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-   -   2004 x5 smoking out exhaust (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635431)

Dkellerqh 07-26-2012 06:19 AM

2004 x5 smoking out exhaust
 
Recently bought x5 with 85000 miles. It's a beautiful vehicle and looks great. I noticed it smokes some and dealer told me he put Rislone engine treatment in it and it would smoke for awhile. Changed oil still smokes. Any ideas

petriej 07-26-2012 11:35 AM

I've never heard of that treatment before, so I can't really comment on that. What color is the smoke? If it's white, then you might have a blown head gasket.

tchavera 07-26-2012 11:50 AM

With the engine running try and take off the oil cap. Is there any suction trying to keep the cap or does it come right off? Give update

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Dkellerqh 07-26-2012 02:57 PM

2004 x5 smoking
 
Will try the oil cap thing and let you know. The smoke is a bluish white color. I drove 1000 miles and had to add a quart of oil. Seemed like a bad thing to me. The engine sounds good and has alot of power. I don't hear any knocks or anything. The engine check button says all is okay but I'm concerned.

petriej 07-26-2012 02:59 PM

Check your coolant, it will probably have oil in it.

killaz05 08-01-2012 07:35 AM

It is your CVV (Crankcase Vent Valve) I thought the same thing with the blown head gasket but I towed it to the dealer and that's what it turned out to be. Then I looked around forums for CVV and found it to be a common issue with there vehicles. Hope this helps!

Dkellerqh 08-01-2012 11:44 AM

Thanks for input. Sad news though. It was at the dealer to have this checked and it was wrecked while on a test drive! So no more x5 for me.

petriej 08-01-2012 11:48 AM

The dealer wrecked your X5? I hope they made things right for you. Perhaps a newer X5 diesel?

tchavera 08-01-2012 12:42 PM

Ouch!! Post updates

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killaz05 08-01-2012 01:02 PM

Sounds like a new X5 to me. Especially if it is a dealer.

Franksauto 08-01-2012 08:19 PM

That may be a blessing in disguise if its a 4.8l! If it is a 4.8is it could be the valve stem seals and more. This seems to be a common problem and a very expensive fix. I have heard stories of $5000 with no gaurentee it will fix the problem. The valve guides wear and seals will not do it. in this case new heads are incolved costing upwards of $10K!
Now the 4.8 is a totally different animal than the 4.4's and the 3.0's. They usually have some type of CCV/crank case vent issue. Could be the CCV valves, plugged CCV hoses, plugged ports in the valve covers or many other simple fix issues.
I'm going through this right now in my 4.8is hoping for an inexpensive cure. Just joined this forun tonight trying to see what info is out there.

Westlotorn 04-07-2013 02:53 PM

X5 BMW Oil burning: I see many posts blaming Valve Stem Seals. I will suggest to you to check your PCV system. Crank Case Ventilation.

There are two hoses coming from your valve covers to the intake manifold. Pull these hoses one at a time. If there is oil in the hose and you can see oil in the manifold you have found your problem. Your PVC system has a leak allowing the intake to pull air and oil from under the valve covers into the intake manifold which feeds all 8 cylinders with fuel and air.
This has nothing at all to do with Valve stem seals. It us usually a leaking valve cover gasket, not leaking oil out but leaking Air in. If it is pulling air in it will pull oil into the manifold.
The crankcase ventilation on the valve cover can be rebuilt at the same time.
I think many will find this is the source of the BMW oil burning issue.

