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-   -   Brake dust revisited (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63945)

Nick T. 06-20-2004 12:54 AM

Brake dust revisited
 
Brake dust and its removal/prevention seems to be an ongoing problem for many detailers. Replacing your OEM brake pads with low-dust after market pads will reduce the dust problem, but so far as I know there are no pads that will eliminate brake dust. This still leaves us with the problem of dealing the dust.

There are many special wheel cleaner products on the market, each with its own hype and its loyal band of followers. I don’t endorse nor recommend any of the special wheel cleaner products because I don’t think that they are needed and I haven’t used them for a long, long time.

I use a secret wheel treatment that allows me to clean off the brake dust usually using nothing more than a cotton towel and a spritz of distilled water - - only occasionally do I need to add a little car shampoo to the water - - and heavier pressure than lightly wiping is never needed.

A year or two ago all of the wildly differing suggestions/recommendations on this and other detailing forums led me to do some comparative experimenting. I started by doing a thorough cleaning and polishing of all four wheels, then applied one recommended product to the left side wheels and another product to the right side wheels. After driving for awhile I would then compare the dust accumulation on each side and the ease (or difficulty) of removal. Another thorough cleaning, the winning product on the opposite side and a new product on the other side.

It didn’t take long to realize that all of the carnauba waxes attracted a lot of dust and were difficult to clean without using a special cleaning product and/or a lot of scrubbing. Closer examination and a little experimenting showed that with even fairly light braking the wheels heated enough to soften even the best carnauba. The heat softened wax retains a great deal more dust than an unwaxed area! Quite a bit of the retained brake dust is trapped under the surface of the wax and cannot be removed without removing the wax.

Progressing on to the synthetic protectants showed a marked improvement - - much less dust retention and much easier cleaning. The “combination” synthetics such as Blackfire and Platinum UPP did not do as well as the “pure” synthetics such as Klasse and Zaino. Zaino attracted/retained slightly less dust than Klasse, but IMO Klasse was the product of choice because of its ease of application.

Recently I decided that it was time to compare my winners to some of the new (to me) products. As expected the carnaubas were poor perfomers, and the combination synthetics such as NXT and Wolfgang did not come up to the level of the pure synthetics. Menzerna was as good or maybe slightly better that Klasse for dust retention, and was easier to clean that either Klasse or Zaino.

I think that I will continue to use Klasse on my wheels and not switch to Menzerna because if you’re not very careful when applying Menzerna it’s easy to leave too much product on the wheels - - and this can lead to pink stains that are very difficult to remove.

http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/MINI/Kosei_Wheel-2-sm.jpg

KP 06-20-2004 05:27 AM

Hmmm, Klasse was going to be my next experiment after Zaino. Thanks for the post :thumbup:

RKT BMR 06-20-2004 09:15 AM

:mad:

While this will come as a surprise to many of you who know what an OCD detailing fanatic I am, I waxed my wheels yesterday for the first time ever, after an intensive cleaning, in the expectation that it would make them more resistant to brakedust.

I put Griots Best of Show (carnauba) on them. GRRRRRRRRRR! :mad:

Nick T. 06-20-2004 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKT BMR
:mad:

While this will come as a surprise to many of you who know what an OCD detailing fanatic I am, I waxed my wheels yesterday for the first time ever, after an intensive cleaning, in the expectation that it would make them more resistant to brakedust.

I put Griots Best of Show (carnauba) on them. GRRRRRRRRRR! :mad:

Don't despair - a good coating of carnauba on your wheels is probably better than leaving them unprotected - - but then again, it may be worse than leaving them unprotected.

As many of you know, brake dust will eventually eat its way into the clear-coat, chrome, or aluminum if left on your wheels for an extended period of time. If you wash your unprotected wheels on a regular basis the dust will most likely not have an opportunity to do any damage. If you have a good coating of carnauba on your wheels the wax may hold some of the brake dust trapped against the surface of the wheel, and if the wax isn't removed during washing, then the trapped brake dust may be in contact with the wheel surface long enough to start etching its way into the finish.

rruiter 06-20-2004 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick T.
Brake dust and its removal/prevention seems to be an ongoing problem for many detailers. Replacing your OEM brake pads with low-dust after market pads will reduce the dust problem, but so far as I know there are no pads that will eliminate brake dust. This still leaves us with the problem of dealing the dust.

