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-   -   ground clearance (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647172)

zerobama 09-21-2012 01:04 AM

ground clearance
 
IT seems X1 is not smaller than X3, but with a lot lower ground clearance.
It is also a lot cheaper than x3.

So does lower ground clearance make the car a lot cheaper to make? Why they don't make it higher and looks more like a real SUV?

I want to buy an X1 but my friend told me it is a wagon, I am confused.

mabrahams 09-21-2012 03:13 PM

Your friend is right; the X1 is not a SUV/SAV. It's a hatch-wagon.

The chassi is the E91 3-Series wagon.

However, in the US it will sell more if it's called a SUV/SAV.

the_fox 09-21-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerobama (Post 7087374)
Why they don't make it higher and looks more like a real SUV?

If you're looking for a "real SUV" then you should not look at the X1, and probably not the X3 either...

This car is a 3-series hatchback, that's all.

bimmerized 09-21-2012 05:16 PM

BMW didn't want to give it more ground clearance in favor or better dynamic handling which many of us can appreciate. Have you driven an SUV and could you tell it's much different than a sedan? If not, you should definitely stick to an SUV if you want such a thing. There are drawbacks to an SUV and BMW is simply closing that gap with the X1.

TheCritic 09-21-2012 06:32 PM

The X1 is also missing a lot of features, standard but also available, compared to a new X3 (not so much my generation). No rear seat vents, no power tailgate option are the two that disappoint me the most. But I bet a fair amount of other stuff is missing too.

Still, it does seem to be a pretty good deal for a brand new BMW. You can push an X3's price up quite high with options.

zerobama 09-21-2012 10:39 PM

I still have this question:

Is lower clearance/higher clearance by itself change the cost of making a car, or not? Not only BMW but in other brands, it seems cars with lower clearance are sold at lower prices than a similarly equipped car with higher clearance. I want to understand why.

wcinvest 09-22-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerobama (Post 7089225)
I still have this question:

Is lower clearance/higher clearance by itself change the cost of making a car, or not? Not only BMW but in other brands, it seems cars with lower clearance are sold at lower prices than a similarly equipped car with higher clearance. I want to understand why.

I'm not sure they really are. The X1 is priced pretty aggressively for a BMW. Given its capacity, its actually priced cheaper then a 1 series. And the Infiniti G37 sedan and EX35 SUV are priced fairly close to each other as well.

Perhaps in the typical case, you are right, however. I wouldn't think a higher clearance in itself would add that much to the manufacturing of the vehicle. Often times, the cost is somewhat tied to the economies of scale and how many the car companies plan to manufacturer. So a vehicle with higher clearance that doesn't sell nearly as well as a low clearance vehicle will probably be more expensive.

HotRodW 09-22-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerobama (Post 7089225)
Is lower clearance/higher clearance by itself change the cost of making a car, or not? Not only BMW but in other brands, it seems cars with lower clearance are sold at lower prices than a similarly equipped car with higher clearance. I want to understand why.

It's not that manufacturers have to charge more for a lifted version, but rather that they can charge more. Crossovers and SUV's have a greater perceived value than wagons and hatches. It's no coincidence that other manufacturers have followed the Subaru Outback formula for greater profits. The new allroad costs about $3k more than the Avant wagon on which it's based. The traditional wagon is nearly dead in the US, and it's no secret why that is.

investor27 09-25-2012 07:36 AM

When I was at a parking lot with a black X3, at first glance I thought the X1 is about the same size. But after parking next to the X3, the X1 is quite a bit smaller. It was a big difference, so I agree with all others here that the X1 is a stationwagon/hatchback. My X1 has about 6 inches MORE ground clearance than my 535i xDrive. I needed more ground clearance for my wife, so the X1 is just perfect for us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotRodW (Post 7089732)
It's not that manufacturers have to charge more for a lifted version, but rather that they can charge more. Crossovers and SUV's have a greater perceived value than wagons and hatches. It's no coincidence that other manufacturers have followed the Subaru Outback formula for greater profits. The new allroad costs about $3k more than the Avant wagon on which it's based. The traditional wagon is nearly dead in the US, and it's no secret why that is.


kosmo 09-25-2012 08:26 AM

What is the actual ground clearance on the X1?

I always find myself stuck in the middle. The 128 w/sport package was too low in some cases for my uses, but the older X3 was ridiculously high (but about perfect after lowering 1.25 inches).

Andrew*Debbie 09-26-2012 05:16 AM

Anyone know the fording depth? On our old e83 X3 it was about 2 feet.

We are thinking about replacing our Z4 with an X1 or X3.


It is telling that BMW didn't put the ground clearance or fording depth in the brochure.

Andrew*Debbie 09-26-2012 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerobama (Post 7089225)
I still have this question:

Is lower clearance/higher clearance by itself change the cost of making a car, or not?

