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-   -   Implications of the new iPhone 5 and the new lightening dock (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645426)

apw2607 09-12-2012 08:42 PM

Implications of the new iPhone 5 and the new lightening dock
 
I think the new iPhone 5 Lightening dock connector is going to have some significant impact on interfacing to BMWs. Both older MULF and Combox iphone interface cars.

Just a bit history. Originally the iPhone/USB functionality was provided by MULF2. This was used for both CCC and CIC vehicles. Then BMW introduced a new interface with artwork ... single cable connection, etc .. and that introduced "combox"

In any case, obviously it will have a impact on owners that are using the current cradles regardless of years. You won't be able to plug your new iPhone 5 in the cradle with the adapter apple is providing for backwards compatibility.

But beyond that for cars that use the MULF, a Y cable was used to interface the car to the iphone: I would expect this to no longer work, since lightening is a digital only interface ... and BMW used the analog audio outputs from the 30 pin connector. So that isn't going to work. It might control the iPhone, but you're not going to get any analog audio out of the iphone that the BMW can use. I guess you could use a 3.5mm cable from the iPhone headphone out to the BMW Aux jack .. and keep the y-cable for control. A possible workaround.

Combox cars would be ok, since it only uses the iPhone's digital interface .... however there is one exception. Plugin. That actually uses the analog audio out from the 30 pin ... but since that actually required the cradle (unless you did a 3rd party non cradle version) .. its a moot point.

In any case ... definitely will cause a headache for non-combox cars !!! Progress I guess.

** EDIT **

Apple have confirmed that the adapter does support analog audio out, so this should no longer be a issue

AutoUnion 09-12-2012 09:04 PM

Maybe the adapter Apple is making, takes care of these issues?

NoI4plz 09-12-2012 09:44 PM

I think BMW frankly doesn't have to worry with the current e70, as its EOL so frankly they would just make an oem adapter available. With the Next gen, they've probably put that in development to accommodate, and most LCIs will take care of the rest of the F-based cars.

Btw would not purchase an iPhone till the next iteration, since it's lacking compared some of the features of the S3.

In regards to the adapter, I'm guessing since most docks used the 30 pin to stream audio out, and the new adapter is suppose to Help accommodate the new dock to the old accessories, the current combox should be fine with the 5. However I'm guessing pretty soon, the per 5 devices are gonna be dropped from the next gen BMW combox, as their current no adapter to take the 30 pin to the new dock.

apw2607 09-12-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7070673)
Maybe the adapter Apple is making, takes care of these issues?

Digital to analog converter inside the adapter ... Possibly.

BryanCO 09-12-2012 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7070738)
Btw would not purchase an iPhone till the next iteration, since it's lacking compared some of the features of the S3.

that's funny - I certainy didn't buy our BMWs based on their features compared to a competing model...

NoI4plz 09-13-2012 09:12 PM

Just got confirmation, the 5 has no way of interfacing with current BMW tech that uses analog iPod out or video. Would require extensive reworking of the app, and interfaces. Bluetooth anyone?



Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanCO (Post 7070795)
that's funny - I certainy didn't buy our BMWs based on their features compared to a competing model...

What ideology do you use to purchase a BMW or any car or material possession? Interested to hear

BryanCO 09-13-2012 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7073072)
Just got confirmation, the 5 has no way of interfacing with current BMW tech that uses analog iPod out or video. Would require extensive reworking of the app, and interfaces. Bluetooth anyone?





What ideology do you use to purchase a BMW or any car or material possession? Interested to hear

I also don't generally buy tech in a car partially for the reason of this original thread - the technology changes and intend to keep our vehicles a fairly long time.

Ideology? You used the term "features". Is cost a feature? Reliability? Ownership experience? Etc...

I'm not intereted in an S3 as it doesn't have the features which I value.

BryanCO 09-13-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanCO (Post 7073159)
I also don't generally buy tech in a car partially for the reason of this original thread - the technology changes and intend to keep our vehicles a fairly long time.