Note: People who do replace valve stem seals will often fix this same oil burning problem by putting in new gaskets and seals when they replace the valve stem seals.
Most likely they only needed the gaskets and seals/Orings and not the valve stem seals.
To rule out valve stem seals, pull your spark plugs and mark them as to what cylinder they come out of. Read the plugs, if one or two have carbon build up from burning oil you do have a valve stem seal issue. IF all 8 are normal you have a PVC issue. Positive Crankcase ventilation.
In the last month we fixed my son's 4.4L X5. 2005 model year. We did the pass side first because the pass side vent hose was showing lots of oil and shining a light into the manifold where the hose hooked up showed oil in there. The intake manifold should not have any oil in it!!! This pass side fix eliminated 80% of his smoke. He drove it 2 mos more and we just did the Drivers side. Now his smoking tail pipes and oil use are eliminated at 145,000 miles and No Valve Stem Seals were touched. All 8 of his spark plugs looked good when pulled before this work was started, none were oil soaked so I insisted he did not have a Valve Stem seal issue even though many posts he read told him his valve stem seals were shot. If you do not know how to read a spark plug go to NGK,Champion or Bosch websites and look at pictures to see how to read a spark plug.
I hope this helps and saves you money. Valve stem seals are not a common problem but they are getting blamed for a lot of oil use.

Westlotorn 04-16-2014 06:47 PM

Just a follow up a full year later. My son was home for the weekend. We did repair leaking Transmission hoses this trip but the 2005 4.4L V8 is purring better now than at any time he has owned it.
Zero Oil use, Zero Smoke from exhaust. Original and never replaced Valve stem seals are still working fine.
He drives in the City a lot and does some trips into the Lake Tahoe Area and his MPG is at nearly 20 Average, no reset in 5,000 miles. My 4.8L X5 is not that efficient. In town 13-14 with my wife driving, flat highway at best is 19 MPG at 70-75.

crwarren11 08-01-2014 01:18 PM

'06 X5 Smoking Issue, E53 4.4i, 95k mi
 
Westlotorn, I would like to try your fix before heading down the path of valve stem seals. I have replaced both CCV diaphragms and cleaned out the hoses. There was significant amounts of oil and buildup in the hoses for sure, and I see the pool of oil in the intake, especially the lower hose connection from the left bank. I think I have read all of the various forums on this issue, but I have not seen a decent write-up or DIY on your fix. Do you have a link to what you feel is the best one(s) or have you posted a DIY that I have not found? I appreciate your help.

BTW, my issue is smoking after long idle (10-15min). I didn't even know it was an issue until I failed the bar snap test at a recent smog check. I never sit and idle for that long so I never see any smoke. The car seems to run perfect otherwise, just won't pass smog!

crwarren11 08-01-2014 01:40 PM

Here are a couple of videos of the smoke. The first is after about 12min of idling, the second is immediately following the first. I assume this is what people consider to be blue smoke? It smells like burned oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM6rpRuMlr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHsBCKRQ_gg

jcsport1 08-03-2014 02:51 AM

Had mine done 2 weeks ago, ccv diagphrams then blew due to extra pressure so done at same time. All good now, runs like a dream.

crwarren11 08-05-2014 04:03 PM

I am trying to find a shopping list for this project if anyone has one or has seen one posted, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

tolgatt 10-08-2014 10:55 AM

any updates on this ? It looks like I started having the same exact issue as crwarren11
replaced both ccv valves yesterday , didnt get a chance to test if it still smokes after long idle. but I have a feeling it still will.

crwarren11 10-08-2014 11:06 AM

Here's the update: I have thrown a lot of darts trying to do "easy" fixes to address the problem, but nothing has worked. I installed a dual catch can setup to try to contain the oil getting into the intake from the crankcases, but that did not work. Every time I tried something I would give it a couple of weeks to see if the "fix" worked, and nothing has. I have a vacuum leak somewhere. I can hear it whistle in the engine bay, especially on deceleration after revving up the engine. So, I finally got a shopping list together to replace all of the seals in the upper areas - valve cover gaskets, vanos o-rings, intake manifold gaskets, things like that. I can post the list if you want. The parts are here, but I have not had time to get on this project yet as it will probably take me a couple of weeks to complete. I did some vacuum testing at the CCV's and the intake, but no one could really tell me if what I was finding was indicative of any particular problem, so I just decided to go ahead and do the bigger job like Westolorn suggested. I have read many success stories of guys using the catch cans. For $50 and a couple hours of work I thought it was worth a try, but it did not work for me. Hopefully once I get into the job I will see where exactly the real problem is...there's nothing worse than doing all the work and not finding that smoking gun. There are several good threads on this issue in some related forums if you want to check them out. You will also see many of my posts there!