There are many special wheel cleaner products on the market, each with its own hype and its loyal band of followers. I don?t endorse nor recommend any of the special wheel cleaner products because I don?t think that they are needed and I haven?t used them for a long, long time.

I use a secret wheel treatment that allows me to clean off the brake dust usually using nothing more than a cotton towel and a spritz of distilled water - - only occasionally do I need to add a little car shampoo to the water - - and heavier pressure than lightly wiping is never needed.

A year or two ago all of the wildly differing suggestions/recommendations on this and other detailing forums led me to do some comparative experimenting. I started by doing a thorough cleaning and polishing of all four wheels, then applied one recommended product to the left side wheels and another product to the right side wheels. After driving for awhile I would then compare the dust accumulation on each side and the ease (or difficulty) of removal. Another thorough cleaning, the winning product on the opposite side and a new product on the other side.

It didn?t take long to realize that all of the carnauba waxes attracted a lot of dust and were difficult to clean without using a special cleaning product and/or a lot of scrubbing. Closer examination and a little experimenting showed that with even fairly light braking the wheels heated enough to soften even the best carnauba. The heat softened wax retains a great deal more dust than an unwaxed area! Quite a bit of the retained brake dust is trapped under the surface of the wax and cannot be removed without removing the wax.

Progressing on to the synthetic protectants showed a marked improvement - - much less dust retention and much easier cleaning. The ?combination? synthetics such as Blackfire and Platinum UPP did not do as well as the ?pure? synthetics such as Klasse and Zaino. Zaino attracted/retained slightly less dust than Klasse, but IMO Klasse was the product of choice because of its ease of application.

Recently I decided that it was time to compare my winners to some of the new (to me) products. As expected the carnaubas were poor perfomers, and the combination synthetics such as NXT and Wolfgang did not come up to the level of the pure synthetics. Menzerna was as good or maybe slightly better that Klasse for dust retention, and was easier to clean that either Klasse or Zaino.

I think that I will continue to use Klasse on my wheels and not switch to Menzerna because if you?re not very careful when applying Menzerna it?s easy to leave too much product on the wheels - - and this can lead to pink stains that are very difficult to remove.

http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/MINI/Kosei_Wheel-2-sm.jpg

I doubt dust can get get UNDER the wax unless you don't wax it out.
Other than that I think it's a good compare.
I think if you clean the wheels on a regular basis, and are not sloppy with it, you won't have a problem. Wheels get ugly when you take it to a carwash and only part of the wheel get cleaned.
just keeping up with the wheels keeps them nice, and it's easy. putting some wax on extends that even more. You STILL have to clean them.

fuz 06-20-2004 02:21 PM

The thing I like about AIO is that it has cleaners too, so it has a mild polishing action to get rid of some contaminates. With pure waxes, you need to seperately polish wheels to get the same effect. I tend not to use sealant glaze since I seem to get clouding/haze with it easily...

If the hot pink color of menzerna fmj is actually making stains, I may stay away from it until they change the color to something sensible.

Nick T. 06-20-2004 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rruiter
I doubt dust can get get UNDER the wax unless you don't wax it out. Other than that I think it's a good compare.

rruiter - - -
Carnauba on your wheels or your paint is NOT like a protective layer of impermeable plastic. Brake dust will NOT get UNDER the wax. When the wheels get heated from the braking energy the wax softens to the point of becoming almost a liquid. Any dust that contacts the wax will be trapped and disbursed throughout the wax. Since the dust particles are generally larger in diameter than the thickness of the wax layer, a large percentage of the dust particles will be held in contact with the wheel’s surface.

Nick T. 06-20-2004 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuz
If the hot pink color of menzerna fmj is actually making stains, I may stay away from it until they change the color to something sensible.

On the “normal” painted surfaces on a car I don’t think that the “staining” of the FMJ is a problem. You have better access and a better view than on the wheels. I put a couple of coats of FMJ on my xB with no problems and am quite happy with it.

I no longer have my white Suburban (The Miata Masher), but it would be interesting to see if continued use of FMJ on white paint would start to give a pinkish cast to the paint.

mjames 06-20-2004 09:11 PM

I have a bunch of Zaino products, what is the best one to use on my wheels to add a layer of protection? Also, what is the best way to apply the product?

Or should I just use something like Meguiar's Hot Rims?

cantona7 07-01-2004 09:57 AM

Which Klasse product are you guys referring to? Is this the regular "All in One" or is there some specific Klasse wheel cleaning/protecting stuff?