Ideology? You used the term "features". Is cost a feature? Reliability? Ownership experience? Etc...

I'm not intereted in an S3 as it doesn't have the features which I value.

I suppose it also seems a bit presumptuous to recommend one product over another before one has even been released. Would you recommend - for or against - a vehicle before it was even available for testing or test drives? Doing so certainly seems to lack objectivity...

shaunatl 09-13-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7073072)
Just got confirmation, the 5 has no way of interfacing with current BMW tech that uses analog iPod out or video. Would require extensive reworking of the app, and interfaces. Bluetooth anyone?

Can you provide a link to this confirmation? According to this, analog audio output *should* work fine using the Lightning > 30 pin adapter: http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/13/light...-ipod-out-doe/

That should cover pre-Combox models that used the Y-cable.

GoHawks63 09-13-2012 11:31 PM

Newbie question, what is combox?

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaunatl (Post 7073256)
Can you provide a link to this confirmation? According to this, analog audio output *should* work fine using the Lightning > 30 pin adapter: http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/13/light...-ipod-out-doe/

That should cover pre-Combox models that used the Y-cable.

That should cover the y cable, but combox users are kinda of .... For the moment....hopefully?

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoHawks63 (Post 7073301)
Newbie question, what is combox?

Combox is a interface/smart module which pretty much handles all ur phone to idrive connection, BMW apps, and whole lot other features.

GoHawks63 09-14-2012 06:25 AM

Is that the optional box that goes in the console that you snap in your phone?

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanCO (Post 7073159)
I also don't generally buy tech in a car partially for the reason of this original thread - the technology changes and intend to keep our vehicles a fairly long time.

Ideology? You used the term "features". Is cost a feature? Reliability? Ownership experience? Etc...

I'm not intereted in an S3 as it doesn't have the features which I value.

That's interesting, and I respect that. I think when I make decision to purchase a vehicle or any material object, I use the ideology that anything that I buy has a feature, may it be driving experience, cost, reliability, tech, and etc. Which ever I go with, has to have a certain feature set I prefer over the other, thus being suited to my needs and tastes. Similarly, in my opinion on the iPhone 5, I felt the advertised feature set, doesn't suit my needs as it repackages some of what previous IOS devices had or brings into to play many compatibility issues compared to previous iOS devices. If they included some wireless transfer options such as NFC (probs on 5s), simultaneous voice and data, then maybe I would be onboard.

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoHawks63 (Post 7073496)
Is that the optional box that goes in the console that you snap in your phone?

The combox is physically located I believe underneath the front passenger seat. Not sure though. The phone cradle is what your referring to, that would be the primary interface between combox and phone

Edit: it's right rear trunk area

GoHawks63 09-14-2012 06:34 AM

Thank you for your responses. I just purchased a CPO 2011 and was wondering if ours has the combox?

BryanCO 09-14-2012 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7073499)
That's interesting, and I respect that. I think when I make decision to purchase a vehicle or any material object, I use the ideology that anything that I buy has a feature, may it be driving experience, cost, reliability, tech, and etc. Which ever I go with, has to have a certain feature set I prefer over the other, thus being suited to my needs and tastes. Similarly, in my opinion on the iPhone 5, I felt the advertised feature set, doesn't suit my needs as it repackages some of what previous IOS devices had or brings into to play many compatibility issues compared to previous iOS devices. If they included some wireless transfer options such as NFC (probs on 5s), simultaneous voice and data, then maybe I would be onboard.

So, you are using 'features' more broadly than I am. That explains the disconnect.

However, it still seems silly to form a decisive position without even using/experiencing the product. Keep in mind that I am not objective regarding the iPhone 5 as I have other Apple products and, for multiple reasons, choose to stay in that product line.

apw2607 09-14-2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7073501)
The combox is physically located I believe underneath the front passenger seat. Not sure though. The phone cradle is what your referring to, that would be the primary interface between combox and phone

Combox is located in the right rear trunk area.

apw2607 09-14-2012 10:04 AM

Apple have now clarified :

The Lightning to 30-pin adapter supports analog audio output, USB audio, as well as syncing and charging, but does not support video output.