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...placement.html

http://5series.net/forums/e60-parts-...p-pics-133703/

tolgatt 10-08-2014 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crwarren11 (Post 8634662)
Here's the update: I have thrown a lot of darts trying to do "easy" fixes to address the problem, but nothing has worked. I installed a dual catch can setup to try to contain the oil getting into the intake from the crankcases, but that did not work. Every time I tried something I would give it a couple of weeks to see if the "fix" worked, and nothing has. I have a vacuum leak somewhere. I can hear it whistle in the engine bay, especially on deceleration after revving up the engine. So, I finally got a shopping list together to replace all of the seals in the upper areas - valve cover gaskets, vanos o-rings, intake manifold gaskets, things like that. I can post the list if you want. The parts are here, but I have not had time to get on this project yet as it will probably take me a couple of weeks to complete. I did some vacuum testing at the CCV's and the intake, but no one could really tell me if what I was finding was indicative of any particular problem, so I just decided to go ahead and do the bigger job like Westolorn suggested. I have read many success stories of guys using the catch cans. For $50 and a couple hours of work I thought it was worth a try, but it did not work for me. Hopefully once I get into the job I will see where exactly the real problem is...there's nothing worse than doing all the work and not finding that smoking gun. There are several good threads on this issue in some related forums if you want to check them out. You will also see many of my posts there!

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...placement.html

http://5series.net/forums/e60-parts-...p-pics-133703/


Thank you so much for the quick update , good luck with the project , I will check the links out and see if anything else applies to my situation

Nightmaren2 10-22-2014 10:51 AM

mine does that occasionally only when i top up the engine oil or when the battery is momentarily disconnected so after start up it sometimes smokes a bit until when i drive it for like 5-10 minutes then everything gets back to normal

XXXEsq 11-02-2014 11:15 AM

My E53 4.8is has only 62K on it. Started smoking a few weeks ago. Still runs like a scalded dog, but there is a very distinct unusual smell to the exhaust. It doesn't smoke all the time, but if it idles for a while and then i gun it, there is a puff of smoke. I checked the CCVs and they are both fine, so... its probably the valve seals. Dealers want stupid money to fix it. My local wrench (who's been servicing her since my CPO ran out a few years ago) says there are only really 2 intelligent options. Seals only (about 2500) which will likely cure the problem, but with no guarantee. Or, to be sure, pull the heads, change all the gaskets, and have the valves, seals and guides done while the heads are off for around 5000. I'm going to make a call on what to do in a few days.
But what really angers me is that I've spoken to 2 dealers and several other BMW wrenches I trust. All have said these motors have known valve seal issues. So I called BMW to ask WTF! This thing was over 70K in 2006. And a major engine component fails at 60K miles? Why was this not addressed under the original warranty; or under the CPO warranty. Their response was to "document" my concerns which translates to putting a note on the vehicle record that it has an unrepaired engine problem. I really like this vehicle. I've had it for 7 years, which is longer than any car I've ever owned. But I'm very annoyed by BMWs handling of this known problem.

crwarren11 11-03-2014 09:36 AM

Sounds like the exact same issues I am having. Don't bother going to smog this year, you won't pass! I know it's a long drive for you, but I would recommend calling All German Auto in Escondido. They can do the valve stem seals without removing the head (check youtube for DIY video). I've heard the entire job including valve cover seals and all other gaskets, etc. including valve stem seals is around $2500. I haven't personally gone down this path yet, but I am considering ordering their tools to do the valve stem seals myself which is around $700. If you get a quote from them for all the work will you please post it so we all know what this is running now?

As far as BMW corporate goes, this is just another issue in the long line of them that they won't claim any responsibility for. The "known issue" has been resolved by redesigning the valve stem seals to eliminate the flaw. If you are past warranty then it's about a $8k dealer job. Their argument is that this is a rubber component that will fail after time in any car from any manufacturer, but as an engineer I say that it is a poor design that is the root of this problem; therefore, they should take responsibility for it. It's clearly a design flaw. The valve stems seals in my E46 with nearly 200k miles have never failed!


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