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-   -   Diesel Refueling, Please help. (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614721)

m3the01 04-15-2012 03:21 PM

Diesel Refueling, Please help.
 
Hey everyone,

Could you please help me out with this,

Having a hardtime with the new diesel, are we really expected to use the adapter funnel every time we refill?

Our stations have both pumps, large and small. I tried the small and it still wouldnt insert, i thought the adapter was only for the larger truck pumps. I tried another station that also has the smaller diesel pump and the same thing, will not insert.

I tried a few pumps in oregon and washington state but no luck.

What is the deal?

Appreciate the help,

EYE4SPEED 04-15-2012 04:24 PM

I don't think the small nozzle sticks in quite as far, but should still be able to be left alone while fueling. I carry the adapter for emergencies, but would probably throw it out after use.

The small nozzles fit. The large truck nozzles not even close.

Penguin 04-15-2012 04:41 PM

There are three nozzle sizes actively in use Today:

(1) Small nozzle for Unleaded gasoline (13/16" I think)
(2) Medium nozzle for Diesel fuel (15/16" I think)
(3) Large nozzle for high-speed filling of large diesel tanks, e.g., Semis (1 1/4" I think, but I'm not sure on this size)

BMW diesels in the U.S. have a mechanism such that only nozzle 2 will go into the opening.

Unfortunately, I have found that some fuel stations do not follow the established protocol and use nozzle 1 for both unleaded gasoline and diesel fuel.

It appears you have the bad luck of living in an area where the stations are somewhat irresponsible and are using the incorrect nozzles on the diesel fuel pumps. I suspect their logic is that the small nozzle will always fit into a bigger hole, so they simply use the unleaded gasoline nozzle on their Diesel pumps. I believe this is either due to their laziness (one less nozzle size to inventory and deal with), or perhaps is due to some older diesel vehicles that may not use the larger diameter "diesel" fuel tank filler (I seem to see this mostly in agricultural/rural areas when I travel). This does a disservice to the owners of gasoline-fueled vehicles, as it facilitates them making a mistake and putting diesel into their gasoline-fueled vehicle. And they obviously did not count on the cleverness of BMW engineers, who came-up with a mechanism which prevents a too-small nozzle from being inserted into diesel-powered BMW vehicles.

I have noticed that this seems to not be station brand correlated, but more geographically correlated -- I suspect it is the fault of whatever local company services and repairs the fuel pumps for the stations in any given area.

You can explain the issue to the station owner, pointing-out that as more diesel-powered vehicles have misfueling interlocks he will lose business (which might work, but I wouldn't count on it), or keep searching for a station that has the correct nozzles installed.

Unfortunately, while I believe there is a federal law which requires unleaded fuel to have nozzle 1 installed (an emissions-related hang-over from the switch to unleaded, to ensure people did not put leaded-fuel into cat converter vehicles), I do not believe there is any legal requirement to have the proper nozzles installed on diesel pumps -- it is just an accepted convention in the industry, not a legal requirement. But laws vary by state, and perhaps a complaint to the State would result in the station correcting use of the wrong nozzle for diesel.

Hope that helps clarify the situation.

P.S. Sometimes the tip of the correct-sized diesel nozzle is bent in places, such that the interlock will not let the correct-sized nozzle in, and twisting it a little bit while inserting it gets the interlock to open-up.

dunderhi 04-15-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin (Post 6772964)
P.S. Sometimes the tip of the correct-sized diesel nozzle is bent in places, such that the interlock will not let the correct-sized nozzle in, and twisting it a little bit while inserting it gets the interlock to open-up.

My very first fill-up I thought I needed the adapter since the nozzle didn't fit. Unfortunately it was operator error. Once I figured out that some nozzles need to bit of wiggling, I haven't needed to use the adapter.

Flyingman 04-15-2012 05:50 PM

I had to use the adaptor a couple of times early on. It's a pain.

As posted above there are 3 sizes of nozzles out there. Here in the urban areas I haven't had any issues finding the correct size nozzles.

Haven't had a burp in a long time either.

Practice makes perfect.

wanderlust 04-15-2012 05:50 PM

we have an adapter? no way, I have just been wiggiling when I get the thin pumps until the little latch releases and allows it to go in. About 1/2 the stations where I am have thin gas like pumps. Where is said adapter?....

EDIT: Ha! found it in my trunk, pretty neat, someone should make a metal one.
EDIT 2: found a picture of the system.
http://i42.tinypic.com/53qs9g.jpg

m3the01 04-15-2012 07:04 PM

The nozzles do seem to be a little bigger, do i need to wiggle it? Anything special? I see two little notches where the adapter hits and then it is open and good.

Problem is the notches are 180 degrees apart, so if i push one down with pump the other notch is out and it wont go in.

Maybe cause this is a 2012?

Flyingman 04-15-2012 07:41 PM

Square peg, round hole!:rofl:

You really just need to look for stations that have the correct size nozzles for diesel cars.

Truck stops will have the very large size where the adaptor would be required.

If the nozzle is too small, they really messed up.

Many stations will have the larger truck nozzle on one side of the pump and the car size (correct size) on the other side. Look around and ask.

It is amazing with as many diesels that are on the road now days that we still find the incorrect sized nozzles installed.

I haven't run into any issues in the past 2 years or so, but haven't really ventured out of my neck of the woods either.

Snipe656 04-16-2012 08:45 AM

I just stick the nozzle in as far as it will go and that is not more than an inch or two. It looks wrong, looks like it will be a problem but so long as the pump is pumping at proper speeds it never leads to a fuel spill. I have tried wiggling it a couple times but not had the success others speak of but also not been concerned because it pumps fine even when it looks like the nozzle is hanging out of the car.