Therefore it will work fine with current and older BMW ipod interfaces (both MULF and Combox).

Since video output is not supported, this adapter will not work with Ipod Out. Therefore for all the folks that retrofitted Combox with iPod out, and didn't go for the cradle (there was a clever way of doing this through 3rd party vendors) ... you're be out of luck (for now at least).

For cradle users ... don't worry, a new cradle will be on the way for the Iphone 5. Expect it in Summer 2013 ... knowing how BMW are. Quite frankly, BMW need to just drop the whole notion of cradle. It provides so little value, its not worth the effort.

apw2607 09-14-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7073501)
The combox is physically located I believe underneath the front passenger seat. Not sure though. The phone cradle is what your referring to, that would be the primary interface between combox and phone

It depends on what you define as primary interface. The primary interface is really the USB connector, since combox can work with many flash drives, music players, and handsets for music playback.

Combox control unit is the electronics and software that allows iDrive to work with external sources for music (and video). It supports three wired inputs. One via the USB interface, one via the cradle, and then the regular aux jack. On other vehicles it can support additional USB interfaces that may be located in the rear of the car.

It also supports all the bluetooth functionality ... including telephone BT and audio BT streaming. It handles the cataloging of music files, album art, etc. Newer versions support the BMW apps platform and BMW live and BMW internet.

Additionally, Combox can be purchased with telematics, for BMW assist services too.

gresch 09-14-2012 11:06 AM

The isheeple make idiots of themselves once again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rdIWKytq_q4

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gresch (Post 7074061)
The isheeple make idiots of themselves once again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rdIWKytq_q4

Love the first guy, he's like my iPhone 4s is totally different. I wonder whether he actually owns one or most just like the label and go for it?

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apw2607 (Post 7073950)
It depends on what you define as primary interface. The primary interface is really the USB connector, since combox can work with many flash drives, music players, and handsets for music playback.

Combox control unit is the electronics and software that allows iDrive to work with external sources for music (and video). It supports three wired inputs. One via the USB interface, one via the cradle, and then the regular aux jack. On other vehicles it can support additional USB interfaces that may be located in the rear of the car.

It also supports all the bluetooth functionality ... including telephone BT and audio BT streaming. It handles the cataloging of music files, album art, etc. Newer versions support the BMW apps platform and BMW live and BMW internet.

Additionally, Combox can be purchased with telematics, for BMW assist services too.

Thanks for the clarification on the location, though I remember someone sayin early comboxes were under the front passengers seat ehh.

I'm confused one aspect. If analog audio is supported, but not video or iPod out, how will the apps platform work on the car?

NoI4plz 09-14-2012 04:08 PM

I think BMW should try a modular architecture to the infotainment system. We have the performance products from BMW, they should also pioneer a tech products line.

What do I mean?

1) Make the navigation system a modular platform.
Individual pieces of the system are simple to install and get working. I would love to not have to regret not ticking the navigation option, and have it
installed later from BMW.

2) Remove the CRADLE and the BMW approved cabling
Its better to invest in some altered NFC based system. No cables no hassle. Backup and power would offer a USB jack, that can handle a smartphones
Integration.

3) Optimize APPs

apw2607 09-16-2012 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoI4plz (Post 7074428)
Thanks for the clarification on the location, though I remember someone sayin early comboxes were under the front passengers seat ehh.

I'm confused one aspect. If analog audio is supported, but not video or iPod out, how will the apps platform work on the car?

The apps platform does not use video out (or ipod out) on the iPhone. What I mean by this is, the apps window on idrive for say pandora or mog is not being generated or created by the iPhone itself. More the app on the iPhone passes certain information to idrive through Bmws SDK. BMW recently opened this up so APP developers can now add the necessary hooks into their app so the app will interface with idrive, providing BMW approve.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/10/bm...d-apps-coming/


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