318-Bmw 07-01-2004 06:25 PM

Where can i purchase Klasse SG the cheapest?

KP 07-01-2004 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantona7
Which Klasse product are you guys referring to? Is this the regular "All in One" or is there some specific Klasse wheel cleaning/protecting stuff?

Yeah that's the one.

Artslinger 07-02-2004 07:14 AM

After I started using the Klasse AIO on the wheels I've noticed that the brake dust comes off much easier.

Nick T. 07-02-2004 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjames
I have a bunch of Zaino products, what is the best one to use on my wheels to add a layer of protection? Also, what is the best way to apply the product?

Or should I just use something like Meguiar's Hot Rims?

Either Z-2 or Z-5 is okay. I’d recommend using three layers. If you use Z-1, then you’ll need to wait a full day between layers - but if you use ZFX you can do two layers one day and another the next day. Apply and remove just as you do on your paint.

CAETravlr 07-07-2004 02:14 PM

Ok, this is going to sound ignorant, but I was wondering if Windex will do any damage to my wheels? On my last vehicle, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, I had pure chrome wheels, and since Windex worked so well on Chrome in the kitchen, I tried it on the wheels, and it took the brake dust right off and left them with a MAJOR shine. No scrubbing at all. I used it yesterday on the wheels on my Beemer, and it took the dust right off, just as easily. I was just wondering if there was something in it that might eventually cause some sort of deterioration on my wheels if I continue to do this. It is certainly the easiest way so far to get it off.

rruiter 07-07-2004 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAETravlr
Ok, this is going to sound ignorant, but I was wondering if Windex will do any damage to my wheels? On my last vehicle, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, I had pure chrome wheels, and since Windex worked so well on Chrome in the kitchen, I tried it on the wheels, and it took the brake dust right off and left them with a MAJOR shine. No scrubbing at all. I used it yesterday on the wheels on my Beemer, and it took the dust right off, just as easily. I was just wondering if there was something in it that might eventually cause some sort of deterioration on my wheels if I continue to do this. It is certainly the easiest way so far to get it off.

It probably removes any form of protection (wax) for the wheels also.

318-Bmw 07-08-2004 05:22 PM

Where can I find Klasse SG for the cheapest price??
:dunno:

jetstream23 07-21-2004 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artslinger
After I started using the Klasse AIO on the wheels I've noticed that the brake dust comes off much easier.

So it sounds like Klasse All-In-One is the way to go on the wheels. Can you guys give your tips and tricks on applying it to wheels? How many coats do you use? Do you use similar applicator pads, terry cloth or MF towels, etc? Also, what QD spray do you use and how often? Details, details....:D

Much thanks. Great thread!

CWolfey 07-23-2004 01:05 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I usually use the griots for the wheels, but I ordered the SG today curious to see the difference. I dont think that I will ever have a problem with stained wheels or baked on brake dust since I have the easiest BMW wheels to clean and I take them off the car every month to clean them inside and out.
Gave it 1 more griots shine today before I trying the new stuff and took some pics also.

dwm 08-07-2004 09:28 PM

This year I started using RejeX on my wheels. Pros: sheds brake dust easily (slow running water), easy to apply and buff, lasts a good while, respectable shine for stock roadstars. Cons: 12 hour cure time on first application, 8 hours between coats.

I also use it on things that get pelted with bugs: headlight lenses, mirrors and front bumper cover. I don't use it on sheet metal body panels (old habits die hard, I'm still using carnauba).

grigia42 08-16-2004 11:11 AM

Klasse
 
Where can I buy Klasse products. Auto supply does not carry it any ideas?

Jesh66 10-09-2004 02:39 PM

Getting yellow oil stains off the alloy rims
 
Well living in South Florida and dealing with 4 hurricanes within 6 weeks hasn't prompted me to wash my garage kept 530i. So today i decided to give it a cleaning. When i cleaned the rims i noticed that after washing away the break dust there was a yellowish stain/residue that i can't seem to remove from the spots where the break dust had sat for the last month. The rims had gotten wet over the course of the hurricane month but i didn't think the dust could have done such lasting damage.

Anyone know of a fix besides having to buy new ones? :-)

thanks

Jeff

Spy021 02-10-2005 10:16 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but I've heard several people say Klasse All-in-one and several say Klasse SG. I thought these were (2) separate products. Should both be used when treating the wheels (i.e. AIO follwed by SG) or is only one specific product used?

jetstream23 02-22-2005 12:51 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spy021
Pardon my ignorance, but I've heard several people say Klasse All-in-one and several say Klasse SG. I thought these were (2) separate products. Should both be used when treating the wheels (i.e. AIO follwed by SG) or is only one specific product used?