If anyone ever finds out if the restrictor can be removed or a fill neck can be ordered without it then I'd greatly appreciate hearing about that. I find it to be extremely more annoying than helpful.

BTW to the OP if you were getting truck nozzles you will definitely notice it because they are a lot bigger than your typical gas nozzle. In all my years I have only had to use those nozzles twice and both times was at actual truck stops and both times in my current truck.

wanderlust 04-16-2012 09:35 AM

when you wiggle it you have to wiggle fast or does not work. I bet it would also work if you had a removable bit of rubber hose to put around the thin pump to expand it a few mm. probably someone makes hose of that size. in theory you could also have a 3mm shim with a handle that could slip in with the pump nozzil initaly. I may try to make one out of a thin plastic kitchen prong by dremeling off excess.

powered by lemings

Snipe656 04-16-2012 09:43 AM

Personally instead of going to the trouble of making shims or uses hoses, I'd just like the stupid restrictor removed from the fill neck. The thing does me zero good by being there.

jashearer 04-16-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderlust (Post 6774143)
in theory you could also have a 3mm shim with a handle that could slip in with the pump nozzil initaly. I may try to make one out of a thin plastic kitchen prong by dremeling off excess.

powered by lemings

You should do this and post up some pics. I ran into a station that had a gas nozzle on one side of the diesel only pump and the correct nozzle on the other side of the pump yesterday.

Instead of moving the x I just pulled the correct hose around, lucky for me no-one drove up to question my move :)

Its only the second issue I've had at probably 15+ stations I've filled at in Ia/Ill/Mo.

Jay

wanderlust 04-16-2012 09:54 AM

I sounds like a hard place to remove from, it probably could be cut but what if it falls in.

powered by lemings

Snipe656 04-16-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderlust (Post 6774193)
I sounds like a hard place to remove from, it probably could be cut but what if it falls in.

powered by lemings

I do not know, it greatly depends on if it is a part installed in the neck or something integrated into it. The neck itself should be removable from the vehicle. I have often wondered if the non North America cars even have a restrictor in it. I'd pay a decent amount to get a fill neck without the restrictor and put into my car.

jashearer 04-16-2012 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snipe656 (Post 6774200)
I have often wondered if the non North America cars even have a restrictor in it. I'd pay a decent amount to get a fill neck without the restrictor and put into my car.

The 2011 318d I had in Germany last year didn't have a special neck. In fact I remember the nozzles being much smaller in diameter at the places I filled up.

I don't recall it being as big as my truck though, that's the neck I would buy, and then I could throw that fuel puking plastic adapter in the nearest trash can.

Jay

Snipe656 04-16-2012 10:10 AM

Thanks, I need to look into that and see how hard it would be to get one over here. Worst case it will not work out, not like I'd have to install it to find out if the nozzle fits.

wanderlust 04-16-2012 11:22 AM

I can think of a way to disable it but might be difficult. would need to figure out which side the flaps swings and then super glue the opposite side so that the peace doesn't fall in super glue it to a string and then that way the flap would be free swinging in what respect any of input of any type of nozzle, you could pull other side out by string and throw. use a shearing tool so no dust

powered by lemings
edit smart phone does not recognize speech very well.

floydarogers 04-16-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3the01 (Post 6772833)
...I tried a few pumps in oregon and washington state but no luck.

I have had to use my adapter only twice in 45K miles in WA state. Even the CENEX (Grange Supply/truck/farm) stations have the correct nozzles.

F32Fleet 04-16-2012 02:22 PM

Nationwide stations were supposed to move to the 24mm sizing a couple of years ago. Send an email about your station and they will fix it within a week or less. Personally I've never had to use the adapter.

ductman 04-16-2012 03:41 PM

I would only use the adapter in an EXTREME emergency, the pump will not shut off automatically and you are then in for diesel going everywhere but in the tank after it is filled.

Scooner8 04-16-2012 04:12 PM

I had similar problems when I first got my 335d. There definitely are stations that use gasoline nozzles & no wiggling will do. Then there are proper size diesel "small" nozzles that have been "deformed" a bit that need wiggling. I found turning the nozzle 180 degrees often took care of releasing both notches so the nozzle will go in. I think this happens because nozzles are often "flattened" & no longer perfectly round. Try turning 180 degrees :-)

AutoUnion 04-17-2012 08:08 PM

OP, theoretically, you should never be using the adapter because it makes a mess and there are enough "car" pumps out there. In my 2 years of diesel cars and driving all around the Northeast, I've never run into a station where the pump wouldn't fit. BMW does take it one step further by preventing the wrong size from fitting. If it doesn't fit, move on. Don't use the adapter

Snipe656 04-17-2012 08:13 PM

I have a feeling it is fitting for the OP on the small pumps, it just looks very wrong because it is fitting like every single diesel pump I have used with this BMW.

Stussy109 04-18-2012 12:08 AM

I have never used the adapter and have found that when the fuel neck filler doesnt open properly as in when using the wrong nozzle you can still fill up with the fuel nozzle pressed up against the metal blocker in the fuel neck. You just have to pump slowly, the fuel still enters the tank. also make sure your car is unlocked.

Snipe656 04-18-2012 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stussy109 (Post 6778565)
I have never used the adapter and have found that when the fuel neck filler doesnt open properly as in when using the wrong nozzle you can still fill up with the fuel nozzle pressed up against the metal blocker in the fuel neck. You just have to pump slowly, the fuel still enters the tank. also make sure your car is unlocked.

But not as in with a larger "truck nozzle" correct? Those truck nozzles are quite wide, I'd thought no way they'd even begin to make it into these fill necks.


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