measured at the rear wheel with transmission loss???

chris328 04-06-2012 01:53 PM

im looking at this right now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E90#Engines and it looks like they might have used what you would find in a 2001-2005 325i


325i US, CA 20012005 2.5 L I6 192 PS (141 kW; 189 bhp) 251 Nm (185 lbft)

Terry @ BMS 04-06-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verts4Ever (Post 6754477)
Thanks for the update, Terry.

The 0-60 runs of 5.1 sec with the tune are impressive. I imagine we'll be seeing easy sub-5 (4.7, 4.8?) runs once the tune is optimized and with bolt ons.

It's hard to say. As of right now I see another easy 10hp in it with some more coding, which I'm working on. To get beyond that we'll probably have to add additional mods, and break in to the CAN system. But we'll worry about that all for a future N20 Stage2 tuning. The idea with Stage1 is quick to install, good gains, no customer headaches. :)

RE: The dyno the N52 tested is one of our shop cars, a 2006 E92 328i. Generally, BMW ratings are nonsense, and power output is measured at the real wheels on a Dynojet or similar. So throw those BMW ratings out the window in my opinion. That run was the best of a few dynos we did with the car. With PBX N52 tuning, it did around 10hp higher, but I included the OEM tuning dyno run for an apples to apples comparison of the N20 OEM tuning run. The differences between the two platforms is simply amazing. Behind the wheel of both you feel immediate and stark differences favoring the 2012 model. Very excited to see BMW take this step for their 328s. :)

LegendsNeverDie 04-06-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS (Post 6754543)
It's hard to say. As of right now I see another easy 10hp in it with some more coding, which I'm working on. To get beyond that we'll probably have to add additional mods, and break in to the CAN system. But we'll worry about that all for a future N20 Stage2 tuning. The idea with Stage1 is quick to install, good gains, no customer headaches. :)

RE: The dyno the N52 tested is one of our shop cars, a 2006 E92 328i. Generally, BMW ratings are nonsense, and power output is measured at the real wheels on a Dynojet or similar. So throw those BMW ratings out the window in my opinion. That run was the best of a few dynos we did with the car. With PBX N52 tuning, it did around 10hp higher, but I included the OEM tuning dyno run for an apples to apples comparison of the N20 OEM tuning run. The differences between the two platforms is simply amazing. Behind the wheel of both you feel immediate and stark differences favoring the 2012 model. Very excited to see BMW take this step for their 328s. :)

Hmmm seems real low for the N52 generally they are around 200 at the wheels. What octane did you guys use for the N20? The N20 would probably put down 240 hp with high octane gas. I am loving that trq curve on the N20 as well :thumbup:

Terry @ BMS 04-06-2012 02:27 PM

Here is another N52 dyno from a customer car before/after PBX install. Testing was done on 91 octane.

http://burgertuning.com/images/BMS_B...Box_Dyno_2.jpg

Saintor 04-06-2012 04:09 PM

I see that on your site, you have exhausts. You should make them first on the N20. It needs a much better sound than a few HP here and there.

Terry @ BMS 04-06-2012 04:47 PM

We may offer something at some point. We always start with tuning though as it gives you 90% of the gains with 10% of the headaches compared to other more extensive and less warranty friendly modifications like exhausts, downpipes, intercoolers, etc.

Terry @ BMS 04-07-2012 10:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Was able to add that extra 10hp I've had my eye on. And it really paid off in the 0-60 department! :)

ProfessorCook 04-07-2012 10:31 AM

Whoa. 0-60 in under 5.0 with a 328?! That's fast.

galahad05 04-07-2012 10:38 AM

Hmm...I have to admit the thought never occurred to me--tuned 328.

I wonder how far up the power ladder the N20 can go?

Terry @ BMS 04-07-2012 11:07 AM

I'll have to do some 1/4 mile times to see where it falls right now with tuning only. I'm hoping mid 13s. Which would make a tuned 328i almost identical in performance to an unmodified 335i. With small motors like this there is a lot of potential with serious work, but we're just going after the low hanging easy to pick fruit right now.

thekurgan 04-07-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorCook (Post 6756016)
Whoa. 0-60 in under 5.0 with a 328?! That's fast.

Too bad people say it doesn't sound good at idle ... damn, I bet nobody buys it :rofl:

Orient330iNYC 04-07-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galahad05 (Post 6756027)
Hmm...I have to admit the thought never occurred to me--tuned 328.

I wonder how far up the power ladder the N20 can go?

well, bmw did make a turbocharged 1.5L i4 that made 1300 hp :D

the M12. i believe it ran 80psi of boost and ran on mostly toluene

dtc100 04-07-2012 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC (Post 6756617)
well, bmw did make a turbocharged 1.5L i4 that made 1300 hp :D

the M12. i believe it ran 80psi of boost and ran on mostly toluene

What was the average longevity of such engines?

thekurgan 04-07-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 6756896)
What was the average longevity of such engines?

Hours

LegendsNeverDie 04-08-2012 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekurgan (Post 6757005)
Hours

This made me LOL! What is the turbo size and PSI boost on the N20? I think a "chip" will sell like hot cakes.

CALWATERBOY 04-08-2012 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintor (Post 6754779)
I see that on your site, you have exhausts. You should make them first on the N20. It needs a much better sound than a few HP here and there.

Tell ya, Saint....JB3 was the cure for N54 flatulence.

Chip alone might make N20's note melodious.

ProfessorCook 04-08-2012 09:45 AM

I worry some about pushing the N20 that much, though.

thekurgan 04-08-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfessorCook (Post 6757674)
I worry some about pushing the N20 that much, though.

Definitely not for the 1st or 2nd year "beta" vehicles from BMW :) I'm sure there will be a lot of aftermarket downpipes, intercoolers, blow off valves, catch cans, blah blah blah with which folks can empty their wallets though.

westwest888 04-08-2012 12:37 PM

Terry - I hope you'll be supplying some serious cooling upgrades with a stage 2 tune. It's so important if you want the increased peak power to last beyond 6 pulls or a few laps on the track. On my Audi they put a bigger radiator for the intercooler, and they separated the cooling loop for the supercharger and added a second coolant reservoir for that.

Terry @ BMS 04-08-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekurgan (Post 6757808)
Definitely not for the 1st or 2nd year "beta" vehicles from BMW :) I'm sure there will be a lot of aftermarket downpipes, intercoolers, blow off valves, catch cans, blah blah blah with which folks can empty their wallets though.

If the N54s are any indication it seems the 2007 (first year) models held up pretty well, with the only major problems being fuel pumps, injectors, and wastegate rattles that continued for several model years. And to a lesser degree continue on today with 335is/1M N54 production! :)


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