I only used AIO. Not sure if there is an upside or downside to using the SG as well. I did a detailed cleaning on the wheels and then patiently did a single AIO application to each wheel. I have noticed that cleaning the wheels since the AIO application has been very easy and never requires more than some light wheel brushing.

The biggest challenge is that the M135 wheels have some intricate spokes. I have followed someone else's advice and use one of those foam paint brushes ($0.49 at Home Depot) for cleaning between the spokes. :thumbup:



http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...chmentid=45156

wheelguy 03-01-2005 11:56 AM

Something else to evaluate
 
Nick,
great job on the post. In 1997, I bought a 1995 840 added the M-style dual spoke wheels and ended up with a bad brake dust problem. I went to ceramic pads and lost some performance along with the dust and went back to soft pads because stopping is important sometimes. I then worked with a chemist to develop WheelWax (acutally a polymer, not a wax) and have been marketing it for 3 years now to fellow BMW drivers. I would be glad to send you a jar for your evaluation and you can find more information at www.wheelwax.com where you will also find my phone number for questions.

You are right about waxes melting and making matters worse. The polymers bond to the wheels, last longer and help protect the wheel surface. We combined three elements in our formula. A cleaner to remove old brake dust that is baked onto the wheel, amino functional silicones to seal the painted surface and an anti static element to help repel the dust. The rule of thumb these days is don't use anything to clean your wheels that you wouldn't use on your fenders. They are both covered with clear coats and can be damaged by acidic formulas. There is nothing in WheelWax that can harm paint or wheels. You can use it in the sun, leave it on for days and it comes off just as easily.

Send me an e-mail or call me and I will send you a jar for your evaluation. Hope this helps.

All the best,


Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick T.
Brake dust and its removal/prevention seems to be an ongoing problem for many detailers. Replacing your OEM brake pads with low-dust after market pads will reduce the dust problem, but so far as I know there are no pads that will eliminate brake dust. This still leaves us with the problem of dealing the dust.

There are many special wheel cleaner products on the market, each with its own hype and its loyal band of followers. I don’t endorse nor recommend any of the special wheel cleaner products because I don’t think that they are needed and I haven’t used them for a long, long time.

I use a secret wheel treatment that allows me to clean off the brake dust usually using nothing more than a cotton towel and a spritz of distilled water - - only occasionally do I need to add a little car shampoo to the water - - and heavier pressure than lightly wiping is never needed.

A year or two ago all of the wildly differing suggestions/recommendations on this and other detailing forums led me to do some comparative experimenting. I started by doing a thorough cleaning and polishing of all four wheels, then applied one recommended product to the left side wheels and another product to the right side wheels. After driving for awhile I would then compare the dust accumulation on each side and the ease (or difficulty) of removal. Another thorough cleaning, the winning product on the opposite side and a new product on the other side.

It didn’t take long to realize that all of the carnauba waxes attracted a lot of dust and were difficult to clean without using a special cleaning product and/or a lot of scrubbing. Closer examination and a little experimenting showed that with even fairly light braking the wheels heated enough to soften even the best carnauba. The heat softened wax retains a great deal more dust than an unwaxed area! Quite a bit of the retained brake dust is trapped under the surface of the wax and cannot be removed without removing the wax.

Progressing on to the synthetic protectants showed a marked improvement - - much less dust retention and much easier cleaning. The “combination” synthetics such as Blackfire and Platinum UPP did not do as well as the “pure” synthetics such as Klasse and Zaino. Zaino attracted/retained slightly less dust than Klasse, but IMO Klasse was the product of choice because of its ease of application.

Recently I decided that it was time to compare my winners to some of the new (to me) products. As expected the carnaubas were poor perfomers, and the combination synthetics such as NXT and Wolfgang did not come up to the level of the pure synthetics. Menzerna was as good or maybe slightly better that Klasse for dust retention, and was easier to clean that either Klasse or Zaino.

I think that I will continue to use Klasse on my wheels and not switch to Menzerna because if you’re not very careful when applying Menzerna it’s easy to leave too much product on the wheels - - and this can lead to pink stains that are very difficult to remove.

http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/MINI/Kosei_Wheel-2-sm.jpg



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