Not significantly, if it all. A higher clearance can reduce fuel economy, which could trigger gas guzzler penalties and a higher retail price.


Designing a high clearance car that handles well can add costs. For example on our old e83 X3 the front drive shaft went through the oil pan.

Andrew*Debbie 12-05-2012 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie (Post 7097097)
Anyone know the fording depth? On our old e83 X3 it was about 2 feet.

Found it. Maximum depth is 300mm (about 12") if you drive very slowly.

e83 X3 is 500mm or 20".

jph1 12-05-2012 06:13 PM

I'm coming from a Forester XT with larger tires to the X1. I mostly went down dirt roads--not off road--and found that I wasn't even close to using up the ground clearance. I'm hoping the x1 will get me down those same roads with no problems. I already know I'll have more fun getting to those roads : )

GerWil 12-06-2012 11:41 AM

The X1 has 193mm (7.6") ground clearance - according to below site (carwale). FYI the Honda CRV has 6.7" and Toyota Rav4 7.5"

http://www.carwale.com/research/bmw-...ions-2026.html

HBWT 12-06-2012 01:31 PM

Not really a wagon...or a HB...somewhere in between, IMO.
Closest by comparison to the 3-series Touring.

328iT or (SprtWagon)
weight 3594
wheelbase 108.7
width 71.5
length 178.6
height 55.8
Gr.clearance 5.6

X1
weight 3527
wheelbase 106.7
width 70.8
length 176.5
height 60.8
Gr.clearance 7.6

Most dimensions fairly close until you get to the overall height and ground clearance. So if one wants to insist that's it's a "wagon"...then it's a tall wagon. Conversely, if one wants to call it an "SAV", then it's a rather short SAV.
Either way, I'm really liking mine. I will hit 100 miles today!
FWIW, all things being equal, it should cost a minimal amount to manufacture a car with higher ground clearance. Different springs and dampers and maybe a few other drivetrain and steering components. Differerent, however, doesn't always equate to more $$$.

greyX1 12-06-2012 01:57 PM

one telling thing about the ground clearance: on our street are a couple of big speed bumps, and i constantly hear people scraping the fairing on their cars when they go over them too fast. the X1 can easily cruise over them with no problem at a normal speed without fear of bottoming out.

faustas 12-06-2012 04:26 PM

I had some reservations at first of the X1 for fear that it will look like a wagon than an SUV.
Then this morning I drove by one. It definitely looks more like an SUV (albeit a /shorter one) than a wagon.
Wagons typically look "polite" and stretched out. The X1 looked pretty buff.

When I priced out the MSRPs for X3's and the X1's, the X3 end up being around 4k more expensive than the X1.
Some argue X3 has nicer interior, the back seat vents, etc. The car also weighs more. But I don't see how that all equates to the 4k premium in cost of production.
So some of it is marketing, some of it is BMW testing the X1 market in the USA.

You should test drive the difference between X1 and X3. You should notice a difference in handling. Go look at the X1, then, say, an Audi A4 wagon/all road to see the difference for yourself (don't let others make you believe it is one way or the other :D)

nospam 12-06-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faustas (Post 7235094)
You should test drive the difference between X1 and X3. You should notice a difference in handling.

Bingo, the difference is substantial. The X1 drives more like a car while the X3 is more like a SUV in comparison.

Eric Genname 12-07-2012 02:50 PM

Off road capability
 
Isn't it necessary to look at other factors, such as wheel travel and the type of suspension, to assess a vehicle's off-road capability? My '96 RAV4 only has the same clearance as the X1, but I've driven it all through the slickrock backcountry of Utah without problems. Could I really expect to do that in an X1 (even assuming I would want to)?

nospam 12-07-2012 03:30 PM

This video compare shows the X1 offroad in comparison to the Range Rover Evoque:
http://youtu.be/01fiI9Wogho

Eric Genname 12-07-2012 03:55 PM

Yes, I've seen that video, and the bit with the driver piling rocks under the tire seems fake to me.

There's also this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5GbL2NF9Mk

Although here you wonder how much you really care about a vehicle's ability to maneuver through deep mud (assuming you're not driving in Vermont in the spring, that is).

I think the realistic test is handling dirt roads that have potholes, ruts and/or washboards, the kind of obstacles that deter, or slow, drivers in sedans and wagons. Increased ground clearance certainly helps to keep from bottoming out, but you'd also like to know you can hit a pothole without damaging the vehicle.

Andrew*Debbie 12-09-2012 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Genname (Post 7236701)
Isn't it necessary to look at other factors, such as wheel travel and the type of suspension, to assess a vehicle's off-road capability?

Yes. Depending on where you are driving, the X1's 12" Fording depth could be what stops you. That alone makes the X1 a "most-roads" car.


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